I sure hope Bush can get his first big league dubya this afternoon.

Thank goodness there's a game I can watch live for once. Mind you most of the games I didn't see live were so grim that it was a pleasure to watch bits of them at fast-forward speed.

Oh boy those pictures of the different pitching grips are awesome, I wish the fox sportsnet channels would do those. I've been trying to google for those sorts of pictures, with little success, for ages.

I seem to be the only person here but I'm quite happy talking to myself.

I like the lineup. An outfield of Johnson, Wells, Rios looks strong. Infield of Hinske, Gomez, Hudson, Delgado also looks okay. Cash gets a start behind the plate. I hope we don't see too much more of Zaun -- much as I like the sound of his character there is an inevitability about his regression to career hitting performance.

Anyone else having problems with the TV reception?

I want more Woodward. And DHing Zaun isn't the same as giving him a day off.

Is the game on TV at all?

I'm at work listening to the radio.

Oops I hadn't spotted that Zaun is DH-ing. I cannot understand the organisation's treatment of Phelps (and I daresay Cat will DH a fair bit when he comes back so Phelps' playing time will be limited further). With Cash at least we know that a better prospect is coming soon (Quiroz).

They're not exactly making it tough on the Canuck, are they? Two innings, fifteen pitches!

And Phelps is on the bench again! While Zaun DHes.

The Jays must want to get home pretty badly. Sixteen pitches to get through 2 innings. Not really a good philosophy against a starter whose primary problem has been wildness and going deep into games.

Were I managing this what I would trot out:

Johnson, LF
Rios, RF
Wells, CF
Delgado, DH
Phelps, 1B
Hinske, 3B
Woodward, SS
Cash, C
Hudson, 2B

Given that Harden really brings the heat from the right side, I guess they feel Phelps can't handle that kind of pace. His breakout games against Seattle came against a couple of soft tossers, after all.

The regression of Phelps is a real mystery to me, but there's not much point in denying that the Jays are convinced he's not going to amount to much.

Are you playing Phelps at 1B in preparation for Delgado leaving and Phelps taking over there? Delgado seems to be a perfectly good first baseman and Phelps isn't (yet) so it's a bit of a risk.

Re Woodward vs Gomez, I have no strong feelings. I have never thought that Woodward was up to the task of becoming our everyday SS and Gomez plays solidly.

Never mind! The Tv has returned, like Lazarus, from the dead.

I'm resting Delgado, day game after night - and he's not far removed from the DL. Phelps will be rusty at first but THAT'S NOT MY BLOOD FAULT!! Woodward's swinging a hot bat and needs to get some live time at SS. Granted: Woodward throwing to Phelps could be a little scary. But I'm making a statement. Is it Woodward's defence that everyone has trouble with?

I really could care less for Woodward.

The sooner he is out of the picture at SS for the Jays, the better.

Candiotti can definitely pick out those hit-and-runs.

Well-timed HBP with two strikes on Cash.

Crikey, looks like Hudson would have been caught easily had they not stuffed up the throw.

Keith, my feeling about Woodward is that it's the whole package. Offence in important situations, defense, all just a bit below par somehow. He just looks like he's going to fail, and all these comments from Tosca about him never fulfulling his potential (is he trying???) worry me a great deal. But like I said, I don't feel strongly about Gomez vs Woodward at SS right now.

Just tuned in... who's sitting with Jerry today?

The regression of Phelps is a real mystery to me, but there's not much point in denying that the Jays are convinced he's not going to amount to much.

It might look like that from the outside, but I don't think that's the organization's feeling about him.

Craig, I just missed his name...he's a broadcaster with someone's minor league system...I missed whose.

I'm not very helpful.

It might look like that from the outside, but I don't think that's the organization's feeling about him.

I hope you're right, but if they are still high on him, their treatment of him is awful perplexing.

It might look like that from the outside, but I don't think that's the organization's feeling about him.

Okay, the situation as we see it is consistent with either a) they think he's useless and can't even be bothered to try to showcase him for a trade or b) they think they can fix him up with more time with the coaches and less in play, this year. b) does make sense because this season is a mess anyway.

I wish I believed that it would work; it seems a big ask to fix the technique of a 26 year old with a big loopy swing. If it does work we might have a good team next year or 2006. If it doesn't, we have a big hole in the team for quite a while, or we overpay for a FA.

Say it with me... GOING, GOING, ZAUN!

Going where? Florida?

Nobody said it with me, so it didn't work.

But if Zauny goes to Florida we'll have to teach some Floridians the chant.

I don't remember his name but the guy in the booth with Jerry Howarth is the radio announcer for the A's AAA Sacramento club.

I'm developing a substantial liking for this kid David Bush.

I think Jerry's partner is excellent.

Check out the linescore, but NOBODY SAY ANYTHING.

That's our Bush!

Donnie something -- I'm liking him too.

Kevin Cash kinda looks like a young Dracula.

YEEEHAW!

AND strikes him out!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240720107
Karim Garcia arrives in Baltimore, and promptly hits 2 homers and drives in 5. COMN. Exhibit A to the law of small sample sizes-"youneverknow".

Sweet. What a call by the manager.

Thought Gomez got rid of the ball a little quick on the run down, but Carlos and Dog finished it off nicely.

And another super play by Hinske! Who is this guy?

This is the all-defense Jays.

Ken Macha's fighting with the ump? Is the unicorn with him?

They got the runner, but I think they need to practice those run-downs more often.

Scutaro is evil. Hooray for Hinske.

Good defensive inning by the Jays!

