Not to be picky Mike, but it's "Frasor the closer." Fordin is good too, but I doubt he can hit 95 on the gun. 'Bout time the Yanks came callin'. It almost didn't feel like AL East baseball.

Hahahah.. Thanks for the keen eye.

Do you think Fordin has any trade value? His ERA is still zero.

Well, nobody mentioned him in the Trade Pool. I guess we all want to keep him.

This season is a "Road to No Where" and you're all just a bunch of Talking Heads.

In case not everyone goes in the minor league threads Zach Jackson was signed yesterday and is headed to Auburn to pitch.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?id=91728
COMN for the Jackson signing link.

I believe that this leaves only David Purcey and Cory Patton unsigned (among players the Jays are likely looking to sign now).

I wasn't able to watch all the game yesterday, nor have I had a chance to read last night's thread. I'm guessing Tosca's strategy of having both catchers in the lineup backfired? I noticed Zaun was catching later on, which I guess isn't such a backfire, because then you just lose your DH and you're able to PH with those fine, able-bodied non-starters (!?!) Phelps, Woodward, etc.

On another note, I had to go out last night so I couldn't get my Hazel Mae photo together. What should I do with it (when I get home tonight), send it to Moffatt? Or should I just stick it where the sun don't shine?

I say give it to Moffatt. He's good with resizing images and the sort.

Keith,

I think your story is dodgy as all get out and I need to see photographic proof. Or at least just a picture of Hazel, feel free to crop yourself out.

The double switch, I have no catcher situation resulted in Rios being kicked out as he was the last at bat and Berg coming into play left field and Johnson moving to right.

What about that great grab made by Rios in the extra innings? Briliant.

Anyone who wants to send pictures to me can do so by mailing me at economics.guide@about.com

Rios was kicked out? Man, for once I'm gonna have to read those game summaries.

Oh: I'm not in the picture. I was in the front row before the game by the dugout. She was on the field.

While the double switch may have backfired, I think it was the right move to make. When you're in extra innings of a low scoring game go for the runs. And I think the only players they had left were Berg and Phelps. (Now, while I agree with the double switch, I'm not so sure about the decision to have Zaun DH)

I was listening to the FAN this morning and Landry was talking about this as if Delgado already was taking a lot of heat for his opinions. He seemed to be saying there were already some columns up criticising our slugger and that people didn't take too kindly to his words. Landry was talking about how its unfair to label him as anti-American because he doesn't support the war in Iraq. Wilner was on the show briefly, and he praised Bush's start and talked a bit about the game last night. He was also asked about Delgado, and he said that Delgado's refusal to stand for God Bless America stems more from the testing off the Dominican Republic than the war in Iraq itself. While NY is a more democratic state, people may misconstrue his refusal to stand for GBA as anti-Americanism, which any state won't stand for.

I don't know if anyone's got the time/ability to look for some columns online, but I wonder if papers like the NY Post are already critical of Delgado and there might be something in there on that today. I think it's pretty unfair to Delgado, considering that his protest was silent for so long, and that even if you support the war in Iraq, than you must admit his other beef with the U.S. government seems legitimate.

I'm not so sure about the decision to have Zaun DH

That's what I was getting at. And I said it right in the first inning yesterday, though my main objection then was that a catcher at DH is not proper rest for day game after night game. But, I guess we all saw, why you don't use your ONLY two catchers both in the starting lineup. Zaun needed the day off; and Phelps and Woodward need the ABs. I really don't get the hot lust for Zaun. Imagine the luxury of just being able to straight PH for Cash anytime you want.

Thomas, there is nothing on nypost.com or on news.google.com that is critical of Delgado. The only thing on google about Delgado is the Rhoden article Moffat linked to above. The Post is far more interested in Piazza and David Wright.

I really don't get the hot lust for Zaun. Imagine the luxury of just being able to straight PH for Cash anytime you want.

Especially given their abject lack of faith in him, which is eminently justifiable given the concerns about his hitting.

But the double-switch only hurt insofar as Berg's inability to catch the ball in the 14th. As I was listening to the game on the radio at that point, I really have no idea whether Johnson would have made that play anyways, so it may not have hurt at all.

Where having both catchers in the lineup at the same time may have done the most damage was in their inability to pinchrun for Zaun when he got on in the 12th. Again, I was listening to the radio broadcast, but it's unfortunate that he couldn't have scored from first on the Rios double (maybe nobody would have, I didn't see it).

On the Delgado thing, Rhoden's column from the NY Times is in the Toronto Star today. It's supportive of Delgado but I almost get the feeling that people might have been willing to let it slide and ignore/forget it had it not been mentioned. Now that it's been brought up again this morning in the Times I have no doubt that we'll hear at least a couple boos.

The funny/sad part is that Delgado never brought this up, he never mentioned it to anyone, he just did it as a form of silent protest. After awhile someone in the media noticed and it swept through all the various outlets. And of course now people criticize Delgado for, I kid you not, being a bully and misusing his fame.

My guess is that Zaun is being showcased for a trade. I base this on nothing, just that I predicted he'd be traded.

As for pinch running for Zaun, I think their options were Phelps and Berg at that point, right? So what do you gain?

Thomas, there is nothing on nypost.com or on news.google.com that is critical of Delgado.

If you read the Star article, they really have to scrape hard to find criticism of Delgado. They have the Mesabi Daily News in Virginia, Minnesota, a lifestyle magazine in Knoxville, Bill Maas in Kansas City, and some fan on an internet message board. Not exactly a who's who of sports or political opinion journalism.

The Star, once again, debases itself by trying to flog interest in its own story, which nobody else cares a whit about. I don't think it's too much to ask the Star, or at least its sports section, to stick to reporting the news, not trying to create it.

I'm no fan of Tosca, but I think he managed the game quite well yesterday. Maybe it didn't all work out, but sometimes you can play well and still lose. Zaun/Cash/Phelps/Cat? I don't think that really matters in the big picture; remember, too, that Zaun actually got on base twice, which is more than anyone else in the lineup can say.

Micro-analyzing Tosca's lineup decisions seems pretty trivial, considering the first four batters (you know, the ones who are supposed to be good) went 0-6, 1-6, 0-5, 0-5.

As for pinch running for Zaun, I think their options were Phelps and Berg at that point, right? So what do you gain?

