My mirror in the bathroom fogged up this morning, and i cut myself shaving. But i didnt mind, as the jays lay an english beat-down on the TB Rays. Nice to see phelps and hinske really start to turn things around.

The Expos are countering with the lefty Livan Hernandez.

Well if he throws left handed the Jays should be heavy favorites tonight.

Well if he throws left handed the Jays should be heavy favorites tonight.

Ooops... hahahhaha.. I'll change that in a second. Whoops.

Well done sweat! You win 120 million points, a cuttlefish picture to be given later, and a picture of a cow giving advice:

The Jays official site have Matt Bush starting tonight. The tide has turned, we have a new favorite in town!

Props to Da Box for having its Tom Cheek Get Well thread mentioned in The Star in Chris Zelkovich's "Dreaded Raptors Simulcast Finally Dead" piece.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1088719827908&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064

Although I don't think Batter's Box was specifically *created* for this cause, it was nice to see the reference.

Cool! Didn't see that this morning. Click here to see it.

Recompense for all my crimes of self defence.

Great song. Brings back a ton of memories

I hope Griffin is wrong. Thankfully he usually is.

I hope the Jays don't lose J.P. because Rogers decides to handcuff him even more.

There was nothing positive in the Star today about Toronto sports. What a depressing sports section.

Well if he throws left handed the Jays should be heavy favorites tonight.

I thought that Moffatt was trying to say hefty Livan Hernandez.

There was nothing positive in the Star today about Toronto sports. What a depressing sports section.

I haven't seen the dead tree edition of the Star yet. Isn't there anything positive about the recent signings of Belfour, Roberts, and Nieuwendyk? For all my Leafs bashing (it's fun and profitable!), I really think they did a good job in resigning three excellent players.

Caveat: Nieuwendyk and Roberts are probably two of my ten favourite players all time.

Heheheh.. hefty.

I haven't seen the dead tree edition of the Star yet. Isn't there anything positive about the recent signings of Belfour, Roberts, and Nieuwendyk?

Actually Cox ripped the signings by the Leafs because he basically said they haven't won with them yet so why would that change now that they're another year older.

And there is an article about Vince Carter wanting out of T.O. plus the Griffin peice on J.P. possibly wanting out if the payroll is reduced. What a day!

Actually Cox ripped the signings by the Leafs because he basically said they haven't won with them yet so why would that change now that they're another year older.

Dumb. The Leafs had their best regular season ever and Belfour was awesome in the playoffs. Like it's *his* fault.

Dumb. The Leafs had their best regular season ever and Belfour was awesome in the playoffs. Like it's *his* fault.

I agree. The Leafs were banged up in the playoffs. Eagle kept them in the series. They could have beaten Philly if they were healthy. But the Jays could potentially have been right with Boston if they were healthy too. As we all know, injuries are killers to seasons.

Actually Cox ripped the signings

No kidding. I just read that online -- what a pathetic article. I even agree with Cox (they shouldn't sign 38+ year olds with little chance of hockey next year) but this was just awful. Is "Cox on the Leafs" worse than "Griffin/Baker on the Jays"?

Not sure if this has already been discussed on here or not (I don't follow the minor league stuff as closely as the other Bauxites): Jays signed 13th rounder Kyle Yates yesterday. See: "Kerrville’s Yates inks deal with Blue Jays".

Another Griffin Gem (tm): ...they are opening the door for their GM to walk. And his personal P.R. media machine in the American northeast has made sure that he will have no trouble getting another job.

Awww, somebody's cranky that Ricciardi gave an interview to a Boston media outlet in the offseason and never called The Star.

It wouldn't hurt things in T.O. sports if the papers hired some writers that actually wrote something positive about the teams. Most people get their sports information from the media so the fans will believe what they read. With Griffin, Cox and Baker writing their daily trash, it's no wonder fans in Toronto get down on the teams. Their constant negativity does get annoying.

My pop, the epitome of Joe Baseball Fan, dropped his Star subscription because he said he was sick of the baseball articles being about the writers and having nothing to do with reality or the Jays. He's a non-stat guy who just likes baseball a lot (and who gave me my name).

This was in the middle of last season, when he pulled the plug. I was surprised, since he's subscribed to the Star since before I was born, about 30 years now, and his only complaint was about the baseball writing.

Is "Cox on the Leafs" worse than "Griffin/Baker on the Jays"?

