Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Minor League Update: August 3

For us Ontarians, today is a Tuesday that feels like a Monday; for the Blue Jay farm, yesterday was a Monday that was a Twosday.

To wit: Two wins, Two losses, and Two off days.

Syracuse – Off Day

Bowie 4 @ New Hampshire 6

The FisherCats struck early and often, scoring 2 – 1 – 1 – 2 in the first 4 innings to beat the Bowie Baysox. They did it in home run style, with SS Aaron Hill, LF John-Ford Griffin, RF Maikel Jova, and C Paul Chiaffredo all going deep. Griffin added a double and a walk to his line, Jova just the double, Hill just the walk.

Brandon League had a good outing, pitching 4 innings as he continues his adjustment back to the starting rotation. League allowed 2 runs on 4 hits (including a round-tripper), striking out 5 and walking 2. Travis Thompson was credited the Win for 3 excellent innings of relief, just 1 hit and 1 walk against 4 Ks.

Boxscore - MinorLeagueBaseball.com.

Dunedin 6 @ Clearwater 11

Consider the Dunedin pitching staff sufficiently Threshed; Neomar Flores, Andy Torres, and Robert Nunley were all very ineffective as Clearwater blew away the Jays early 3-0 lead with a 5-run 4th and a 4-run 7th.

The Dunedin offence was just fine, banging out 4 doubles and a homer among their 10 hits. SS Raul Tablado had 2 of the doubles, while 2B Ryan Roberts tagged the tater and also singled. On defence, the two turned a pair of twin-killings, and Tablado was charged an error.

Boxscore - MinorLeagueBaseball.com.

Charleston 6 @ Charleston 7

As old Barth Grooks said, “It was bound to happen, and one night it did”. The South Atlantic League features two Charlestons, and yesterday they faced off for the first time this season. They fought like cats and dogs, but unfortunately for Blue Jay-followers, the South Carolina squad bested the boys from West Virginia.

The RiverDogs struck the first big blow with a 4-run 4th, leaving Danny Core with a line of 5 earned in 4 innings, 7 hits including 2 home runs, and a 5/3 K/BB. Lefty Brad Mumma was effective in 3 innings of relief, surrendering 3 hits including a solo shot while striking out 3 and walking 1. The Alley Cats made their charge in the 8th, chalking up 3 runs to pull within one, but the Dogs answered back with a run of their own in the bottom of the frame, which meant the Cats 9th inning run went down as too little, too late.

RF Mike Galloway swung the big stick for the Cats, driving in 3 and scoring 2 on the strength of a double and a dinger. 2B Jermy Acey was no slouch out of the 9-hole, with 2 singles and a homer. C Robinson Diaz, DH Joey Reiman, and 3B Eric Arnold all reached base twice, 1B Clint Johnson thrice.

Boxscore - MinorLeagueBaseball.com.

Mahoning Valley 3 @ Auburn 8

Besides their 4-hit leadoff man, the Scrappers weren’t very scrappy yesterday as they ran into the Doubleday Express. Chris Leonard wasn’t in peak form, but good enough for the W with 5 innings of 7-hit 3-walk ball, charged with 1 earned run of three total, while striking out 4. Jayson Rodriguez followed him with 3 lights-out innings of relief; 4 Ks and nary a baserunner.

The Auburn attack featured two hits apiece from CF Aaron Mathews, SS Ryan Klosterman, and 3B Jason Armstrong. 1B Chip Cannon launched the only home run of the night, his 5th of the season. Catcher Curtis Thigpen drove in three while going 1 for 3 with a walk, LF Adam Lind had a single in 4 trips, and Joey Metropoulos was replaced by Cannon after one at-bat. The defence was less than air-tight, with one E each to Armstrong, Klosterman, and RF Jarad Mangioni.

Boxscore - MinorLeagueBaseball.com.

Pulaski – Off Day

Three-Star Selection!