Bush : NOBODY SAY ANYTHING.

What a sweet, sweet, sweet inning.

"If you're attempting to steal from the Cash register, you're gonna get caught." The young Jim Sundberg comparisons were right on target.

Heh. MLB Gameday got so confused by that inning that it froze in the middle and only just came back.

Can the Jays offense PLEASE support the kid!?!?! Come on already. How about some runs?

The announcers just mentioned that the Jays have agreed to terms with LHP Zach Jackson from Texas A & M.

GREAT NEWS!!

I have a good feeling about Delgado here.

Awww, crap.

Was that pitch as far out of the zone as it appears on Gameday?

Wow, Delgado nearly picked up dirt with the end of his bat on that one.

So I guess it's official. 15 poor at-bats followed by a homer or two.

With all this defense it sounds like a fun game to be watching.

Hey, do the A's always have lousy attendance, or is it just when the Jays are in town?

Well at least you made me laugh, Hank.

I wonder what kind of pitch count Bush will be on today? If he can keep his control problems down, he'll be sitting pretty.

Can the Jays offense PLEASE support the kid!?!?! Come on already. How about some runs?

So I guess it's official. 15 poor at-bats followed by a homer or two.

Whine whine whine. We get it already.

Well at least you made me laugh, Hank.

We does what we can.

Wow. Nice at bat from Kotsay.

YEAH, siddown Kotsay!

That was great - 12 pitches, 10 strikes. But let's hope there's something still in the tank.

It was good, but Bush won it. ;)

Dammit. Why can't I be at home watching this?

Geez, we better come up with a really nice K for Bush before he pitches at home next.

STRUCK OUT THE SIDE!

Whine whine whine. We get it already.

Just trying to rally the troops so a brilliant outing isn't wasted. What's with this attitude?

David's bringing the heat a bit in this game! He hit 92 mph to Chavez just now.

Yes!

And wow, Bush K's the side!!

Is this kid great or what?

And even after the Kotsay AB, and K'ing the side, he's thrown 6 fewer pitches than Harden.

Man, these two guys could be an awful lot of fun to watch for the next ten years or so...

...if they don't get hurt....

It was a great inning but it does have pitchcount implications. I would have thought that 100-105 pitches would have been the maximum heading into the start today.

Geez, we better come up with a really nice K for Bush before he pitches at home next.

How about a burning bush?

Will this start put to rest the idea that Cash doesn't handle the pitchers well?

Well it's official. I'm leaving work to go catch the rest of the game. I'll be at, ugh, Spirits on Church and Bloor if anyone needs me.

And by "needs me", I mean "misses my hilarious and thought provoking posts". ;)

Can you say pitchers duel?! This has to be one of the best games we've been involved in all year from a pitching stand point.

I'm sure they'll David pitch count up to 120 as long as he's doing fine. He's been starting without a problem all year.

Unfortunately it looks like the Jays could bat all day and not score.

We're halfway through the sixth? Holy crap, this game is flying past.

I wish I could be watching this one.

Geez, we better come up with a really nice K for Bush before he pitches at home next.

I vote for a picture of Dick Cheney.

A burning bush sounds good!

Bush Almost Seems To Be Getting Stronger As The Game Goes On.

Harden breezes through another inning. I'm wondering if the hitters have a really poor hitting backdrop in day games at this park.

Four straight. Wow.

Maybe he just needs a beautiful golden K.

David Bush is offically the Blue Jays new Golden Boy. Break out the gold K's for Skydome!

Bush Almost Seems To Be Getting Stronger As The Game Goes On.

That's my favourite song!

DOG!! DOG!! DOG!!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

I'm a transplanted Canadian and Jays fan down here in PA. Watching the game on MLB Gameday and missing seeing my boys on TV! Who is this Bush guy? Way better than the one down here (Dubya). Go Jays!

By the sounds of the radio, Hudson just made an outstanding play to end the bottom of the 7th.

Hudson saves the day with a diving stab of a Durazo liner! Still scoreless through 7 innings.

Listening to the game on the net, kinda not paying too much attention to it until I realized how late in the game it is... :)

How bout we get a run or two.

Way to be O-Dog! or as Faulds would say GOOD DOG!!

It was a full length dive at a line drive that was already past him into RF for a base hit. Tremendous play.

Go aught dog!

That was (yet another) outstanding play by Hudson. With Bret Boone's bat softening up, could he win the Gold Glove this year?

Hey, everybody, what'd I miss --

NOBODY SAY ANYTHING

Oh, right-ho. Just sitting here at work. (whistles)

I really like this guy paired with Jerry today. How come no major league team has scooped him up? How about that call on O-Dog's catch? Outstanding.

95 pitches for both starters through 7 innings. Only one hit the entire game. Talk about evenly matched.

This is awesome!
I don't have speakers at work, so I'm left with ESPN's gamecast, but this is still fun.

Can we just get some runs for this kid? We need something to cheer about in this season... We got the top of the order coming up.

NOBODY SAY ANYTHING

Too bad Howarth had to spoil it... he should know better.

Who is this Bush guy?

He's a callup. Looked really good in two outings that should have been wins for him so far.

Think Billy Beane will let us borrow this Harden guy for Athens?

What an incredible catch by Hudson. Wow! Bush owes him a big thanks.

What a pitching duel.

Why can't we get a run to help out Bush? This is three games in a row that the offence hasn't supported him.

That was fast...

Harden is pitching a gem of his own with 8 strikeouts through 8 innings and just 107 pitches to this point. He could easily go another inning. Maybe even two. Bush has been great but he'll have to keep bringing it.

