And a familiar face starts at first for the Indians.

Praise the Lord, the game is back on Sportsnet!

This is the season from hell, so you know Phelps will go yard tonight.

So that's why Berg played first...

Very weird to see Phelps in a different uni.

I wish him the best of luck unless it's vs. the Jays.

Lilly has no clue where the ball is going. 3 BB's doesn't help the ol' fantasy stats either.

Did Lilly forget to take his warmups before the game?

Atleast he's getting the curve over which he sometimes struggles with.

Lilly and Batista both have poor control. Batista is number one in BB in the AL while Lilly is tied for 2nd. But at least in Lilly's case he's a strike out pitcher where as Batista isn't.

Actually, I think Victor Zambrano is still #1 in BB's, and will remain so even though he won't walk another AL hitter. But I agree with the point-they walk too many.

This game is blacked out in Montreal (where I am). What's the point of having cable? Bowling is on instead. Bowling.
Ted Rogers, you're killin' me here!

Lilly and Batista both have poor control.

They've had poor control this year. Last year, Lilly had 58 walks in 170+ innings.

Is Lily getting squeezed? It looks on Gamecast that a lot of these pitches are on the black.

The Bison's broadcaster, doing colour with Jerry tonight, says that Crozier is having a breakthrough season this year.

Woo-hoo!

Hey, did Carlos just hit that to LEFT?

Driving home tonight, Dave Stewart was on the fan.

He said he wasn't surprised that the Jays weren't doing well, because they've never had any pitching, and Halladay plus 4 other guys won't do it.

The McCown started going off on Moneyball, and said that he doesn't agree with not valuing Rickey Henderson.

Since the game is blacked out, I switched to TSN to watch the Argos and the Alouettes. Who's doing the play-by-play you ask? None other than Mr. Rod Black. The season from hell continues.

YEAH, TED!!

Tommy, can you get the game on the radio?

Lilly's brought his dancing shoes tonight. Given his pitchcount problems I would guess that we'll see Douglass tonight. We'll get to see how comfortable he is relieving.

NFH, I've got no sound card on this computer. I didn't really need one until now. I don't even have a jack for headphones. Time to upgrade. Thanks for asking.

All Star O-Dog!

(Stewart) said he wasn't surprised that the Jays weren't doing well, because they've never had any pitching, and Halladay plus 4 other guys won't do it.

I guess that's why he'll never be a GM, or at least a competent one. The Jays are 7th in the AL in ERA, 2nd in fielding percentage, and 12th in runs. Never let the facts get in the way of your opinions, Dave. Maybe the Star will hire him.

I'm not certain why anyone bothers to listen to McCowan and Cox talk about baseball; neither one knows a damn thing and when they need an "expert" they call Bob Elliott.

A question for the more stat savvy than I, but is Cash's current performance (offensively) as bad as the various forecasting metrics would have predicted from his minor league performance.

Not trying to start a scouting vs. stats argument,I'm just trying to resolve in my own mind why Cash is doing as bad as he is.

If he is a career .200 hitter to be, why would have he even made the club?

I really feel for the guy, even when others are slumping (see Hinske, Eric) they still manage to maintain a 250-260 average.

Just watching Cash tonight, I noticed 2 things - 1) he is late on fastballs (and Lee is only throwing 91-92) and 2) he is missing with his swing. One at bat, Lee throw 2 "here I am, hit me" fastballs and Cash wiffed at both of them.

At this rate, he won't have any trade value in the off-season. Maybe a NL club would take a flyer on him for his defense.

I vividly remember during an ESPN show about black athletes, around the time Ricciardi was hired, Dave Stewart was on and said something to the effect of "if you look at my track record compared to the person who got the job (JP), I blow him out the water", plus other quotes that appeared to insinuate that race had an effect on the decision. Nothing like accusing the Blue Jays of being racist without any proof, and openly insulting the man who got the job over you. Quite a professional.

Sour grapes, if you ask me.

I wonder if Stew recalls that his track record includes recommending trading for Joey Hamilton (at the price of Woody Williams, of course). I don't know how much of a hand he had in giving Joey $17 million or if that was all Ash's doing.

http://aaronreynolds.ca/gallery/Desktops
A present for people reading the game thread: Blue Jays desktops! COMN.

Thank you NFH! I choose VW.

thanks nfh. i picked rios.

I think I've seen Gibbons laugh and smile on the bench more in this game, than Tosca did the entire season.

Wow. The Indians announcers just said that Gary Sheffield might retire after this season due to his shoulder problems this season.

