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Swallowed up in symbols
Wanting what I don't need
If sympathy's the answer
I'll have temporary cancer
But that's not what I'll have you believe


The Indians finally found their can-opener, and were therefore able to open that vacuum-sealed tin of whup-ass on the Blue Jays last night. With Pat Hentgen's retirement, Josh Towers has seemingly taken over the role of dispensing refreshingly candid assessments of his bad performances. To wit:

MLB.com: Jays can't catch up with Indians: "[My] slider was one of the worst I've ever seen."

The Sun: Indians topple Towers' run: "I was second-guessing a lot of pitches I threw tonight."

The Globe & Mail: Towers' win streak ends: "I didn't feel like there was life on the ball today."

The Star: Blue Jays bonked by Pronk, Indians: "The best I can take out of this one is that it's gone."

Just one of those games -- the Indians are a powerhouse club, and Towers had probably been playing a little over his head lately. Happily, Toronto gets an early chance at redemption today in a 12:35 pm start at the Dome. David Bush squares off against Chad Durbin as the Jays try to take 3 of 4 from the Tribe. Mike Rutsey interviews Bush about the recent first speed bump in his young major-league career.

Elsewhere around the e-baseball world:

* As we saw, Justin Miller was activated last night (he probably wishes the team had waited one more game), and in all likelihood will spend the next several days in the bullpen as he makes his way back into game shape. Until then, Sean Douglass will probably remain in the rotation. Micheal Nakamura drew the short straw again and is back on board the Syracuse Shuttle.

* Dave Berg, not Reed Johnson, will continue to get the starts in left field against righty pitchers for at least the next little while. As was pointed out in last night's game thread, Tosca has recognized that Reed is tiring (.266/.310/.339 in July) and needs a breather. Since Berg is swinging a hot bat right now, I think this is actually excellent use of his bench by Tosca.

* Spencer Fordin talks about the steadying influence of veteran catcher Gregg Zaun, who has been a real help for Toronto's younger pitchers. Zaun has been a windfall for the organization, bringing character, expertise and a hot bat for the first couple of months of 2004. That said, it's time for Kevin Cash to take over the catching duties as soon as he's able. I supported playing Zaun over Cash when the lineup was decimated -- the Jays needed all the bats they could get -- but with the regulars back and Zaun's offence back to its regular proportions once more, it's time to showcase Cash for what will likely be an off-season trade.

* Canada's Olympic effort got off to a good start with a 5-3 exhibition win over Greece yesterday. Though really, aren't these Olympic matches all exhibition games?

* One night after Tony Batista tied and then won the game for Montreal with late-innings homers, the incredible Albert Pujols returned the favour with a 9th-inning walk-off round-tripper against Les Expos. Setting aside Barry Bonds for a moment as a special case, can it not be argued that the two best players in the National League, and perhaps in all of baseball, man the infield corners for St. Louis? Pujols and Scott Rolen run the real risk of splitting possible MVP votes at season's end.

* Speaking of Canucks, how long will it be before Justin Morneau wrests the title of best Canadian ballplayer from Larry Walker? The rookie first baseman cranked his second home run in as many nights in Minnesota's 6-3 victory over Anaheim. And speaking of infield corners, here's a related trivia question, one to which I don't know the answer and don't intend to go find out: has any team ever regularly started Canadians at first base and third base (Corey Koskie) before?

* Daily Diversion: Turbo Tanks. Think this Pongish-looking tank game is easy? Guess again. The opposition tank is AI-powered, and learns as it goes on. So every time you lose a round, it gets better; basically, you can't afford to lose. Watch your palms get sweaty.
Jays Roundup: Soul Like a Thimble | 55 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Chuck Van Den C - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:18 AM EDT (#45527) #
Setting aside Barry Bonds for a moment as a special case, can it not be argued that the two best players in the National League, and perhaps in all of baseball, man the infield corners for St. Louis?

Rolen 333/410/611 25, 96
Pujols 323/412/636 31, 78
Edmonds 301/411/649 29, 78

Where's the love for the Cards' very own CF?