I'm a typical long-suffering Leaf fan. I am also an atypical supporter of what Cox has to write.

MLSE has been getting away with murder for years. If the Jays were pulling in a $20M+ profit each year but not showing a commitment to at least get CLOSE to break-even (profit-wise) once in a while to make a real run for it, how would we all feel?

The Red Wings run at break-even or a slight loss for a few years because they know they have something special. Colorodo, Dallas and a number of other teams have shown that, relative to their respective budgets, they're willing to sacrifice financially to make a Cup run.

I don't care that they are top-five in the league in salaries paid. That is completely misleading given the margin they are sitting on.

To add to this corporate apathy, throw in the fact that Leaf management seems intent on running the ship much like Ash ran the Jays (adding flawed veteran pieces rather than building a strong, youthful foundation) and you have what should be a fan revolt.

Instead, we all love them.

Who can blame Cox for being incredulous? His writing most accurately captures my frustration.

The Leafs could be like the Epstein era Red Sox... rich, intelligently run, hungry and with an eye towards the present and the future.

Instead, they are, well... the Toronto Maple Leafs.

the Griffin peice on J.P. possibly wanting out if the payroll is reduced

This is clearly made up (and maybe wishful thinking on Griffin's part). JP despises the Star. Why would he share his private and personal frustrations with them?

Cox is being pretty hard on the leafs, but I think he's right in the sense that "just the same" won't do it, so unless they are willing to add $$$ to bring in a decent guy or two, why sign the same cast, who will collectively be 25 yrs older this year but possibly 50 yrs older but the time they play again...

strategically it seems like "doing the same things the same way and expecting different results" which we all know is the text book definition of "Insantity"...

however I am willing to hold my tongue, and see what they do about adding to the mix..

This thread does bring to mind something I was thinking about just this morning...

It would be nice to see 3 (count them THREE) additional permanent threads add to the index.
1) Non Jays, Baseball talk
2) Non Jays, Toronto Sports Talk
and
3) List talk, improvements, problems etc....

my 2 cents (GST not included)'s worth

Griffin: "Now the Jays and their five-year plan, built around the cult-like Moneyball concept of finding low-priced diamonds in the rough, is being eclipsed by other teams, like this week's opponent, the Devil Rays. Built on a $29 million budget Tampa Bay has a team MVP, batting leadoff, with a .320 average and 35 stolen bases. Meanwhile, the Jays remain longball hunting."

Runs scored per game:
Jays: 4.52
Rays: 4.53

That is one lame eclipse.

Daryn, there's non-Jays baseball talk littered throughout this site. Since many of the authors are Jays fans and/or live in Toronto, it will naturally have a Blue Jay flavour to it but this isn't a Jays site. It's a baseball site first and foremost.

As far as #2 is concerned, I'd like to remind you that Toronto is not the centre of the universe. ;)

But fans in Toronto don't get down on the Leafs like they do with the Jays. Toronto is in love with the Leafs to the exclusion of all other teams. The negative media doesn't turn people away from the ACC. It may turn others away from the Dome, we don't know.

I just love every time someone says the Jays suck...I can point to 1993 like this: Jays win it all, Leafs lose to Kings (Gretzky, of course) and whine about it for 11 years.

Lucas, that is brilliant. I just spilled coffee on myself.

I'd like to remind you that Toronto is not the centre of the universe.

According to the roster page, you live in Toronto, which makes that sentence all the more ridiculous. :)

Here's a suggestion to all those people fed up with the negative press into Toronto regarding the Jays... Perhaps the Batter's Box should consider a print edition (magazine or newspaper) maybe even just the six months of the year that baseball runs.
They obviously have the ability to provide enough content. As a journalist/columnist who works at a smaller Sun Media owned newspaper I would be more than willing to help out.
I think it could do rather well and, especially if it remains objective, I wouldn't be surprised to see JP and the Jays get behind it.

That's not a bad idea, Marc. I would be glad to offer my desktop publishing skills and do the page layout :) .

I'd donate my photographic skills to it, should someone get it off the ground. And I'd make ya a nice fancy logo, too.

I do layout for our paper every week and have been trained in desktop publishing so between Mike in CT and myself we could almost have it covered.

It really is a good idea. I've been hoping for quite a while that someone would start a publication for the Jays. Being in the New York area, I see the Yankees and Mets publications and they're good. It could only help get people turned onto the Jays again. Count me in.

