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?Japanese submarine slammed two topedoes into our side, Chief. Was coming back from the Island of Tinian Leyte. Just delivered the bomb, the Hiroshima bomb.

?Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in twelve minutes. Didn't see the first shark for about a half an hour. Tiger. Thirteen footer. You know how you know that when your in the water, Chief? You can tell by lookin' from the dorsal to the tail. What we didn't know, was that our bomb mission had been so secret, no distress signal had been sent. They didn't even list us overdue for a week. Very first light Chief, sharks come cruisin' so we formed ourselves into tight groups. Kinda' like old squares in a battle. Like you see on a calender like the Battle of Waterloo, and the idea was, shark comes to the nearest man that man, he starts poundin' and hollerin'and screamin', sometime' the shark go away....sometimes he wouldn't go away. Sometimes that shark he looks right into ya ..right into your eyes....thing about a shark, he's got lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn't seem to be livin'. Until he bites you. Then those black eyes roll over white. And then...well you hear that terrible high pitch screamin'. The ocean turns red, despite all the poundin and hollerin' ....and all come in and rip you to pieces. You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hunded men. I don't know how many sharks, maybe a thousand. I don't know how many men, they averged six an hour. On Thursday morning Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robertson from Cleveland. Baseball player, boatswain's mate. I thought he was asleep. Reached over to wake him up. Bobbed up and down in the water like a kinda' top. Upended. Well he'd been bitten in half below the waist. Noon the fifth day, Mister Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us, he swung in low and saw us. A young pilot, a lot younger than Mister Hooper here...anyway he saw us and he come in low, and three hours later a big fat PBY comes down and starts to pick us up. You know, that was the time when I was most frightened, waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a life jacket again. So, eleven hundred men went into the water...three hundred sixteen men come out. The sharks took the rest, June 29,1945.? --Quint, from the movie "Jaws". Scene written by Robert Shaw.

Yep, things could always be worse.

Lineups

Dave Borkowski (3-2, 3.29) and the O?s are up against Josh Towers (7-4, 4.62) and the Jays at SkyDome this afternoon. Towers has won 5 of his last 6 starts.
Game 117: Things Could Always Be Worse | 118 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Named For Hank - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#41753) #
I think maybe I'll watch that movie tonight.

Nomar, you're still invited.
_Ron - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#41754) #
Call me crazy but the Jays are due for a win so I put some dollars on the line. Of course since it's the Jays I bet a very small amount.

I'm predicting the Jays will score more than 2 runs today!
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#41755) #
And finally Gibbons comes to his senses and realizes that Chris Woodward doesn't have any potential. Long live Chris Gomez!
_Magpie - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#41756) #
Robert Shaw, besides being a wonderful actor, could write. Anyone ever see his play (it got turned into a movie, I think), "The Man in the Glass Booth."
_Loveshack - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#41757) #
Great movie. Quint is one of my all time favorite movie characters.

Fare well and ado to you fair spanish ladies.....
Named For Hank - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#41758) #
I've never read anything he's written, but he's so frighteningly believable as anyone he wanted to be.

Well, I'm off to a wedding shower, so I'll be missing this game. Someone chant GOING GOING ZAUN for me.
_Keith Talent - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#41759) #
Looks like a nice crowd today.

I thought of betting on baseball today as well. I was gonna bet on the Yankees to win, they were underdogs against Jamie Moyer. And boy would that have been a sound bet, they homered twice in the first inning.

How do you bet? Is it a lotto thing? Is a one-run game in baseball considered a tie?
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#41760) #
And so it begins.

RBI single by Bigbie makes it 1-0 Orioles after the Jays fail to score their leadoff man in the bottom half of the 1st.
_Keith Talent - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#41761) #
F-Cat with a couple "f-bombs" for Butterfield and then the "mf-bomb" all the way to the bottom of the wall. Nobody out.
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#41762) #
What the hell......

Zaun gets plunked, but has to keep batting and pops out???
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#41763) #
Oh God

If the Jays leave this inning without scoring a run, my television might not exist anymore.
_Loveshack - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#41764) #
Go Gross.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#41765) #
EWWWW GROSS!!

RBI Double for Gabe puts the Jays in good shape with 2nd and 3rd and less than 2 outs with a run already in.

Borkowski doesn't look sharp today, I'm wondering how long he lasts.
_Loveshack - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#41766) #
RIOS HIT GRAND SLAM NOW! - GIBBONS
_Loveshack - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#41767) #
Oh well. Still, that should have been another run for the Jays if Zaun being hit by pitch hadnt been mysteriously over-ruled by the ump.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#41768) #
Oh come on, that's just terrible.

