Johnson lf
Catalanotto dh
Wells cf
Delgado 1b
Zaun c
Hinske 3b
Rios rf
Hudson 2b
Woodward ss

Pretty standard lineup by now.

What the heck is Shaggy doing in the booth? Get him out of there.

Slow night in these parts.

I'm about to go nuts if the Jays strike out with men in scoring position and less than 2 outs.

Unless it's a DP ball.

Big opportunity here with 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs. Hopefully O-Dog can come up big.

Lilly's pitch count so far through 2 is staggeringly high. Doesn't look like he'll make it past 5 or 6 tonight.

And in case I hadn't mentioned it before the YES crew is brutal to listen to.

going nuts?

Woody brings next to nothing to the table.

Argh...

Hernandez issues three walks, Blue Jays load the bases, but can't score.

so the big question may be, just how many can we leave stranded?

happy birthday mr rodriguez...now just get out the rest of the game

If people still don't believe that guys give a little extra added effort on their birthday's, your kidding yourself.

And if the Jays don't win today, it's REALLY the season from hell. Juan Padilla in for the injured El Duque. The Jays must now take advantage.

What happened to Hernadez??!! (I'm following Gameday)

going nuts?

Many people think that already.

This game isn't helping.

On the other hand, I'm getting more insight with the TV muted than I did with the sound on.

Uh...wasn't the FAN 590 online link not supposed to be accessible during MLB games? I've got it going perfectly here.

Pistol: referring to the RSN crew or the YES crew?

Every station broadcasting MLB is supposed to take off their internet broadcasts during the game, but many often forget.

Orlando Hernandez out with tightness in his right hamstring.

Actually Pistol you appear to be one of the saner ones....does that mean the rest of us are insane?

when does the 05 season start? :(

OH MY GOD HOLY S!!!

WHERE DID THAT BALL LAND!?!?!?!?

Wilner's mentioning a rumour that has Randy Johnson going to the Bronx along with the injured Matt Mantei -- can teams trade injured players?

My first experience with the Internet radio delay as DaveInNYC informs me of a homer before Tom Cheek tells me about it. :)

details...those of us with no sound, didnt see the ball, over windows what? no sooner had i been drowning my sorrows, did i see Wells had homered.

YES sucks.

I can tolerate it when it's just Kaat and Singleton, but when Michael Kay's in the booth forget it. Joe Giardi's been in the booth recently and I can't listen to him either.

Of course the only broadcasting team I like is the Boston crew.

Wow, 77 pitches for Lilly through 3?

Is that Hinske's best defensive play ever?

Nope Pistol.

His best defensive play ever was that come from behind win against Anaheim. The runners were going and Davanon ripped a smash line drive to third. Hinske made a great diving catch to his right, got up, and threw the runner out to complete the inning ending DP. It saved a run, and the game.

Six pitch 4th inning for the flower. Hopefully he can go six tonight.

Hustle double for Rios. I kept reading that he was a poor baserunner, but so far in his big league career I've seen nothing but great baserunning. Sure he's VERY aggressive out there, but he's rarely made any mistakes out there so far.

And with that, Rios is stranded with two lousy AB's by Hudson and Woodward.

I have nothing against celebrities visiting in the booth with Tom and Jerry if they want to promote their movie, book, TV show, or whatever. But it would be nice if they had *some* baseball knowledge. The two innnings tonight with Seth Green and Matthew Lillard were painful to listen to.

Seth Green was better than Colin Farrell last year, lack of baseball knowledge notwithstanding.

Has anyone touched on what Cerutti mentioned about Delgado easing off somewhat to his refusal to waive his no trade clause? I know time's running out, but maybe he and his agent have reconsidered their stance which was if not flat out 'wrong', pretty closed minded to begin with... I have a 'feeling' something could still get done, and (all other factors aside) which ever team takes the chance could get a huge contributor down the stretch (looks like he's turning the corner).

the clutch hitting on this team just never stops does it?

maybe he and his agent have reconsidered their stance which was if not flat out 'wrong', pretty closed minded to begin with

I have to disagree with this statement. The Jays gave Carlos a no-trade clause, he doesnt want to move he's under no obligation to do so. Just because we think he should want to go to a contender or we want to get something for him before he becomes a free-agent, doesnt make it 'flat out wrong' for him to exercise his no-trade clause. If he wants to stay in Toronto and play out the season he has every right to do so and there's nothing wrong with that.

Yeah good guys pull ahead.

Man, Rios just keeps getting better and better. Very impressive.

Nice night for Hinske both with the glove and at the stick!

Frederick is warming, so I'm guessing that Lilly's night is just about through. His fighting with the home plate umpire doesn't help much either. LOL, what happened to Tosca not wanting to put Frederick into any close game situations?

I was kinda hoping they'd let Lilly go another inning. His heater was really looking good last inning.

It's official

I jinxed Alexis Rios and his good base running.

