Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Jays Roundup: On The Edge of Oblivion

All the world is Babylon
And all the love and everyone
A ship of fools sailing on

So, was it ball four or strike three? Frank Menechino thought it was low, and the umpire agreed, and the Jays caught a break for once this season. But the credit for last night's win should be spread evenly throughout the lineup, including Carlos Delgado's clutch, game-tying two-run homer. Read all about it, and more:

The Star: Jays claw out win over Indians, which includes some nifty interplay between Menechino and his buddy Rick White.

MLB.com: Jays rally to sting Indians, including Carlos Tosca's praise for much-maligned Dave Berg, who's giving Reed Johnson a rest the last few days.

CP: Jays storm back to beat Indians

The Sun: Jays finally show power, which raises the amazing fact that Toronto is second-last in the league in home runs this year. Even with Wells and Delgado out of the lineup for several weeks each, did anyone imagine we'd be saying that in early August?

Elsewhere around the e-baseball world:

* Former Blue Jay Tony Batista had the game of his life in St. Louis last night, belting a game-tying two-run homer off Jason Isringhausen in the 9th inning and following that up with a game-winning grand slam in the 12th -- the 200th home run of his career. Congratulations to Tony, who'll always be welcomed by fans of both of Canada's big-league teams.

* Another former Blue Jay, perhaps a little less welcome around these parts, was also in the news, as Roger Clemens celebrated his 42nd birthday and a gutty performance for the Astros by venting his dismay over his ejection from his son's Youth League game in Colorado. While I think the Rocket was probably ejected unjustly, it still would have been nice had he added: "But you know, I want to send a message to all the Little League parents out there: it's only a game. Don't get yourselves all wound up, angry and shouting in front of your kid and his teammates and ruining it for everyone. This is supposed to be fun." Roger didn't get around to that part of his speech, I guess.

* Richard Griffin writes about the slow disappearing act of Chris Woodward, who is almost certainly watching his Toronto career wind down. As usual, I disagree with a number of Griffin's characterizations of Woody's situation -- Chris lost his job this year not to injury, but to his lack of production when he returned from injury (he was at .324/.384/.529 when he came back on June 8, .256/.299/.416 a month later) and the fact that Chris Gomez (.288/.349/.352) has essentially outplayed him. Allowing young players to keep their jobs despite consistently mediocre play is one of the things that cost Gord Ash his job.

* John Olerud joins the Evil Empire, becoming the 19th current or former All-Star on the Yankees. A fabulous no-prize to the first Bauxite who can figure out who the Sickly Six are.

* As this Bauxite pointed out weeks ago, it's been raining on Jason Frasor's honeymoon lately, and those struggles surfaced again last night. Frasor talks to Spencer Fordin about the need to bear down and get the leadoff hitter, and to maintain a closer's mentality. Frasor's durability -- two surgeries and an unprecedented number of 2005 innings -- is also something to think about. I don't see Frasor as next year's closer, though I think he can be a fine late-inning reliever; what about you?

Posted by Jordan on Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 09:16 AM EDT.

Jays Roundup: On The Edge of Oblivion | 97 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

_Tom - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#45831) #

Frasor's troubles worry me, as a fantasy owner, I want to make sure everybody has fun tonight and get me some points, including Frasor.

_Gwyn - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 09:34 AM EDT (#45832) #

There are a couple of terrific pieces on The Hardball Times today. Steve Treder looks at, and adds to, the debate about pitch counts and Vinay Kumar examines the early days of Depo's reign in L.A..

_Jordan - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#45833) #

As Paul Gleason should have said in The Breakfast Club, "Shut your hole, Wang Chung."

Tom gets ten million points and today's Muppet:

Pistol - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#45834) #

A fabulous no-prize to the first Bauxite who can figure out who the Sickly Six are.

Cairo
Sturtze
Proctor
Wilson
Flaherty (or is someone else the backup catcher?)

There's another young reliever I can't think of.

Pistol - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 09:48 AM EDT (#45835) #

Ok, I cheat...

Heredia
Crosby

Which gets me to 7. Which one of those 7 WAS an All Star?

_Spicol - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 09:52 AM EDT (#45836) #

Steve Treder has written an excellent article on pitch counts over at The Hardball Times.

A lot has been published on the subject in the last few years so we're fortunate to be well educated, but each article seems to take an opposite pole stance on the issue. Physiologically, every single specimen of human is different so it seems possible, even likely, to me that there are some pitchers for whom the Pinella model (pitch 'em till they swell up) works best and there are some pitchers who would perform better under the Beane model of pitcher conservation. The real science is in figuring out which player is which.

_Spicol - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#45837) #

Sorry Gwyn...should have read before posting.

Craig B - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#45838) #

What about Bret Prinz?

_Daryn - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#45839) #

Woodward has basically been handed SS 3 years in a row and played himself out of the line-up...

I like him as a backup 3B/SS, but third after Gomez and Menechino..