Borkowski better thank Rios for going first pitch swinging there, because Rios just let Borkowski off the hook.

Does this happen as regularly around the league as it does to the Jays?
_Ron - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#41769) #
How do you bet? Is it a lotto thing? Is a one-run game in baseball considered a tie?

Yeah I play Sports Action (I think you guys have Sports Select. For oddset 2 runs is considered a win, 1 run is a tie game.

I have a point spread ticket. If the Jays, Indians, and Marlin win by a run or more I win on my ticket.

WEB GEM for Gross!!!
_Keith Talent - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#41770) #
Well, I was just about to get righteous about Hinske. But his stone hands didn't burn us just there. So if we sign Glaus do we trade Hinske? That could be a likely scenario. JP was saying he'd look at guys who are arbitration eligible for other teams and getting a bit expensive for them. What's Hinske being paid each year? I guess we might have to eat some of that salary if there's to be a taker.
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#41771) #
Does anyone know what happened to Greg Myers, I know he hurt his ankle a while back but was it really neccisary to put him into the witness protection program? I haven't heard a bloody word by him or about his condintion since the injury all those months ago.When he tripped rounding third in Minnesota, did he roll into the corn stalk from Field of Dreams? Where the hell is this guy?
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#41772) #
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_sortable_team_stats.jsp?baseballScope=mlb&statType=1&sitSplit=s123&timeSubFrame=2004&groupByTeam=true&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1
Does this happen as regularly around the league as it does to the Jays?

Believe it or not, (I didn't until I saw it,) the Jays are ranked ninth in the majors in batting averafe with the bases loaded.

COMN
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#41773) #
YEAH!! WE HAVE MORE RUNS THAT THE OTHER TEAM!!!

WOOOOO!!! I forgot what that felt like!
_Keith Talent - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#41774) #
I think Greg Myers is finished.

Nice stroke by Carlos. He was so close to getting a key 2-run homer last night as well.
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#41775) #
Jobu, I remember hearing about Myers about 3 weeks ago. They were saying he was making no progress, and it seemed likely he would retire.
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#41776) #
Yeah, nice double from Carlos. With the roof closed it's probably a homer.
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#41777) #
So he's just "not healing"? Well that sucks...
_Magpie - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#41778) #
And Roberts and Tejada turned a terrific DP. I thought it was a 2 run single - then a 1 run fielder's choice...

Roberts has now saved his team at least three runs, after his stop in Hinske in the 3rd.

Orlando Who?
_Keith Talent - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#41779) #
So he's just "not healing"? Well that sucks...

Just remember his age. Myers is probably close to being the same age as your dad! He really ripped up his leg and it seems he doesn't have what it takes to go through all that rehab. The rehab is probably not worth it for him. He was probably going to retire anyway at the end of this season.

Griffey's career seems threatened, he might be moved to the AL next year where he can DH or learn 1B. I think the Griffey misfortunes are all bad karma. He was such a difficult jerk when he left Seattle, I don't really feel so sad for him.
_Keith Talent - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#41780) #
Hudson's having a tough day.
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#41781) #
I know its a tiny sample size, but I like what i see from Gibbons that far. Little criticisms aside, I like what a visible pressence he is talking to the pitcher, standing on the dugout steps, arguing calls. I like the passion he shows even if it doesnt seem to be motivating the Jays thus far.
_Loveshack - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#41782) #
What's Hinske being paid each year?

Hinske's contract gives him $500,000 in '03, $800,000 in '04, $3 million in '05, $4.325 in '06 and $5.625 in '07. Plus a $500,000 signing bonus for $14.75 million over 5 yrs.
_Keith Talent - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#41783) #
$14.75 million over 5 yrs.

I bet Hinske's sure glad he signed that contract.
_IainS - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#41784) #
I didn't know Cory Lidle's kids were inventors....
_Cristian - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#41785) #
JP was saying he'd look at guys who are arbitration eligible for other teams and getting a bit expensive for them.

Adam Dunn!

I'm going to continue to beat the Dunn drum until I hear a denial from JP or a longterm contract extension from Carl Lindner.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#41786) #
Goodness Chris Gomez is loads better than Chris Woodward.

Hopefully the Chris Woodward experiment is officially over.
_Keith Talent - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#41787) #
Hopefully the Chris Woodward experiment is officially over.