Not to say that that was poor baserunning or anything, but the fact that he was thrown out really leaves me thinking I jinxed him.

Hopefully Woodward can come up with yet another clutch Blue Jay hit.

yea technically what you say is true, and if in fact his thought process is to remain a Jay (possibly for his career) then my assesment of the situation is wrong... but if not, then what's the logic in refusing to go over to a contender to not only get a taste of the post season, but also to attempt to raise his stock going into free agency on what has been a miserable season (and then if he wishes to return he still could)? I quoted wrong for a reason though, because the fact is that he does have the choice, but to the average fan I guess it seems like a no brainer in having a chance to contend while not sacrificing your integrity or loyalty in the process. But it does beat the alternative of having a player abandon a losing team, so while I question Carlos' decision I definitely admire his loyalty and faith to the city and organization.

(wow fireworks, it didn't look like Posada got the tag in.. Cat is fuming.. and Woodward, hits his 50th straight pop fly)

Whoa...what just happened? Anyone?

WTF is wrong with Delgado??

Not only does he butcher the grounder by Clark, but he then lightly jogs over to the ball and softly tosses it to Frederick.

Does he even care anymore?

for what its worth, baseball tonite the other night was talking about how guys like Delgado dont care anymore, when they dont even want to get traded to a contender. Analyze it anyway you want, just another theory.

Rios on 1st, Double by O-Dog.

Rios goes home and gets thrown out at the plate, sort of. Ump called him out but it didnt look like Posada actually tagged him, Tosca has a word with him. Afterwards one of the umps (2nd base I think) went over to the TV monitors to watch the replay and Catalanatto went ballistic.

For those getting the game on YES, what was their take on things?

he was just trying to remain composed, I have no doubt that he still cares.. his reaction to the fan interference, and the way he's flung the bat a couple of times after poor at bats are pretty good indicators that this is true.

Catalanatto may have been tossed. Johnson is now in.

But if you're going to be a free agent anyway in a few months, why would you want to pack up and leave now? To play, say, in Dodger Stadium for three months. A whole league of pitchers you know nothing about? A terrible place to hit?

There's a reason players ask for no-trade clauses.

oh i dont disagree, their take was, a chance for a pennant race, a ring, the dream of being in the playoffs verses, riding it out for 2 months for a team going nowhere (this year).

I'm assuming we won't see Q or the Sandman tonight - Torre has been working them like dogs, but I think tonight they rest...

Cat tossed, Menechino in.

I will say it again and again, the hit and run is THE BEST "play" in baseball. And the Jays seem to be very good at executing it.

What a terrible at-bat by Wells with 1st and 3rd and no one out. First pitch and he swings at a fastball up at his shoulders and fouls out. Hopefully Carlos can pick him up.

clutch hitting continues

Can he really do much worse than how he's done this season? Let's face it someone will give him pretty decent money regardless how he finishes this season and just call this year an anamoly for his standards, nowhere close to his last contract but decent enough I'm sure.. and I don't think the Dodgers are the only logical destination with some of the recent injuries that some contenders (NY, CWS) have experienced. After everything else balances out, its about a chance to win, but I'm willing to give Carlos the benefit of the doubt judging by his character that he's the type of guy that would rather not do it at all (as a add on, or spare part if you will) if he can't do it with us.

Unbelieveable, 1st and 3rd no one out and the Jays might manage YET AGAIN to squander the opportunity.

What makes it worse is that the superstars that the Jays depend on have failed them so often. Two really poor AB's by Vernon and Carlos right there.

It's not over.

Bases Loaded with 2 outs. There is absolutely no chance in hell the Jays leave the bases loaded again. It just can't happen. They're maxed out.

I'll take that bet

do i know them or what.

Ah damn. Hinske swings first pitch....shallow flyball. 3 runners stranded again. This is getting to be very discouraging.

i HATE runners left on base!

and i really hope the missed opps dont come back to bite 'em in the arse.

and a faint smell of kerosene begins in the dome./

and the match box has been opened.

Man.. that was frustrating. Not Hinske so much as Wells and Delgado unable to score the runner from 3rd with less than two outs.

Of all the AB's in that past inning, I'm really upset with Wells'.

He had Prinz on the ropes with 1st and 3rd and no out and he goes and swings at ball 1 on the first pitch and ends up fouling out.

You just can't strand that many runners against the Yankees and expect to win.

I stand corrected.

and the match has been lit

This looks like another horrid Ligtenberg inning in the making. You know, the one where he gives up 5 runs and doesn't get a single out?

If the Jays lose this game, just remember all the runners the Jays have stranded and how clutch hitting "doesn't exist."

I was hoping Lightenberg would continue looking good so we could ship him off for the Yankee' best pitching prospect. Too bad.

Absolutly useless outing from Ligtenberg.

Let's just hope Speier can limit the Yanks to 2 or 3 runs here.

Tosca's not going to let it get that far.