I like this idea, too. What say you our holy triumvirate?

The hard part is attracting writers. Where would we find those? Hmmm...

Meanwhile, to make up for the fact that I'm stuck at work on what is really a semi-holiday day with nothing to do, I'm playing a game of MLB Sportsclix against myself.

The game tickled me because it's a baseball game centred around little figurines of players that you buy in packs, like baseball cards, without knowing who you'll get.

Here are the two lineups:

AWAY TEAM:

Jose Cruz RF
Carl Crawford LF
Vernon Wells DH (yeah, I know, but in the game Juan Pierre is a way better CF)
Carlos Delgado 1B
Juan Pierre CF
Orlando Hudson 2B
Chris Stynes 3B
Jose Valentin SS
Paul Lo Duca C

Ben Sheets SP
Eddie Guardado RP

HOME TEAM:

Derek Lee 1B
Michael Young 2B
Carlos Beltran CF
Vladimir Guerrero RF
Bernie Williams DH
Eric Chavez 3B
Angel Berroa SS
Adam Dunn 3B
Brad Ausmus C

Kerry Wood SP
Eric Gagne RP

If anyone wants to quibble with my lineups, feel free. I just sort of threw them together.

In the top of the first, Wood sat down the visiting team in order. Sheets looked set to do the same, but then walked Beltran and Guerrero back to back with two outs to get himself into a bit of a jam.

Sheets tried to fire a fastball past Williams and almost paid the price, as Williams scorched a ball into the gap in centre field. Luckily, Cruz was fast enough to get to it and make the catch, saving Ben's bacon. On to the top of the second.

The hard part is attracting writers. Where would we find those? Hmmm...

I'd say the hard part is cutting deals with distribution channels and selling enough copies to pay for even the costs of the production materials (paper, etc.)

It's a really fun idea, and you could probably make it work, but you'd need a really solid business plan.

For various reasons, I keep missing Wednesdays with J.P. - has anyone asked him for his opinion of the local print media? While negativity and incompetence may be universal in baseball markets, the levels at which they exist in the major outlets here never ceases to amaze me.

I don't think the Toronto media is all negative. Just a couple of star guys and Bob Elliott of the Sun. I think the Globe does a pretty good job, I like the Post's coverage thought it's not all that frequent. I think Rutsey of the Sun does a great job, along with Shi Davidi of CP. Spencer Fordin is also excellent if you extend "major outlets" to include MLB.com. I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two guys.

Of course, as a card-carrying Conservative, I'm obligated to dislike the Star and make suggestions like "They should change their corporate logo to:"



;)

It's a shame that the Star has the most Blue Jays coverage of any paper and also the most negative.

http://www.boston.com/sports/message_board/redsox/070104/msg1.shtml
Anyone who thinks the Jays fans are down their team hasn't seen anything compared to the Boston fans! COMN and check out these postings.

I'd say the hard part is cutting deals with distribution channels and selling enough copies to pay for even the costs of the production materials (paper, etc.)

It's a really fun idea, and you could probably make it work, but you'd need a really solid business plan.

Starting any publication is always a difficult challenge but I'd be up for it. Good teamwork could get it done so we should see what we can do.

I want to add the following addendum: I think Griffin is a hell of a writer. Just wish he'd stop being so negative all the time, and resist the urge to take so many cheap shots.

Delgado hits a fly ball to centre, but Beltran wasn't in a great position to play it and missed the catch, giving Carlos a single. Pierre follows with an easy fly to Vlad in right. Hudson flies out to right, again directly to Vlad, and Stynes strikes out to end the threat.

Bottom of the second, Sheets tries to paint the corner and issues another walk, putting Chavez on first. Berroa hits a grounder, and Valentin turns a highlight reel double play. Sheets tries to paint the corner but AGAIN issues a walk, this time to Dunn. Ausmus scorches a grounder to second, but Hudson muffs the play. Lee grounds to third to end the inning.

And then it gets oddly busy at work, so it looks like the game will be called due to rain. ;)

The publication really seems like a great idea guys. Good luck with, I hope it works out. Id offer to help out but unless you want pictures of deans or a dozen scrubs I cant really offer much.