And down goes Hudson, Cash and Johnson with relative ease. Lets give some props to Rich Harden, he's matched Bush pitch for pitch. What a game.

I will definitely be watching the highlights tonight. This game sounds astounding.

Faulds just said that Harden is only 22! How do the As get so many good young pitchers?

Damn! Who was talking?

Damn. 7 1/3 without a hit. I'm going to stand up and applaud right now in my office.

:(

Dammit.

I'm leaving work, bolting to a pub.

Why does it always end right after somebody says it? Cerutti mentions the no-hitter and instantly Miller breaks it up. Great shame.

Awww, crap...

Off the top of my head, one of the best pitching duels I can remember the Jays being part of.

Anyone remember Appier-Hentgen, 1994 I think. It was Pat's 14 K game.

If I hadn't left Bush on the bench in Alomar this would never have happenned :)

...never mind.

I'll still go watch the end of this one though.

Now let's get the W.

Jerry mentioned it at the end of the last inning, too. And my wife mentioned it in the fifth. And Craig's hints were heavy handed, while I'm at it. ;)

Who would you rather have - Harden or Bush?

We should know from Dave Stieb, that no hits through 7 is a LONG, LONG way from a no-hitter.

If we lose this game because we can't hit after Bush's effort...

The ump's had a tight strike zone, making both performances even more remarkable.

If you know any Cubs fans, keep an eye on them to make sure they don't jump off a ledge or something. 8-2 lead over the Cardinals up in smoke.

If I'm right, O-Dog is the only base runner to get as far as 2nd base today (he made it to 3rd).

Yeah, check out Pujols' line today, 5 for 5, 3 HR, 1 2b, 4 runs, 5 rbi...

Alright, just ... one... run!

Holy Cow, look at Pujols line for the day!!

5/5
4 runs
5 rbi
3 HR

98 MPH in the 9th inning?

Sick.

Okay, let's get one of those "run" things I've been hearing about now...

Yay Hinske!

Who would you rather have - Harden or Bush?

Am I the only one with a dirty enough mind to snicker at this question?

Eric! Yes, c'mon Vernon.

Through 8 innings:

Bush 107 pitches, 71 strikes, 1 hit, 3 BB, 6 K
Harden 107 pitches, 65 strikes, 1 hit, 2 BB, 8 K

I think we'll see one more inning from both pitchers unless the Jays score in the top of the 9th.

Hinske starts it off right with a single up the middle.

Mark J - JINX!!!

Another thing...

YAY DOTEL IS WARMING!!

Dotel is the master of the "oops, I think I just left my heater right over the middle of the plate!!"

Who would you rather have - Harden or Bush?

Kind of like to have both, dontcha think?

Dirty, dirty...

There, I finally got the italics right. You can tell I don't write a lot of HTML.

Who would you rather have - Harden or Bush?

One's no good without the other, I'd think.

Delgado pops up alot... Ever notice that?

Now would be an excellent time for "Going, going, Zaun!!"

Great great game by Harden. And Macha is absolutely right to come and get him now.

Now would be an excellent time for Rios' 1st HR.

Now would be the perfect time for Rios' first dinger.

If I'm running the team I pull Bush after 8. He goes 8 innings giving up only 4 baserunners and no runs - that's gotta be a pretty good confidence booster.

The best that'll happen if he's left in is that he'll get a no-decision (assuming the Jays don't score). But if you leave him in he could lose the game making the previous great innings an afterthought.

Plus he's at 107 pitches. No need for any more tired shoulders.

GOING, GOING, ZAUN!!

GOING, GOING, ZAUN!!

GOING, GOING, ZAUN!!

GOING, GOING, ZAUN!!

Okay, if Alex does good here it will greatly increase the chances of our first child being named Alex.

Alex Rios up facing Octavio Dotel in an absolutly HUGE spot.

Here's hoping that 'Lexi can just get a little base hit here.

Or a bases-clearing triple.

Very happy about (i) Bush's amazing outing (just tuned in); (ii) no damage found in Halladay's shoulder.

AGONY!!!!!!

I wouldn't mind if Alex were to provide one of his patented four-run triples right about now...

Or a Delgado-esque pop up to foul territory, for that matter.

Nuts.

Man, that last inning was so exciting that I took my radio with me when I went to the bathroom.

Any complaints today about JP's draft choices?

Uh oh, it's McLemore pinch-hitting for Byrnes.

In Chulk we trust.

Nooooo! Bring back The Golden Boy! Chulk is gonna blow this... :'(

I absolutely agree with Tosca's decision here to pull Bush. 107 pitches is enough for now.

It seems to have gotten lost in the commotion, but Zach Jackson was signed today.

I totally disagree with his selection of pitchers though. Speier Or Frasor should've been called in.

i agree with pulling bush... but i just dont trust chulk, he's been in a bad funk of late.

Yep, keep 'em off of second.

Ok we got the obligatory McLemore hit out of the way. Falling behind to Chavez he can't give in. Get him to chase at the knees. He grounds to short but the Jays can't turn the double play on the slow chopper.

i agree with pulling bush... but i just dont trust chulk, he's been in a bad funk of late.

My feelings exactly.

Can Frasor go more than 1 today?

Pistol, I agree. There is no way he'd be pulled if he had a no-no. As it was, I imagine from all I've read of Bush that he'd be unhappy not to go out there for the ninth.

I like both moves by Tosca.
1) Taking out Bush
2) Bringing in Chulk

I have no faith in guys like Speier or Adams, and you still want to keep Frasor available.