Weren't Menechino and Woodward still available at that point? Zaun could have come in to pinch hit for Cash later in the inning.

This season is a "Road to No Where" and you're all just a bunch of Talking Heads.

Hello Moffat, where's my recognition? I want a homo-erotic photo of a Russian boxer too.

But the double-switch only hurt insofar as Berg's inability to catch the ball in the 14th. As I was listening to the game on the radio at that point, I really have no idea whether Johnson would have made that play anyways, so it may not have hurt at all.

We were watching in a bar by that point and Mrs. Hank and I agreed that Reed probably would have made the play.

BTW, great call on the pitch-out and then a great throw by Cash to nail the baserunner early on. And just an astounding outing from Bush. He's looking like a keeper -- I can't wait to see him against some really really tough opposition.

Ever get the feeling that Delgado is, perhaps subconsciously, deliberately sabotaging his free agent desirability? If he really wanted his 'silent protest' not to be noticed, it wouldn't have been. [I think it's a non-issue anyway, I'm sure plenty of players are against the war.]

You can't fault the big lug for wanted to stick around in Toronto, and perhaps his subconscious is working to make that eventuality happen.

I agree that none of the decisions really could be quibbled with in the game. Defensively the team was really, really strong behind Bush. We thought maybe that one ball that got past Menechino in the 14th also might have been scooped by Gomez if he had remained in the game, but the Jays had to do something to try to score in the top of the 14th...weren't they just about reduced to putting in a starter as a reliever? Who was left?

Mrs. Hank commented "They can't even put in Hentgen because he's starting tomorrow."

Again, I have to say WHAT A GAME.

Personally, I thought the game was brilliantly managed all the way through.

We still haven't had our big prize thread, alsiem, but to hold you over, here's a drawing of a cat riding a dinosaur:

Weren't Menechino and Woodward still available at that point?

I don't remember when Menechino came in... And Woodward pinch ran for Catalanatto, who had pinch hit for Gomez. So Woodward would have been available.

Ever get the feeling that Delgado is, perhaps subconsciously, deliberately sabotaging his free agent desirability?

With his dislike of some members of the Toronto media (and who can blame him), ever get the feeling that he's putting them on? Remember when Alexander Mogilny noticed that a reporter was tape recording Mogilny's private conversation with another player? Mogilny began to complain of hemmerhoids the size of quarters to see if it would show up in the paper.

And it did.

Personally, I thought the game was brilliantly managed all the way through.

I think Tosca did a fine job as well, with what he had available once the game started. But I think it is a worthwhile exercise to trace the impact on the game of the decision to put both catchers in the starting lineup.

Here's my two cents on the Delgado non-issue: I was at a game at Fenway in late May where a soldier who had been injured in Iraq threw out the ceremonial first pitch. He was received mostly with silence, to the point that one apparent Bush-supporter was yelling at the rest of the fans for not showing more enthusiasm. Naturally, the loudmouth implied that it was unpatriotic not to cheer for the soldier. It's just one anecdote, but it makes me wonder whether or not Delgado is in the minority (in the U.S.) for being against the war.

The United States is not a monolithic place. I imagine the reaction would have been a lot different in, say, Jacksonville, Florida than it would be in Boston.

Okay, after thinking about this for a bit, I'd like to vent.

What the **** is wrong with the Toronto Star? Right now the MO at their sports department seems to be to make up stories about the best athletes in TO. Report that Vince Carter is demanding a trade without speaking to him or to the GM? All the Griffin/Elliot nonsense about JP and about Batista being traded? I seriously think that they just make up stories, then, when the story they write about is picked up somewhere else they report it again as a fact.

The complete incompetence of the sports department makes me wonder about the rest of the paper.

It's just one anecdote, but it makes me wonder whether or not Delgado is in the minority (in the U.S.) for being against the war.

Recent Gallup and Zogby (as opposed to Zosky) polls show that Delgado is in the clear majority in that regard.

However, when the capture of Osama Bin Laden is announced on October 22, that may change.

With his dislike of some members of the Toronto media (and who can blame him), ever get the feeling that he's putting them on?

Perhaps, but his anger over the testing in Vieques seems very real. You don't take out a full page ad in the New York Times and Washington Post if you're playing a joke on the Toronto media.

A couple of corrections / clarifications:

[Wilner] said that Delgado's refusal to stand for God Bless America stems more from the testing off the Dominican Republic than the war in Iraq itself

Delgado is from Puerto Rico, and he's been very much involved in the issue surrounding the US test-bombing of an island off PR (not the Dominican) for years.

The Star, once again, debases itself by trying to flog interest in its own story, which nobody else cares a whit about. I don't think it's too much to ask the Star, or at least its sports section, to stick to reporting the news, not trying to create it.

The Rhoden column was from the NY Times. The Star (as did the Globe) just reprinted it.

The complete incompetence of the sports department makes me wonder about the rest of the paper.

I always knew there was a Tory inside you, just waiting to come out. :)

Perhaps, but his anger over the testing in Vieques seems very real. You don't take out a full page ad in the New York Times and Washington Post if you're playing a joke on the Toronto media.

I meant the re-signing stuff -- all the talk of testing the waters and so on, maybe he's got a deal worked out and is putting everyone on.

M

Heh, a fit of coughing smacked the "Post This Comment" button before I was done typing.

My mind comes up with all kinds of riotous scenarios like that -- I have this really funny image in my mind of Peddie and Carter sitting in Peddie's office drinking beer and making phone calls to lower-level Raptors management staff and Carter's mom and saying things like "Okay, when they call YOU, you say this..." and laughing their butts off whenever they turn on the TV or radio.

I always knew there was a Tory inside you, just waiting to come out. :)

Ha! I think I've come to the conclusion that you should completely disregard anything by a Toronto newspaper that's named after a celestial object. The Sun and Star seem like they're becoming the Canadian versions of Ann Coulter and Michael Moore.

NFH, that's hilarious. And I am especially glad you included the part about Carter's mom.
:)

The states are not apathetic, i was at a 4th of July parade where a troop that had just returned was part of the parade, and they were met with a standing ovation by nearly everyone on the route. I am not looking for a debate here, but mark me as one greatly offended by Delgado's stance.