Sorry Chris, I like you, but its not happening..

_R Billie - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#45840) #

Of course every pitcher is different, just as every track athlete can run different distances before tiring and every weightlifter can do so many reps before tiring. Then you have to add in other variables like how well rested the guy is that day, has he fed himself in a way that will keep up his endurance, is his control off causing his pitches per batter and inning to mount quickly leading to more work before the end of an inning.

There's so much to consider that for an organization that has to track 11 or 12 pitchers at the major league level and a similar number for each team in the minor leagues, it's easier just to set a baseline and tinker with it based on how the game unfolds. If a guy is breezing without any visible fatigue then let him go for 120 pitches. If he's labouring and struggles to get through the first 4 innings you may have to pull him after 85 pitches.

What I really like about pitch counts though is that it forces pitchers to develop a game plan based on retiring batters efficiently. Less nibbling, fewer walks, which usually leads to better long term results. If a guy doesn't develop a mindset of resolving at bats quickly then he's more likely to waste a lot of energy and have to be pulled early anyway.

_R Billie - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#45841) #

On Woodward, I do think he's gotten a bit of a raw deal. Yeah he didn't hit terribly well once he came off injury but we also have a cleanup hitter who has yet to break .250 on the season. Unlike Gomez, Woodward has significant power which this team is lacking. Unlike Gomez, even a mildly successful Woodward has some trade value; people are always looking for shortstops or infield depth. Woodward's first step and defensive instincts may be his biggest sore point. His bat isn't a question mark though and it is above average for a shortstop.

He's going to probably be cut loose at season's end rather than be offered arbitration which would be a shame for a guy who can put a .750-.800 ops from shortstop and probably won't cost much on the open market. He is making around $800K though so that's probably money the Jays could put towards something else if they give Russ Adams playing time next year.

_Spicol - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#45842) #

There's so much to consider that for an organization that has to track 11 or 12 pitchers at the major league level and a similar number for each team in the minor leagues, it's easier just to set a baseline and tinker with it based on how the game unfolds.

Sure, that's reasonable to tinker based on the situation, but there are cases where organizations seem to be turning this baseline into a strict philisophy and are reluctant to stray far from it or make individual exceptions. If teams truly want to do their best to avoid injuries and still maximize performance, there would be no baseline - there would be a greater effort to understand each individual pitcher's appropriate level of use. It wouldn't be easy, like you say, but since when was choosing what is easiest the smart way to run an organization?

Named For Hank - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#45843) #

What about Bret Prinz?

The NY media is not picking up the fact that he hides in the tunnel during God Bless America.

Jason Bay is coming up on the Fan 590 later this morning.

_Cristian - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#45844) #

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page3/story?page=songs/bluejays
The best thing about not playing Chris Woodward? Not having to suffer his horrible at-bat music. COMN

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#45845) #

Hijack:

I'd like to continue yesterday's discussion of fielding stats.

Has anyone noticed that all putouts are not equal? Some of them are unassisted, while others required the assistance of another fielder. So a stat like range factor which adds the two together ends up double counting the contributions of a fielder. I.E. if you add up putouts and assists, you'll get more outs than actually happened in reality.

To correctly assess what's going on out there, it makes sense to invent a stat which accounts for this. Call it Putout Shares (PS).

1 assist = 0.5 PS
1 assisted putout = 0.5 PS
1 unassisted putout = 1.0 PS

One could also play with the fractions in assists and assisted putouts. Since catching the ball is far easier than fielding and throwing the ball, it might be more like 2/3 and 1/3.

Do modern defensive stats attempt to account for this?

And Robert, sorry for being snippy with you yesterday. I thought you were being a bit of a Prima Donna (and probably deserved it) but I can learn more from talking with you than I can from sniping at you.

Cheers,

jc

_Keith Talent - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#45846) #

Chris Gomez has capitalized on his chances. When you look at the Blue Jay character wins this season, it seems Gomez is a huge part of all of them. He's a real impact player and his defence is solid.

That said: Griffin is right. Woodward did get hosed. He really was never given a fair shake after the injury. But, that's life. Woodward got injured, and Gomez came in and was effective right away. Woodward had to come back, be effective right away to steal his job back (he's only been on the team a few years, the job is far from belonging to him, he still needs to earn it every day). It's tough being a marginal player, you can lose your job very easily.

But, do you think had Woodward been trotted out there everyday like Hinske, he too would have returned to form?

That's a shaky left side of the infield: Hinske and Woodward.

_Rob - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#45847) #

Looks like Gleeman isn't happy with someone's defense:
If I see one more bloop single fall in front of Stewart or one more double shoot by him on its way to the gap, I think I might punch my TV, and that's not good for anyone.

Ah, the memories that brings back.

_Ryan Day - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#45848) #

Woodward was just crushing the ball prior to being injured. He came back from the DL, played poorly in 8 games, and hasn't started more than twice in a row since.