Oh man!!!

ALEX is a living god!!!

Yeah, RIOS!

OK, there's still a chance that we'll name the kid Alex.

Can Frasor go more than 1 today?

He could but he pitched last night, and it wasnt a very quick inning. I don't think I would send him out for 2.

Way to go Rios!

Chulk hits 96 against Dye. Rios makes a diving catch on a hard liner! I'd say he's getting the hang of the outfield.

I understand the sentiment about Chulk but one of the criticism's of Tosca (by me as well) is that he has had a revolving door of roles in the pen. Yes, Chulk has struggled his last 2 or 3 outings but I vote for seeing a more stable pen and keeping Chulk as the key high leverage non-closer pitcher. It may backfire but I think its defensible.

Damn straight. The Vincredible one proves me wrong. Its good to be wrong sometimes.

Vinny gets out of it. You can't give up on the kid just because he struggles a few games.

hey, chulk did it. to extra innings we go...

it's a shame we couldn't get bush a win, he certainly deserved it. (of course, harden did too.) Appaulse for both.

Didn't the Jays and A's have a low scoring, extra inning game (scoreless?) last year?

EXTRA INNINGS, BABY!

Cubs cough up an 8-2 lead and lose 11-8 to the Cardinals. Isringhausen gets Aramis Ramirez with the bases loaded to end the game.

98 years... do I hear 99??

Twice in three starts, Bush's opposing pitcher has thrown up nothing but zeroes. Each time, Bush has matched 'im, and left the game unscored upon.

Off to extras, but Bush vs. Harden is a story.

Hey Kevin, how 'bout some pop?!

.....Or not.....

It's okay, they're setting up Alex Rios to get the game winning run so that I'll name the kid after him. That's fine by me.

Interesting to bring in Frasor now. I suppose Tosca feels he is more apt to go 2 innings than Chulk.

I've all but given up on Kevin Cash as a hitter. His defense is incredible though and he's got a rocket arm so I guess he sticks as the backup catcher.

From Baseball America's weekly prospect hotlist, in the 'Special Mention' category:

"Glenn Williams, 3b, Triple-A Syracuse (Blue Jays)

Eleven years ago, Williams was one of the biggest stories in the Baseball America universe, a 16-year-old Australian shortstop with tools galore who received a $800,000 signing bonus. After six disappointing seasons with the Braves in which he recorded more strikeouts than hits, Williams has become an organizational player in the Blue Jays system (the team that initially battled Atlanta to sign him in '93), spending his last three years at Syracuse while nearing his 1,000th minor league game played without ever reaching the majors. Enjoying the best season of his career (.265-21-65), the now 27-year-old utilityman is expected to be a primary run producer on the Australian Olympic squad."

Interesting to bring in Frasor now. I suppose Tosca feels he is more apt to go 2 innings than Chulk.

That's an odd decision, consider the fact that Frasor pitched just last night and has a history of arm troubles that have caused him to get extra rest this season.

Chulk on the other hand is an ex-starting pitcher and is more than able to go 2 innings.

What makes the decision even more interesting is the fact that Frasor must face Durazo, who homered to right off him last night.

Well, I'm headed home...good thing the radio is portable.

Cheer for me!

Albert Pujols day at the office:

1st inning - RBI double, Cards up 1-0

3rd inning - solo HR, Cards down 7-2

6th inning - leadoff 2B, starts the 4 run rally that cuts the Cubs
lead to 8-6

7th inning - solo HR, Cards down 8-7

9th inning - two run HR, Cards take 10-8 lead.

Sometimes numbers do tell the whole story. That's absolutely true with Kevin Cash. He just isn't ready offensively for the major leagues. He had zero chance against Dotel. I know Dotel's tough but you could just see from watching the AB that he had no chance. I remember a game against Baltimore last year in which I commented that we were witnessing the two worst hitters then in the majors (non-pitcher category) in Cash and Cust. Cust has gone back to AAA and really, offensively, that's where Cash belongs. I'm not sure his arm is enough reason to keep him around.

Yay Aaron!!

Not to discount the performances of Bush and Harden because they were both awesome but the other thing that's apparent today is that we're watching two pretty bad offensive teams.

Great inning by Frasor.

It looks like this inning could be one of the Jays best chances to get on the board. They've got the top of the lineup coming up and they could possibly push the inning to Delgado which would be huge.

Dotel still in there though, doing his best Mariano Rivera impersonation... minus the save situation.

I think that may be it for Frasor for today.. But the real bad news here is who's left in the bullpen.... Terry Adams, Justin Speier and Kerry Ligtenberg.. Please, not today..

Adams warming up. Oh god.

I don't think Oakland is a BAD offensive team. They're middle of the pack. They're 9th in the league in scoring, and they play half their games in one of the two best pitcher's parks in the AL. Middle of the pack.

Now Seattle, Kansas City... there's some BAD offense...

Are our bats that bad or is Oakland's pitching that good?

I'd say a little bit of both Mike.

Incredible, I think Vernon Wells has taken get this, 5 PITCHES, in this entire series!!

That's 10 plate appearances and only 5 pitches taken. What happened to the plate discipline?

I'm so upset that I missed the first six innings of this game. Why wasn't I told it was an early start?

Heh.

Oh well, at least I'll watch the finish. Adams will do OK, it's not a save situation.

Hey.. I heard somewhere that Phelps was used as a pitcher in High School.. Just saying this so you won't be shocked in the 20th inning.