Anyone else think it a little fishy that the day after the Jays crush the annoying D-Rays on a Canada Day game that probably drew a nice TV audience, the star suddenly has a new doom-and-gloom story about JP wanting to walk if Delgado's payroll is put into company pockets. Damn those writers love to kick a team when they're down.

Anyone else think it a little fishy that the day after the Jays crush the annoying D-Rays on a Canada Day game that probably drew a nice TV audience, the star suddenly has a new doom-and-gloom story about JP wanting to walk if Delgado's payroll is put into company pockets. Damn those writers love to kick a team when they're down.

I was thinking the same thing, Jobu. Yesterday couldn't have been any better and they have to go and print that story? What a way to bring the Jays fans down. We had a nice win and now the anticipation of David Bush's arrival, the last thing we need to read is that garbage.

You're absolutely right in that there is some very good coverage; what I was getting at is that I find the performance of the offenders you mentioned to be staggering sometimes. I agree that Griffin can write; if only he would concentrate less on fiction.

Does anyone know all the details surrounding the Bush call-up? I can't find them anywhere. Someone said Nakamura's been sent down; how did they clear a spot on the 40?

Just read the following from Manny's feature story in S.I. I never knew he was a jasy fan:

"He (Manny Ramirez) argued with his friends who were Yankees fans, because Ramirez was devoted to the Toronto Blue Jays of the 1980s, a team with several Latin stars, including shortstop Tony Fernandez and fractious outfielder George Bell."

I think your best hope is to have the Jays involved in helping find advertisers and to help underwrite a newsletter. It could be given out free at games, sent to season ticket subscribers and maybe even included in Rogers cable or cellphone mailings. It would be a great way for the Jays to increase awareness in the team beyond the superficial level that is allocated by the local media.

HOME TEAM:

Adam Dunn 3B

If anyone wants to quibble with my lineups, feel free. I just sort of threw them together.

Well, Adam Dunn at third is a little bit odd. ;)

MLB Sportsclix is fun to play, but they made defense a bit too important without costing it properly. Somebody like Coco Crisp is good to play because he's relatively cheap and he can catch the ball pretty easily. I'm also not a big fan of the lack of steals - it rarely makes sense to not hold the runner, so it makes challenging the catcher a bit more difficult.

And they need to add more relievers, including ones that can go longer than one inning - the odd time that your starter does get bombed, it is pretty impossible to catch up.

Jason

I think your best hope is to have the Jays involved in helping find advertisers and to help underwrite a newsletter. It could be given out free at games, sent to season ticket subscribers and maybe even included in Rogers cable or cellphone mailings. It would be a great way for the Jays to increase awareness in the team beyond the superficial level that is allocated by the local media.

We should pool our talents, connections, and resources and see if we can get this off the ground.

It could be given out free at games, sent to season ticket subscribers and maybe even included in Rogers cable or cellphone mailings.

If Rogers wanted to do that, they'd probably create the content in-house so they'd have a lot more control over it. I could see them borrowing a couple of our writers, tho.

Best bet is probably to figuring out how you'll distribute it (think small to begin with) and figure out if you can collect enough revenue to make a go of it. Getting this business side of it is probably the most difficult bit, but I'd happy to contribute in any way I can.

Heh, yeah, Dunn's in left. Whups.

I suppose it depends on your fielders, the stealing. Juan Pierre was pretty key to a 4-1 beating my wife laid on me the other night. And I agree, the game needs middle relievers.

What I like is that the figures are the same as the HeroClix figures, so when Sheets kept walking guys I sat him down between innings and told him that Doctor Octopus was pitching well with our AAA affiliate, so his job was on the line.

I think your best hope is to have the Jays involved in helping find advertisers and to help underwrite a newsletter.

Generally I like the idea of an independant publication that focuses on baseball from a Canadian perspective but MatO's suggestion makes me cringe. The last thing we need is another source for information convoluted by corporate politics. Offering something of this nature to Rogers and/or other advertisers would ultimately bring its credibility in to question. I highly doubt there would be much latitude in the way of critsism were the editorial board to become discontent with the direction of the team.

That said, there are probably hundreds of community sports stores, collectors, dealers, travel agents, etc who would be willing to buy ad space...And who knows, maybe there are gov't grants in the citizenship or heritage dept. for something of this nature.

I doubt the Jays would allow it to sell at the Skydome considering it could put a dent in the sales of their programs...