Just by way of comparison, Hinske was utterly awful for the first two months of the season - to say nothing of most of 2003 - but I don't believe there was every any question of losing his job.

_A - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#45849) #

The Star's continued pestering of Toronto's Public Works department has focused on the baseball diamonds at Trinity-Bellwoods. Essentially the residence that border the park's western edge are sick of being invaded by stray baseballs and would like a fence to protect their windows, cars and children. I've played more than a couple ball games there and, while not admitting any liability (meh, someone could sue me but taking all of nothing is a pretty pointless venture), I've certainly been a party to many incidents that could have been avoided if there were a longer, higher fence.

If you have a moment, let Don Boyle, south district director, parks and recreation department (416-392-7252, dboyle@Toronto.ca) know you'd like to see this improvement made. If baseball clubs can't maintain support in their communities, it will be impossible to continue to grow the sport at the grassroots level.

_superdevin - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#45850) #

i think the yankees have 8 guys on the active roster that were never all-stars and 17 that were. then they have 2 on the DL that were formerly all-stars (giambi and mussina).

_Keith Talent - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#45851) #

I agree with you Ryan. And that stance was part of my anti-Tosca crusade. I've softened on that stance a little seeing how Gomez has consistently performed.

_Loveshack - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#45852) #

If Woodward had been trotted out there everyday like Hinske, then Griffin would have written a column about how the Jays keep giving these lame ducks at bats just because they're young, when there are better veteran options available (ie Gomez) that they would use if they were at all serious about winning. Then he would have gone into a rant about how bad a GM JP is and how Moneyball doesn't work. ;)

_Loveshack - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#45853) #

As for Hinske not being benched earlier in the season, Im probably remembering incorrectly, but could it have been because when Hinske was playing so poorly guys like O-Dog, Delgado and Woodward were already injured? If Gomez and Menechino are already covering for other guys and you've got a Berg/Clark platoon going at first then that might explain why Hinske was never benched. He played because he was available.

Named For Hank - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#45854) #

Chris Gomez has capitalized on his chances. When you look at the Blue Jay character wins this season, it seems Gomez is a huge part of all of them. He's a real impact player and his defence is solid.

It's because of the phone, where they can text message him what to do before each at-bat.

(For those of you who haven't seen the in-game commercial at the Dome, they show footage of Gomez warming up in the on-deck circle and his phone rings. He opens it, and there's a text message that reads GOMEZ HIT GRAND SLAM NOW. He sighs and closes the phone, then they cut to the footage of him hitting that grand slam earlier in the season.)

_Keith Talent - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#45855) #

That's cheesy advertising at it's best! Love it! Especially the phony crowd in the background: shameless, beautiful. I'm a big fan of cheesy ads. I wanna shoot myself each time I see the Roy Halladay one up there: "When I take the mound there's only one thing on my mind..." Halladay: there's a guy they should just have skimming rocks of water or opening a flip-phone - no lines for you, Roy!

Thomas - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#45856) #

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page3/story?page=songs/athletics
Glad to see Barry Zito's got his priorities straight. It does suck when they screw up your music.

_Ducey - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#45857) #

I am just guessing, but I think Woodward never got back to full time because he has a tendancy to play streaky defence and a rep for booting routine plays. I also recall some indication this year that JP thought he was soft or not a character guy. I think that is why they picked up Gomez in the first place.

As for Hinske, he was stuggling at the plate but was playing solid D and evidently trying very hard. They also did not have any other options.

It seems to me that JP has put a real emphasis on drafting and getting hard nosed, character guys who are not afraid to get dirty. Hinske seems to fit this mold, Woodward, for whatever reason, seems not to.

Thomas - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#45858) #

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page3/story?page=songs/padres
Browsing around at-bat songs is fun.

I'm not sure if I now like Peavy more or less, but I think more. Adam Eaton has the same song as Reed Johnson, and who can argue with a good dose of Low Rider every time they step to the plate.

_Daryn - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#45859) #

JP has put a real emphasis on drafting and getting hard nosed,

He does.. but "hard nosed" isn't the right word... its "Dirt Face", "Dirt bag"? something combination like that...(not likely nose-bag)

P.S. sorry about that "nose-bag" line, silly things like that make me giggle

_vic - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#45860) #

isn't it ironic that jp gets upset when orlando called him a "pimp", but is perfectly secure calling other players "dirtbags"? maybe its just me.

hinske has gotten much better in the last 2 mnoths of the season. i think he is coming back to form slowly but surely.

Thomas - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#45861) #

I don't think it's ironic at all. There is a very real negative connotation to the word pimp. Even if you were using it in a positive sense to describe someone, there are unavoidable images associated with the word. A hard-nosed dirtbag, especially when it is being used to refer to a baseball player, has a specific positive connotation. I don't see any sort of double-standard.

_Daryn - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:03 PM EDT (#45862) #

Given the prevalence of Jays participation at the Olympics, would it be too much to ask the research genuises here to keep an eye out for Olympic Team information in the round-up over the next 3 or 4 weeks?