This is the first I've heard of this, anyone else surprised?

Gosh I hate Kerry LighterFluid...

Gosh, this is bringing back memories of Jeff Tam's awful outing in Boston last season.

You know, the one where Tam chewed a massive hole in his jersey.

To be fair, it's a lot easier for Gibbons to laugh and smile. He's got an 8-week tryout as Blue Jays skipper. If he impresses, he might get offered the job. If not, there's a good chance that he'll be kept around as first base coach (if any of the coaches are kept, he and Butterfield are the leading candidates, I believe) and if he is let go, then it was going to happen anyway and he can catch on somewhere else, albeit it might be in AAA. Carlos had a season from hell on his hands, and was trying to think of something, anything that might both turn the season around and increase his very minimal odds of keeping his job at the end of the season. I don't envy his position.

I think I've seen Gibbons laugh and smile on the bench more in this game, than Tosca did the entire season.

Kerry Ligtenberg will fix that soon.

I'm having trouble imagining Gibbons throwing a Piniella-esque tantrum and getting tossed from a game. But time will tell.

3-0 count.

Dave, there was an article about that linked on Primer today.

My guess is he's just hurting. He'll rest in the offseason and come back.
He can be a sure thing Hall of Famer if he stays around, I can't see him giving that up.

Good job, Kerry.

The Igniter strikes again!

That last one was close but when you've thrown 11 out of 13 pitches for balls, you aren't getting the call.

Oh, that's a classic memory. In a painful sort of way.

We need the Tosca quick hook now.

Ron DON'T punch the wall!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, that's a classic memory. In a painful sort of way.

What was JP ever thinking when he signed not only Jeff Tam, but DOUG LINTON!??! to contracts?

Ahh, those were the days... lol

superdevin DON'T punch kerry!!!!!!!!!

Geez he's not laughing now. Lets add a Loogy to our off season shopping cart.

Yikes

Broussard flat out owns with the bases loaded.

Hopefully Chulk can get the job done.

To think, there were 2 outs and nobody on not too long ago and a broken bat single got everything started.

Broussard's 3rd grand slam of the year.

Sums up the season!

Eat that Kerry's ERA

ok superdevin punch kerry.

(yes, i know kerry didn't give up the homer)

Fvck off Kerry Ligtenberg

This off-season, priority #1 should be to trade that useless hack for basically ANYTHING.

4 pitches to get the first two outs of this inning. Then a bloop basehit, 3 walks and a granny bring in 5 runs. Sweet. I was thinking the same thing Dave, it took all my might not to post what you did but with a u and some CAPS.

LighterFluid's ERA now jumps to 6.38.

What an investment

Think this offense has 4 runs in them?

Methinks not. But hey, ya never know.

Linton worked out fine. It was a minor league deal and he did have a 3.00 ERA in his 9 innings up here last year. No risk. Just some depth for AAA.

Gibbons won't be smiling much longer.

I bet Phelps is thinking, "So this is what feels like on the other side..."

Kerosene Ligterfluid is at it again.

Any chance Beane does us a favor in the off-season and takes the $2.5 million albatross off our hands next year? One can only hope.

And I honestly thought Ligtenberg would work out. Maybe a bit too much money, but I thought he'd do well. I say keep him, he can't possibly have any less value, and based on his past history, he will do well. I can't see us getting rid of him without basically having to eat most of his contract, which makes no sense.

Too bad the Indians will be watching October just like the Jays.

The Jays need 2 games to score 4 runs what makes you think they can score 4 runs in 2 innings.

What an investment

Hey, I didn't see you, or anyone else objecting to the signing at the time, and with good reason. There really was nothing to suggest that he, like many others that have struggled this year (Speier, Adams) would be anywhere near this bad, but that's how the game works.

Bandwagon fans crack me up.

The Jays need 2 games to score 4 runs what makes you think they can score 4 runs in 2 innings.

LOL, I know that Ron but I'm just trying to stay positive and keep hope alive. If I don't do that, I think I'll be the one who puts my hand through the TV!!

I can't see this game, but I'm trying to catch up.

O-dog homer = good.
Kerosene lighting, err ..loading the bases with walks = not good.

Anything else happen?

Bandwagon fans crack me up.

Yeah, I'm a bandwagon fan. Seeing as how I post on this and other sites, attend games whenever they are in the area, and follow the Jays despite the fact that they are 24.5 games back out of first.

Maybe the reason why people don't argue with certain signings, moves, etc. is because they have faith in the "powers that be" (JP) that the moves will work out. Quite frankly, none of the bullpen moves have worked out.