I actually know a Member of Parliament who sits on the Sports and Heritage committee (assuming he is reassigned when the House sits again). I could always ask him about funding, given that the Canadian gov't Web site is rather confusing when it comes to figuring out grants, etc. I know there are grants available for starting up magazines but I think you have print/distribute at least one issue before being entitled to apply.

I definitely think having it as a private publication and not affilated with the Jays or Rogers (like this website) would be best for its integrity. We would have the freedom to write what we want and not be told what not to include, etc.

I was thinking of more an informative publication rather than an editorial one. I mean, what does the casual fan know about David Bush? Unless it's through Wilner or here, he knows nothing. But, I understand. If you're in bed with them it's hard to be critical of their decisions when they need to be critisized.

Speaking of writers, if you want to hear from someone who REALLY has an ax to grind, check out Tracy Ringolsby

TORONTO general manager J.P. Ricciardi spent the off-season patting himself on the back for his wise pitching acquisitions. Now he's eager to unload overpriced contracts for right-handers Pat Hentgen, Miguel Batista and Terry Adams and left-hander Ted Lilly.

Whatever.

I certainly wouldn't group Lilly and Batista with Speier, Adams, Lightenberg and Hentgen. Those two have been amazing lately and their numbers for the season aren't bad.

I don't think there are a whole lot of GMs out there who wouldn't be happy paying Batista and Lilly their current salaries. From what I've heard, the Mets wouldn't mind having Batista and Lilly has attracted interest from a number of different teams. Ideally, if the Jays could get a top prospect for either one I'd trade one of them (but not both). That said, neither of them is going to command David Wright or Gavin Floyd so the Jays might as well hang on to them.

TORONTO general manager J.P. Ricciardi spent the off-season patting himself on the back for his wise pitching acquisitions. Now he's eager to unload overpriced contracts for right-handers Pat Hentgen, Miguel Batista and Terry Adams and left-hander Ted Lilly.

Wow. Welcome to planet Ringolsby.

I'm not sure in which universe Batista and Lilly are considered overpriced.

The deals are backloaded, but not ridiculously so:

	Batista	Lilly
2004	3.60 MM	1.90 MM
2005	4.75 MM	3.10 MM
2006	4.75 MM	---- MM

Daryn, there's non-Jays baseball talk littered throughout this site. Since many of the authors are Jays fans and/or live in Toronto, it will naturally have a Blue Jay flavour to it but this isn't a Jays site. It's a baseball site first and foremost.

As far as #2 is concerned, I'd like to remind you that Toronto is not the centre of the universe. ;)

I take it you don't agree with the suggestion, that's fine...
but to refute.

1) I haven't seen a "non Blue Jays" thread in the last week, so if someone can tell me where I should talk about Jose Reyes, I'd be pleased to post it there..
and
2) Since this thread evolved into a discussion of the Maple Leafs and not the Chicago BlackHawks, I suggested TORONTO Teams... you want to start a Flame Thread, make your own suggestion.
DT

By "Flame Thread" I meant "Calgary Flames", not "flame wars"

The same Ringolsby article says the Rangers are looking for "depth", and that Showalter and Mench have had a falling out.

Terry Adams for Mench, anyone?

The Rangers, having convinced themselves they are contenders, just might start making some idiotic trades...

My suggestion would be to just say what you want to say about Reyes and things will take a life of their own from there...

My suggestion would be to just say what you want to say about Reyes and things will take a life of their own from there...

you can even use the tried and true hijack declaration.

HIJACK: whither Jose Reyes?

If the thread gets enough mileage, one of the CABAL will create seperate home for it.

I personally don't like Mench. Toronto needs a few more "athletes" like Hudson and Wells. But then I would like to see more speedsters on the Jays too. I'd love to field a team with an outfield of Eric Reed, Joey Gathright and Freddy Guzman. Too bad it doesn't fit in with JP's style. I don't mind his style but a little more speed on the team would help out during the power outages. Look how well the Jays have done by playing "small ball." They completely baffled TB with the double steal of home.

Ok then Hijack warning..

I took Reyes real high in my keeper league draft... I'm not expecting him to run much this year, but has anyone seen him play? What does he have??

Gord Stellick just said that a wire story has Arizona's Brenly fired.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1833440
COMN for Brenly.

if someone can tell me where I should talk about Jose Reyes, I'd be pleased to post it there..