Anyone else think at least two of the pitches to Sheffield were strikes?

ignition....this has all the making of a 7-2 game

If the Jays lose this game, just remember all the runners the Jays have stranded and how clutch hitting "doesn't exist."

Who ever said clutch hitting never existed?

Hey no problem. Bases Loaded, no one out in a one run ballgame. Oh yeah and the batter is A-Rod, *and* it's his birthday. No problem right?

Maybe Todd Ziele will be available at the deadline. I'd rather have him on the mound than the arson squad. How predictable was the past inning?
I bet the Yanks have a four run lead before Speier is done. They will then load the bases twice more with none out and score -4 runs. Make the final NYY 6 TOR -2
Season from Hell!

I don't like the idea of A-Rod having the bases loaded on his birthday.

for real.. like, where was ball 4? I guess that's revenge for Lilly's outburst, seeing that he doesn't get the W...

.. like the lack of clutch hitting/pen wouldn't take care of that anyway.

The whole theory that there are clutch hits but no clutch hitters is flawed to me. That's what I'm referring to Moffatt.

And with that, the game is tied. See how simple it is Vernon and Carlos? You don't have to hit a 5 run homer. You can simply hit a sac fly to get a runner in from 3rd with less than 2 outs.

What a way to waiste another good outing from Lilly.

Season From Hell!

Why do I still keep watching?

That, for instance, was some clutching hitting by Posada right there.

Damn.

that folks, is how a team wins games, clutch hitting.....

Oh come on...

So typical.

Untimely hitting and untimely pitching hurt the Jays YET AGAIN. All thanks to Vernon Wells, Carlos Delgado, and Eric Hinske.

Think Joey McLaughlin would want to try a comeback?

How about Dave Geisel?

Roy Lee Jackson, anyone?

Ah &*%^! On the bright side, I think I can say fairly confidently that it's going to be a loooong time before we see another season like this one. Season from the ninth circle of hell indeed.

Forgot to mention Kerry Ligtenberg and Justin Speier, although you can't really blame Speier for the fact that he came in with the bases loaded.

I don't think I would have pulled Ligtenberg. I didn't see anything wrong with his pitching. You go to the pen with the bases loaded and nobody out it better be someone who you have a lot of confidence in. I'm not sure why Speier would qualify for that.

The whole theory that there are clutch hits but no clutch hitters is flawed to me. That's what I'm referring to Moffatt.

It is somewhat counter-intuitive, but study after study show it.

Given the evidence, though, I believe it. It makes some sense in that I think you have to be pretty clutch to make it through highschool, possibly college, and the minor leagues to get to the big league level. Even the worst big-league ballplayer is a hell of a great player.

R Billie, Tosca made a wonderful move in pulling "The Gas Can" Ligtenberg there.

He's already seen Ligtenberg have two horrifying outings this season where he gave up 10 runs without recording an out, so why wait and watch a third.

Too bad Speier is awful as well.

There is lots of clutch hitting. Every day there are clutch hits and lots of them.

However, there are not players who consistently hit better in "clutch" situations, as opposed to "non-clutch" situations.

Once again Lightenberg comes in, and someone somewhere in the crowd is yelling "Oh the humanity! The humanity!"

Apologies if anyone else has used that this year...but here's tonight's snap poll: Kerry's new nickname is:
a) The Igniter
b) Kerrysene
c) Hindenberg
d) don't care, just get him out of town now!

I've been really disappointed with Speier. Coming into the season, he was the reliever I was most excited about. I thought he'd make a good closer.

He had a 4.57 ERA at Coor's last year, and a 3.38 ERA on the toad.

This year he's actually been decent at skydome, but check out these road numbers:

7.20 ERA, 1.95 WHIP, .346 BAA

Weird.

But it's also just an example of how badly outclassed the Jays are offensively. The Yankees get to the middle and bottom of their order and if you leave one pitch in the wrong place you usually pay for it with a ball entering the second deck. On the other hand the Jays can see mistake pitch after mistake pitch and hardly ever hit it solidly let alone out of the yard. They depend on finding holes to get their hits. You can't win without some power.

higher draft pick. ; /

Joe Girardi did an excellent job of pointing out that Alex Rios won't be hitting any homeruns anytime soon if he doesn't cut down on the length of his swing. He really has a difficulty with the ball in and it'll be interesting to see if his opposite field power is really as good as everyone claims.

10 hits, 2 runs with both runs coming on homers.

Not good at all especially when you consider the fact that Orlando Hernandez only pitched 2 innings and the guys the Yanks sent out there to pick up the slack weren't exactly Cy Young or Roger Clemens.

I would ask Joe Girardi if he remembers a guy named McGwire. Big redhead, longest swing this side of Josh Phelps. He hit a few out as I recall.

Magpie, Girardi would probably tell you that Rios doesn't even have 1/8 of the power that Mark McGwire has or had.

;)

and as long as he can gradually make whatever necessary adjustments needs to be made, and doesn't compromise on what is a pretty solid approach that he's exhibiting right now, I'm willing to wait.. and with everything else that he's shown thus far, I'm sure that too will come in time.