Chris Woodward has only started 5 games! And he's put some good wood on the ball, it was just hit right at people. This is a day-game after night-game that gives Gibbons a reason to use Gomez (who just got picked off). Woodward was hitting .325 as an everyday player prior to his injury, and we really don't know what his ceiling his. Gomez is Joe Journeyman, that's it.
_Scott - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:36 PM EDT (#41788) #
What about getting Jay Gibbons as a Delgado insurance policy?
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:42 PM EDT (#41789) #
Hey, Joe Journeyman has been a valuable part of the Jays offense this season.

Mr. Untapped Potential is supposed to have pop in that bat, and so far he hasn't shown ANYTHING this season except for a propensity to get injured.

I think Joe Journeyman has earned the right to finish the season as the starting spot, while Mr. Untapped Potential has done nothing to help his cause.

Meanwhile, E______ L_____ continues to struggle for the Yankees. I wonder if Yankee fans still consider this guy an upgrade over Jose Contreras who put the "can't pitch at Fenway" rumors to bed last night.
_Ron - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#41790) #
mlb.com must be wrong, there's no way the Jays are batting .308 with the sacs drunk. I'm in denial over this stat. I feel like the Jays have been dreadful with the bases loaded, imagine what it feels like to be a M's fan then.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#41791) #
.308?!?!

Just switch the 3 and the 0 and that number begins to make sense.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#41792) #
I think Orlando has found his groove at the plate again. That was a rough little stretch he was in to come out of the All Star Break, but his AB's the last few days both from the left and right side have been promising.

Hopefully the Jays can put the O's away.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:52 PM EDT (#41793) #
I really like this move by Gibbons. With the injury, Cat is a significant double play threat. Mighty Mouse on the other hand can get down the line fairly well so let's see how it plays out.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#41794) #
Darn, Frankie M K's.

I still like the move however. The Jays needed and still need all the runs they can get.

Hopefully Eric can bust out with a hit here.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#41795) #
Darn, Frankie M K's.

I still like the move however. The Jays needed and still need all the runs they can get.

Hopefully Eric can bust out with a hit here.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#41796) #
Oops, sorry about the double post.

Hinske comes up big with an RBI single to right. Good approach with 2 strikes on him, hopefully that can get Eric back into the swing of things.
_mathesond - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#41797) #
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/sn/20040810/sp_sn/greeceshouldshowsomebaseballgrace&e=2
COMN for yet another reason to despise Peter Angelos
_RhyZa - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#41798) #
Gross has a bit of the Joe Randa perpetual smile expression going doesn't he? With the way the team has been going, I'm surprised it's still there.
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#41799) #
Yet another streaker, driving this years total to two I believe.

But the sportsnet crew thinks its the first time it happend this year. How soon ye forget Foulds.
_Ron - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#41800) #
I'm not a Towers fan but if you look at his past 6 starts (including his line thus far today) his ERA is a excellent 3.26
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#41801) #
I think Towers is undefeated when streakers cross the field.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:18 PM EDT (#41802) #
Was it this year when the streaker jumped down from the centerfield bleachers and on to the outfield turf?

That was one of the most histerical things I've ever seen.
_RhyZa - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:21 PM EDT (#41803) #
A lot of people aren't high on JT since his peripherals aren't staggering but if he keeps us in the game and gives us a chance to win (even if in say 1 out of 6 starts he gets thumped) then that's all you can really ask for from your 4th or 5th starter right? I wonder just how 'lucky' he has been in this stretch though because I'm sure his naysayers would maintain that he relies a lot more on luck than the average pitcher, but it gets to the point where it's hard to ignore performance, no matter how much the stats say you should (there are exceptions in this game to almost every rule).
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:21 PM EDT (#41804) #
Yes, this was certainly the year Dave. I was there live and got to look into the Jays dugout and see them absolutly cracking up. Especialy Woody and Sparky. Sparky leaning over to Woody and guestimating the "size" of the streaker with his hands with hilarious results. Also Frasor in the bullpen backing up against the wall fearing he'd be touched by the streaker.
Craig B - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:28 PM EDT (#41805) #
if he keeps us in the game and gives us a chance to win (even if in say 1 out of 6 starts he gets thumped) then that's all you can really ask for from your 4th or 5th starter right?

I think it's exactly the sort of thing you want out of your fifth starter. Right on.
_My Names not Ry - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:32 PM EDT (#41806) #
I realize not many on this board are older than Myers, but I am, and I took great offense to that, "like your dad comment" :) I have an 8 year old and a 4 year old, and am 3 years older then Myers, so do we have that many 11 year olds or am i just a late bloomer?
Dave Till - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:33 PM EDT (#41807) #
I can't recall the last time I heard Jerry say "Let's admire this one!"

Woohoo!
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#41808) #
Guh? Is it just me or does the Dome actually look... populated today?
_RhyZa - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#41809) #
I just caught the end of the replay but..