Feel free to treat the Roundup thread as a catch-all.

Guys, if you're serious about getting a mag off the ground I will absolutely donate material to assist in getting the first issue published, if it means being able to pull off a grant.

What's a magazine without photographs, after all?

Another thing to remember about publications is that 80 to 90 per cent of the revenue comes from ads. If it's going to catch on, it has to attract advertisers first and foremost. That said, advertisers are attracted to high circulation opportunities.

I took Reyes real high in my keeper league draft... I'm not expecting him to run much this year, but has anyone seen him play? What does he have??

His best tool is speed, and he's had chronic hamstring problems this year. He should add some power as he ages (he's only 21 and in the big leagues) but I doubt he'll hit for power like Carlos Beltran.

Think Orlando Hudson with more speed (and that's only if he manages to keep his legs healthy). Maybe similar to Rafael Furcal as well?

Guys, if you're serious about getting a mag off the ground I will absolutely donate material to assist in getting the first issue published, if it means being able to pull off a grant.

Let's definitely go for this. It would be fun and good for baseball in Toronto.

I think the best thing about this publication, if it gets off the ground, is finaly the casual fan can hear about the Blue Jays without all the rediculous doom and gloom from the big papers. Maybe the Jays wont be the "bad" team in T.O. after a while.

Maybe the Jays wont be the "bad" team in T.O. after a while.

I don't think the Jays can compete with the Raptors on that front.

daryn-
I watched Reyes in his first couple of games back. He's trying to get back into hitting, and from what I saw is taking a lot of pitches, which is good, he just hasn't started recognizing them yet. His speed is fine- broadcasters said he's rnning at about 90%, but damned if I can tell. They had great footage of a triple he hit last year and one he hit this year- they've got him running in a new style, more upright, less strain on his legs and back. Based on that footage, he looked a couple of steps slower, but Reyes is so fast that it shouldn't matter. Hasn't kept him from being aggressive- he took 2 bases on an error in a play that wound up deciding the game. It was an incredible play- the guy's a joy to watch and at this point looks thrilled just to be playing again.

He's having a hard time getting on base right now, so SBs are down, but power's there- 2 HR and a 3B since coming back. They moved him to leadoff and dropped Kaz-Mat to the #2 slot, so he should be running if he gets on. The problem right now is that the Mets actually have an offense (3 outfielders who can hit homeruns- we haven't been treated to that since 1991), so there may be some incentive to keep him stationary. But OTH Reyes has always been a high percentage basestealer, so once he learns the league I'd imagine he'll be running.

Re: other young SS- anyone else noticed how great Crosby's been for Oakland? After starting slow, he's really come on.

Jacko-
No slight to O-Dawg, but Reyes will be twice the hitter he is. He's had success at every level despite being close to the youngest player in those leagues. The biggest problem he'll have is with plate discipline, but so far this year, it seems like he's trying to be selective.

Do we expect too much of our sports columnists? Seriously, maybe we just take for granted that they, like us regular folk, just get lazy or tired or caught up in their neice's wedding, or whatever. I mean, how does Griffin seriously extoll the virtues of the Rays' operation (one of the worst in baseball since their inception) by singling out one good young player (Crawford) without noticing that the Jays, when healthy, have three nearly MVP-quality players (including Doc)? Does he really think it's fair to suggest that J.P. and his cult-like system should have produced such a player after just two drafts? Even if J.P. first draft pick had been A-Rod rather than Adams, he wouldn't be producing at that level yet.

The only way to explain gaffes like this is just to assume that the author was too hung over or busy to think it through.

The rain died down, and Valentin started the third inning by striking out, but Lo Duca got to first on a fly to centre that no one could get to. Wood struck out Cruz. Crawford singled to centre. Vernon Wells, stone cold today, strikes out to end the inning.

Bottom of the third, and Michael Young almost homered, but Crawford robbed him at the wall. Beltran grounded an easy one to third for the second out, and Vlad grounded to short to end an easy inning for Sheets.

Say fellow internet time killers, where might I find this sportsclix game that sounds so ammusing?

No slight to O-Dawg, but Reyes will be twice the hitter he is. He's had success at every level despite being close to the youngest player in those leagues.

There's no doubt in my mind that Reyes will be a better hitter than Orlando, but I'm not convinced at all that he's going to hit for enough power to be a rotisserie baseball stud.