The complete incompetence of the sports department makes me wonder about the rest of the paper.

Not to defend the Star but don't judge a paper on one department... Newspaper departments can differ like night and day, especially in the bigger papers like the Star. And sports departments are notoriously the black sheep of the staff (I've worked in a sports department, albeit not at the Star).

I've been a Star reader for just a few months now. I'd agree with most of the objections about the sports department. I think their Saturday paper is formidable and varied reading material. Though, editorially they are nakedly Liberal. The Star drove me crazy during the election, no matter who I wanted to win. I just wanted some coverage that at least pretended to be objective.

Really, the Star is like the Liberal party of newspapers: you read it because you can't take the alternatives (I like the 50 cent price too). The Sun: I'd be embarasssed to be seen near it. The Globe: good but elitist. The Post: less flamboyant than The Sun, more self-serving than The Star.

I am not looking for a debate here, but mark me as one greatly offended by Delgado's stance.

You support weapons testing near Puerto Rico?

I got over the somewhat haughty writing style of the Globe and it's what we get now on Saturdays. I used to get it on Fridays, too, but Rick Groen is like the Richard Griffin of movies. At least Groen is entertaining as all get-out to read, but sometimes I can't understand where his dislike comes from. Where I can use Ebert as a barometer of my own likes and dislikes (films he has trouble following are always must-sees for me), I can't get a bead on where Groen and I intersect.

That's good to know Marc. I wasn't sure if there was an editorial directive that came down on all the departments or if they each did their own thing.

Keith, my preferred paper is far and away the Globe and Mail. I think that while they don't have the quantity of articles that the other papers do, they have far and away the best quality. And I'm not sure if the Sun should count as a paper. I mean, they don't even try to be objective, and they don't pretend to. They're a tabloid which is kind of different. And since the Post makes you pay to read them online, unlike the Globe and Mail, I haven't read much of them. I like Warren Kinsella's blog though.

What disapoints me is that the Star and Sun have the biggest sports section, but they're also the worst. I wonder if there's a correlation there....

mark me as one greatly offended by Delgado's stance.

What about his stance offends you? It's not the National Anthem and not every ballpark even plays it anymore. He's not openly protesting or shouting to have his opinion heard. What is offensive?

NFH, there was an article in which Delgado said he doesn't go out of the dugout for 'God Bless America' because he believes that this war is "one of the stupidest wars ever."

So his stance isn't only about the weapons testing in Vieques.

The Star, once again, debases itself by trying to flog interest in its own story, which nobody else cares a whit about. I don't think it's too much to ask the Star, or at least its sports section, to stick to reporting the news, not trying to create it.

The Rhoden column was from the NY Times. The Star (as did the Globe) just reprinted it.

True, but the Rhoden column was defending Delgado and praising him for taking a position on the matter. It certainly cannot be taken as evidence that Delgado is raising a furor with his anti-GBA stance, which was the premise of the Baker article.

Thanks Paul, NFH,

That $1 price of the Globe is a barrier for me. Isn't that what they charge for a regular weekday? That's too much for a paper. But, I can probably get a deal on home delivery on weekends (which is when I get the Star.) So, I might give it a shot. I also get annoyed that The Star doesn't cover books well at all.

Though I think I'll stick with The Star for a while. As I'm new to Toronto, I like the GTA section and other sections give me some ideas for things to do on weekends (and ideas for places to live). The regionality is what I'm after. I could read the Globe back in BC. The Star is kind of a novelty for me.

COMN for the article that started everything. In it, Delgado explains why he doesn't stand and basically how he feels about the war.

I agree with him 100%

http://www.counterpunch.org/zirin07092004.html
Leave it to me to mess that up ;)

That should fix it

The war in and occupation of Iraq is one of the stupidest ever - I think that's been established as fact ;-)

So, for the "K" images for The Kid Pitcher Bush, will there be head shots of The President-For-Now Bush with a circle and a line drawn through?

So his stance isn't only about the weapons testing in Vieques.

No, it's also about the war. The war that was dubbed "Operation Iraqi Freedom," in order to supposedly bring the freedom Americans enjoy to a nation living under a dictator.

Freedom like the freedom of speech, freedom of belief and freedom to organize. Which Carlos better not goddamn exercise or we'll throw him in jail!

But, I can probably get a deal on home delivery on weekends (which is when I get the Star.) So, I might give it a shot. I also get annoyed that The Star doesn't cover books well at all.

The Globe's book section is good. I don't know what we're paying for weekend delivery, but it's cheap and a couple of times a year they give us free daily papers to try to convince us to subscribe 6 days a week (and to boost numbers during sweeps). All that convinces us of, tho', is that we don't need a daily paper.

However, if we could get the paper version on Saturday and electronic the other five days at a reasonable price, I'd jump at it. As it stands, the electronic version is way more expensive than the paper version.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com

I got over the somewhat haughty writing style of the Globe and it's what we get now on Saturdays. I used to get it on Fridays, too, but Rick Groen is like the Richard Griffin of movies. At least Groen is entertaining as all get-out to read, but sometimes I can't understand where his dislike comes from. Where I can use Ebert as a barometer of my own likes and dislikes (films he has trouble following are always must-sees for me), I can't get a bead on where Groen and I intersect.

Groen makes me laugh out loud, even if he can be a little cruel at times.

Bias is a problem, even with the best of critics. I always use rottentomatoes.com before deciding to part with my hard earned cash at a movie theater. COMN.

How does Delgado's stance on the war differ from that of, oh, half the United States Senate?

That came off a bit more inflammatory than what I intended.

Suffice it to say that I strongly believe that there is nothing hypocritical in, say, earning a paycheck in the currency of a country while criticizing that country's foreign policy. Particularly when the policy itself is supported by no more than half of a bitterly, and very evenly, divided voting public.

So, for the "K" images for The Kid Pitcher Bush, will there be head shots of The President-For-Now Bush with a circle and a line drawn through?

While an image of either of the Presidents Bush would fit along with the Theodore Roosevelt Ks I think that it's too political. Roosevelt is far-enough removed from today that no one thinks about his politics when the K is put up.

At least, I hope they don't.

What Magpie said.

Keith, I think you're right about the price. My landlady has a subscription, so I either read hers or I read it online. You might want to pick up the Saturday paper for a while, it's pretty good and has a book section.