_Daryn - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#45863) #

A hard-nosed dirtbag, especially when it is being used to refer to a baseball player, has a specific positive connotation.

You are correct Thomas, it does,... Orlando used a phrase that JP didn;t like and JP excerised his right to object... THAT defines it as it objectionable....

in the case of Dirt-bag, as well as being one of "JP's kind of guys" it also means at least one other thing, I suppose, that being a very dirty bag... and JP would be in a tough spot if someone (one of his players) came out and said, "I'm really uncomfortable being called that"...

_Daryn - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:09 PM EDT (#45864) #

not that I expect it to happen... so I think he's safe,

but its a thought...
we used to think some words were just fine that are considered pretty bad today, and this is how they change.

Thomas - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#45865) #

Does anyone have Bud Selig's registration info for the LA Times?

I agree that Woody is getting somewhat of a raw deal, and I like him because of his always-friendly attitude with fans and what he gives back to the community.

That being said, I don't know what he's like in the clubhouse, and maybe Gomez is a more positve influence. Woodward ahs failed to approach his 2002 level, and while inconsistent playing time may factor into there slightly, he certainly played himself out of the job in 2003. Gomez doesn't have Woodward's power, but he brings a better glove that Woodward does. He also appears to be more focused and consistent than Woodward, as well as fit into the character mold JP seems to emphasise.

The reality is that he's on his way out with our young guys coming up. Gomez seems better suited to play starter until June, and than backup/tutor to Adams after the ASB than Woodward does, and that has to factor into the decision as well.

_vic - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#45866) #

thomas wrote: I don't think it's ironic at all. There is a very real negative connotation to the word pimp. Even if you were using it in a positive sense to describe someone, there are unavoidable images associated with the word. A hard-nosed dirtbag, especially when it is being used to refer to a baseball player, has a specific positive connotation. I don't see any sort of double-standard. ///////

i found one definion when i put dirtbag on google, and it was; A filthy or vile person.

maybe i'm showing my age or maybe not, but when i was growing up, dirtbag was an insult. i'm sure if you ask any person who is unfamiliar with jp's definion of the word what dirtbag means, they'll give you an answer similar to the definion that i found above.

i think it's very ironic. to hudson, the word pimp is a compliment and to jp the word dirtbag is an compliment. why is one wrong and not the other? both have negative connotations. there is clearly a double standard there.

_Rob - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#45867) #

Speaking of Barry Zito, I was watching TV the other day and he was on some show with Chris Isaak.
After checking IMDb, I found it to be "The Chris Isaak Show" (so that part of the mystery is solved) but does anyone know:
a) what "The Chris Isaak Show" is? I've never heard of it before.
b) why Zito was a guest star on this show. Just for fun?

_Four Seamer - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#45868) #

a) what "The Chris Isaak Show" is? I've never heard of it before.
b) why Zito was a guest star on this show. Just for fun?

The Chris Isaak show is a show starring, well, Chris Isaak, who plays a slightly-fictionalized version of himself. I think some of his bandmates also appear as themselves, although they have added a few professional actors to round out the cast as part of his band (you may remember the guy who plays the keys from the great Paul Gross/Leslie Nielsen curling film Men With Brooms, but then again you may not). It's been on Showtime in the States, and MuchMoreMusic in Canada, for about the last three years. No more episodes are being shut.

Typically, they have guest stars, who appear as themselves. I haven't seen the Barry Zito episode, but I imagine as a musician, he considered it a bit of a lark.

_GregH - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#45869) #

i found one definion when i put dirtbag on google, and it was; A filthy or vile person.

JP has never called anyone a "dirtbag". He has called players "dirtbaggers" starting, I believe, last year in reference to Sparky.

I'm old enough to remember this term being applied to ball players and meaning nothing more than a player, perhaps not the most talented, who hustled all the time and was not afraid to get dirty around the bags or do anything they could to help the team.

I met Reed Johnson at one of the car dealership autograph sessions last year right after JP had called him a dirtbagger, and he was quite complimented by the description.

I always tell my (8 & 9 year-old) sons to be dirtbaggers when they are playing.

_Four Seamer - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#45870) #

i think it's very ironic. to hudson, the word pimp is a compliment and to jp the word dirtbag is an compliment. why is one wrong and not the other? both have negative connotations. there is clearly a double standard there.

Primarily, one is wrong and not the other because 'dirtbag' is obviously a term with a baseball-specific connotation and 'pimp' has only one common usage.

I also strongly doubt that JP took it as direct insult. The context of Hudson's remark makes clear that it was meant as a compliment, however curious, and given that JP spends a lot of time in the company of professional athletes, I'm sure he's familiar with the word's 'positive' connotations. What he objected to, IIRC, was what it reflected about Hudson's attitude towards his employers and the pecking order of a major league team. Specifically, it suggested a lack of familiarity with the prevailing view that a young ballplayer earns his stripes in the majors before he begins to be so chatty with the media about his teammates, his manager and his general manager. He wasn't sent to the minors for using derogatory language (there would hardly be any big leaguers at all if that were the case); he was sent back down because he needed to mature a little more intellectually. By all accounts, he's done that splendidly, and I'm sure he's a very positive force in the clubhouse.