Well, he'd be wrong!! :)

He's got at least 1/8 of Mc Gwire's power! Maybe even 2/8!!

What's with Woody tonight? I haven't seen so much uppercut in a swing since the Home Run Derby.

I hate blaming refs and umps, and the Jays certainly have only themselves to blame for tonight's performance, but it sure has seemed like a very Yankee friendly strikezone tonight.

Girardi isn't that bad.

I'm about ready to hang myself with another minute of Michael Kay. Today's revelation on Moneyball from Michael Kay: Billy Beane wasn't the first one to acquire players with high OBP with patience - it was Stick Michael. How could someone who spends so much time in baseball be so out of touch? Kay should do himself (and the rest of us) a favor and just shut up.

From John Sterling: Wade Boggs brought the idea of seeing a lot of pitches to the Yankees. He was instrumental in helping Don Mattingly and Dion James. Mattingly did have a bit of an uptick in his BB total in 93, but it went right back to normal in 94. James actually had a lower walk rate in 93 then he did early in the years prior. He's a guy who drew 70 walks when he was 24 years old in 574 plate appearances in 1987.

tell me about it.. it's hard to fault a guy for driving the ball like that... but I think he would benefit from first getting back to the old philosophy of trying to hit it right up the middle (at the pitchers head if you will) before thinking of the long ball again... needless to say I gave up on him a long, long time ago.

It's hilarious. First noticed it last night. Poor Cerutti keeps talking about this Yankee pitcher named Marinara Rivera. Well, I guess it's good to know a speech impediment doesn't necessarly preclude a career in broadcasting !!

And Nakamura gives up YET ANOTHER bomb.

It's obvious his "deceptive" motion doesn't really bother major league hitters.

DaveInNYC, last year in New Haven, Rios was hitting balls 450 feet to right center off pitchers roughly of the quality of Prinz, Proctor and Heredia. It's not the quality of the pitching, but the fact that something happened to his stroke between last year and this. He started the season hitting the ball on the ground in Syracuse, and has gradually been fixing it with help from Barnett. He's been hitting the ball hard for about 5 weeks now, and the home runs will come. When they come, they will come in bunches (as they did in New Haven and Puerto Rico).

When you can only generate 2 runs out of 10 hits, including 2 homers and 2 doubles, and 4 walks in 7 innings, trouble will follow. It's been that kind of a season.

As for clutch hitting, the only full-scale study of it that suggested that it existed (by MGL) had Alfredo Griffin as a good clutch hitter, and Jack Clark as a poor one. As those who were around for those guys can attest, these findings are counter-intuitive.

Nakamura would be pretty good if he didn't give up so many homers.

Whoops, there's another one.

Fans are coming down out of the stands, asking for tryouts.

I think I'm starting to become immune to the pain..

#215571 Posted 07/27/2004 09:46 PM by my names not ryan:

ignition....this has all the making of a 7-2 game

Wow, know anything about the lottery numbers for tomorrow?

It's time to end the Nakamura experiment.

It's time to end the Nakamura experiment.

Well, if you've got a better way to find out if our cosmetics cause a rash, I'd sure like to hear it.

I can't stand certain members of this bullpen. Hell, bring back Cliff Politte and Jeff Tam.

You can't send Nakamura out there against Williams and Sheffield and expect mistakes not to be hammered. He just doesn't have the stuff to get away with it. This is a $90 million hitting lineup. Like I said, you could NOT have gotten a worse result by letting Ligtenberg work out of his own mess so I have no idea why we've seen a parade of pitchers after two singles and a walk. I'd rather have seen more singles than the three homeruns we've seen since then.

I think I'm starting to become immune to the pain..

I hear you.

There was a time where a game like this would piss me off, but now I just sort of go numb.

And I agree they should have left Ligtenberg in the game. I don't like him at all, but at least he doesn't give up many homers. I don't think he does anyways, I'd have to look it up for sure.

The Nakamura Experiment. An edge of the seat thriller, of deception and intrige, with lots of fireworks. Not for the faint of heart. Rated R.

My only question was why not give Frederick a chance to start the 8th?

Another great AB by Delgado

Clutch hitting - offense declines in late inning situations, because of people like Rivera and Gagne. So maybe player A loses 10 percent of his production and player B loses 5 percent and player C doesn't lose any. Which one of them is a better clutch hitter?

Hint - player A is named Bonds...

Yea, its kind of like the Ned Flanders conditioning he experienced as a child, one of these days I might explode but hopefully some winning in the near future will tide me over.

Already walked down that path with the Raptors the last few years... there's nothing worse than getting used to losing, or in this case your teams losing because I'd never let that happen to me personally.. I'm just too bad of a loser to allow that to happen. ; )

Ligtenberg had given up 2 homers in 34.2 innings entering the game with 8.8 k/9. Speier had given up 5 in 38.2 innings with 5.8 k/9. I'll let you decide who you would rather have with the bases loaded and nobody out against the Yankees.