While it can be argued that Edmonds' performance to date is him maxed out while Pujols' performance is simply his baseline, to this point Edmonds has been the more valuable of the two based on positional adjustments and defensive competence.
_Daryn - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:19 AM EDT (#45528) #
*hijack already*

Anyone have a leak on what "The FAN's" big announcement is going to be at 11:45?
_Christopher - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:20 AM EDT (#45529) #
With Miller coming back, who's the odds man out of the rotation?
_Four Seamer - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:21 AM EDT (#45530) #
I don't care what Nigel and the others were saying about Towers in yesterday's thread. It may be odd, but I think of Josh as someone who's cool.
_Jordan - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:25 AM EDT (#45531) #
Double winners! Christopher posted first, but Four Seamer identified both the band and the song (Someone Who Is Cool, by The Odds), so they each receive 5 million points, and they can choose their preferred Muppet:

Mike Green - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:27 AM EDT (#45532) #
The much-mooted Felipe Lopez is back up for Cincinnati. In last night's game, he ended up in Griffey's slot after his injury, and proceeded to hit the game-deciding homer.
_Four Seamer - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#45533) #
I'll defer to Christopher, who beat me to the punch. But if you're feeling charitable, I've always had a soft spot for Waldorf!
_Christopher - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:31 AM EDT (#45534) #
I'm fine with Statler. :)
_Brent - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:33 AM EDT (#45535) #
Oh man, I knew these lyrics too! Perhaps tomorrow we can set up some special Black Metal lyrics. Or anything by Tony Bennett. Yes, I am aware my musical tastes couldn't be more divergent.
Gerry - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:37 AM EDT (#45536) #
Anyone have a leak on what "The FAN's" big announcement is going to be at 11:45?

If you believe the Star this morning it is that Gord Stellick will take over from Marsden on the morning show and Chuck Swirsky will do the midday show.
_Spicol - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:41 AM EDT (#45537) #
As lame as it usually was, I miss the FAN morning show. Pat Marsden woke me up most days. Um, on my clock radio.

What's Pat doing? Retiring?
_Loveshack - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:41 AM EDT (#45538) #
12:35 pm start

Great a middle of the day start on a Thursday. Can anyone tell me what's the best place online to get game updates without audio (other than here of course), since Ill still be semi-working? ESPN? MLB.com?
_Dr. Zarco - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:48 AM EDT (#45539) #
Loveshack, I've always thought MLB.com's Gameday is the best around. Seems to beone of the quickest and has things like pitch counts (with balls/strikes), pitch location, field dimensions, and location of batted ball that are all very nice. But here's best for commentary of course :=)
_Skills - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#45540) #
MLB.com has the best play by play. I live in New Jersey and have no access to Jays radio or TV, so I fashion myself an expert on this. I follow the games online all the time.
_Kevin - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#45541) #
You can "watch" the game in real-time on MLB.com's GameDay feature. It updates after every pitch.
_Kevin - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#45542) #
I subscribe to MLB.TV so I can watch games on my computer at work during the day. But I live in Buffalo, so they blackout all games involving Cleveland, Yankees, etc.

Another option is fan590.com, so you can listen live to the Jays broadcast.

I wish the Jays were back on CBC so I could at least see a few games on regular TV. Now I'm just venting....
_Loveshack - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 09:56 AM EDT (#45543) #
Thanks for the quick response guys, MLB.com it is.
Pistol - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#45544) #
Can anyone tell me what's the best place online to get game updates

I like CBSsportsline.com, but I can't say I've tried MLB.com which most people seem to like.
_Daryn - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:02 AM EDT (#45545) #
As lame as it usually was, I miss the FAN morning show. Pat Marsden woke me up most days. Um, on my clock radio.

I couldn't listen to Pat... I always felt that he would take some hearsay opinion make it his own and then grow it into concrete fact WITH fabricated evidence over the morning... I had to switch to a different station.

If it is Gordie in the morning, then I think I'll like it... but I don't know if I can take "The Swirss" every day... that over the top delivery is hard to take when its just a conversation...

Would be nice if "Sports Radio" was more encompassing than NHL and Swirsky's NBA insight... you know, there is a whole MLB out there that rarely gets any coverage at all...
Craig B - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#45546) #
Wow! Turbo Tanks is awesome.
_Daryn - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#45547) #
I like CBSsportsline.com, but I can't say I've tried MLB.com which most people seem to like.

ESPN has "Game Tracker" too ...not sure which I like better, they are both good.... I'll try MLB today...
_Dr. Zarco - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#45548) #
Wow! Turbo Tanks is awesome.

No kidding! The first few levels seem easy. I passed 3 or 4 levels when they gave me a password...and then lost all 3 lives on the same level. It takes awhile to learn to turn the tank as you move. Fun game though!
_Loveshack - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#45549) #
Can't say Im a big Stellick fan, don't know why Ive just never really liked the guy as a host. And I dont think Im going to like Swirsky either. His delivery is great for an NBA play-by-play guy but as a host trying to have conversations with callers and doing interviews? Im not so sure. But then again I actually like listening to McCowan which I know alot of people dont. Hogan is definitely the best host on that station though as far as Im concerned.
Craig B - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#45550) #
I always use MLB GameDay after having test-driven them all last year. I find it really excellent.
_Ryan Day - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#45551) #
but with the regulars back and Zaun's offence back to its regular proportions once more, it's time to showcase Cash for what will likely be an off-season trade.