_Spicol - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#45871) #

maybe i'm showing my age or maybe not, but when i was growing up, dirtbag was an insult.

You have to consider the context. If a coworker calls me a dirtbag about some way I did my job, that might be reason to swing. If a teammate on my baseball team calls me a dirtbag, I consider it a compliment and feel like Craig Biggio. Then I probably spit.

_Scott Levy - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#45872) #

Woodward has had almost 1000 major league at bats, and his career line is .251-.303-.410-.713. Expecting anything more than that from him is wishful thinking, IMHO. Factoring in his defense which is mediocre abd his propensity of getting hurt, it's clear that he may not be suited for a starting role. He's been given the starting job for two straight years, and lost it both times to veterans who simply outplayed him. That should tell you something.

_Rob - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#45873) #

Thanks, Four Seamer. It was rather odd to flip around the channels at 1:30 AM and find Barry Zito fending off some woman's advances in her apartment, claiming "I don't do that the night before I pitch."
Then he was playing guitar and singing, and he was rather good.

_Ryan01 - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#45874) #

he was sent back down because he needed to mature a little more intellectually.

Well, that and to start hitting. He was 0 for 16 that spring in the big league camp.

_Rich - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#45875) #

I know this has been suggested elsewhere before, but is it possible that a pitcher's innings total may take more of a toll than then number of pitches he throws? The idea being that cooling down and having to warm up again is just as taxing if not more so than simply throwing a lot of pitches.

For example, Doc was extremely efficient with his pitches last season, and was far down on BP's Pitcher Abuse Points chart, but he did throw an awful lot of innings and perhaps this has contributed to his arm woes this season. Hentgen was never really the same pitcher after his 265 inning season (although he was decent for 1 more year if memory serves), but I have no idea what his pitch counts were like then. Thoughts?

robertdudek - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#45876) #

There is a very strong correlation between pitches thrown and innings pitched. If studies find that pitches thrown does not lead to significant increase of injury, then IP totals will almost certainly show the same.

_Willy - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#45877) #

What I want to know is whatever happened to "Hank" as a baseball name? (It's faded only marginally less markedly than "Willie".) In the '40's and '50's "Hank" was all over the place--Sauer, Bauer, Borowy, Majeski, Thomson, Edwards, Greenberg, Gowdy, Schenz, Foiles, and the guy NFH is N after are ones I can recall at present. Except for Blaylock, are there any Hanks around today? How many Willies? Inquiring minds want to know.

_Marc - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#45878) #

why Zito was a guest star on this show. Just for fun?

Zito has appeared on a number of shows in the past including an episode of JAG, where he played a... pitcher... charged with assault after a vicious beanball.

Incidentally, one of the stars on JAG, John Jackson, has a son by the name of Conor. You might recognize him as one of the top prospects in the Diamondbacks' organization and former first round pick.

_Useless Tyler - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:11 PM EDT (#45879) #

(For those of you who haven't seen the in-game commercial at the Dome, they show footage of Gomez warming up in the on-deck circle and his phone rings. He opens it, and there's a text message that reads GOMEZ HIT GRAND SLAM NOW. He sighs and closes the phone, then they cut to the footage of him hitting that grand slam earlier in the season.)

Best commercial ever.

It's especially fun to continuously yell "Gomez hit grand slam now" whenever he gets up to bat, regardless of how many people are on base.

But less fun when he came up to bat with the bases loaded and did not gomez hit grand slam now.

Anybody have Carlos Delgado's cell phone number?

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#45880) #

Incidentally, one of the stars on JAG, John Jackson, has a son by the name of Conor. You might recognize him as one of the top prospects in the Diamondbacks' organization and former first round pick.

Conor Jackson and Aaron Hill will always be paired in my mind because the Jays passed on Jackson in order pick Hill in 2003.

It should be interesting seeing who has the better career. My money is on Jackson. When given choice of drafting the better hitter or the more "complete" player, I'm prefer the hitter. JP has a different philosophy, and prefers to take guys at "premium positions" instead.

_Daryn - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#45881) #

Wily Mo Pena,
Willie Canate (ok a stretch might as well count Willie Upshaw)

I can't think of any other active ones but Wily Mo.

_6-4-3 - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#45882) #

According the baseball-reference.com , there have been 57 Hanks in the MLB. Blalock is the only current Hank (unless there've been some minor league Hanks called up). Of the 57 Hanks, 10 were all-stars, 2 were Hall of Famers.

There've been 53 Willies, including 11 all-stars and 5 hall of famers. 2 Willies are active, including Willie Harris and Willie Mo Pena.