So what am I to say? Obviously Ligtenberg has been awful this season, so yes, I think it's a poor investment.

What a play by Lexi in right.

That play was almost identical to the one he made in that marathon pitchers duel at Oakland.

The kid can play

Why is it that if anyone criticizes a Jay, they immediately become a bandwagon/fair-weathered fan?

Right on Fozzy. This is K-Light's worst year by far. He's already set career highs in losses, runs, and hits and is well on the way to highs in ERA and walks. His ERA in the last 4 years was 3.61, 3.02, 2.97, 3.34. He was remarkably consistent until this year. No one saw this coming.
JP can't get anything for him now, so I'm assuming he's holding on to him hoping that he can't possibly be this bad next year. You don't trade an asset who's perceived value is less than its real value.

I'm wondering the same thing as braden.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/ligteke01.shtml
Dave, I think the point he is trying to make is would you have considered this a poor investment before the season began, based on Ligtenberg's career? I certiantly didn't and thought he'd be a solid setup man. Like others, I cautioned that he was suspect against lefties, but I thought he'd have another year right inline with his career.

How is JP supposed to have known he'd implode this year? You can fault GMs for poor decisions based on the information available, but there was nothing to suggest Kerry would hve such a terrible year.

In fact, his career before this year is remarkably consistent. COMN. His lowest adjusted ERA was 129 back in 2000, when he was coming off a missed season due to injury.

Yes, Ligtenberg has always been solid throughout his career. So the blame can't really be put on JP seeing as how he couldn't see this one coming. But look, Ligtenberg has always had problems against left-handed batters and it has really shown this season.

Braden, Ron, I'm wondering the same thing. And God forbid anyone disagree with a move by Ricciardi. I mean, I LOVE JP and the job he's done here... but people do make mistakes and he has made a few. It still doesn't take away from the great job he's done in Toronto so far, but I think people need to relax a bit when it comes to JP. Just because someone points out a mistake doesn't mean they are a bandwagoner or an Anti-JP Jays fan.

http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00001282.shtml
COMN for the thread when Kerry Ligtenberg was signed. Many people expressed concern at the size of his contract; some people expressed concern about his ability pitch to lefties and some about his home run rate.

It's safe to say that none of the critics, myself included, expected that he'd have a season like this. It's not like he performed like Jeff Tam or Doug Creek or Tanyon Sturtze prior to this year. He was a decent to good pitcher over a number of years.

These things happen, as do pitchers like Jason Fraser coming out of nowhere to be very good.

Objective dissent is productive. This team is buried in last.

Thomas, I agree with you entirely. BEFORE the season started I thought it was a good move, but sometimes in sports you have to look at things in THE NOW. As it stands right now, it's looking more and more like a poor investment. Fact remains that the Jays will be entering 2005 paying a reliever who had a wreck of a season 2.5 million.

Hopefully he can rebound

Ligtenberg just seems to be very, very, very inconsistent this season, which is not good if you're a relief pitcher. Remember in Yankee Stadium? Bases loaded nobody out, no runs allowed? Maybe he's pitching through an injury, but I still say he's worth keeping, and it was still a good idea to sign him in the off season.

No doubt about it, Ligtenberg has been awful. He might be the single worst free-agent signing that J.P. has made. Almost every bullpen guy J.P. has signed as a free-agent has underperformed.

I think he's been unlucky. I mean, based on past performance, who thought Adams would be as bad as he was? Certainly not me. Also, limited funds means that he can't sign the really good free agents that are on the open market.

Based on his past performance, of course.

The one positive thing I can think of right now is that with eaching passing game the Jays draft position is looking better and better. The Expos are catching up and with the Jays having a lot games left vs. the Yanks and Red Sox I wouldn't be suprised to see the M's finishing with a better record and the Jays ending with the 3rd pick next season.

Have you ever seen a team MISS so many Mistake pitches?

Have you ever seen a bunch of hitters GET UNDER as many balls as the Jays 04 offense has?

Methinks not.

Ugh. Swept by the Indians. 6 runs in three games, zero against their (even worse than ours) bullpen. Not impressive.

Most disappointing team in the majors is...............

.....You're Toronto Blue Jays!!!

I'm curious to see what the marketing department is going to do to sell season tickets for next season.

From what I've read last years strong season did little to increase season ticket sales.