NFH, I'm confused. The Globe and Mail's website is free. You only have to pay if you want to read articles that are more than 7 days old, but the new stuff is free.

Roosevelt is far-enough removed from today that no one thinks about his politics when the K is put up.

Aaron, please don't get me started on his "Square Deal" domestic platform.

How does Delgado's stance on the war differ from that of, oh, half the United States Senate?

Not by much. I imagine each one of them stands for God Bless America, however.

Go to a ballgame and look at the dugouts during the anthems. Most of the players are nowhere to be found. It's not required.

Though I think I'll stick with The Star for a while. As I'm new to Toronto, I like the GTA section and other sections give me some ideas for things to do on weekends (and ideas for places to live). The regionality is what I'm after. I could read the Globe back in BC. The Star is kind of a novelty for me.

Sunday to Friday, the Star has better city coverage than the Globe. However, the Globe's Toronto section in the Saturday paper is great (John Barber is a very angry, sarcastic man!) That section is one of the main reasons I'm willing to part with my $2.50 before heading down to the Lakeview Lunch for breakfast.

Barber also has columns in during the week, but I just read 'em online.

Bias is a problem, even with the best of critics. I always use rottentomatoes.com before deciding to part with my hard earned cash at a movie theater.

I find it easier, though, to just read critics that I can relate to myself. I've avoided movies based on Ebert's 4-star reviews and gone to see movies because of his 2-star reviews, because after a decade of reading him I know how he relates to me.

I agree, Groen can be a riot. I just don't find his reviews useful.

Suffice it to say that I strongly believe that there is nothing hypocritical in, say, earning a paycheck in the currency of a country while criticizing that country's foreign policy.

Same here. I was making a purchase on eBay a few months ago, and a seller who had an item I wanted had listed "will ship to USA only". I dropped them a line to see if they'd ship to Canada, since "USA only" is the default and most people just leave it, and I got a nasty mail back about how they wouldn't ship to Canada because Canada is filled with freedom-hating idiots who don't support the war in Iraq. I responded "Are you telling me that you won't ship to me based on a decision made by a government that I voted against? Isn't that like saying you won't ship to the USA because they're all adulterers who sleep with interns?" I got an apologetic response, and they said they would ship to me, but I decided not to buy from them.

Magpie, the US Senate voted for it, including Kerry and Edwards. Now a bunch of them are pretending they didn't.

I imagine GW Bush K's is precisely the thing they'd ask you to take down at SkyDome.

I would love to see sports, particularly baseball, completely de-politicized. No national anthems, especially not 'God Bless America'.

Why do we have to sing the national anthem before a sporting event? I don't get it. Why not sing it before we watch a movie? Go to a concert? It's stupid, it's a waste of time. It's fascist political herding.

And what I really, really hate are these American Idol-type singers of national anthems who belt it out stylized like the anthem is all about them and not the country they're representing. It's brutal. I guess national anthems will never be dropped from baseball games, but I hope all the showboating can be.

NFH, I'm confused. The Globe and Mail's website is free. You only have to pay if you want to read articles that are more than 7 days old, but the new stuff is free.

Yeah, but I can't grab the website in a few moments and then read it offline on the train every morning on my iBook. At least, not easily or quickly.

They do publish every day in a downloadable pdf for subscribers, but the subscription is more than the paper edition.

Maybe its due to where I stand on the political spectrum, but am I the only one to object to the Ann Coulter/Michael Moore comparison above? Whatever one's problems may be with Moore, and there are legitimate ones to hold, to compare him to a liar who preaches racial discrimination and support for genocidal dictators, among many misguided opinions is too far, in my opinion. Nobody compares to Ann Coulter, nobody.

The Globe's book section is good. I don't know what we're paying for weekend delivery, but it's cheap and a couple of times a year they give us free daily papers to try to convince us to subscribe 6 days a week (and to boost numbers during sweeps). All that convinces us of, tho', is that we don't need a daily paper.

Ye gods.

It is unbelievable how fast newsprint piles up when you have daily home delivery. The sad reality for dailies in Toronto is that a lot of people have the time read a monday-friday paper maybe once a week.

The Globe delivery guy had a talent for dumping my paper in a puddle on my porch on Saturdays, so I had to give that up in favour of buying it. They don't give you much of a deal on delivery anyways, and it's not a big deal to pick one up when I want one.

I'll weigh in on my Globe/Star breakdown.

Globe: Better arts coverage, better international news, better columnists in nearly all areas

Star: Better Toronto coverage, better GTA coverage, better fluff coverage (shopping sections), city items like real estate

The Globe trys to market itself as a paper for the elite and everything mentioned in it is expensive. i.e. car sections covering a BMW not a Toyota Echo.

The Star often has more content for sports. Currently it's the Leafs that get the bulk, the Jays used to get more. Jeff Blair for the Globe is more analytical than Griffin who often rambles and mistakes emotional reactions for facts.

NFH, that's probably the most amazing e-mail exchange in eBay history.

NFH, I think I figured out what your problem is.

You must be spending far too much time at work actually working! Whereas myself, I like to read the box and the newspapers from work.
:)

Go to a ballgame and look at the dugouts during the anthems. Most of the players are nowhere to be found. It's not required.

Of course it isn't required, and I couldn't care less whether he stands outside the dugout, goes to the washroom, picks his nose or does anything else during the song.

But to the extent that anyone is giving him a hard time, and I think he's getting virtually a free ride on this one, unless you're worried about the opinion makers at the Mesabi Daily News, they're mad at him for not observing God Bless America. That's a debatable subject, but no one worth getting upset about is questioning his right to be opposed to the war.

Magpie, the US Senate voted for it, including Kerry and Edwards. Now a bunch of them are pretending they didn't.

"...before I voted against it." OK. Can we say many of them are now having second thoughts? And not just Democrats?

The US Senate voted 98-2 for the Gulf of Tonkin resolution in 1964, which provided the legal authority Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon needed for the war in Vietnam. Many of the Senators who voted for that - which would have included William Fulbright, Edward Kennedy, and Frank Church - came to regret that vote as well.

Maybe its due to where I stand on the political spectrum

It is.

I got a nasty mail back about how they wouldn't ship to Canada because Canada is filled with freedom-hating idiots who don't support the war in Iraq.