I can think of lots of young middle infielders who never managed to add much power to their games after arriving to the majors in their early 20's (Guzman, Rivas, and Furcal spring to mind). Arod, Nomar, Tejada, and Bobby Crosby all showed lots of HR power in the minors before coming to the majors.

The only counterexample I can think of is Jeter, who's power developed after being promoted to the majors.

jc

There's no doubt in my mind that Reyes will be a better hitter than Orlando, but I'm not convinced at all that he's going to hit for enough power to be a rotisserie baseball stud.

Totally subjective, but it looks like he's still going to run. I'll bet he steals at least 50/year, which should be enough to make him a rotostud. Mets fans are guessing 15 HR/yr. If you're in an OPS league, he's going to hit a lot of 3B, probably hit for a decent average. Didn't really watch Rivas or Guzman. I can say Reyes really charges the ball, so if he does get stronger (and start being more selective) I could see 20 HR/year by the time he's 25.

http://www.wizkidsgames.com/sportsclix/mlb/mlb_article.asp?cid=38515
Say fellow internet time killers, where might I find this sportsclix game that sounds so ammusing?

COMN. You can buy it in comic book type stores or all over the internet. If you're looking for a good price on a starter set on the net, let me know and I'll give you the name of a seller.

My teams are deadlocked 0-0 going into the 9th. I've given my batters quite the pep-talk ("If you don't get us on the board I'll head down to the comic store RIGHT NOW and buy a booster pack, and so help me, Stynes, if there's a third baseman in there you'll be riding a ton of pine!"), so we'll see what happens.

Not to rain on any parades here, but controversy sells papers. Negativity sells papers. Venting sells papers. Optimism when a team is nine games under .500 does not.

Everytime Griffin makes one of these articles, a link is posted (here and on other Jays message boards) ripping the article to bits. But guess what? You're reading it, and that's all Griffin and the company itself wants.

I think an independent Jays magazine is a great idea, and I would love to contribute to it if help is needed, but until the Blue Jays starts winning consistently, and the fan base starts to recognize the players on the team (like Alomar, Carter, Moliter, etc in the glory days), than fluff magazines probably won't be the hottest selling item in the city.

From an idea standpoint, it's solid. And I'm sure Ricciardi would have no problem helping us in terms of content (I believe he's given more than one interview for this site already). Getting it off the ground and having people buy into it will be the hard part, much like any new venture.

Good luck though. I'd love to see what it looks like. If you need cheap labor, I'm there for you. :)

Wow, this looks cool. So what I must do is go to my local comic store, purchase a team of players and then I can log onto the internet and pit them against each other?

Crawford stuck out to begin the ninth inning, but Wells hit a flyball to Dunn that Dunn fumbled, and then Vernon made Dunn look silly by taking second, as well. Wood issues back to back walks to Delgado and Juan Pierre to load up the bases for Orlando Hudson. Hudson flied out, and Vernon tested Dunn again, tagging up and running for home, but this time Dunn gunned him down, and Wood emerged unscathed.

Wood is buying Dunn some kind of steak dinner tonight, I'm sure.

On to the bottom of the ninth.

Nah, Jobu, it's old-school -- you play with dice. I'm playing both teams right now to get a better handle on the rules and to kill a slow work day.

If you buy a starter, I'll meet up with you to play some games. I'm sure Mrs. Hank can only take so many before she'll get bored of it. ;)

Sweet...

and how much do these starter kits cost? And what exactly do you buy, figurines?

I'm an editor of a small literary journal, and distribution is by far the single biggest challenge facing a new magazine (in my experience). Nothing else comes close. Content seems to take care of itself by comparison. And on advertising: it's really tough to sell advertising for a first issue; potential advertisers seem to want to see a hard copy, a published first issue, before committing to much of anything. One way around this in the genre I'm working in is to trade advertising space with like-minded publications for the first issue, but that might not make sense for what you've got in mind.

I would gladly put my admittedly limited skills in the service of this new venture.

Jobu, yeah, the starter is nine figures, a field, a rulebook and a set of dice. There are two starters, so if you want to have a different bunch of guys from me buy the red one. The starter should be about $20, and then booster packs of three random figures (sealed so you can't see who's inside) are $6 or $7.