Hopefully next season Schilling, Manny, Ortiz, Foulke, Varatik, Wakefield, Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, Jeter, A-Rod, Brown, Rivera, Gordon, Quantrill, Tejada, Raffy, Mora, Lopez, Tino, Rocco, Crawford, and Huff all get injured next season and the Jays win the division:)

... the Seattle Mariners.

lol.

That reminds me of Dan Plesac a few years ago, on being asked what the Jays needed to win the AL East, responded, "we need the Yankees and Red Sox to get in a brawl on opening day and hope for a lot of injuries."

Emerald, I believe it was only 4 runs in 3 games. Even less impressive.

... the Houston Astros!
... the Seattle Mariners!
... the Toronro Blue Jays!
... the Kansas City Royals!
... the Philadelphia Phillies!

What a season of disappointment...

Let's pretend it was 6, that way I'll sleep better.

I'm curious to see what the marketing department is going to do to sell season tickets for next season.

From a completely personal perspective, if there's a silver lining to this wretched season, it's that it seems likely I'll be able to renew my Season's Pass. I'd always figured as soon as the Jays turned the corner and the attendence picked up, the 81 games/$81 deal be dead.

This is not the season from hell, this is the season IN hell

I found this to be a fairly amazing stat: The Red Sox have both scored more runs (643), and given up fewer runs (466, tied for fewest ER in AL) than the Yanks (629, 505) yet are 9.5 games BEHIND. How does THAT happen? The ol' "Yankee luck" at work again. Eat that Pythagorean Record.

Sorry for saying you're a bandwagon fan Dave, I just don't think it's overly fair to critisize a move with perverbial 20/20 hindsight (In all honesty, posting a lot or going to sites doesn't make you a good supportive, non-bandwagon fan, just ask Richard Griffin).

There really was no reaosn to believe Lightenberg would be this bad though. As Thomas points out, his numbers were solid, and in the perfect, by-the-numbers world, he would have been a late-inning ROOGY that did his job before giving way to De Los Santos, Adams and Speier. Unfortunately, things have downturned, and the man that is probably the worst against lefties seems to have become the LOOGY on this team; and it's not like there's a lot of lefties in Syracuse to call up to rectify the situation; the only options there are:

Jason Kershner (6.04 ERA, 28 hits in 22.1 IP, 5HR, 5BB, 19K)
Dave Maurer (decent numbers but injured)
Jesus Sanchez (8.10 ERA, 18 hits in 13.1IP, 1HR, 8BB, 12K) in AAA.

Not exactly glowing. Don't be surprised if this team has 2 or 3 lefties signed in the off-season.

Smiley: I thought they got rid of that 81/81 deal before the start of spring training, and they just honoured those who had it before this time around.

I've only listened to Mike Wilner 2 times before and I think he does a great job as a host. I like it when he puts the callers in their place when they're out of line or have nothing to back up their claims (I'm sure some would say he acts like an asshole sometimes but I like it).

Fozzy, I don't think anyone in this thread was critisicing JP for signing Ligtenberg, they were just saying it was a poor investment. And it was; whether or not you agreed with the signing at the time is irrelvant, it was still a poor investment.

Any chance Kerry will be punted ala Olerud in Seattle? Heh.

I should dig up the Ligtenberg signs thread, but I'm almost certain that a strong majority of Bauxites thought that the Jays paid too much. Others questioned the inclusion the second year in the contract.

Hmm.... Wilner said Lightenburg was put on waivers but wasn't claimed.

If he cleared waivers couldn't the Jays send him down to AAA then? And if Lightenburg refused he could be released or bought out?

Man, is this ever ugly. I didn't see the game, but I'm wondering why the Jays brought in Ligtenberg in such a close game. Didn't they have anyone better (maybe Speier) who was rested and available? Or has there been a general perception--before tonight's game, anyway--that KL was starting to turn the corner?

Re losing big, and getting a high draft pick as a result: is this really such an advantage? Doesn't the team that picks first in round one also pick last in round two? So that the team that gets a David Purcey in round one also gets a Curtis Thigpen in round two? Doesn't it all even out in the end? (Unless, of course, there is an obvious A-Rod or Griffey or Clemens in the draft.)

Greenfrog, I'm pretty sure that the draft order stays the same all throughout the draft.

The team with the 3rd pick picks 3rd every round.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/draftday/y2004/search.jsp?sc=round&sp=3
Greenfrog, you can COMN for a link to this year's draft. If you look, every round the order is the same except for the compensation obviously.