I think I liked it better when Americans were just oblivious to us.

Thomas, I don't want to avoid your question, but i've already helped get this thread off topic while talking about newspapers, and I don't really want to talk about politics. I'm sorry if you were offended, but I stand by the comparision. That's all I want to say about it.

Yeah, but I can't grab the website in a few moments and then read it offline on the train every morning on my iBook. At least, not easily or quickly.

They do publish every day in a downloadable pdf for subscribers, but the subscription is more than the paper edition.

More importantly, it _looks_ exactly like the print edition. The website may have the same content, but one doesn't experience the same "flow" they get from reading the real newspaper.

I'm really surprised the electronic version is more expensive. Bits are generally cheaper than newsprint, ink, and distribution.

Maybe your info is out of date? According to the web site, you can buy a 13-week monday-friday subscription for $51.19. That's around $4 per week, which is slightly cheaper than the print edition.

Unfortunately, it looks like it's not a PDF anymore, and the reader software is PC only. Maybe by parting ways with Adobe, they were able to reduce their costs?

NFH, that's probably the most amazing e-mail exchange in eBay history.

Heh, thanks. That's nothing, though, compared to all the baiting of 419 scammers I've done. Once I had one calling me every day at work, and I kept pestering him with really idiotic questions until he answered them. It was even baseball related: his original mail said he needed an investment partner, so I pretended to be a member of the front office staff of the Canadian Baseball League's Montréal Royales, the team with no stadium. I kept asking questions like what name did he want on the stadium? Did he want to honor his deceased father who left the FORTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS in this untouchable account by naming the stadium after him? Eventually he clicked on one of the links in my totally fake signature and saw that the league had gone out of business a month before and accused me of trying to rip him off.

I'll tell you one way the Star and the Sun are like Michael Moore and Ann Coulter. You don't have to read them to find out where they stand on anything. It's known in advance - the same way you used to know in advance that when someone threw a fastabll six inches off the outside corner, Alex Gonzales would swing at it. And miss.

Unfortunately, it looks like it's not a PDF anymore, and the reader software is PC only. Maybe by parting ways with Adobe, they were able to reduce their costs?

Perhaps. I remember it working out to about $40 a month, which was ludicrous. PC only doesn't help me, either -- I have five Macs and nothing else.

Hooray for Macs!

Oh look, I made up a new pitch.

So who's got the best fastabll around these days?

Oh look, I made up a new pitch.

Don't tell Miguel Batista.

Rotoworld is reporting that the Twinkies are trying to pry Dan Wilson from the Mariners. They are offering Restovich. The Mariners want more-no?

Would Restovich for Zaun make sense?

From the Jays perspective, yeah!

If the Twins make that trade (Restovich for Zaun), they're absolutely nuts.

Would Restovich for Zaun make sense?

I think it would make sense for us, on the assumption that the Cat isn't coming back next year. It's too bad he doesn't bad left handed, then he and Johnson could platoon.

Is Estrella still disabled? Who's the catcher if Zaun gets traded?

http://www.sports-wired.com/players/profile.asp?Name=GHCA
I stand by my object to the parallel, and we'll end the discussion.

Yes. Restovich still has some upside, and while the Jays are crowded in the outfield, that's an offer you'd have to take. He's only 25 and he's posted .800 OPS in AAA the last two years, .895 in 2002. COMN for his career minor league stats. He's slugging .500 in AAA this year. There's upside with his bat and even though his defence leaves soemthing to be desired, he'd make a better outfield reserve that what we've had this year.

As long as we're giving up on the season anyhow, why not let Phelps catch if he doesn't seem to be in any other plans?

Restovich for Wilson? If it were true, I think the Twins' heads would still be spinning from the emphatic "YES!" from the Mariners.

The problem with Restovich is his plate discipline is so bad it's almost negative, so I could see him getting eaten alive in the majors. I'd still love to have him, though, as he's a talent, and with the right coaching, he could become really good.

As long as we're giving up on the season anyhow, why not let Phelps catch if he doesn't seem to be in any other plans?

1) Because he's in their other plans, and
2) because his knees won't take it -- that's why he stopped being a catcher.

Okay, so Zaun, Rios and Phelps for Morneau and Restovich? Who's in?

:)

Paul, that needs to be a five team trade that includes Ken Macha and Moffatt's unicorn.

I think any trade of Rios at this point would be foolish.

So the trade is going down like this:

TWINS GET
---
Zaun
Rios
Phelps (all from Jays)

A'S GET
---
Unicorn (from Moffatt)
Tosca (from Jays)

JAYS GET
---
Morneau
Restovich (from Twins)
Macha (from A's)

MOFFATT GETS
---
A pair of J.P.'s shoes (from Jays)
A picture of a monkey on a toilet (from NFH)

NFH GETS
---
Ted Lilly pez dispenser left at Skydome (from Moffatt)

That looks about right. :)

It's too bad he doesn't bad left handed, then he and Johnson could platoon.

3 year splits from espn.com

Reed : vs LHP .891 OPS
vs RHP .646 OPS

Cat : vs LHP .666 OPS
vs RHP .868 OPS

Moffatt, you left out the part where you get Dave Berg and give him to Hannah.

Gwynn, I was referring to Restovich, not Cat.

Moffatt, you left out the part where you get Dave Berg and give him to Hannah.

J.P. wanted too much for Berg, so that deal fell through. Negotiations are hard.

If there's any truth to this, and the Twins have decided that Dan Wilson is the apple of their eye, but he's going to cost more than Restovich, JP should be right there offering Zaun. Greg's played solid defence all year and his OPS is .150 points higher than Wilson. I'm not sure what Wilson offers that Zaun doesn't.

Of course, it'd be nice if the Twins were offering Jesse Crain in the deal instead....

Do you think Fordin has any trade value? His ERA is still zero.

0/0 = 0 and Infinity.... 0 = infinity???

its this kind of thinking that makes Warp Engines possible.

Because I feel like I should put my math degree to use at least once a year, I should point out that 0/0 is indeterminate, not infinity, and definitely not zero.

Gwynn, I was referring to Restovich, not Cat.

whoops! so you were.

Mike, does the Pez [TM] dispenser bat left-handed? That would make a difference.