Am I seeing things or was a grown man wrestling with that kid for the ball?
_Ron - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#41810) #
I always thought starting pitching and defence was the main key to success, well the Jays proved me wrong this season.

Look at the ERA's this season of the projected 5 starters for next year.

Doc 4.35
Lilly 3.82
Batista 4.35
Bush 3.59
Towers 4.46

Of course I know Hentgen's, Miller's, and Douglass's starts are ommitted but you get my point.

And the Jays are tied for 2nd in the AL in fielding percentage.
_My Names not Ry - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:38 PM EDT (#41811) #
Ron, an interesting case for us old schoolers...I'll still take good arms and good gloves, but you need some tolerable bats too.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#41812) #
Geez, Buddy Groom is still pitching for the O's.

What, do they thaw this guy out from a secret lab that freezes his body so that he doesn't age ala Austin Powers?
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:44 PM EDT (#41813) #
AGAIN Gomez!!

Hopefully 7-2 will be enough for the Jays bullpen.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#41814) #
Somebody should tell Vernon Wells that it's okay to take a pitch.

That's his 3rd AB today alone where he's swung at the first pitch.

All 3 times he's been out.
_James W - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 06:58 PM EDT (#41815) #
If it's any consolation at all, Wells struck out when he looked at pitches (took the first two for strikes, then waved at a 1-2 pitch in the dirt).
_Magpie - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#41816) #
Yes, ladies and gentlemen. That is TWICE today that Carlos Delgado has gone 1st to 3rd on a single.

Just one of those crazy days...
_Ron - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#41817) #
Well's isn't a guy that draws a lot of walks and he doesn't take a lot of pitches. He's got a couple of years under his belt and his approach hasn't changed. I don't see it changing in the future either because I'm sure Barney has told him to take more pitches.
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:02 PM EDT (#41818) #
Just one of those crazy days...

also evidenced by the fact that there are 35K in the Dome for a game against the O's when the Jays are 20 games below .500. How did that happen?
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:02 PM EDT (#41819) #
Wait, is that Lighterfluid I smell?
_Ron - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:03 PM EDT (#41820) #
Okay even Lightenberg can't choke a run 5 read lead in the 9th ........... croses fingers
_My Names not Ry - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:05 PM EDT (#41821) #
no it isnt a situation where its clutch, kerosene will do his gagne impression
_James W - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:07 PM EDT (#41822) #
It was Kerry's "Collectible Sporthead" Day at the Dome. He was due for a great inning.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#41823) #
Ball game!!

A very nice game played by the Jays at the dome today.

Oh how sweet it would be to take 2/3 from the O's.

Should be a dandy tomorrow afternoon as Bush faces Cabrera.
_Ron - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#41824) #
After getting the 3rd out it looked like Lightenberg was going to cry .. LOL

Because wins are so rare I will savour this one!

One victory down, 2 more to go before I win on my ticket!!!!!!!
_Loveshack - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#41825) #
also evidenced by the fact that there are 35K in the Dome for a game against the O's when the Jays are 20 games below .500. How did that happen?

Ligtenberg bobblehead day? That must be it ;)
_braden - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:09 PM EDT (#41826) #
Is Sportsnet down for anyone else? I've got a black TV screen right now. Been like that for half an inning.
_Paddy - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:09 PM EDT (#41827) #
What a great game. Good pitching and the Jay's bats came alive. The crawl out of the basement begins!
_Jobu - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:21 PM EDT (#41828) #
Braden, my sportsnet has been like that as well since Menechino was on 1st base and carlos on 3rd. Still like that. Never got to see the game end.
_Matthew E - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#41829) #
Godfrey's on with Wilner now.

I have a question that I'm sure someone here must know the answer to.

Who owns the Blue Jays? I know, I know, 'Rogers'. But does Ted Rogers own them personally, or are they owned by Rogers Communications, or how does it work?
_Scott Levy - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#41830) #
Towers is now 16-5 in 147 innings with a 115:23 strike to walk ratio and 4.47 ERA as a member of the Blue Jays.

If you discount his 2002 season (27.1 IP), he has a career 4.48 ERA in 287.1 innings with a 4.44 K/BB, 5.42 K/9, and 24-15 record.

But I'm not saying I'm sold on him or anything.....
_Keith Talent - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#41831) #
Just tuned in to Godfrey now. What have I missed?
_Matthew E - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:43 PM EDT (#41832) #
Just tuned in to Godfrey now. What have I missed?