_Wunderbat - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#45883) #

When it comes to baseball commercials that are so bad they become good, one has to mention Chris Woodward's Bad Boy commercial. I can't even remember the particular product, all I can remember is Woodward saying "I'll take two", and then doing the two out symbol with his hand. Hilarious.

As for the name Hank Blalock, I love that name because it oozes All-American. The first time I heard that name, I automically associated it with one of those high-school or collegiate letterman jackets. For example, if a new movie came out entitled Breakfast Club 2, the captain of the football/baseball/basketball team that went to state should be named Hank Blalock.

_Jobu - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#45884) #

Why did ESPN get so skimpy on the entrance music. I can think of a bunch more off the top of my head.

Berg comes out Pearl Jam (id make a joke about at least theres one redeaming factor about seeing him come up to bat, but I'll lay off due to yesterdays result.

Howie Clark has No One Knows I believe. Great to clap along with.

Orlando has that song that starts with dogs barking.

I think Phelps had When the Levee Breaks and China Grove. Great calls.

I like how Cat selects specificaly the "swirly guitar part" in Bodies by Drowning Pool. So much frenzied anger for such a calm looking guy. Just dont tell his teammates not to watch TV.

Zaun and Cash escape me right now, as does Rios (does he even have any?)

Carlos has that spanish rap.

If anyone one wants to fill in what I missed I also cant think of Gomez, Mighty Mouse and david bush

Named For Hank - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#45885) #

Named For Hank - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#45886) #

I took a non-baseball person to a game last year, and he decided that Cat was his favourite player because he got to hear the "oo-ah-ah-ah-ah" song every time Cat came to the plate.

_Willy - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#45887) #

They referred to the mighty Hank as Henry Aaron every single time they talked about him during the Home Run Derby, only calling him Hammerin' Hank once or twice either before or after saying "Henry". Does he prefer Henry?

Henry Aaron probably does prefer "Henry", but he used to get called "Hank" (as well as "Henry") in his playing days. (Thanks to 6-4-3 for the details on the two names. I'll have to check the MLB site. I'm curious to know who the All-Star Hanks were.)

_Magpie - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#45888) #

I've said it before - Carlos needs that Nelly music that he walked to the plate with in 2003.

Nobody talks much about the pitchers - they play the pitcher's usic before the top of the first inning. The Jays run onto the field, Murray Eldon calls them by name, and the pitcher's music plays.

Jack Morris was "Jumpin' Jack Flash"

Al Leiter was "Rosalita" (he's from Jersey, OK)

Dave Stieb was some screaming heavy metal, but I don't remember what...

_Magpie - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#45889) #

The pitcher's "usic?"

I made up a new word.

By the way, I agree about Frasor. I think he and Vinnie may be returning to more realistic levels of performance.

Of course, it's possible that so is J Speier, which would be good news.

_6-4-3 - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#45890) #

Stadium music: for a long time at the beginning of the season, I Had a theory that Carlos was slumping because he had forsaken "Hot in Here".

Fun with names: It being a slow day, I searched Baseball Reference, and immediately discovered why I had no chance at a major league career. In this history of major league baseball, there has only been one "Zachary" to make it big, and that just so happens to be Zachary Taylor, a 1B on the 1874 Baltimore Canaries. Career line: 13 games, 48 AB, 12 hits, 3 runs, 3 RBIs. It doesn't get much better if I change it to Zach. I got Zach Crouch (3 games, 1.3 innings 6.75 ERA for the 1988 Red Sox), Zach Monroe (54 games, 3.38 ERA for the 1958 / 1959 Yankees), Zach Sorensen (36 games, 37 AB, .135 average, and (wahoo) one home run. If it wasn't for Zach Day, there'd be no Zach / Zachary who'd lasted more than two years.

Someone should've mentioned this to me 12 years ago, it would've saved me some grief.

_Jobu - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#45891) #

I think Frasor needs some good appearance music, any ideas? Nothings better than a closer with a good gimmick and entrance. Although playing the theme from "Frasier" doesnt exactly inspire fear in opposing batters. Ah nuts to this, this is too hard. Just have him driven down to the ring in one of those 1M by 1M rings the WWF had in the 80s and play the old undertaker song.

_Paul D - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#45892) #

I think Frasor should come out to Blind by Korn.

_Jobu - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#45893) #

Any particular reason, or you just like the song?

_Marc - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#45894) #

I think Frasor should come out to Get Loose by the Salads, since pitchers come out and do some pratice throws to "get loose." Plus their a Toronto-based band and the leader singer is a good friend of mine (always the ulterior motive). And hey, if it was good enough to be in the movie Eurotrip...

_Paul D - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#45895) #

I just think that would be a good song for a closer. Since Hell's Bells is already taken, you need something that starts out slow and will warm the crowd up. Blind starts out with a quiet tapping on some cymbols, adds two guitars, and then screams "Are You Ready!?"