I fear Mark Kotsay!!

Terry Adams has to be brought in to some games. How else will JP trick some GM into trading for him?

Could someone tell Vernon that he doesn't have to swing every time they throw him a strike?

One called strike in last night's game. He swung at everything else.

One called strike today. He swung at everything else except the five pitches outside the strike zone, four of them for his walk in the sixth. Five fouls, three swing-and-a-miss, three outs on balls in play.

Meanwhile, there have been five hits in this ball game, and a guy who didn't get off the bench until the 9th inning has two of them.

That's the way Vernon has always approached his at-bats and it shouldn't change. Not everyone has to take pitches to be successful.

Especially in his last at-bat against Harden, it was late in the game and your trying to get the guy who's dominated all day out of the game. Making him throw 1 or 2 pitches isn't really going to work him that much.

True - I don't expect him to start walking 85 times a year. But would you throw him a strike? And if so, why?

It's clear what we need.

Bring in the heroics of Dave Berg.

"Bring in the heroics of Dave Berg."

Never thought I'd read those words on a Blue Jays board!

Ryan, Berg did have the single greatest AB for a Blue Jay this season.

Bottom of the 9th against Guardado and the Mariners and I believe he took the AB to 14 pitches before he drove a line drive over the left field wall.

Berg is the man!

I don't understand this. Is Lehr coming in because he's the only guy who didn't get into last night's game?

Way to go Alex!!

Here's what I'd do right now.. got some dude no ones ever heard of with a ERA in the 6's... Put Berg in to run at 1st and pull off a little hit and run action.

It's official...

NAME THE KID ALEX!!!

A Cat sighting!

CAT !!

Bet they walk him.

CAT SIGHTING!

DAWG SIGHTING... I guess :

For a second I thought Cash was coming up next..

For a second I thought Cash was coming up next..

C'mon aught Dog!

Walk the cat, get bit by the Dog?

So they'll walk Cat to get to Hudson, whom we daren't pinch hit for...

So they'll walk Cat to get to Hudson, whom we daren't pinch hit for...

What would truly stink is if Hudson gets an out and the big inning lays on the shoulders of Cash.

COME ON O-DOG!!!

And then they pinch run for Cat. What a ballgame for him!

Okay...forget the cat and dog, here comes the mouse!

Zaun taking no chances...

I do love the way Zaun plays the physical game...

Wait, if Cash is Pinch hit for, and Zaun moves to catch, does the pitcher have to bat?

Nooooo.... Why us?!

Wait, if Cash is Pinch hit for, and Zaun moves to catch, does the pitcher have to bat?

Yup.

Or will Berg catch..... Or Phelps?!

The pitcher bats 9th, of course!!

It just worked out that way. Berg and Phelps still around to pinch hit when (if) the spot comes around.

Aaaargh!

Blue Jays leave the base juiced, doo dah, doo dah.

Sigh, at least the top of the order will be up next inning.

(There will be a next inning.)

Never ever seen a game before where the pitcher will be due up to bat in a AL game.

Of course we still have two guys to pinch hit though.

This team's hitting in "clutch" situations is going to drive me to the brink of insanity.

That was just the best chance EITHER TEAM has had ALL GAME.

Bases Loaded, 1 out...

And as usual no one scores.

I cant remember a game where the Jays moved their DH into the field. Anyone else?

Its one of those weird things. RH batters hitting .386 against Adams, LHG batters hitting .205

The Jays have the infield back which makes it too easy for Hatteberg to drop one down in that spot.

This does not look good, 1st and 2nd with nobody out. Hinske should surely have been playing further in?

Huge double play there for Adams.

And in comes Ligtenberg...

Double Play, but the runner moves to third.

Ligtenberg comes out to face Crosby. If there was ever a time for him to strand a runner...

This has an excellent chance of not working, but Tosca's right. Adams has been far tougher on LH batters; Ligtenberg is much tougher on RH hitters.

Its the right move.

Doesn't mean it's gonna work, of course...

Anyone else feel that Kerry is coming around?

You know that Kerry's going to win in California, of course? Not Bush.

Wooo ... dodged a bullet there

Hopefully the Jays starter tommorow goes deep vs. the Yanks because the bullpen will have little gas left in the tank.

nah super berg can pitch 5

That's Hentgen tomorrow? Gulp.

Anyway, a Hum-Dinger of a ball game. Remember Bush and Harden?

Kerry comes through...

In a season full of painful losses, a win here would go a long way towards easing some of the hurt...

On to 13...

Anyone want to speculate on why the Jays can't score runners from 3rd with less than two outs? I just can't figure that one out.

Another prompt 2 pitch at-bat from Wells that results in another out.

It's on to the bottom of the 13th with Miller, Scutaro and Kotsay due up.

Darn, the leadoff hitter gets on.

Scutaro definitely will be bunting here, so bring the infield in.

Crap, leadoff guy gets on and now we're gonna have to see the ever-dangerous Mark McLemore.

Hey Ryan, don't forget about Kotsay. He's a pretty dangerous hitter and he's pretty good at putting the ball into play.

Anyone want to speculate on why the Jays can't score runners from 3rd with less than two outs? I just can't figure that one out.

I agree, they/we seem to have no problems hitting long fly balls at other times...

Are there stats for team-GIDP?

Of course, the intentional walk.

And so it is the Jays killer McLemore who is due up.

A sac bunt as the key play between two GM's like Beane and Riccairdi?

It's been a great ballgame defensively and the pitching has been awesome. But three hits all game and very little patience at the plate makes this another pretty pathetic offensive effort by the Jays.