Not much. About what you'd expect.
_miVulgar - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#41833) #
Who owns the Blue Jays? I know, I know, 'Rogers'. But does Ted Rogers own them personally, or are they owned by Rogers Communications, or how does it work?

I remember reading about potential shareholder unhappiness and the 'drag' the Jays might have on the company in the early days, so I'd have to think Rogers Communications.
_Rupert - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#41834) #
Good game.
Named For Hank - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#41835) #
Of all the games to miss...

Hey, so --

F-Cat with a couple "f-bombs" for Butterfield and then the "mf-bomb" all the way to the bottom of the wall. Nobody out.

What happened?
_Smack - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#41836) #
I think he meant hits, didnt watch the sequence but guessing he fouled 2 off then hit the double.
_manager - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#41837) #
I've never liked the 'pie' stuff. Did Mondesi start that?
_Loveshack - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#41838) #
I remember watching a post-game interview with Wells earlier in the season, and I was really looking forward to what he had to say. I think he might have answered one question, if that, and then someone comes chasing after him with a pie. He runs into the clubhouse to get away, interview over. Definitely disappointing.
_Dan H - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#41839) #
I can see it for hazing a rookie after a big game, but I agree that it gets annoying, especially if it's done too early in the interview. After a player has a big game, I like to hear his thoughts and too often the interview is interupted almost as soon as it starts.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#41840) #
Sorry guys, but me being in NY, I don't get any Canadian channels... only what DirecTV gives me and that's the games.

What happened after the game with the post game interview? Who got pied? I can't think of any "milestones" or anything like that. Gibbons already won his first game, Gross his first hit/homer and what not... what could there possibly be to pie when your 20 games under?
_P Smith - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#41841) #
The pies are another legacy of Raul Mondesi. That's about all you need to know...

I really hadn't thought of it much until Scott brought in up, but yeah, the pies are pretty stupid. And frustrating for those with a job to do. It might be a good way for Gibbons to put his personal mark on the team by banning them.

A long day at the Dome today, but a memorable one, thanks to

- a Jays win
- a home run from Delgado
- a streaker
- the roof closing in the 8th inning
- a very big crowd
- some nice defensive plays around second base, by both sides
Named For Hank - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#41842) #
I don't think that anyone can be thinking about canning J.P. in the middle of the process. They signed on for rebuilding and they knew pain would be involved. To think of firing him before any of his draft picks have a chance to make an impact would be astonishingly shortsighted.
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#41843) #
The pie thing is pretty funny if you have a rookie sitting there who's doing his first interview.
_greenfrog - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#41844) #
Quote from a recent Baseball Prospectus article by Jim Baker on this week's AL matchups:

"Baltimore @ Toronto: You know those little puzzles that have nine spaces and one of them is blank and you have to move the other eight into some kind of order? Does that make any sense? Am I succeeding in evoking the desired image? Probably not. In any case, the American League East reminds me of one of those puzzles this year. The Yankees and Red Sox long ago got into their assigned positions. The Orioles recent hot streak has gotten them above the Devil Rays--as is their station. The one piece that is not falling into place is the Blue Jays. They've got to close seven games on these Orioles in the next seven weeks to make everything right with the universe as we have come to know it these past six years.

While we're throwing blame around, whatever happened to Eric Hinske? His VORP has taken an alarming 59 to 16 to 2 trip down the loo these past couple of years. BP 2004 rightly pointed out that his Isolated Power didn't really suffer from 2002 to 2003, but such is not the case this year. It's only .127, down from .194 last year. After his 2002 showing, we all assumed that by now, a week past his 27th birthday, he'd be one the best third basemen in the game."
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#41845) #
True NFH, but last season's success might actually end up HURTING JP's cause. I'm pretty sure everyone that was involved knew there would be pain in rebuilding but I believe that last year's success might have had people thinking that maybe the pain wouldn't last as long as people thought it would.

While I agree that it wouldn't be fair to can him with only 1 of his picks in the majors right now (Bush), I believe this season has really hurt his cause.

This upcoming offseason is HUGE for JP
_Ron - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 11:41 PM EDT (#41846) #
Anybody like to share Jerry Crasnick's article from ESPN Insider?

Recap perhaps?
_miVulgar - Saturday, August 14 2004 @ 11:44 PM EDT (#41847) #
If there's one thing this season needs, it's levity. While I respect the media's need to do their job, I would MUCH rather be witness to some signs of life and clubhouse camaraderie than another tired cliche about 'turning things around', 'not giving in' and 'playing the spoiler'.

Personally, I think these shenanigans ARE an effective means of promoting a flagging product if viewed in the proper context.