The Third Star: Jayson Rodriguez, Auburn. 9 up 9 down, 4 punchouts.

The Second Star: Mike Galloway, Charleston. Homer, Double, Walk.

The First Star: John-Ford Griffin, New Hampshire. Homer, Double, Walk.

Posted by Jonny German on Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 11:04 AM EDT.

Minor League Update: August 3 | 44 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

_Marc - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#46216) #

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/040802kline1.html
COMN for a cool BA feature as one of their writers gets a first hand lesson on what it is like to live and play in the minor leagues.

_Jordan - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#46217) #

Aaron Hill is just ripping the cover off the ball, and he's adding more power all the time. Triple-A is in the cards for him next year, and if he can handle the advanced pitching there, the Jays might actually be able to factor him into their big-league plans sometime in 2005. That's a best-case scenario, but an exciting one.

_Ryan01 - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#46218) #

Hill seems to be settling down defensively too. He was keeping pace with Adams in the error department for most of the year but has been very solid of late. The real test will come next year on the turf in Syracuse but we've heard some good things about his defense from the NH locals. We may have the answer to the long awaited question about who will stay at shortstop as soon as next spring.

Mike Green - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#46219) #

I agree about Hill, but with a little caveat. The ball has been flying out of the park the last couple of weeks, apparently for local climatic reasons. Hence, Josh Banks' 4 homers allowed on Sunday, and yesterdays' 6 homers have to be taken with a little grain of salt.

Mike Green - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#46220) #

While the parent clubs face off at the Skydome tonight, the triple A affiliates battle it out in a doubleheader just down the QEW in Buffalo. Jason Davis and Evan Thomas (!) start for Buffalo while Cam Reimers and Dave Maurer go for the Sky Chiefs. I suspect that more than a few runs might be put on the board.

_Finn McCool - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#46221) #

True the balls have been flying out of the park more frequently, but still you have to measure Josh Banks by his peers not the weather and 10 home runs in 60 innings is too many. Mike Basso the Fisher Cats manager may have the answer to Banks troubles though. Basso speaking on the Fisher Cats pregame show a couple of weeks ago made the comment that Josh Banks needs to work on his fast ball command. It seems that though Banks has no problems getting his fast ball over the plate he is still not hitting his spots and is leaving too many fast balls up over the plate, and Banks is finding out that AA hitter are less prone to missing this ball than single A hitters.

_Marc - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#46222) #

Given the Montreal (Washington) Expos' situation in the NL West I would really like to see them give some promotions to some of their promising youngsters and boot out some of the people simply warming the bench.

Let's see Ryan Church (.345 @ AAA), Macier Izturis (.356 @ AAA), Jon Rauch, Gary Majewski, Brendan Harris and Francis Beltran

Show Mateo, Kim and Calloway the door.

_R Billie - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#46223) #

I guess in Banks' case it's better to throw bad strikes than no strikes at all. It's easier to throw the ball over the plate at lower levels of competition and not be burned as often. He'll get there but I just hope he stays healthy as he's probably going to be in the minors all of 2005. Still, it's shocking how much of a dramatic shift moving to AA has had.

It makes one appreciate how well David Bush has done to get so far so fast. He was drafted as close to a polished product and seems to have instincts for pitch selection that are hard to teach.

_Jordan - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#46224) #

http://theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=41560
COMN for a recent article in the New Hampshire Union-Leader about newest Jay farmhand John Hattig. Thanks to Val for the tip.

Mike Green - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#46225) #

Actually, I'm a little more worried by the dip in Banks' K rate than the home runs. He will give up a homer every 9 or 10 innings, but that's fine if you're striking out 9 and walking 2-3 per 9 IP. We'll see where he is at the end of the season.

Pistol - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#46226) #

Fun with numbers......

Player A in Syracuse this season: .285/.354/.402
Player B in Syracuse this season: .259/.292/.373
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Player A - Russ Adams
Player B - Alexis Rios

_Jdog - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#46227) #

So can somebody tell me what the chances are of seeing JFG in a big league unifrom are. Is ha possible call up this september? Or next september or what? He seems to have some power.