Ligtenberg to face two lefties ... I can't watch ...

Don't worry Ryan, he got McLemore and he'll get Chavez.

Trust me

An emphatic third strike call from the third base ump.

Travis Hafner hit three homers for the Tribe, six RBI. There sure is a lot of offense elsewhere around the league.

Kerry gets my vote...

Don't worry Ryan, he got McLemore and he'll get Chavez.

Right you are!

I should have more faith in this bullpen.

Who'd have thought we'd have a bullpen battle with these two clubs?

When was the last time the Jays played a game into the 14th inning?

I'm picking Rios to get the game-winning hit.

Internet service 20 bucks
Baseball 8 bucks
Beer 6 bucks at some parks
hot dog 3 bucks
clutch fly out by a 210 hitting player 18.5 million

3 hits in 14 innings...

Absolutly horrendous

If both teams scored a crapload of runs, somebody would be whining that steroids are killing baseball.

Who's that warming up in the bullpen?! Zach Jackson?!... If this keeps up, maybe.

Rios made the last out, so Tosca makes a double switch. Speier pitching and hitting 6th, Berg in LF and hitting 9th.

Is Berg in because of a double switch?

And it immediately comes back to haunt the Jays.

"Berg tentative on a fly to left"

Answered already thanks! We don't have many options left on the bench. Nor reliable options in the bullpen. Now or never?

Bobby Crosby's 0-4 today, but I can sure see why Oakland didn't lose any sleep about letting Tejada walk.

...And its all but over........ *Sigh*

Absolutly horrible spot to walk somebody right there although Speier may have gotten the squeeze.

Now the A's have the Bases loaded with 1 out and their 8 and 9 hitter's coming up.

Let's see how they do...

The season of heartbreaking losses continues.

I hate Justin Speier

Grrrr

Another swift kick to the nuts.

Why did Speier keep throwing the ball to the outside part of the plate when it was obvious he wasn't getting the call? ARGH.

Oh well, I enjoyed the game anyway!

Oh dear.

You can't help but think that the Jays deserved to lose after leaving the bases loaded in the 11th or 12th or whenever it was. But it's very tough on Bush who has pitched very well for us and has yet to get a "win".

Me too, Brian. A great pitched game between two teams. It's a shame the bad guys won, but as a fan of pitching, I absolutely loved it.

Yeah, it was definitely an enjoyable game.

Unfortunately, you just knew that with the A's getting the leadoff man aboard every inning that they were due to score eventually.

Just look at the top of the 12th for the reason why the Jays lost.

Bases Loaded 1 out and the Jays AGAIN fail to get atleast 1 runner in. Absolutly horrible.

That's the reason why the Jays lost and continue to lose tight games. Not because the pitchers gave up 1 RUN in 14 INNINGS.

Ever since Wells and Delgado came back the Jays have managed to score 12 runs in 50 innings.

That my folks is brutal.

Bush's start is wasted and the bullpen is empty tommorow vs. the Yanks

So should Berg have caught that ball in left(in other words would Johnson have caught it?)

WITH Pat Hentgen on the mound might I add. It sure figures to get ugly. What makes things worse is that I have tickets... in the bleachers... to tomorrow's game so that figures to be a fun time :(

What makes things worse is the fact that Damian Miller had as many hits (3) and more RBI's (1, lol) than the entire Jays offense.

Sigh, oh well, another day at the office for the Jays...

A star pitcher (Doc) goes on the DL and behold another star is born (Bush)

Anybody have an idea of who the projected 5 picks are going to be for next years draft?

Well, a great game in any case. A brilliant start by Bush; he was masterful. A lack of hitting by the heart of our lineup overshadowed a solid effort from our bullpen. Too bad in the end we just couldn't pull it out. But it was a great game to watch. One of the best I've see all year. Hats off to both Harden and Bush.

A fun but disapointing game. Some random thoughts.
- I love that Cash calls for the high strike. More importantly it works. Not high at the waist, but high out of the strike zone. For a team that tries to keep it on the ground one or two of these a game can be effective.
- For a guy who is reported to be on an even keel - no cussing etc. - Vernon Wells seems to be more and more iritable.
- Watched the third inning with my nephew who is three years old. He already knows the basics; "who's your favorite team Ben? Blue Chays". Still it was fun to learn him some of the finer points, like which ones are the Chays. And he likes when the pitcher throws it by someone; "whoa!".
- Man this offence is woeful. I looked up and down the stats this morning in the Sun, and there are some incouraging signs. But put into effect, the numbers just don't add up.
- Regarding Bush, I'm sold. He can be on my ticket any day.

With Hentgen tomorrow I'm expecting two things. Either Hentgen will be amazing and stop the Bronx juggernaut with ease, or he'll get lit up and leave in the 2nd inning. If it's the latter, then we can look forward to 5 innings from File, and then the disasterous but hilarious pitching debut of one David Berg. Terrific game.

Well, in a kind world, Bush may one day remind many of you of a young man who, after starting his career 1-0 as a "rookie," ended up winning 67 games over his next three seasons.

I am speaking of course about the immortal Larry Cheney, of the post-Tinker-Evers-Chance Cubbie magic.

And with the 2005 #6 draft pick the Toronto Blue Jays select.....

Even though the Jays lost, you must admit that today's game was one of the highlights of 2004.

Anyone?

Great game, and I am sure everyone was impressed with Bush, whether this was a pitchers park or defense was great or not.