We live in an age of reality TV where consumers have a tough time looking away from a car wreck (for crying out loud, THE OSBORNES?!). I think if the casual fan sees some fun on the screen, maybe they think it'll be more likely they'll experience some fun at the 'park.

As for the guys who might actually be interested in what the player had to say, well, they probably don't need much selling in the first place. I think most people here (myself included) fall into that category.

Besides, can you imagine throwing THAT wet blanket on the players right now? I can't imagine it would go over very well... I hope Boomhauer doesn't lower the boom.
_miVulgar - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 12:05 AM EDT (#41848) #
And another thing. Should JP start looking over his shoulder now that PG is answering baseball questions? That's what I got from Jerry Crasnick's piece on the Jays in Friday's ESPN Insider...

I read that piece. Frankly, the same thought crossed my mind when I came across Godfrey pontificating about Delgado's status and then again tonight when I heard him on the post-game with Wilner.

I'm kind of getting a Peddie-esque vibe from PG. I was pretty disappointed that he didn't come out swinging harder in defense of JP amidst Griffin's/Elliot's idiocy. And it was Beeston who best articulated the frustration of Canadian baseball fans when calling out the Rockies and their stunningly selfish decision regarding Francis and the Olympics.

Lately, I see more politician than I do 'baseball champion' in PG, if that makes any sense (and yes, I'm fully aware of what Godfrey has done for baseball in Canada, so please don't think I'm slagging him). So yes, JP should probably be looking over his shoulder.

Nevertheless, given Ricciardi's developmental approach to building this club, I think you need to evaluate him after 5 full years. Yes, he has free agency (albeit severely constrained), rule 5 and a few other tricks at his disposal, but proliferating the farm with studs is his modus operandi... the kids need 1 or 2 years at the major league level for us to know whether his approach is going to pan out.

I'll lose alot of respect for the club if they pull the plug prematurely.
_P Smith - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 01:27 AM EDT (#41849) #
If there's one thing this season needs, it's levity. While I respect the media's need to do their job, I would MUCH rather be witness to some signs of life and clubhouse camaraderie than another tired cliche about 'turning things around', 'not giving in' and 'playing the spoiler'.

But we're already getting the cliches on a daily basis, along with the post-game nonsense.

At this point, I think fans are just craving a little discipline. We've seen enough of Hinske pounding his bat into the ground when he pops up, or players screaming profanities every time they take a called third strike. I don't think there's a team in the league that has as many short outbursts of anger and frustration as Toronto during each game. Alex Rios has only been with the team a few weeks, and today he slammed his helmet into the ground after missing a sign.

When Miguel Tejada and Brian Roberts turned a spectacular double play today, Tejada ran over and hugged him, and they ran back to the dugout like jackrabbits. That's the kind of levity we want to see - celebration of great performance.

Besides, can you imagine throwing THAT wet blanket on the players right now? I can't imagine it would go over very well...

They might turn into the Arizona Diamondbacks?

Of course, sometimes attempts at enforcing discipline go badly (remember the beer ban in Chicago? Tom Runnels in an army uniform?) But a ban on shaving-cream pies would be so insignificant, that if it did go over badly with the players... well, I think that it would tell you something about the attitude in the clubhouse.
_Keith Talent - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 01:35 AM EDT (#41850) #
About the pies: I think it's tiresome, but I'm sure people who don't watch every game might think it's funny. Usually, when I notice it from other teams, it seems to happen near the end of the interview. But the Jays don't seem to care and do it right when the interview starts, even before one word is uttered (as with Wells' cream-pie of Delgado).

As for JP, I can't see what more that guy could have done last off-season. He did seem to sink to Griffin's level on some interviews, which is an indication of the stress he's facing. His credibility seems to be suffering. Which is the reason, I guess, Godfrey's doing some talking.

If it is a 5-year plan it kind of makes sense: the bullpen could be fine next year, Frasor, Chulk, Frederick, all have experience now - Miller is your closer - and Spiers has turned it around. The rotation is money. So all we need this offseason is some bats: perhaps trading a package of Hinske, Woodward and Reed for a SS who can hit (who? I have no idea), signing Delgado for $7M, signing Troy Glaus to play 3B, getting Cat healthy as 4th OF/DH, signing Sexson to split 1B/DH with Delgado... getting a new hitting coach.
_Ron - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 01:38 AM EDT (#41851) #
Those shaving cream pies can be dangerous. At the redskins camp Arrington thought it would be funny to pie the rookie Sean Taylor and he ended up injuring him with the cream pie. It stung his eyes.
_Keith Talent - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 01:41 AM EDT (#41852) #
I wonder if JP even wants Delgado back. I've heard him say that all it would take is for one other team to show interest for his stock to shoot way up. But how does he know it will even get to that. Don't the Jays have an exclusive negotiating window after the season? Isn't conceivable that Delgado re-signs then? Other teams can't express interest then, that's tampering. It looks like JP is pushing Carlos away and out into the market. I wonder if JP will approach Delgado during the exclusive window and seriously try to get a deal done.
_Keith Talent - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 01:47 AM EDT (#41853) #
About those interviews after the game. I always found it a little unfair for the player that those interviews are done so quickly after the game ends. It's literally: walk-off homer, circle the bases, jump up-and-down with teammates, straight to interview.