The figures have stats printed in the base that relate to the dice roll that change as the game moves on -- when, for instance, Vernon Wells gets a hit, you rotate his base so that his stats go up one position. When he hits into a double play, you rotate him down.

On eBay, crazy people buy hundreds of boosters and open them up to find the "rare" and "valuable" figures, which they sell for more money (Derek Jeter is $20). That leaves them with piles of common players they'll sell cheap or in big bags of like 30 men. I assembled my second team with 25 cent players from eBay like Carl Crawford.

Michael Young opened the bottom of the ninth by lacing a ball past Jose Valentin. Ben Sheets appears to be tiring, but I only have one reliever and will have to play the bottom of the tenth if I hold them off here, so Sheets will have to battle through and rely heavily on his fielders. Beltran pops a ball directly to Juan Pierre for the first out. Stone cold Vladimir Guerrero, looking for his first hit of the night, grounds a hard one right to Valentin who neatly tosses it over to Hudson at second for the out, but Hudson is unable to turn the double play to first, as Vlad squeaks in before the throw gets to the bag.

Two outs, bottom of the ninth for DH Bernie Williams. He's been cold tonight, too, and if there was anyone I could pinch in for him I would, but the only guy on the home team's bench is Eric Gagne. Bernie pops one into an empty area of right field. A racing Jose Cruz nearly makes the play (he had to roll a 7 but rolled a six) but he doesn't pull it off, and both runners are safe. Vlad considered breaking for third on that play, but the odds of success were poor, so he stuck around at second base.

The pressure's on for Eric Chavez. Oh, the pain -- he pops one right to Juan Pierre to end the inning.

We go to the top of the tenth, no score in the ballgame.

Kerry Wood is obviously exhausted, but with the way his offence is playing tonight, he will come out to start the tenth inning and face Chris Stynes, who obediently flies out to left field. Valentin, one of the few Visitors with a hit tonight, also flies out to left. Lo Duca smacks one to the track, but Vlad makes a jumping catch to keep it from going over the wall. On to the bottom of the tenth.

Sheets is just as tired as Wood, and Berroa almost takes him over the wall, but Carl Crawford saves the day. Dunn follows up with more of the same, and while it was a tricker play, Crawford again keeps the ball out of the bleachers. Ausmus laces a hard one at Delgado who handles it easily to end the inning.

Kerry Wood is physically unable to start the 11th, so in come Eric Gagne to face the top of the order. Cruz grounds to first base, but then Crawford smacks one directly at Derek Lee and it bounces off of Lee's head or something and Crawford is aboard. Vernon grounds one to Michael Young, but no one is covering second so Crawford advances. The mighty Carlos Delgado comes up to bat, but grounds one to third base where Chavez is in perfect position to make the third out.

On to the bottom of the 11th. Like Wood, Sheets is totally spent and can't go any further, so Eddie Guardado comes on to face Derek Lee. Lee grounds an easy one to Valentin, Michael Young strikes out, and so does Beltran. If I hadn't scored four runs in the top of the first the other day, I'd think this game was impossible.

To the 12th...let's see if the relievers can handle it.

The top of the twelvth went quietly three-up three-down, but the bottom opened with Vladimir Guerrero drawing another walk. Bernie Williams flied to deep left, but Crawford made his third spectacular catch of the game. Vlad advanced easily to second. Before he goes out on the field, the home team manager has a serious chat with Eric Chavez about his future with this organization. Eric looks put-upon at the plate. Chavez responds to the pressure by grounding the ball directly to Orlando Hudson. He sniffs sadly and returns to the dugout, where his teammates give him a hug. While no one is paying any attention, Vlad moves up to third. Berroa grounds to first base and throws his batting helmet onto the ground in disgust with himself.

Gagne looks overworked, and Valentin singles off of him into the gap. Lo Duca, smelling blood in the water, taunts Gagne mercilessly, and then pops one over Chavez's head into shallow left. Gagne responds by striking out Cruz. Crawford caps his great defensive night by launching one into the bleachers to score three runs.

Then the rain begins to pour down again. Will the home team have a chance to respond?

Thanks for the scoop on Reyes.. 15-50 is definitely keeper material..
I've got Vidro too, quality guy, but not much of a Roto-stud, average and Runs maybe..

I picked up A-Rod by dealing 5 guys includign a 50HR Brandy Anderson when A-Rod was still in AAA.. so I HAD 3 quality IF's going into this year, now I don't...