Back to Delgado. I personally have no problem with what Carlos did. He is using his right to free speech/thought. Just like we are all here.
Now if it had been the anthem then I would have objected, [and been disappointed] I believe one should respect a nations anthem and flag, even if you do not believe in their politics. A politician does not make the country, the people do.

I think we should keep Zaun, we will need him next year to help the pitchers and Kevin Cash develop, although they should maybe let Cash get his at bats. Just like they should give Woodward his ab's. JP keeps saying that he thinks that Woody is a good player but just does not apply himself, how can he when he only plays once a week !

Mike, does the Pez [TM] dispenser bat left-handed? That would make a difference.

No, but you can bat left-handed with the Pez dispenser, as long as the pitcher promises not to throw very hard.

Gang, I was thinking about Josh Towers the other day.

This is proof positive that I really need to get a life, but let that go for now...

Towers intrigues me because so many pitchers have trouble throwing strikes.

Well, Josh throws strikes at will. Its a genuine and unusual talent. What can we do with it?

I was wondering - could he become a Quantrill? Q was the first guy I thought of. There are superficial similarities - they give up a lot of hits, but they never walk anyone.

Q of course is a freak who can pitch 80 games a year without his arm falling off... doubt Josh could do that

The differences between them are significant though. Towers walks even fewer people than Q - but Towers gives up more than twice as many HRs. Q can give up lots of hits because he never walks anyone and never gives up HRs. The only way to beat him is to string a bunch a hits together.

A guy who might be a better comp is Brad Radke, who never walks anyone and gives up lots and lots of HRs. He's much harder to hit though, gives up fewer hits than Q

Also: Q and Radke are both groundball pitchers. Q in particular has been an EXTREME GB pitcher for his career (this year though he's not getting nearly as many. They're starting to whack line drives off him. I fear the reign of the omnipotent and all-knowing Q is coming to a close.)

In the past Towers has not been a GB pitcher; this year however he is suddenly (small sample size, I know) getting many more grounders than fly balls. This has had the bonus of reducing his HR per 9 innings to a much healthier 1.03

He's still got some work to do - he still gives up too many hits, and he needs to get his Ks up just a little (he's at 4.5 per nine, and I think he needs to get up to 5)

But I think I can see how he could make all this work for him...

http://www.thewolfshack.com
I'm neutral on Zaun. If they can trade him for young talent then go for it (although that's probably not realistic). Next year they'll have Cash and Quiroz. If they feel that they need a veteran i imagine they could find one. How hard is it to get journeymen catchers?

Anyone else surprised that Cat is on the roster? Is it better to have a Cat that can't field or run, but can hit, or Howie Clark?

This is what Jayson Stark said about the Jays in his chat today:

Nate Boston: any chance the Red Sox go after Frank Catalanatto to play first base? What would it take to get him?

Jayson Stark: (12:27 PM ET ) The Blue Jays have told teams in the last week they're not trading Frank Catalanotto. Very affordable. And a great veteran presence on an otherwise young team. So that isn't going to work for the Red Sox. That's why they're talking about Larry Walker. They even looked into Olerud, but he prefers to stay on the west coast.

Zeeshan (Toronto): What would it take for the Jays to acquire Morneau from the Twins?

Jayson Stark: (12:43 PM ET ) Minnesota isn't trading Morneau or Michael Cuddyer, because when you operate with a $55-million payroll, you graduate some seniors every year, and you need young guys (translation: cheap help) to replace them. With Corey Koskie departing and a possibility Doug Mientkiewicz could do the same, the Twins have to keep those two guys.

Take that for what it's worth.

Towers had trouble getting started out of the pen when he was moved to middle relief earlier in the year. That might be something correctable with experience but his preference is clearly for starting.

Towers also got bombed out of the pen last year. He's pretty honest about his shortcomings - I think he's acknowledged that he can only be of use to a team as a starter.

Whether there's an actual explanation for that, or whether he just doesn't apply himself sufficiently as a reliever, I don't know.

I don't mean to hijack this fine political/newspaper/trade Zaun for a legit, major-league ready prospect discussion, but I felt that I should respond to some of the stuff you guys said yesterday - sorry I wasn't able to do it earlier.

First of all, thank you for even noticing the 3 1/2 minutes I did on SportsNet. I was wondering if any of you guys would think enough of it to discuss it, and there was a LOT more discussion than I could ever have imagined.

Second, the fact that my appearance on TV spurred you all into a discussion of which TV sportscaster you find the hottest is very disturbing. I'm frightened.

The comparison to Mike Weir was a very strange one, but the comparison to Mike Harris (the curler) has inspired me to go on a serious weight-loss kick. This country doesn't need more than one goofy-looking, bespectacled fat guy on national television. I'm going to try to get down to just goofy-looking and bespectacled.

Oh, and Thomas, the testing off Puerto Rico, not the DR, but I'm glad that you were listening! (no sarcasm intended, honest)

And finally, is there a cuttlefish out there someone could present to Coach? He was bang-on. 5'11 3/4".

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/nnq-21july04/
Magpie, COMN for an Aaron Gleeman article about low BB/high HR starters. You'll see Josh Towers name near the top of the chart.
As you can see, these guys can be effective. But, as you say, it sure helps if they strike out 5 per game.

Josh seems to fit the starter's role. When he's on, he seems to me to get stronger as he goes. Heck, I'll check. Here are his 3 year splits. He does seem to fade after 60 pitches. Maybe long relief and spot starting is his future.

On another topic, the Mets called up David Wright. Whither Ty Wigginton?

I listened to 1050 espn radio in ny this morning
micheal kay, broadcaster for yankee games on the yes network,
has a show and brought up the delgado issue. He prefaced his rant
that he likes delgado and thinks he's a class act. He then went on that he doesnt like the protest because he thinks its inappropriate. Most of the callers said they didnt like the idea but werent foaming at the mouth for delgado's head. Historicaly, a female basketball player at manhatanville college turned her back during the anthem and got a lot of flack (this occured around the start of Iraq war). I think delgado wont get much flackbecause: 1. the perception of the war in Iraq has changed since it started, 2. yankees fans (who I wouldn't call liberal) booed when dick cheny's face appeared on the jumbo tron during a game a couple a week, 3. his form of protest seems more low key than the basketball player

of course, the protest should extend to when the stadium thowes on the disco cowboy singing cotton eye joe.