I believe JG put in Lightenberg because everybody has a clean slate on the team. Chulk was available but he showed confidence in Kerry thinking he could get one out. And even after walking 2 batters to load the bases he still showed confidence in him and it backfired.
He had been scored on in 4 (ER's) of his previous 8 appearances.

As for the draft I didn't know in baseball the the draft order goes in reverse. But either way the higher pick you have in the first round the better the chances of selecting a player you really like.

For those who have complained about the Jays not having any "superstars" in their farm system, this year might be the year you get your wish.

It would be interesting to see how JP approaches having to sign a top 5 pick.

Ligtenberg signs thread

The consensus seems to have been that ...

A) Ligtenberg would improve the bullpen significantly and

B) The Jays paid too much.

Well 1 out of 2 ain't bad

Dave: thanks for the correction on draft order. Having a high pick will make next year's draft interesting. Of course, that pick will likely take at least a couple of years to make an impact in the bigs (2008, anyone?).

Oops, I just noticed my typo, two hours later. Damn Toronro Blue Jays.

Getting a high pick in the draft would definitely be exciting. Even if the system were stocked like it were three years ago, we would still draft a pretty good prospect with high potential.

If we have a really early pick next June, I'm in favour of a position player unless there's a true power pitcher available. Looking back on the last few years of very high college pitching picks, only Prior has really been worth it. College or no, the pitchers just seem very hit and miss when taken that high and compared to the signing bonus they demand. So I'm thinking hitter and definately consider advanced high schoolers as well. I don't want to see the Jays take a Brian Bullington instead of a BJ Upton as the Pirates did.

The last time the Jays picked 5th in the draft, we got Vernon Wells. So yeah, I'm excited.
And hey, it could be 4th pick if the Expos keep playing like they're playing.

Man, the things you have to do to make a season like this seem okay.

i WISH they re-offered the Starpass, but from the sudden "outrage" by seasons ticket holders last year I strongly doubt they will be back. Which is unfortunate b/c there's certainly no way I can afford season tickets.

As for keeping season tickets and attendance in the off season, as I said a day or two ago, I think signing a big name is really in the Jays best intrest. The offence clearly needs help, but aside from that big names are the only thing joe average fan cares about. Im not saying try to field a team of them, but just one (if carlos leaves) that local casual fans can get excited about.

NFH, I heard free desktops and then you kill me with no Sparky....

When I got out of the car tonight the Jays were winning, when I got back in and I heard the Wilner re-cap it felt like I shrunk a foot and a half in my seat. What a season...

Over at ESPN in their Baseball Tonight Extra feature, they include the headlines from this night in 1987. Among others, this one's listed:

The game of the night pitted the two teams in the AL East basement -- Toronto and Cleveland. The Indians overcame an 8-0 deficit, and scored six runs in the 9th inning to beat the Blue Jays, 9-8, before 4,222 at cavernous Municipal Stadium. Indians infielder Toby Harrah led off the 9th inning with a home run, then singled in the winning run with two outs in his second at-bat of the inning.

So the Season From Hell is actually a repetition of the SFH circa 1987? The positive in this is in 1987, we only had to wait til 1989 to be back in the postseason. 2007 anyone?

Didn't the jays contend for the AL east crown up untill the last series against Detroit in 87. I thought that was the year Madlock took out Fernandez?

You're right, Tom. Sleep deprivation has made me utterly insane. That post refers to 1979, not 87. Aside from the coincidental nature of the Blue Jays schedule and record between 1979 and 2004, please excuse that post. I will now go to sleep.

If the Blue Jays do end up picking in the top 5 (highly, highly likely), they will be able to get a top-flight college power bat if they want. Moreover, the top picks are at positions where we are currently weak. The names to keep in mind are John Mayberry Jr. (1b/of), Alex Gordon (3b) and Jeff Clement (c)--all three hit for power. There is also Stephen Head (lhp/1b) (but I am not sure if he is projected in the majors as a hitter or pitcher--anybody know?). Finally, the top pitcher I believe is Mike Pelfrey (Boras client) so we would pass on him. The top high school pick is Justin Upton, who right now would probably go #1 overall.

If I was a bettin man,I would say the Jays get Mayberry, although Seattle has drafted him once already.

Well, by taking a look at the names above, Alex Gordon seems to be the best pick out of all those guys. He was ranked #4 (right after Chip Cannon) on Craig's 2004 Adjusted NCAA Hitters list. Although he was a freshman last year, I don't know if he would pass up signing if he were to be selected in the Top 5 next year.