_Nigel - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#46228) #

Pistol - the numbers do make you scratch your head. Missing, of course is prior years. Even adding full 2003 numbers suggests Adams is at the top (to date) of his range offensively, while Rios was seriously underperforming (even by his much more modest 2002 high A numbers).

_Jacko - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#46229) #

So can somebody tell me what the chances are of seeing JFG in a big league unifrom are. Is ha possible call up this september? Or next september or what? He seems to have some power

Doubt he'll be up this September.

Unless he tears the AFL a new one this fall, I predict he'll be sent to AAA to start 2005. If he hits enough, maybe he'll get a midseason callup like Rios did this year? If he keeps hitting like he has for the past few months, he might end up being the long term solution at 1B for the Jays.

Speaking of first base solutions, while Big Vito hasn't exactly set the FSL on fire, he's posted very respectable numbers (44 XBH, 52/92 BB/K). If JFG flames out at AAA, he's not too far behind.

_Finn McCool - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#46230) #

Josh Banks strikeout numbers maybe down but you have to remeber the Jays have asked Banks not to through his big strikeout pitch, his spliter in order to develope his slider and change up. I am just speculating of course but I think you will see Banks strike number increase once the Jays allow him to throw the spliter more often.

Pistol - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#46231) #

So can somebody tell me what the chances are of seeing JFG in a big league unifrom are. Is ha possible call up this september? Or next september or what? He seems to have some power.

There was a Fordin article last week with a JP quote that said something to the effect that JFG would be in NH all season because he'll be in AAA next year.

Pistol - the numbers do make you scratch your head. Missing, of course is prior years.

Yeah, that's why it was 'fun with numbers'. I wasn't trying to imply anything.

Well, except that if Adams is called now up he'll turn into ARod by the end of the year.

_Finn McCool - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#46232) #

Sorry forgot to edit my post what I ment to say was the Jays asked Banks not to throw his spliter :)

_Finn McCool - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#46233) #

Anybody know what's up with Brian Grant, he has missed 3 starts in a row for Pulaski?

_Jacko - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#46234) #

Well, except that if Adams is called now up he'll turn into ARod by the end of the year.

I may be in a minority here, but I believe that Adams has no business starting the 2005 season in the majors.

He needs to:

(a) get stronger and hit for a little more power
(b) get more reliable with his throwing

I don't doubt that he can do both those things, and I don't see any point in rushing him to the majors when the most you'll conceivably get is a 700 OPS and unreliable defense at SS. We have that already (see Woodward, Chris). I would much rather see Adams take a step forward at AAA before promoting him.

So what should the Jays do about the logjam at SS in the high minors in 2005? I think they should hedge their bets and give each of Adams and Hill 50% of the SS playing time at Syracuse. The other half of the time they should be given reps at 2B (Adams) and 3B (Hill). This will let the Jays evaluate them head to head at SS, while at the same time assessing their potential for switching positions. It also gives the Jays the flexbility to trade Orlando Hudson, should the right offer come along.

Hinske's eventual destination (3B -> 1B/DH?) will also be effected by the Jays keeping or trading Hudson.

_R Billie - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#46235) #

Well yeah of course, if you remove his go to pitch from his repetoire then it's not surprising that Banks' numbers are way up. It's kind of a relief to hear that as an explanation actually.

It will be interesting to see how this helps his development, if at all. You'd think it would help sharpen up his other pitches and maybe reduce some strain on the arm as splitters can be tough to throw. Certainly for a starting pitcher you don't want them throwing too many of those in a game. If he can get to the point where he can get by just using the other two pitches then he'll be that much stronger.

_Mike Forbes - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 05:32 PM EDT (#46236) #

I would like to see Hinske move to first but I think Jp's big picture has JFG at first, Adams at second, Hill at shortstop and Hinske still at third with Quiroz behind the plate. The outfield is almost to the point that he wants with Rios, Wells and Gross about to be called up.