The interview has to be a bit of a buzz-kill for the player, if it could just wait 5-10 minutes... but there are network obligations, of course. I'd like to see more interviews from the clubhouse, when they're ready to talk.
_Ron - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 01:50 AM EDT (#41854) #
Listening to JP on the radio on Wednesday I got the impression Delgado is a goner. When asked about team needs he said the most important was finding a 1B and perhaps a DH.

In the past month there has been increased critism of JP and the honeymoon is over. Up until a month ago JP was given a free pass from the majority of media and fans but that's gone.

I like JP from the standpoint that he doesn't duck away from the critism and he's the only GM I know of in MLB that takes phone calls on a weekly basis from the public. But at the same time it's all about results and from that standpoint he has failed. Sure he doesn't lace it up on the field but he's responsible for assembling the club. JP's gotta take some blame for this season.

Next year is put up or shut up time for him. Gross, Rios, and Bush will all have more than a handful of games under their belt. I expect to see Adams on the club. And for the first time he has enough money to really impact the club through FA.
_Jobu - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 01:55 AM EDT (#41855) #
I think some kind of memo in the clubhouse saying management says no pies under 1 minute of interview time would be an appropriate medium between banning pies outright (which seems a little silly) and letting them spout cliches for 5 minutes that everyones heard.
_Keith Talent - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 02:01 AM EDT (#41856) #
Why not call up Russ Adams this season? Give Woodward until September 1, make Adams a September call-up and play him everyday. What difference would 4 more months in the minors make? Though, I guess there's the threat the Adams pulls a Kevin Cash-like September and has to sit all off-season with a shattered confidence.

Everyone said the Mets called up Jose Reyes too early, but he turned out fine (too bad about his leg, though).
_Nick G - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 02:03 AM EDT (#41857) #
I guess I just don't get it. J.P. said 2005 was the year the Jays would be competitive. Yes, he is responsible for this year, but this year isn't really a bad thing. It's not as if the Jays didn't meet some goal. Yes, it's a bad in year in that they're losing a lot, but not losing wasn't the goal. Assembling a team for 2005 and beyond was the goal. J.P. is doing a good job of this. Where and why is the 'blame'?
_Keith Talent - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 02:06 AM EDT (#41858) #
And while we're at it, why not get Quiroz behind the plate as well? And call up Crozier! If this year is done, why not use the time to get these kids ML experience. I would at least be interesting to watch this lineup for the rest of the season:

C - Quiroz
1B - Delgado/Crozier
2B - Hudson
3B - Hinske
SS - Adams
LF - Gross
CF - Wells
RF - Rios
DH - Woodward/Cat/Delgado/Crozier
_G.T. - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 02:07 AM EDT (#41859) #
At this point, I think fans are just craving a little discipline. We've seen enough of Hinske pounding his bat into the ground when he pops up

I don't know if I'm speaking for the "majority" of fans or if you are, but I don't mind seeing anger or frustration, though maybe it's just because I tend to slam my bat down after my softball flyouts. :)

Seriously, though, how many times were people like John Olerud criticized for their lack of passion, or whatever? Isn't Toronto part of Don Cherry country, where it's the Clark/Gilmour-types, not the Sundin/Mahovlich-types who become heroes?
_Jobu - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 02:17 AM EDT (#41860) #
I too am glad to see the Jays get angry when they mess up this season. It shows that even though the entire year is lost, they're not mailing it in and actually care about their performance. I recall several people at this site blasting O-Dog when he used to chuckle after a strikeout for not taking it seriously enough.
_Ron - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 02:22 AM EDT (#41861) #
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/john_donovan/03/16/bluejays.buzz/index.html
COMN for a positive article on the Jays during Spring Training

Assembling a team for 2005 and beyond was the goal. J.P. is doing a good job of this. Where and why is the 'blame'?

It's pretty simple when you look at it. You look at the Jays record and you have to point a finger at the guy responsible for putting the team together. Few of the current Jays played in the Ash era.