I'll tell you something, any guy who can sit with the big dogs in the NCAA at age 20 gets my vote. I'm guessing he's gone before the Jays pick. It should be noted that so much changes between now and the draft, I don't even think you could even formulate a Top 20 with any kind of accuracy right now.

If the Blue Jays do end up picking in the top 5 (highly, highly likely), they will be able to get a top-flight college power bat if they want.

I still think the Jays will be able to pull past the top 5 (geez, I really do have rose-colored glasses), but they certainly will be in the top 8 or 9. It will allow them to do what they haven't done before, and look at everyone in the draft with a view to possibly getting them.

One guy who will be eligible is Jed Lowrie of Stanford, who if he can improve on last year would be a terrific potential pick - IF he has a future at second base, and that I just don't know. Lowrie was the best hitter in college baseball last year, narrowly edging Ryan Jones, and he's an infielder. Unlike Jones, Lowrie's not a total shrimp, he's 5-11, 170 which is OK for a middle infielder. But would the Jays want another infielder?

I would imagine that the Blue Jays would want to go after a pitcher in that position, but nothing is for certain.

There is also Stephen Head (lhp/1b) (but I am not sure if he is projected in the majors as a hitter or pitcher--anybody know?)

Apparently as a hitter, and that's what Boyd Nation thinks as well. But I think he's a better pitcher than a hitter. Why? Especially when he ranked #60 on my hitters' list, and only #65 on my pitchers' list?

I'll tell you why! :)

It's that old bugbear - control of the strike zone. Look at the best hitter prospects in 2004... like Stephen Drew. Drew had 41 walks and 38 strikeouts in 195 at-bats. Richie Robnett - 36 walks and 41 strikeouts in 229 at-bats. Mike Ferris - 60 walks and 29 strikeouts in 208 at-bats. Matt Macri - 38 walks and 39 strikeouts, 221 at bats.

Head, by comparison, had 23 walks and 33 strikeouts in 213 at-bats. Now that's certainly not bad - striking out just 15% of the time is real good for a power hitter. But it's just average or a little below.

Meanwhile, as a pitcher, Head showed awesome control of the strike zone. His K/W of 3.7 to 1 was good even for a pitcher of his top caliber.

The thing is, Head may end up being a reliever-only. So what do you do with that? If a guy is better in the pen, there's no way he can be as valuable as a guy who starts at first base. So even if he's "better" as a pitcher, it may be smarter for the team who drafts him to install him at first, and only if he peters out as a power prospect, then try him on the mound - Brooks Kieschnick style, maybe.

Ron, no it's a different type of waivers then the usual kind. This was likely only the revocable waivers that are required to make a trade after the July 31 deadline. This only means that we can trade Ligtenberg to any team (if any team actually wanted him). He likely would pass through the other type of waivers but since he's a veteran would elect for free agency and we'd still be on the hook for most of his contract.

Craig beat me to pointing out Jed Lowrie but Brent is right that a whole lot will likely change between now and the draft. Though from what I've read Lowrie is actually quite a good defender at both 2nd and shortstop. For a $2-3 million draft bonus I think the Jays might be a little reluctant to draft an arm. Not that they wouldn't take one but I think they might lean a little more towards a hitter if possible.

One thing I failed to mention is that Alex Gordon throws left-handed. How many left-handed third basemen have there been in the majors? I can't think of any off the top of my head, so this leads me to believe that Gordon may switch to 1B or a corner outfield spot. His power seems to be there in order to make the switch.

Of course John Mayberry Sr. was the first Blue Jay to hit 30 homers in a season.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/squirmi01.shtml
Brent, Mike Squires played 14 games at 3B in the 80s. COMN. That's the only one I know of.

And yes, the odds of Gordon staying at 3B when he throws left-handed are basically none. So he'd become, as you said, a corner outfielder or first baseman.

I watched a bit of Jays in an hour after getting home last night, and saw the Ligtenberg self-destruction.

He was certainly nibbling out there, but in my opinion he got squeezed by the ump. There were tons of pitches at the knees on the outside corner that I have seen called strikes in other games this year. His last pitch (on the third walk) appeared to be right down the middle, belt-high. I could understand that being a ball 10 years ago, but isn't the high strike supposed to be called these days?

Having said all that, Ligtenberg desperately needs an off-speed breaking pitch. Everything he throws is hard. So he needs to paint the corners to avoid getting hammered. If he just had something to throw hitters off balance, he would be able to cut loose and just throw the ball. I have no idea how he got away with his current approach for the last 5 years.

Too bad about the loss last night. I hope the Jays' bats wake up soon.