_Finn McCool - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#46237) #

You hit the nail on the head R Billie, Banks as good has he is will need more than a fast ball and spliter to succeed in the majors, the jays know that which is why they have Banks to work on his secondary pitches.

robertdudek - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 05:48 PM EDT (#46238) #

Why move Hinske to first when it is now apparent that he's a good third baseman? Watching him play the last two months, and pretending not to know how he played third last year, most everyone would be convinced he's an above average third baseman.

It's one of the most dramatic fielding improvements in a short space of time that I've even seen. Eric Hinske and Brian Butterfield should be loudly commended for their efforts!

_Jacko - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 06:00 PM EDT (#46239) #

Why move Hinske to first when it is now apparent that he's a good third baseman? Watching him play the last two months, and pretending not to know how he played third last year, most everyone would be convinced he's an above average third baseman

Slow down Robert, you're getting ahead of yourself.

To the naked eye, Hinske looks way better this year. And he even leads the majors in fielding percentage. But he's pretty close to the bottom using other, more telling metrics:

FPCT: .987 (1st out of 22, high=.987, low=.930)
RF: 2.42 (20th out of 22, high=3.14, low=2.27)
ZR: .711 (19th out of 22, high=.836, low=.676)
DP: 10 (19th out of 22, high=22, low=8)

Given that he was dead last in pretty well every category in 2002-2003, it's still a remarkable improvement, and a testament to Eric's hard work and the teaching ability of Toronto's coaches.

However, he has a ways to go before we can start calling him above average. Which is why moving him over to 1B to make room for Aaron Hill might eventually be a good idea.

_Jacko - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#46240) #

Do the Jays have a flyball staff this year?

It does seem a little odd that Hinske has only 237 chances so far, while other guys like Rolen and Castilla are up over 300. Though the difference could be explained by:

(a) batters beating out slow throws from Hinske (shows up as a hit, not an error)
(b) Hinkse having worse lateral range
(c) Hinske having worse reaction times (though judging from all the diving stops I've seen this year, this probably isn't true)
(d) Hinske making bad choices about where to throw the ball, once he's fielded it (shows up as a hit, not an error)

_Nigel - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 06:09 PM EDT (#46241) #

I agree with Robert with respect to Hinske. Now that he's improved his fielding, I don't see any reason to move him. On top of that, his offense just doesn't look like returning to his rookie year levels. Given the Jays lack of SLG elsewhere on the diamond, I just don't think the Jays can afford to have a 1B slugging around .400.

robertdudek - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 06:13 PM EDT (#46242) #

RF and DP are completely irrelevant because they have a tendency to mislead. And earlier in the year Hinske was playing poorly: the first two months he was as bad as he was last year.

But the last two months he's been very good. He does everything better than he did before. Unless there is some sort of relapse or cosmic proportions, I expect him to retain his current skills for many years to come. He's solidly average in all aspects of third base play, except one. His reactions on linedrives are well-above average. Perhaps he's a bit slow in starting double plays, but this is a skill tested to the limits only rarely (5-4-3 DPs are fairly uncommon).

When considering a player on a learning curve, defensive metrics, even those that provide some valid information such as ZR, are of limited usefulness. I would not want to place ANY trust in them. The main problem is that with only a few hundred balls going into a third baseman's zone, there is absolutely no assurance that every third baseman is getting an more or less equal mix or tough and easy chances (because of the small sample sizes). The guys with the good ZRs could be the ones fortunate enough to have a lot of easy chances.

_Rob - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 06:24 PM EDT (#46243) #

Is there any truth to my following assumption about Hinske's defense?

Good range, good hands, poor arm. Not poor arm strength or poor accuracy, but I've noticed him double-clutch far too many times for my liking.
I may be wrong, however.

robertdudek - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#46244) #

That's a good assesment, except I'd upgrade arm to "below average" and add above-average reactions. His throws are much much better now than during the first two months. He doesn't throw the ball in the dirt anymore and makes an effort to get his momentum moving towards first base.