Whither Ty Wigginton?

Wiggington makes a nice upgrade over Joe McEwing in the utility role, he was a second baseman in the minors, and for tonight at least he will take over at first for Piazza. You have to assume though he'll be shopped for pitching, if the press rumours are true. He has an OPS of around .820 this year so there is a good chance someone will bite at that.

J.P. wanted too much for Berg, so that deal fell through. Negotiations are hard.

and later on,

And finally, is there a cuttlefish out there someone could present to Coach? He was bang-on. 5'11 3/4".

What if I interject myself and Coach into the deal? I can swap this forbidden picture of HOT, HOT CUTTLEFISH LOVIN'



for Coach's Knowledge of Wilner's True Height, which I can flip to the Jays along with half a Diet Coke for Berg. I can then flip Berg to Moffatt in exchange for some spare punctuation marks and a hair colour to be named later, and Moffatt can trade Berg to Hannah in exchange for an indefinite period of bachelor freedom.

So the deal now becomes:

TWINS GET
---
Zaun
Rios
Phelps (all from Jays)

A'S GET
---
Unicorn (from Moffatt)
Tosca (from Jays)

JAYS GET
---
Morneau
Restovich (from Twins)
Macha (from A's)
Knowledge of Wilner's True Height (from Coach)

MOFFATT GETS
---
A pair of J.P.'s shoes (from Jays)
A picture of a monkey on a toilet (from NFH)
An indefinite period of bachelor freedom (from Hannah)

HANNAH GETS
---
Dave Berg (from Jays)

NFH GETS
---
Ted Lilly pez dispenser left at Skydome (from Moffatt)

BURLEY GETS
---
Spare punctuation + HCTBNL (from Moffatt)

COACH GETS
---
Hot, hot photographic cuttlefish love (from Burley)

I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays did hold onto Catalanotto. He's basically damaged goods and won't be 100% all season, from the sounds of it; accordingly, they're not going to get hardly anything for him in a trade. Cat seems to love the city and organization, and it appears to be mutual; JP really likes his classy veterans (cf. Mike Bordick). If Delgado leaves as expected, Cat would become the team's elder statesman and mentor to the young players.

Cat wouldn't have much of a place in the 2005 Toronto outfield. Vernon's in center, Rios is in right, and I expect an Opening Day platoon of Reed Johnson and Gabe Gross in left. But with Josh Phelps presumably moving to to first base, there'll be a full-time opening at DH, and a healthy Catalanotto (free of defensive wear-and-tear) could be perfect there. Consider this possible April 2005 lineup:

DH Catalanotto
3B Hinske
CF Wells
1B Phelps
LF Gross/Johnson
RF Rios
C Whomever (Cash/Zaun/Myers/Quiroz?)
2B Hudson
SS Adams

Against tough lefties, Johnson leads off in left field and you pick up a lefty-mashing DH/PH to spell Cat. As Russ Adams gets settled in, you could move him up to the #2 spot and put even more .350-OBP runners on base for the big guns. That's not bad, and it wouldn't cost you considerably more than this year's lineup (minus Delgado's salary, plus incremental raises for others). Sink the leftover money into another starting pitcher (Halladay, FA, Batista, Lilly, Bush), and suddenly the Jays look pretty interesting.

Is "HCTBNL" "Hair Colour To Be Named Later" or "Hot Cuttlefish To Be Nuzzled Later" or "Hannah Can ..." no, I'll leave that one unfinished. So, what is it?

I think that if the Jays don't resign Carlos they need to try to get some power for 1B/DH. Richie Sexson is a possibility, although I can see him being too expensive.

Isn't it pretty odd to travel West to East without a day off??
Even with an early start,...

Moffatt can trade Berg to Hannah in exchange for an indefinite period of bachelor freedom.

I don't think I like this deal very much. I imagine the boss will veto that one.

Plus, you, want, me, to, give, you, all, my, excessive, commas, and, I'm, just, not, going, to, do, it,,,.

Sorry I wasn't around to award the cuttlefish. Instead Coach will have to take NFH's monkey picture:

Why do we have to sing the national anthem before a sporting event? I don't get it. Why not sing it before we watch a movie? Go to a concert? It's stupid, it's a waste of time. It's fascist political herding.

As a matter of fact, the national anthem did used to be played at movie theatres (or so I was told)

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?id=91850
Here's an article on the Blue Jays current financial state. COMN

There's a pretty decent discussion of the Delgado pseudo-situation going down over at Primer, in case anybody here missed it.

Why is that monkey in a prison cell wearing a combat helmet? Is he a POW? Is the ship there to rescue him?

http://www.poppolitics.com/articles/2003-02-28-flagprotest.shtml
COMN for a history on national anthems at sporting events.

I'm not an accountant, if there's any here maybe you can help me out.
But aren't operating losses the real concern? If you can write off palyer contracts and get an accounting loss, that's a good thing, right? Then you can bring down the Rogers tax bill. What's important is how much more they're spending than they're bringing in.

Is that correct?

Why is that monkey in a prison cell wearing a combat helmet? Is he a POW?

He's not only a POW, he's a brigadier general!

Why is that monkey in a prison cell wearing a combat helmet? Is he a POW? Is the ship there to rescue him?

And here I was more focused on the fact that the toilet seems to be positioned out in the middle of the room somewhere with the flush mechanism hanging from the ceiling. I mean can the monkey even reach the toilet paper from where he's sitting? I cant tell.

I was away, and now I'm back, and then I'm going again...

R Billie, Four Seamer, Mike Green - I agree with everybody!!

I don't think Josh could become Q - I think he has to figure out how to become Brad Radke...

A thought about Carlos - for a professional baseball player, he hasn't spent all that much of his working life based in the United States. He still lives in Puerto Rico. He spent two seasons mostly in Syracuse, others in Knoxville, Myrtle Beach and Dunedin. He came out of Puerto Rico at the age of 17 and played in St Catherines for his first two seasons. And all his pay cheques came from a Canadian beer company, a Belgian beer company, and a Canadian media conglomerate.

Not that it means much of anything, but it's probably a fairly unusual career path...