Does Cash really need to be showcased, though? I'd think most teams are well aware of what he can do: Play really awesome defence and hit .220 with an occasional bit of pop.
_Four Seamer - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#45552) #
Hogan is definitely the best host on that station though as far as Im concerned.

Are you putting us on, Loveshack :)! I never thought I'd live to see the day where Hogie was praised, even faintly, as a quality radio host. Ah, Alan Thicke sure was right when he wrote those famous words, "Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum/
What might be right for you, may not be right for some."

I myself am looking forward to a little burst of Stellicktricity in the morning.
_Loveshack - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#45553) #
Well then perhaps it's just me :) I enjoy his easy going attitude and his interview style. Plus he's one of the only guys on that station that knows anything at all about football. Id take him anyday over Stellick, Swirksy, or Landry.
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#45554) #
What's Pat doing? Retiring?

They didn't renew his contract, so he retired.
_Matt S - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#45555) #
I'm with Loveshack. I think Hogan is by far the best host on the Fan. Plus, he has the most baseball knowledge by a long shot.
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 10:47 AM EDT (#45556) #
Speaking of hosts on the Fan, did anyone catch Lajoie the other day when he got fed up with people saying "I'll watch the Blue Jays when they win"?

He started making a list of his favourite sports teams. "Know who I love in baseball? The Florida Marlins. Know who I love in hockey? The Lighting." And he proceeded to name every team who had won their league in every imaginable sport.
_Four Seamer - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 11:09 AM EDT (#45557) #
No doubt Hogan knows his baseball, and his football too. He is as well-versed, and as well-prepared, as anyone of the on-air personalities.

But it's his manner that drives me around the bend - I can't listen to him for more than an hour without propping toothpicks under my eyelids. I think the worst is whenever Chris Schultz comes on and they start slapping each other on the back for an hour.
_Christopher - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#45558) #
Speaking of hosts on the Fan, did anyone catch Lajoie the other day when he got fed up with people saying "I'll watch the Blue Jays when they win"?

It's odd how a lot of fans don't equate supporting the team to it's success. They won't show until the team wins, but the team won't win until people show and help contribute to it's bottom line.
I find it very frustrating.
_Jacko - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#45559) #
Why drives me crazy about the on-air guys at the FAN is their ridiculous "dramatic pauses" whenever they are discussing something they believe is controversial.

I hate, hate, HATE, that style of talking. Sadly, Wilner is somewhat guilty of it, though he's nowhere near as bad as some of the other guys.

Is this something that is taught in school? Is is a sports radio thing? Or is it just something that evolved at the FAN?
_Loveshack - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 11:32 AM EDT (#45560) #
According to MLB gameday (which I just clicked on) it looks like there's a big turnover in the starting lineup for Jays today. Reed, Woodward, Cash, and Menechino are all in. Plus Phelps at 1B and Carlos DH'ing. Can this be correct?
Mike Green - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#45562) #
Could it be correct? Sure. I'm a bit surprised that this would happen against a righty, but I approve wholeheartedly.
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#45564) #
Jim Acker had a great suggestion in yesterday's game thread: instead of the hockey signing updates that they run on the JumboTron, why not run video highlights from other MLB games? It's still an encouragement to tune into Sportsnet News when you get home, but it's a little more related to what we care about at the Dome.
Mike Green - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#45565) #
Why drives me crazy about the on-air guys at the FAN is their ridiculous "dramatic pauses" whenever they are discussing something they believe is controversial.

I hate, hate, HATE, that style of talking. Sadly, Wilner is somewhat guilty of it, though he's nowhere near as bad as some of the other guys.

Is this something that is taught in school? Is is a sports radio thing? Or is it just something that evolved at the FAN?


That sounds like a libel lawyer's advice.:)
_G.T. - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#45566) #
why not run video highlights from other MLB games? It's still an encouragement to tune into Sportsnet News when you get home, but it's a little more related to what we care about at the Dome

Sadly, it probably isn't more related to what the majority at the Dome care about.

Speaking of updates, I love it that they make a point of giving the Orioles score at Ottawa Lynx games. Cracks me up every time... as if there's anyone outside the dugout that really cares about an ingame Baltimore-KC score.
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 12:06 PM EDT (#45567) #
Joining Landry on the morning show: Gord Stellick. Apparently there are three other announcements that they're going to make, but they're taking their sweet time about it.
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#45568) #
Sadly, it probably isn't more related to what the majority at the Dome care about.