_Rob - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 06:51 PM EDT (#46245) #

Hinske's Defense:
Range: B
Hands: C- (changing his double-clutch tendency from "arm" rating to "hands" rating)
Arm: C-
Reaction: B+

The above ratings are based on nothing but my opinion after watching approximately 3191 of his 3192 career innings at third base, with his recent play improving his overall ratings.

Can anyone with Diamond-Mind (or whatever that sim is called) share Hinske's defensive ratings from the latest disk? I wonder how they stack up to an average fan's opinion.

robertdudek - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 06:56 PM EDT (#46246) #

His rating is FR/155, which means his range is fair (on a scale of EX-VG-AV-FR-PR) and (I think) he has a 55% greater than average chance of making an error WRT an average third baseman.

I emphasize that this is his DMB rating for 2003.

_Rob - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#46247) #

His rating is FR/155...I emphasize that this is his DMB rating for 2003.

Meaning that he was considered 55% better than the average 3B last year, and it would only be higher this year, based on our eyewitness accounts?

I never trusted any of the defensive metrics once I figured out how they were calculated, but it is interesting that Vernon Wells is still way above the field in ZR for 2004, save for Aaron Rowand.

robertdudek - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#46248) #

NO - he made 55% more errors than the average 3B. Errors are bad.

_Rob - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#46249) #

Oops, my mistake. I misread "greater than average chance of making an error" as "greater than average chance of making a play." I stand corrected.

Mike Green - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 08:29 PM EDT (#46250) #

The Sky Chiefs finally defeated Buffalo in the opener 3-2. Gabe Gross and Russ Adams were the heroes. Pulaski just put up an 8 spot.

_Smack - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#46251) #

I remember a while back Vernon Wells had wacky good defensive metrics, including a very good zone rating. With catches like the one he just made, I can believe his defence is still underrated, despite being talked about, but have his ratings dropped?

Mike Green - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#46252) #

The best 9th place hitter in the NYPL? Perhaps it's Box favourite Chip Cannon, who went 3-4, with a double and his 6th homer of the short season. He's hitting .307.

_Rob - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#46253) #

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2004&seasonType=2&split=84&sortColumn=zoneRating
I can believe his defence is still underrated, despite being talked about, but have his ratings dropped?

COMN for the wacky stat Vernon was leading in by far earlier this season. He's still got a sizeable lead, .949 to Rowand's .932. Third place Damon (this is only counting CF's) is .903.

_Jonny German - Tuesday, August 03 2004 @ 11:52 PM EDT (#46254) #

On top of that, his offense just doesn't look like returning to his rookie year levels.

I'm solidly in the "keep Hinske at third" camp, but I'm not so sure about this statement. Consider:

Hinske, June 2004: .286 .371 .451
Hinske, July 2004: .317 .345 .490

Hinske, 2002: .279 .365 .481

I say he looks a lot like returning to his rookie levels. We'll have to see if he can keep this up for August and September.

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:40 AM EDT (#46255) #

RF and DP are completely irrelevant because they have a tendency to mislead.

IMO, they are a hell of a lot better than fielding percentage and naked eye observations.

Hinske might have less "fieldable chances" than average because

(a) the Jays' lack of lefthanded pitching (more lefthanded batters)
(b) the Jays being a flyball staff (not really, Batista and Halladay are groundball machines, while this year Towers, Hentgen, and Lilly have been flyball pitchers)
(c) the Jays have a high strikeout rate (nope, they're near the bottom of the league in strikeout rate)
(d) more unfieldable balls (evidence?)

I'm not even sure if (b) is true or not. Or is it the dreaded "astroturf factor" that's distorting things?