Nakamura has now allowed 7 homers in 24 innings despite his 23/5 k/bb ratio. He doesn't have major league stuff.

Delgado is trying too hard. He's ferociously trying to pull everything. Perhaps the weight of this floundering franchise is too much for him to bear. I don't think his talent is necessarily on the decline.

I don't have a problem with being used to losing. As a Canucks fan I've been through that.

But when you expect to lose despite the fact that you're winning...that's a problem.

These guys just don't give up, do they? Gotta like that....

My only question was why not give Frederick a chance to start the 8th?

That's an even better question. If you know you're not going to use Chulk or Frasor it seems tonight, then why not let the guy who hasn't pitched much lately (and is actually retiring people) throw one more inning.

Instead you bring in your other guys in the 8th when there's 6 outs left to go and leave yourself no margin for error.

Hey, I guess it's not all bad. Good for Hinske.

heh that's true... but I'd have to defer to Sox or Cub fans on that one.

Delgado is trying too hard.

I'm a Delgado fan but I'm frankly tired of seeing this excuse used for him. Does Barry Bonds try to hard when he is the only thing resembling offence in the Giants' lineup? Does he repeatedly swing at pitches at his eyes and in the dirt and let the ones that are actually close go for called third strikes? No. He displays patience and a disciplined, professional hitting approach, something Delgado used to show but has decided for some reason he doesn't need anymore. Does Bonds lose his focus just because he's seeing nothing to hit? No. He puts up a .600 obp instead.

If Carlos is "trying to hard" he better fix it because he's 32 years old and making $18 million. To me trying to hard is a synonym for not focusing on the task at hand.

Does Barry Bonds try too hard when he is the only thing resembling offence in the Giants' lineup?

Comparing any living hitter to Barry Bonds... well, go for a bike ride with Lance Armstrong. Go driving with Michael Schumacher.

Carlos is just a run of the mill Hall-of-Famer who's off his game. I remember Reggie Jackson having spells like this, trying to hit every pitch off the planet. And for much the same reason...

Another good pitching performance by a starter for naught, this "season from hell" is due in a large part, to a lot of unproductive devils in this batting order.

I can understand trying to kill pitches that are well...within six inches of the strikezone. I don't understand trying to kill pitches that are up around your shoulders. I've never seen Delgado swing the bat as poorly as he has almost all of this year and that includes other years where he didn't have much around him. The irony is, people are actually getting on base for him and in key situations and he's lucky if he can touch the ball because the pitchers know he will swing at anything. It doesn't even have to be close.

Yet another depressing loss. It's the story of the season so far - just when you think a corner has been turned, they throw it all away all over again.

Actually, tonight was the season in a microcosm: very solid starting pitching, atrocious hitting with men in scoring position (particularly from the heart of the lineup), nice work out of the pen from the new guy in town, absolutely terrible work from the high priced veterans.

Some seasons are like this, and some seasons, everything goes your way. Might as well get it all out of the system now.

Carlos is just a run of the mill Hall-of-Famer who's off his game.

I hope Cooperstown hasn't become like the NHL Hall of Fame, where there is such a thing as a run of the hill Hall of Famer.

As for Carlos, run of the mill? No way. Run of the mill would be a big improvement this year, though.

Hall of Famer? Not a chance.

Of course Carlos has a chance for the Hall. His chances took a big hit this year, but they are still alive.

The player I always compare Delgado to is Thome, and they are/were pretty close over the years but Thome has been doing it for a longer period and is a more consistent (and greater) power threat who has exploded over the last few seperating himself from Carlos (although the numbers are still relatively close).. but the thing is, and I'm sure some Jays fans share my sentiment that if Carlos truly got the most out of his abilities (or maybe was in the right situation with the right protection, see last year) and possibly had a 'stronger' desire to excel he could be even greater than he already is, and should at least follow the same career path as Thome as one of the great power hitters of our time.. I don't think any of us are under false illusions of Carlos being a Manny-esque hitter - an overall great natural hitter.. he is what he is, quite streaky, who when slumping can look pretty awful at times almost as if he's resorting to guessing on pitches, but when he's zoned in watch out, not many more feared run producers than him when he's in his groove... I hope he can put this off year behind him and keep moving forward as the HOF is far from a sure thing yet in my opinion, he needs to rebound nicely and have a handful more dominant seasons at least under his belt first.

Lets designate Nick Nack they just whacked amura for asignment, and call up Maurer

Hall of Famer? Not a chance.

A 32 year old hitter with 300 HR and 1000 RBI? If his career ends today, obviously not. But it should also be obvious that he's well on his way to building the resume.

Through his age 32 season, Rafael Palmeiro had 271 HR and 954 RBI; I think Raffy's probably going in, no? Carlos is comfortably ahead of that pace, and seeing as how he's a better hitter, he should stay ahead. Carlos has a genuine chance to end up with something like 560 HRs and 1800 RBI.