You think that people who have come out to the SkyDome to see a baseball game are more interested Thomas Voukoun re-signing with the Thrashers than with what else is happening in MLB?
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#45569) #
Yep, Swirsky takes over 1 to 4 pm. Any bets on the other two announcements?
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#45570) #
Raptors play-by-play will be on the Fan for three more years. Swirsky will continue to broadcast the Raptors on TV and will somehow do his daytime show even while travelling with the Raptors. Radio will now have its own broadcast of the Raps with new hosts, so no more simulcast.

Grapeline has been extended for two more years.

Geez, none of those announcements were all that exciting.
_Jobu - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#45571) #
Nothing to do with baseball, but its really driving me crazy. Does anyone remember the name of an old nintendo game (started with Anticip- something) where you had odd game pieces on a floating game board and you had to guess (like pictionary) what a picture was while the computer connected the dots. Its killing me.... Almost as much as this start for Bush.
_Daryn - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 01:15 PM EDT (#45572) #
The worst guy with that is Jim Rome (though he wasn't on the fan).

He's absolutely the worst.. In my mind what he is doing is thinking, "MAN that was a cool thing to say, I think I'll repeat it a few times"

why not run video highlights from other MLB games? It's still an encouragement to tune into Sportsnet News when you get home, but it's a little more related to what we care about at the Dome

Sadly, it probably isn't more related to what the majority at the Dome care about.


I think the Jays missed out when there were 4 Million Tourists going to the park on a chance to teach them something about baseball using the Jumbotron...

If the Jays can't win every year (and who can.. don't say the Yankees, they can't either), then you are going to need fans that actually like the game... instead they used the Jumbotron to SUCH DISTRACTION, that they actually fostered the feeling that the baseball is getting in the way of the experience.

I think they should be showing baseball highlights, signings, updates, Tips on Coaching, Managerial Strategies, Explain a Hit and Run, Fan Etiquette, Explain why not to catch a Foul if Carlos is going to get it, BASEBALL stuff!
_GregH - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 02:29 PM EDT (#45573) #
Can't say Im a big Stellick fan, don't know why Ive just never really liked the guy as a host.

I agree, although his interview style is better than when he just talks. I did like his emotion when MLSE cancelled the Easter Seals Skate for disabled kids (if anyone remembers that).

The real problem with Stellick is that its all hockey..hockey...hockey...yucky...yuck!

On Tuesday I had the Fan on in my car on the way home and Stellick was interviewing some hockey player who had just signed a contract with Nashville or Phoenix or somewhere, and who had been a Maple Loaf in '99.

Really - with the Blue Jays in town, I wonder if they even tried to contact a Jays player for an interview.
Craig B - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#45574) #
The real problem with Stellick is that its all hockey

I think that people are insufficiently grateful to the man who presided over the Olczyk/Fergus/Dave Reid Maple Leafs; the man who brought Doug Shedden to Toronto; the man who more than any other was responsible for the Ken Wregget Renaissance. This is the guy who rescued Ken Hammond from obscurity; oversaw the glorious conclusion to the Rick Lanz era and gave Chris Kotsopoulos the NHL farewell tour he so richly deserved.

He was a rich font of talent for Eurpoean hockey; within two years at least seven of the 1988-89 Leafs were playing for European clubs.

The best thing about Stellick, of course, was that as a hockey sophisticate he saw in Scott Pearson what lesser men could not. Why saddle yourself with the pedestrian talents of Jeremy Roenick, Rod Brind'Amour or Teemu Selanne when you could have Bryan Fogarty's slighty less-talented teammate?

Gord Stellick is a hockey legend. We should be thankful for the pearls of hockey wisdom that drip from his lips.
_Rob - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#45575) #
Ah, the days I wish I was around for. When the Leafs were terrible, not just bad like they are now.

Harold Ballard - The patron saint of Leaf Haters
Gord Stellick - A close second

Of course, the Leafs did sign three 40-year olds to play a year without any hockey games, so I can always hope for another bad Leafs era.
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#45576) #
You know, the one thing that makes Stellick entertaining on Sportsnet's Hockey Central panel is that the rest of the panel belittle his skills as a GM given the slightest opportunity and he goes along with it, and it can be quite funny.
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#45577) #
GUYS, what seems to have been lost in all this Stellick-as-radio-host talk is the OTHER big radio host news: starting Monday, the one and only Kim Mitchell will be Q107's afternoon DJ.
Craig B - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#45578) #
I predict a very large number of jokes about soda and patio lanterns, and *not nearly enough* Max Webster. Max Webster freaking rocks.
Named For Hank - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#45579) #
Not to mention Calle Johansen.
Craig B - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#45580) #
_Rob - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 06:14 PM EDT (#45581) #
For any CFL fans, check this out from the always-reliable Marty York...heheh. Pinball a player again?
Jays Roundup: Soul Like a Thimble | 55 comments | Create New Account
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