Anyhow, if you can cite a few sources that explain how ZR and RF distort things, I'd love to give them a read. I'd also like to know at what point (in your mind) RF and ZR become statistically significant. Because based on what I've read about DIPS, even a bad pitching staff isn't going to give up significantly "sure hits" that a good one.

I've also heard of something from baseball primer called UZR. Is it any better? And do they publish in-season stats?

But the last two months he's been very good. He does everything better than he did before. Unless there is some sort of relapse or cosmic proportions, I expect him to retain his current skills for many years to come. He's solidly average in all aspects of third base play, except one. His reactions on linedrives are well-above average. Perhaps he's a bit slow in starting double plays, but this is a skill tested to the limits only rarely (5-4-3 DPs are fairly uncommon).

For a site that prides itself on backing up observations with stats, I find it pretty shocking to hear someone making a purely subjective evaluation of a player's performance. And not being called on it at all. Using the same subjective criteria, most of the baseball world considers Derek Jeter an excellent defensive shortstop.

Until I see some concrete numbers to back it up, I won't consider Hinske to be an above average defender at 3B. I agree his defense has improved, but I think a lot of people around here are getting totally carried away.

robertdudek - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#46256) #

IMO, they are a hell of a lot better than fielding percentage and naked eye observations.

Fielding percentage I won't touch. But over a short span (anything less than 3 seasons) unbiased direct observation is superior to any fielding metric. RF is just junk - it's inventor (Bill James) has said that it is one of the dumbest ideas he's ever had (or words to that effect). Read Bill James' New Historical Abstract to learn the horrific details.

ZR is a different kettle of fish. But it depends on a somewhat arbitrary definitions of zone which are relatively inflexible (they don't change according to batter-pitcher combination - a fielder would set himself in a different place depending on this). It doesn't differentiate between hard hit balls, soft ones and pop ups (not 100% sure on the last one, but I think that's the case).

And then there are all the park effects.

And then there is the specific case of Eric Hinske - who I claim has improved substantially in the last two months. I can claim this with some certainty because I've watched him play nearly all those games. Two months worth of ZR is almost completely meaningless.

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#46257) #

And then there is the specific case of Eric Hinske - who I claim has improved substantially in the last two months. I can claim this with some certainty because I've watched him play nearly all those games. Two months worth of ZR is almost completely meaningless

This is fine, but what you can't claim is watching the other 29 3B in the majors enough to see how Hinske stacks up against them. That's why we have stats, right?

He's improved relative to the 2002-2003 version, sure. Without some stats to compare him against his peers, it's irresponsible to use the term "above average".

robertdudek - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:06 PM EDT (#46258) #

This is fine, but what you can't claim is watching the other 29 3B in the majors enough to see how Hinske stacks up against them. That's why we have stats, right?

Yes I can. I've seen most other regular 3Bs in the majors play at some point over the past year and a half (thank you Extra Innings and MLB.TV) - in almost all cases dozens of games. If I aggregate that experience together, it amounts to a very good feel for what the average 3B is capable of.

There are about 7-10 third baseman that are better than the rest, but Hinske (the way he's played the last two months) is solidly in the next group.

_Jacko - Wednesday, August 04 2004 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#46259) #

Yes I can. I've seen most other regular 3Bs in the majors play at some point over the past year and a half (thank you Extra Innings and MLB.TV) - in almost all cases dozens of games. If I aggregate that experience together, it amounts to a very good feel for what the average 3B is capable of.

Fair enough.

FWIW, I am coming around to your POV a little bit. Just from going through the numbers from the past few years, I can see a couple weird distortions in ZR and RF for 3B:

- Hinske putting up better numbers in 2002 than in 2004
- Joe Crede being ranked very low when his number one tool coming out of the minors was supposedly defense

If you've got the time, there's probably an good Hardball Times or BB article in here...where exactly does Hinske stack up?

Also, can you have look at the roundup thread from today (August 4th)? I wouldn't mind getting your opinion on something I posted in there.

jc

Minor League Update: August 3 | 44 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.