He's building the resume.

The player I always compare Delgado to is Thome, and they are/were pretty close over the years but Thome has been doing it for a longer period and is a more consistent (and greater) power threat who has exploded over the last few seperating himself from Carlos.

And how.

Around the end of the 90's, it looked like Thome had peaked in 96/97, and was on the slippery slope downhill. His K's were rising, and his batting average was dropping, as low as .269 in 2000. This coincided with Carlos' peak season. If you asked anyone after that year who they would prefer, 99% would have picked Carlos.

Then something clicked, and Thome reversed his decline. I don't know what he changed, or what adjustment he made, but he simply started hitting again. And his K's didn't drop. He just started hitting more balls out of the yard.

Hopefully Carlos can make a similar adjustment and get back to that .300/.400/.600 form we fondly remember.

I hate the Yankees. I hope they all eat street meat tonight and get the most painful 24 hour flu ever. They don't have to die or anything like that.. I just wish upon them the stomach pains, constant runs, and puking of the 24 hour flu. Posada could die... I wouldn't mind that. Just picture Jeter on the can vomiting while going number 1 out of his bum.... priceless.

I had to get that out. It'll never happen again.

Just got home & checked out the boxscore. How weird (but of course, also not that weird, in 2004):

NYY: 7 hits, 0 errors, 7 runs.
Jays: 15 hits, 1 error, 4 runs.

That about sums it up.

On the sort-of bright side, another very strong (but squandered) outing by Lilly. And more two-hit games for Wells, Hinske, Rios. To be honest, though, I've just about had it with looking on the bright side.

On the dark side? God, is Carlos ever having an awful season. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he can command in the off-season. Will anyone pay him over $10 million? $8 million?

Okay, sure that game was like consecutive kicks to the groin, hightend by the fact the place was crawling with MFY fans, but it was almost worth to see that dumb kid in the Jeter jersery look at us with such daggers in his eyes everytime we banged the drum and started the "OVER-RATED" chant when Jeter came up to bat... priceless.

Also, the power of the O-Drum to attract women is becoming alarming. I somehow doubt it would have the same effect if I took it to my school campus one day or local club and banged loudly and cheered.

Good job on the drumming and chanting tonight...gave the place some much-needed anti-Yankee atmosphere.

Jobu, you go to Waterloo, right?

As I'm sure you know, there are no women at Waterloo, so you'll have to bang your drum by yourself.

Jobu, the problem is the drum attracts drunken women, who request a turn to man the drum themselves and end up ruining a good cheer.

We got props from a few Yankees fans while leaving, which was nice to hear. Things like, "I'm for the Yankees but I have to say you guys did a good job with that drum."

O-Dog certainly seemed happy to have the O-Drum back. When the first slow clap/drumming started in the top of the 2nd he was clapping in time with the beat. I thought it was a coincidence until he started speeding up his clapping at the same time as the drum.

Nice work guys.

Paul

There are women at Waterloo. Just less than any other ontario university.

http://www.thewolfshack.com
Andrew, I was there for 5 years, I know. There's actually plenty of women there, particularly if you look at the science or arts faculites. I was just teasing.

Absolutely true story:

When I was in Grade 13 I decided that for university I was going to attend U of Waterloo and be a Comp. Sci. major. My Dad suggested that I tour the place before I made my final decision, so we went one Saturday afternoon. We toured around and saw depressing ugly buildings, depressing ugly people, and not much else appealing.

On the car ride home my Dad turned to me and said "Are you sure you want to go there" and I swear I almost started crying. I wanted to get as far away from that as possible, so I went to Western and became a Philosophy major. :)

Hall of Famer? Not a chance.

I think he'll make it - eventually. He's certainly had a good-enough first half of his career; he needs to have a good second half of his career as well.

http://www.thewolfshack.com
Just to stick up for Waterloo, I love the city and the people I met there, and I received a fantastic education. The buildings are ugly, and there might not be many women if your classes if you're in Math or CS. There are negatives to the school, but I don't regret going there for a second.

And next year I start at Laurier, which is just down the street, only it's filled with cute girls.
:)

Good job on the drumming and chanting tonight...gave the place some much-needed anti-Yankee atmosphere.

Thanks, Scott! We thought it was one of the better drum outings -- non-Yankee parts of the upper deck seemed to respond really well to it.

O-Dog certainly seemed happy to have the O-Drum back. When the first slow clap/drumming started in the top of the 2nd he was clapping in time with the beat. I thought it was a coincidence until he started speeding up his clapping at the same time as the drum.

Derek, that story just made my week. Were you at the game?

Hall of Famer? Not a chance.

I think he'll make it - eventually. He's certainly had a good-enough first half of his career; he needs to have a good second half of his career as well.