I can see the crowd going crazy when they hear that little cymbol part, cause that means the game is over.

Then it could end and Frason could shut the door.

_Jobu - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#45896) #

_James W - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#45897) #

Frank Menechino uses "Times Like These" by Foo Fighters. Not for every plate appearance, but for most, IIRC.

_Jobu - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#45898) #

Well, I'm off to work now, so I wont be able to see the replys to this post till midnight or so, but any cheer clubbers or cheer drummers planing to be in attendance for thursday mornings game? I plan to be. ON ON BLUE JAYS!!!

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#45899) #

Speaking of Eurotrip, I was surprised to find out that "Frommers Travel Guides" really do exist(inside movie joke). I laughed for 2 minutes when I saw it, when my friends and I were looking for travel books for our upcomming trip to montreal. I want so desperatly to buy it just so I can annoy them the whole trip by peroidicaly opening the book, saying "oh here's a fun fact" and then insulting them.

Great movie.

After seeing it, I was gripped with a strange urge to drink orange juice and visit Bratislava.

For those who haven't seen it, think "American Pie". But a little more subversive. It also has a hilarious Matt Damon cameo (he's barely recognizable).

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#45900) #

Somebody uses (or used to use) "Nobody Knows" by Queen's of the Stone Age. Maybe Cash or Sparky?

jc

_Ryan01 - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#45901) #

I'm pretty sure it's Sparky that uses Queen's of the Stone Age.

Named For Hank - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#45902) #

It was Sparky.

_Smack - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#45903) #

Scotty Doesn't Know
lol that should be Rios song whenever he faces a new Pitcher named Scott.

btw does Matt Damon actually have a band?

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#45904) #

http://www.eagletribune.com/news/stories/20040215/LI_002.htm

btw does Matt Damon actually have a band?

Not sure.

However, Scotty Doesn't Know was written by New England punk band Lustra. COMN.

P.S. I love google.

_Andrew Ward - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#45905) #

How about "Barracuda" for Frasor?
God, I feel old reading the posts with music references I've never even heard of!

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:50 PM EDT (#45906) #

Somebody ought to use "Take Me Out" by Franz Ferdinand.

So far, it's the best song I've heard in 2004 (might be the best song I've heard this decade...)

_G.T. - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#45907) #

Nobody talks much about the pitchers

Relief pitchers, though, do get noticed. I'm not sure which is cooler, Trevor Hoffman coming out to "Hells Bells", or Gagne's "Welcome To The Jungle". Probably the former, since I'll always associate the latter with Mark McGwire striding to the plate, and the accompanying thousands of flashbulbs.

The days of my going to a dozen Jay games a year are in the past, but I do still remember some of the early 90's "themes":

Henke: Space Oddity ("Ground control to Major Tom")
Eichhorn: Ice Ice Baby
Cone: Ice Cream Man
Timlin: Rock You Like a Hurricane
Hall: Margaritaville

Olerud: Tall Cool One/You Can Leave Your Hat On
Sprague: Rock'n Me/Down On the Corner
Alomar: Guns In The Sky

Of course, nobody will ever top the Christian Rock song Tony Fernandez used in his last stint...

_Ryan Day - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#45908) #

Frasor needs to come in to the chorus of "Devil's Workday" by Modest Mouse.

_Andrew Ward - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#45909) #

Oh, to have some of Tony's clutch hitting (and SS defence, come to think of it).

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#45910) #

Does Mariano Rivera still use "Ender Sandman" by Metallica? I always thought that was very appropriate...

Other good closer music possibilities:

"Crazy Train" by Sabbath
"Rock of Ages" by Def Leppard

I find it strange that can't think of anything from the past 15 years that might strike fear into the heard of the opposition. Maybe something by Ministry (N.W.O.) or Soundgarden (Rusty Cage)?

Any other ideas? I get the sense that alternative rock really is that wimpy...

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#45911) #

Uh yeah, replace "heard" with "hearts" and my last post might make a little more sense...

It's been a freudian day (in a Jeses Christ Post kinda way).

Thomas - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#45912) #

Larry Walker, I beleive, uses "Crazy Train" by Ozzy. I've never seen the necessity to use hard rock myself, but maybe that's just me.

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 05:32 PM EDT (#45913) #

I've never seen the necessity to use hard rock myself, but maybe that's just me.

The closer is supposed to intimidate the opposing hitters, yes?

I can't imagine that coming in to "Love Fool" by the Cardigans would be effective for setting the mood. Hell, even the opposing batters would probably complain :)

Hmmmmmm (he says while stroking beard), reverse psychology through music...

Joe - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#45914) #

http://me.woot.net
Music hijack:

I cannot get enough of E.S. Posthumus, an electronic/world/classical fusion I discovered on CD Baby last night. It's the sort of music you hear in movie trailers, or during epic parts of television shows, and it's awesome. I highly suggest checking out the free streaming samples CD Baby has up for them.