JP said he was a good potential 4-5 starter, but I thought he was so highly regarded as a starter because of his smarts. He gets ahead and then although he doesnt really have an out pitch, he knows how to maximize his pitch to strike out the guy. That is why I think he isnt in the same range as a Towers. If his peak is a 4 or 5th starter, I would rather move him back to be a harder throwing closer.

RE: Bush

Since being converted into a starter, he's put up the following numbers:

A: 14GS, 7-3, 2.81ERA, 77IP, 6HR, 9BB, 75K
AA: 14GS, 7-3, 2.78ERA, 81IP, 4HR, 19BB, 73K
AAA: 16GS, 6-6, 4.06ERA, 99.2IP, 7HR, 20BB, 88K
MLB: 3GS, 0-1, 2.29ERA, 19.2IP, 0HR, 5BB, 12K

I think he'll make a fine starter for the Jays for years to come.

Wonderful to see Bush spinning magic on the mound. Along with Rios' performance of late, it provides a bit of hope for the future.

Is anyone familiar with 'tired shoulder' syndrome? If there is no structural damage or tears in Halladay's shoulder, can we expect him to recover fully? Or is this the pitching equivalent of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome--the source of continual physical woes, even if there is a lack of scientific evidence to back it up?

We went to a bar and saw the end of the game. Wow. Just wow.

What a game.

Bobby Crosby's 0-4 today, but I can sure see why Oakland didn't lose any sleep about letting Tejada walk

Man, that guy has some kind of arm. He could probably have made it as a pitcher if he wanted to...

http://www.twinsgeek.com/ is reporting through a "source" JP is trying to trade for Morneau

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1842904
Just a Gammons article and he had a few things to say about Delgado and Batista:

Carlos Delgado's refusal to waive his no-trade, even to join a pennant race with his friend Shawn Green, was taken as a serious blow to the Jays, who thought they could get a couple of future parts for the first baseman. There are few better persons in the game than Delgado, but the perception around the game is that he doesn't care about going into the postseason with a team like the Dodgers. When Rafael Palmeiro and Juan Gonzalez did so last year, they were referred to as being selfish. No one can accuse Delgado of being selfish. However, he can be accused of taking bad advice, for performing in a pennant race and in the postseason could get him back closer to eight figures in his 2005 contract. The Jays have indicated that they will entertain offers for Miguel Batista, but they have to get two good prospects to even think about trading him.

COMN (although I just posted the important part...)

*read*

Too bad about the loss, I missed the end as I had to leave for my soccer game(another dissapointing loss, although I did run over a guy pretty good). Nice to see Bush pitch well, even when under pressure, ie knowing the hitters aren't gonna do much.

A team would have to be crazy to give up 2 good prospects for a 33yr old pitcher with an ERA of 4.02 and 58 Walks to only 77 K's. But at the same time unless the 2 prospects were major league ready by next season such a trade would make you think the Jays were already quiting for next season too.

33 is not old for a pitcher and a 4.02 era for under $5 million is a pretty good deal. From the Jays perspective they'd definately take that for another two years and if someone isn't going to make it worth their while then why would they trade Batista in the first year of his contract?

I disagree about saying 33 isn't old. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I believe once you hit your early 30's your performance usually starts to fade.

Batista has been solid this season but I don't see any team giving up 2 good prospects for him. Of course "good prospect" is very subjective.

When it comes to pitching, after 24 or 25, age becomes almost completely irrelevant.

What counts is stuff and mileage on the arm. Batista hasn't racked up a lot of innings, hits mid-90s on the gun at times and has a very impressive repertoire of pitches.

The key for him will be whether he can hit his spots with consistency, and that's something that generally improves (or at least doesn't decline) with age.

A great, great game. If that's deadball era baseball (few hits, lotsa bunts, defense defense defense) then I want Gitz to get back to building us that time machine.

WOW. I'm still buzzing from the game, hours later.

I'm not going to re-engage the boobirds in here. I'm just a cranky old man.

Is anyone familiar with 'tired shoulder' syndrome? If there is no structural damage or tears in Halladay's shoulder, can we expect him to recover fully? Or is this the pitching equivalent of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome--the source of continual physical woes, even if there is a lack of scientific evidence to back it up?

I'm not an expert, but I'll take a shot.

Presumably, there is swelling - and possibly routine damage at the microscopic level - even though there's no structural damage. Microtears happen all the time - they're a big part of why you and I hurt after a long day's exertion. They would be nothing to be concerned about.

Anyone without structural damage but who is experiencing pain or weakness will usually be prescribed a period of rest, and very often that's all that's needed to put things right. At the very small level, the body usually heals itself much better than a surgeon ever could.

We can expect Halladay to recover fully - it's not a sure thing, but it's easily the most likely outcome, and considerably more likely (in my experience - but this is anecdotal) than all other outcomes combined.

I enjoyed the game too although I found it a bit tense. And I went straight to bed after it (was past midnight here) and didn't sleep very well because I was so wound up!

A bleary-eyed good morning from the UK.

If that's deadball era baseball

Yeah, Craig, it was a marvelous baseball game; shades of Gibson vs. Marichal. Fantastic pitching, superb defence, constant drama -- unforgettable, win or lose. There's not enough of those in a season, and too many of the 16-6 variety.

I'm not going to re-engage the boobirds in here.

Some people never look beyond the scoreboard or the standings. Others seem to take pleasure only in whining or complaining at every opportunity. What a shame they can't fully appreciate a masterpiece.

For those wishing to prolong the good feelings, there is a wonderful picture of Bush delivering a kinghell slider in today's National Post.