The majority of fans (not talking about the majority in here) don't want to hear about the down the road/few years talk. Just last Wednesday when a frustrated caller called JP and said he should be fired JP told him "I look foward to making you disappointed in 2007". So what year is it that we should have a legit shot at the playoffs 2005 or 2007? Maybe next time it will be 2010.

I think most of the fans are disturbed Hinske, Hudson, Phelps, and Woodward have regressed at the plate. Also Wells has regressed this season.

I understand all the blame can't be placed on JP but he knows he's in a position where he has to take a bullet for the teams failures.
I myself can't simply brush off this dreadful season and somehow think we will magically win 90-95 games next season and have a legit shot at the playoffs. The Jays have question marks in every area except starting pitching.
_Jobu - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 02:30 AM EDT (#41862) #
somehow think we will magically win 90-95 games next season and have a legit shot at the playoffs.

In all due respect I dont think the plan is to win that much and go to the play offs next season. JP's repeatedly said 06, 07, 08. Plus Im sure if you asked Tigers fans last year who had 43 wins all year if they thought they'd have 54 wins in the middle of August next year, they would have told you its impossible. Plus I think Clevelanders would be equaly surprised after a 68 win season that they'd have 63 wins in mid August and about to take over the division with almost the same team in place. Im not saying the Jays will (and niether has JP) but hey, weirder stuff has happened.
_Ron - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 02:41 AM EDT (#41863) #
I sure hope 08 isn't the year where JP expects to deliver because no GM should get 7 years to let their plan pan out. Like JP said last Wednesday if he doesn't deliver by 06 and 07 he said he would quit the job.

The homer side tells me JP will make all the right moves in the off-season and the Jays will stun the baseball world and compete for a playoff spot (or at least play meaningful games in August) but the "reality" side tells me my homer side is full of crap and the Jays will be lucky to escape the basement in the AL East next season.

Either way I'm really looking foward to see how next season will unfold. I doubt it could get much worse than this season.
_Smiley - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 03:23 AM EDT (#41864) #
I doubt it could get much worse than this season.

This season is the least fun I've had as a Jays fan.
_Tom in NY - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 04:37 AM EDT (#41865) #
Not Ryan, I hear ya, that old as your dad comment riled me up too. I have played pro sports, nothing exciting, just Lax and I guarantee I can still run all you college kids a--s off. It's the spirit and the desire that makes you do it, not just being 25. Youth ruins a good sports career more times than it makes it. Their is a hell of a lot of guys who wish they were as smart then as they were now, except now they're just boxing stuff in the back of a supermarket. If Meyers is sound and still wants to do it he'll be back.
_Tassle - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 06:31 AM EDT (#41866) #
Comforting fact of the day:

Josh Towers IS Kris Benson. Just a ridiculous amount cheaper. Doesn't that make you feel better?
_Tassle - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 06:39 AM EDT (#41867) #
By the way, that last comment was made in the "No Stats Zone". No one may quote stats to refute me; Towers is Benson, that is that :)
_Ducey - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#41868) #
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/college/040813cape.html
Here is BA's top 30 from the Cape Cod league. COMN. As the Jays will almost certainly take a college player, this will help you do the early handicapping on who the Jays would take with their (as of today) 4th overall pick (or maybe also their 2nd rounder). Of course, there is no mention in the article if any of these guys is represented by Scott Boras - whom JP would try to avoid, wouldn't he?
_Keith Talent - Sunday, August 15 2004 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#41869) #
that old as your dad comment riled me up too

Jeez, relax guys. Greg Myers is near 40 and it is totally conceivable that he has a son the age of Jobu. Is age now such a sensitive that we can't bring it up? Greg Myers was facing retirement. Then he completely destroyed his leg. I just don't see a man as content as Greg Myers (yes, content, age is a journey and life gets better each year! I don't know why people automatically assume age is a negative and get all uppity) going through all that re-hab when he was probably only slated for one more ML season. The Myers situation is not a case of him just "not healing", it's a case of whether he feels it's worth all the work for what playing time he figures he has left.

I think by the time you reach retirement age you are happy to be retired. I'm not sitting around pining for my undergraduate days and angling myself in nightclubs anymore, that world is completely irrelevant to me now. Likewise, once you've had a long career I don't think you'd feel the same satisfaction working your a** off to make it on a major league roster, you might rather take it easy. There's nothing tragic about it.
Craig B - Tuesday, August 17 2004 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#41870) #
Josh Towers IS Kris Benson. Just a ridiculous amount cheaper. Doesn't that make you feel better?

I know it will make Josh Towers feel a lot better when he heads home to his wife after this road trip.
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