Joe - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#45915) #

http://me.woot.net
Oh, and I personally vote for somebody—anybody—to use the song "Wonderboy" by Tenacious D for his rookie season.

_Cristian - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#45916) #

Somebody ought to use "Take Me Out" by Franz Ferdinand. So far, it's the best song I've heard in 2004 (might be the best song I've heard this decade...)

I second this.

_Ryan Day - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#45917) #

Oh, pshaw. "Take Me Out" isn't even the best song on that album.

(the answer is "Jacqueline", "Matinee" or "Darts of Pleasure", in case you're wondering.)

_Cristian - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 07:10 PM EDT (#45918) #

Oh, pshaw. "Take Me Out" isn't even the best song on that album.

In order to spread the word on Franz Ferdinand I'm willing to keep my discussion to songs that are getting airplay. There isn't a bad song on the album but in my opinion, Take Me Out is better than the three you mentioned--although the intro to Jacqueline is incredibly clever (I know I've been in THAT situation before so the intro makes me chuckle every time). My personal fave though has to be Auf Asche. I really can't get over how good the band is. It's danceable britpop with Jarvis Cocker-like lyrics. Absolutely brilliant.

_Ryan Day - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 07:22 PM EDT (#45919) #

Actually, I'd say "Tell Her Tonight" is a bad song. It's the one I always skip, anyway.

I like just about everything else. "Cheating on You" is fun.

_Ducey - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#45920) #

Hijack: TSN just reported that Chris Woodward has demanded a trade due to lack of playing time.

Can't say I blame him, the writing is on the wall in TO. But, "Hey Chrissypoo" did you notice the trade deadline was LAST week?

I guess he is already thinking ahead to the offseason but why wouldn't he just shut his yap, hope Gomez gets hit by a parasite or two and maybe get some playing time. He could then demand the trade in the offseason.

_Ken - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 07:33 PM EDT (#45921) #

I know it's all in good fun, but I can't say I enjoyed 'Eurotrip' as much as some of you. The stereotyping of europeans was pretty unbareable, it may go down well in NA but in europe I can't say people appreciated it. Now if they could try again and make something that made me laugh as much as 'Old School'....now that was a funny film!

Thomas - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#45922) #

But doesn't hard rock psyche up the opposing hitters just as much as it would you? I mean, I don't see how in a 1-0 game that Take Me Out or whatever would fail to effect Jayson Werth, as Scott Elarton steps in to shut the door. In a purely hypothetical situation.

Not that I mind at all that they use it, and it's a neat gimmick. But it's a two-way street.

_GregH - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#45923) #

TSN just reported that Chris Woodward has demanded a trade due to lack of playing time.

JP on The Fan 590 with Mike Wilner has just completely denied that Woodward has asked him about a trade.

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:49 PM EDT (#45924) #

Not that I mind at all that they use it, and it's a neat gimmick. But it's a two-way street.

Hence the clever use of girlie cardigans music to psyche _down_ the opposing hitters!

Depressing music like Joy Division could also be effective...

Oh, pshaw. "Take Me Out" isn't even the best song on that album.

Ok, I really need to get myself a copy of the Franz Ferdinand CD. Modest Mouse as well. I've been rather lazy in my music buying in the last 4 months.

Is "Absolution" by Muse also worth buying? Someone on All-Baseball.com was gushing about it recently so it ended up in my amazon shopping cart.

I also have most of the Matthew Good back catalogue in because the discs are so damn cheap (9.99). Speaking of which, is it worth buying the new Matthew Good CD? I hear he's rocking out more these days after a few rather morose efforts.

_6-4-3 - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 01:59 AM EDT (#45925) #

Yes, I liked White Light Rock and Roll Review a lot more than Avalanche. I found that a lot of Avalanche's tracks were too long, but WLR+RR's tracks are shorter and faster. Great stuff, IMO.

I also got Last of the Ghetto Astronauts, which completed my Matthew Good collection, and made me a happy, happy man.

_Cristian - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 02:56 AM EDT (#45926) #

http://www.muse.mu/
Is "Absolution" by Muse also worth buying?

Muse is what Radiohead would have been if Radiohead had followed The Bends with more good alternarock. However, after being branded geniuses by the music industry, Radiohead has shifted into uninspired experimental albums. The members of Radiohead now just laugh, count their money, and wonder how much crap they can put out without critics calling them on it. Absolution isn't as good as The Bends but it's the next best thing to throttling Thom Yorke and forcing him to make good music again. That said, Muse's lead singer has an annoying habit of audibly inhaling before belting out his lyrics. COMN for Muse's website. It's got enough media goodies that will let you know whether the album is worth purchasing.

_Cristian - Thursday, August 05 2004 @ 03:07 AM EDT (#45927) #

Following up on Muse:
Going to their website for the first time in a few months, I notice that they've made their videos available in streaming format. The video for Sing for Absolution is new and it's their first big budget video. It's pretty cool and worth checking out--lots of spaceships.

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