What a shame they can't fully appreciate a masterpiece.

Hear, hear. (Or is that "here, here"?) Anyway, if (for instance) I'm watching a 0-0 game between the Yankees and Indians and Mussina has a three-hit shutout and Cliff Lee is tossing a perfecto ... I'm rooting for Lee unless and Yankee loss knocks them out of the playoffs or something.

From the Jays perspective they'd definately take that for another two years and if someone isn't going to make it worth their while then why would they trade Batista in the first year of his contract?

The answer is that they wouldn't. There is no way they're trying to trade him -- Gammons is misinformed.

See the trade pool. ;)

Wow, I don't know where the concerns about the negativity on the site arose from but it does seem that anytime anybody says anything negative about a game or the Jays it gets the above negative response about not appreciating the game, or Jays management, etc. I've been posting here since the early days and there seems a definite shift in the tone of things around here. The beauty of the site has always been (and in large measure continues to be) the quality of the writing, the quality of thought of the posters and the civil (non-moronic tone) of the debates. It also seemed ok to challenge certain decisions or plays of mangement. If you look at the game thread, absent a couple of negative comments, there wasn't a lot of negativity. There was some debate about managerial moves, etc. My negative comments were focused on what I thought was a poor job (particularly early in the game) of showing patience and working counts on a pitcher that has difficulties in that regard. If that's not appreciating the game or understanding what a masterpiece it was then I guess I've missed the point critical analysis that is some much a part of this site. For what it's worth I thought it was the best game of the year. That doesn't mean that the game and some of the decisions can't be criticized.

Couldn't agree more, Nigel.

I've read every post in this thread, and I hardly sensed any negativity. JP Ricciardi said on the radio today that he questioned one of Tosca's decisions, so if questioning some managerial moves in a baseball game qualifies as being a whiner who doesn't appreciate the game, then I suppose JP should find a new sport.

I really do not understand why some of the posters on this site feel the need to get on their high horse and chastise anyone who says anything about the Jays that isn't rosy, and label them as "whiners" or "bandwagoners" just because they have a differing opinion.

It was a great game, I think we can all agree on that. But even if someone didn't enjoy the game, I don't think they should just be dismissed as being "boo-birds" or people who can't appreciate a good game. In fact, I find that fairly arrogant. Just my opinion.

I've read every post in this thread, and I hardly sensed any negativity.

Come on...

another pretty pathetic offensive effort by the Jays.

Internet service 20 bucks
Baseball 8 bucks
Beer 6 bucks at some parks
hot dog 3 bucks
clutch fly out by a 210 hitting player 18.5 million

3 hits in 14 innings...
Absolutly horrendous

Absolutly horrible.

That my folks is brutal.

I would not have called that came horrible or brutal or pathetic. I saw a brilliant pitcher's duel and, surprise, not a lot of people getting on base during it.

I missed the one where Nigel says it's apparent we're watching two teams with pathetic offense.

Named For Hank - you're right - I did say that the Jays and A's are pretty poor offensive teams. If pointing out that the 9th and 12th best offenses in the AL are pretty poor makes me negative then guilty as charged.

Nigel, you didn't use "pretty poor", you used "pathetic". There's a world of difference. I think this is where the objections arise, when such superlatives are used.

If you'd like to reread post #185 in which I made the comment - we're both wrong - I used the words "pretty bad". My mistake on saying I used "pretty poor" :) I stand by the comment 100%, this year the offenses in Toronto and Oakland have been pretty bad.

My apologies, you called the Jays offense pathetic a couple of posts before that one. I got the two tangled up.

NFH: First of all, that's 5 comments.

Five negative comments in 300+ posts pretty much proved my point. Not a lot of negativity in this thread, so I don't know where the complaining (about the complaining) comes from.

Second of all, what is wrong with those comments? They're all true, aren't they?

Is 3 hits in 14 innings horrendous? I think so. Does that mean I'm "whining?" I don't really think so. It's an observation. And an accurate one, I might add.

I guess I can sort of see your point, that it's a pitcher's duel so we shouldn't expect much offense from the Jays, but what's wrong with the Delgado comment?

I don't really see how saying "Delgado makes 18 million and is hitting .210" qualifies as "whining," or even being negative. It's the truth, and it's troubling. I would say that Blue Jays fans have every right to be upset with his production this year.

Quite frankly, I just don't see what your problem is. Is this the site for compliments only? Should every post just be "Go Jays go" and that's it? I don't get it. If someone is upset that their team can't score runs, then what's wrong with that?

Upset, fine. But don't tell me that the game I just had a lot of fun listening to was pathetic or brutal. Using charged words and just trying to rub salt into the wounds helps no one.

This thread, isolated and on its own, is nowhere near as bad as many of the ones we've seen lately. My favourite is the one where the poster tells Craig he's not a true fan because he's not freaking out that the Jays are losing games while rebuilding.

When we're nailed with this over and over and over again we get touchy about it. It's frustrating. I don't like the losses either! I think they suck too! But there are so many positive things to be taken from what's happening that to focus on the negatives (or to crap in my Rob Faulds thread, that was really classless) is maddening.

So no, this was not the most negative thread, at least partially because people made efforts to herd it away from that.

There is no problem with someone expressing their opinion of a game or a play or a player, but to harp on the things that we all know without adding anything... it feels like people are delighting in the Jays' ill fortune and saying "see, I told you they stunk".

Well that's understandable, I guess.

Maybe we should have a seperate thread where we can all just vent and not "rub salt in the wounds." ;)