Therein lies the rub. If Carlos manages to duplicate the performance of the first part of his career, it would be impossible to keep him out of the Hall. But is this year an injury-plagued aberration or is it a harbinger of Delgado's decline? I suspect he'll bounce back some next year, but it seems doubtful to me that he'll approach the numbers he rolled up over the first decade of his career, especially since I don't expect that he'll want to play the game much beyond the next long-term deal he signs. His interests are too broad for him to want to spend all his time playing baseball until age 40, I suspect.

Derek, that story just made my week. Were you at the game?

Yup. My attempts to get the "Going, Going, Zaun!" chant started on the 100 level didn't take, but at least some people chuckled.

I think I'm going to make some GOING GOING ZAUN t-shirts. Who wants one?

If Carlos manages to duplicate the performance of the first part of his career, it would be impossible to keep him out of the Hall.

He doesn't even have to duplicate it. 150 home runs and 500 RBI - about five more good-but-not-Delgado seasons and a year or two of hang-around time - will secure it.

I think I'm going to make some GOING GOING ZAUN t-shirts. Who wants one?

Shirt me.

Shirts a-hoy! Make it small for me as Arnold would dub me a "girlie-man".

Guys, I got to York. Trust me, girls are not a problem.... :)

Though I still doubt the drum would work on campus.

And oh yes, please provide me with a shirt.

I also think its handy to keep shirts like that when fans of the visiting team foolishy think they can join us.

"Want to join us, gotta put on the Zaun shirt. Thats just how it works buddy.....PS, I wouldnt leave your beer on the floor there for when drunk chicks come by."

Guys, I got to York. Trust me, girls are not a problem.... :)

As a U of T grad, I couldn't agree more, Jobu. The guys, not the girls, are the problem at the best little university in Downsview, Ontario!

Sorry Jobu, I thought you were the one that went to Waterloo. I remember having a conversation with someone here who was in CS at Waterloo. Obviously it wasn't you, sorry.

"Want to join us, gotta put on the Zaun shirt. Thats just how it works buddy.....PS, I wouldnt leave your beer on the floor there for when drunk chicks come by."

Hah, we need a shirt with a picture of a wagon on it to give to people who join us. ;)

The guys, not the girls, are the problem at the best little university in Downsview, Ontario!

Heh. The real problem is telling the difference between the two.

No need to appologize Paul, simple mistake. Needless to say if the drum's aphrodisic powers worked at my campus I would be one happy student. Where you also the one who has been to Olympic Stadium? Im going there in September, any recomendations or tips for a Montreal first timer? I already got "mystery directions" from Mr. Predictor (COMN) that I'm quite excited about, although I have a sneaking suspicion he's leading me off a cliff.

Yes, the token wangon changing shirt for enemy fans who wish the join the cheer club, I love it.

http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00002152.shtml#215218
Well, I suppose the link would help before i say COMN. There's Mr. Predictor's mystery directions.

Umm...Jobu? My knowledge of Montreal is limited, but I think Rue St. Laurent is a east-west street, therefore making northward walking quite difficult.

Yeah, I've been told east/west north/south can get very confusing on their streets... Nice to know its not just rumours. I still hope i can figure out this mystery destination.

http://www.thewolfshack.com
Yeah, i was in Montreal on Saturday.
We started out on St. Catherine Street and walked up to Ben's on McGill for some smoked meat. It was okay but overpriced. I think I'd go to Schwarz's instead, as I've heard it's better.

Then we walked back along St. Catherine eventually ending up at some sort of parade and a water fountain in front of a big building. We walked down through Chinatown (I thought we were going South on St. Laurent, but maybe not) to Old Montreal/Port area. Then we spent the afternoon walking around there, stopped at a bar, nothing too extrodinary. It was a good time though.

And we had seats in sectino 101, which put us behind homeplate. The atmosphere at the game was awesome, despite there only being 8,000 or so people there. It was Expos Hall of Fame night and Dennis Martinez was there and the Expos won.

I'll look later to see if I can find the thread where Craig and others gave me advice on what to do in Montreal.

Was at the game last night. In section 522, so I was in full view of the Cheer Club. Was quite good. It was my first game so I didn't know what to expect. The place honestly sounds like a tomb. I couldn't make out what the PA was announcing half the time and when they had people doing stuff in the stands, I couldn't understand them. And the acoustics are horrible, when you're above the lower bowl, you can hardly hear them at all. Feels like you're in two different stadiums.

But the drum definitely livened things up. At least I didn't feel embarrased to cheer. Although one cheer you guys did when Carlos was batting I couldn't make out. And I did see those drunk girls over with you. I wonder can you hear that drum in all parts of the stadium?

I was a little disappointed because I had to leave early (around the 6th) and I was hoping there would be a bigger crowd there with the Yankees in town and stuff. I think it also would've been better with the roof open. Ah well, at least Wells launched one in the second deck!

Last night was just about the final straw for me with the 2004 Jays. They are absolutely woeful (not that this is news to anyone). 27 runners left on base is disgraceful. Even a half-decent team would have won one of the last two games.