Hot, hot photographic cuttlefish love (from Burley)

That's a typical trade offer if you're in a league with Craig, by the way. Wilner may have overpaid here. His height was easy -- 1/8" shorter than Fordin. On the other hand, Mike gets to sit beside Hazel Mae, so no wonder he's handing out cuttlefish.

Coach will have to take NFH's monkey picture

Now you're talking -- and I'm keeping my fornicating cuttlefish. Still, there are a couple of big problems with this deal. It includes Rios, and Hannah deserves much more from the Jays for restoring Berg's mojo with the called-shot homer.

Sink the leftover money into another starting pitcher

Jordan, as a post-Delgado scenario, this is a great plan. Halladay, FA, Batista, Lilly, Bush is fun to ponder, and Reed/Gross/Cat/Phelps would work. Your lineup is a bit short on power but has great OBP potential; Adams as a 9-hitter until he learns the ropes makes sense. I also hope they will spend whatever it takes to get a reliable lefty reliever, because shopping in that particular bargain bin hasn't worked out so far.

Losses are never a good thing. However, the important thing now is cash flow. Are the Jays generating cash or burning it. The last numbers I've seen was Rogers still advancing cash to the Jays to fund operations. This is not good. What we don't know and I haven't been able to tell from their statements is whether interdivisional payments between Sportsnet and Jays, FAN and Jays etc. are at market levels or not.

And here I was more focused on the fact that the toilet seems to be positioned out in the middle of the room somewhere with the flush mechanism hanging from the ceiling. I mean can the monkey even reach the toilet paper from where he's sitting? I cant tell.

That picture asks as many questions as it answers. What's with the red jacket and yellow drawers? Why is he wearing a combat helmet in jail? How does a monkey get promoted to O-7 in the U.S. army? So many questions.

What's that? Did somebody say "monkey on a toilet"? Good thing I have a whole archive of pictures saved up for this very purpose!

Are there armed guards posted outside that window? That's a pretty stocky monkey, especially by military standards, but I would bet he could escape by slipping right through those bars.

THAT'S where my copy of "Banana News" went! I was looking for that.

That picture asks as many questions as it answers.

Just as a side note, I find it perplexing and weird that Mike thinks a painting of a monkey on a toilet answers any questions at all. What kind of freaking questions do you _ask_!?

The first monkey picture reminds me of the movie adaption of Catch-22. I believe it was Major Major Major Major who was on the can when Cardinal came in to speak to him. There was a great escape out the toilet window as well.

You all know the original ...
How much is that doggie in the window? (arf! arf!)
The one with the waggley tail
How much is that doggie in the window? (arf! arf!)
I do hope that doggie's for sale

Now, sing along with Moffatt and the PinkHairs:
How much is that monkey on the toilet? (flush! flush!)
Wearing that jacket so red
How much is that monkey on the toilet? (flush! flush!)
And what's with the thing on his head?

of course, the protest should extend to when the stadium thowes on the disco cowboy singing cotton eye joe.

Jay Fan In Brooklyn is so right about this. If you've been to Yankee Stadium within the last five years, you understand.

I'd like to point out that this is the greatest Roundup thread ever.

...greatest roundup thread ever. Indeed, and as was the practice in movie theatres across Canada in the fifties and sixties, may we stand for God Save the Queen when the lights go up?

Jordan - I agree with the concept of your player moves and line-up but I do think Coach's point is right - that line-up lacks slugging percentage. The plan as it looked last year was to get the punch in '05 from Hinske, Wells, Phelps and from new corner outfielders in Gross/Rios. Right now that's not looking too good. Wells is solid but as we all know someone stole the power from Hinske/Phelps. Both might come back but Phelps looks to have worn out his welcome and Hinse has slugged in the low .400's and below since the All Star break in his first year. Gross hasn't really done anything this year to suggest that we should expect big power from him and Rios doesn't look ready to hit 20-30 HR's next year (maybe in a few years). Wells might be the only guy in that line-up that posts a SLG over .450 which is scary. There's good potential for high OBP in that line-up though.

The comparison to Mike Weir was a very strange one, but the comparison to Mike Harris (the curler) has inspired me to go on a serious weight-loss kick. This country doesn't need more than one goofy-looking, bespectacled fat guy on national television. I'm going to try to get down to just goofy-looking and bespectacled.

Aw, I feel terrible about that comparison now Mike! I didn't mean to make you feel bad!

If it's any consolation though, there's no shame in having the physique of a silver medal winning Olympian!

Ryan Church is the Terrmel Sledge of 2004.

Apparently, using ones brain (although its more like the obvious at this point) is suddenly anti-American.. somewhere Bush is smiling.

Wow. Craig's right.

.349/.443/.633. That speaks for itself.

On another topic, the Mets called up David Wright. Whither Ty Wigginton?

Well, for now Wigginton will play 1B with Piazza out with a bad wrist.

The absence of power in that lineup is a reasonable concern, and there's a strong argument to be made that DH is a position with a 25-HR minimum. I do think, though, that DH is Cat's only reasonable slot, so if they intend to bring him back, that's where he'll end up. If the answer is to get a Sexson or Glaus to play 1B post-Delgado, then you certainly have more guaranteed power in the middle, and that can't hurt.

That said, Hinske is slugging about .470 since June 1, Phelps is at a nice solid .722 SLG in July, and Wells is still good for 30-35 HRs in a full season. Rios had 54 XBH and a .522 SLG in New Haven last year, and that hasn't disappeared; his adjustment to the big leagues has been remarkably fast (who foresaw a .300 average at this point, even with few walks and power?) and he's still just 23 and skinny. He'll add more muscle and power next season. I wouldn't say no to a big bopper at DH, but even without one, I think there's enough latent power here to justify Catalanotto at DH, even if just in the short term.

It's a good Roundup thread, but it could be made better....

you all know what I'm talking about...

Teams actually want to trade for Cory Lidle! Read it in Sports Weekly (3 grains of salt) in the Rumor Box (2 more grains there).

Yes, Corey (Cory?) Lidle is *desired* around MLB. When will it end?

Seriously though, Moffatt, put the finishing touches on this thread with Keith Talent's picture of Hazel Mae. It's 10-3 in the Bronx...I need some reason to stay awake.

Speaking of Hazel, does anyone have the issue or pictures of Hazel and two other sports broadcasters in Urban Male Magazine?