I have been a big supporter of JP since he was hired, but it's time to try a new approach to building a bullpen. For 3 straight years he has basically retooled the entire relief corps, and each time he has managed to find 2 guys who can get outs, at least for a few months at a time, and a bunch of arsonists. It is clear that he cannot readily identify which guys with successful track records are likely to carry that success forward - Tam, Creek, Lightenberg, Speier, Adams. How much is Quantrill making this year? Sure he is overpaid, but would you rather have him or Lightenberg, Speier, and Adams, who must combined make more?

The Hinske deal is looking more and more like it will be a mini-albatross, and as good as the past 3 drafts look the system is still nearly void of impact hitters, especially guys with power.

Last night was the capper of a frustrating season. Rant over.

OK, Rich! We'll expect to see you leaping back on the bandwagon sometime next August.

The Hinske deal is looking more and more like it will be a mini-albatross, and as good as the past 3 drafts look the system is still nearly void of impact hitters, especially guys with power.

What? He went two for five, a home run and a triple, and batted in three of the team's four runs last night. How on earth did last night's game make you think he was an albatross?

And NFH didn't even mention his sweet D last night (and the whole first half for that matter)

Let's be fair, Craig, before you start taking shots at me. I've been a fan for over 20 years and next to 1987, this has been the most disappointing season I have ever witnessed (and at least in '87 we were treated to great baseball). This spring I thought the 90 win optimism was unfortunately missplaced, but I at least expected to see a .500 ballclub that was still up-and-coming and fun to watch. Can you honestly name another Jays club that had this many players underperform in the same season?

If you want to disagree with anything I've written in this thread, I'd be happy to read it, because I read a lot of what you have written on this site and I respect your knowledge of the game. I actually would expect a bit more from you if you're going to bother respond to me other than a basic "FU, you fair-weather fan".

How on earth did last night's game make you think he was an albatross?

I think it was the fact that in his next at-bat after the homerun the scoreboard still had a single digit under the letters "HR". That and the strikeout with 2 men on on 2 changeups that would have hit a righthanded hitter in the ankle.

There's no need to be so sensitive. I am a frustrated fan, that's all. This year's team is awful, and there's no two ways around that fact.

I'm not being sensitive -- you said "more and more" like an albatross, like it's getting worse. I'd call two-for-five, HR, triple, 3 RBIs, and fantastic defense a night that makes him look like he's getting better, not worse. I think your frustration is clouding your judgement. ;)

This year's team is doing really badly. We were treated to a 2003 that was better than expectations, and now we have a 2004 that's worse. The team is rebuilding, and we just have to deal with it. The path to glory is littered with bad seasons.

Rich, I was just being snarky. I did not say "FU, you fair-weather fan". I said we'll expect you back on the bandwagon next August, which I suspect is true.

I agree that it's been a frustrating season (though I, personally, am not really all that frustrated... the only obvious thing about the bellyaching from Jays fans this year is that they have been VERY spoiled over the years. As a longtime Expos fan, I'm a bit more blase') I'm just making the (I think sensible) point that this team is likely to get a great deal better, very (very) quickly.

Craig, I truly hope you're right but it's hard to see it happening unless JP either changes his approach to building a bullpen or gets very, very lucky. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

As for the bandwagon, I will be on next spring, as I always am. I'm just praying we won't be having the same conversation next July.

Geez, yeah, I hope not!

Can you honestly name another Jays club that had this many players underperform in the same season?

Too easy.

1995: White/Alomar/Molitor/Carter/Olerud/Green/Sprague/Parrish/Gonzalez., Cone/Guzman/Hentgen/Leiter, Castillo/Timlin/Crabtree. A $50 million payroll when that meant a lot.

The two-time defending World Series champs, open the season with newly-re-acquired David Cone winning a 13-1 rout over the A's at a sold-out Skydome. With a 7-1 win in Game 2, they complete the mini-sweep.

That team that expected a return to the playoffs ended up with the worst record in the majors (and "only" got the fourth pick in the draft, the final kick in the nads)

Now how is this year's team more disappointing?

I think I'm going to make some GOING GOING ZAUN t-shirts. Who wants one?

In the words of the immortal Doctor Zoidberg - "At last, Zoidberg, you're becoming a crafty consumer! I'll take eight!"

Though being the shortest-tenured cheering person, I may be more suited for a wagon one. ;-)

We'll put a wagon on the back of yours.

We'll put a wagon on the back of yours.

*sniffle*
Okay, but I reserve the right to rescind the wagon once either a) someone else joins, thus eliminating my status as least-tenured cheerer, or b) I find some sort of use and become useFUL Tyler.

Does anyone else think that we need a name for Cheer Club members? I mean, we've got Bauxites for the site readers, the Cheer Club should have something just as witty.

"Cheer Club member" just isn't cutting it right now.
"C.C. Sabathia", perhaps?

I want a shirt.

I had to work until eight thirty tonight. hence why i was not at the game. expect me at numerous games though for the rest of the season!