All we can hope for is another well-pitched game. This lineup isn't going to win many slugfests. Cat is unavailable, Delgado isn't making progress, no Phelps, no Woodward, Berg in LF again. Menechino, the only Jay who has seen Lawrence (1-for-1), is the shortstop, leading off. The Padres are much more familiar with Batista, and Klesko owns him: 10-for-24, with a .517 OBP and .625 SLG.

The inimitable Jerry Coleman will again be visiting the radio booth, and in the sixth and seventh innings, Jerry Howarth's guest will be Kevin Towers. If the GM is as candid on the air as he was in his BP interview with Jonah Keri, you won't want to miss that.

Is there a reason why Clark isn't in left with Phelps starting at first, or does Tosca really believe Dave Berg is a better hitter than Josh Phelps?

I said it all along Berg has dirty pics of Tosca and JP.

It seems pretty clear to me that Tosca has lost confidence in Phelps (in other games, he has chosen to play Berg at first over Phelps) This loss of confidence happened at one point last year, as well.

It is a significant issue for the team.

500 homers for the Griffey kid. Happy Father's Day to Ken Sr. and all the other dads out there.

I just realized something (I know, I'm slow) but today is Father's Day! So not only are they not showing the last game from Petco, but also not putting the Jay game on TV the day when their "target audience" is most likely going to be lounging at home looking for some sports to watch....

What is Rogers thinking??

Yeah, Rios with the double. Even if it was the 2nd basemans screw up that gave it to him.

And the O-Dog brings him home! WOOOO!

I cannot wait for next Wednesday's "Wednesdays with JP." You figure the GM knows what's going on with his first baseman of the future.

Did they ever say what that team "emergency" was that cancelled the last Wednesday's with JP?

Okay we are almost at the midpoint of the season who do you think is gonna win the World Series?

I'm picking a Red Sox/Cubs final with the Cubs taking it.

The Cubs have the bats and they have the best starting 5 in the majors (Prior, Wood, Maddux, Zambrono, Clement. All 5 of those pitchers would be in the top 2 of almost any rotation in the majors.

What roster move did the Jays make to allow them to call up Nakamura? Put Estallela on the DL?

That's correct, Thomas. Bobby's ankle wasn't getting any better.

Man, I really wish I saw that double play that just happened. Can anyone explain what just transpired in english?

Just amusing myself with Retrosheet making sense of Jerry Coleman's career.

He eame up with the 1949 Yankees and Casey made him the starting 2B. He had three years as the regular (Miguel Cairo is given as his best comp) and then it looks like he was drafted. He played just 11 and 8 games in 1952 and 1953 and while he was away, Billy Martin took over the job.

Martin was a better player, but in 1954 Billy goes into the military, losing all of 1954 and most of 1955. In 1954, Coleman got to play in 107 games, basically splitting 2B with Gil McDougald, who had played mostly 3B since coming up in 1951. Coleman spent three more years as a utility player before the Yankees released him at the end of 1957.

Rocky start to the fourth for Batista -- double, wild pitch, walk -- but the Jays dodged a bullet on a wild double play, with lead runner Loretta getting caught in a rundown. Sounds like Howie Clark made a helluva play -- touched first, then threw across the diamond, then made the eventual tag at the plate.

The boo-birds are out in San Diego, as they fail to score a man from third with nobody out. Sound familiar?

Is the gamecast right? I just got in and it says Lawrence has struck out 4, given up 4 hits and still only thrown 60 pitches in 5 innings.

Fawaz, he threw about 13 in the first two innings, nearly all for strikes. Both pitchers are getting a lot of groundball outs today.

Elsewhere, the Tampa Bay steamroller continues to crush the D-Backs. It's early, and it's only 2-0, but they are on their way to an 11th consecutive win. I sure feel sorry for whoever plays them next.

Kevin Towers is up next on the radio broadcast.

Damn those D-Rays!

Mark Hendrickson has pitched 4 scoreless innings, tossing only 47 pitches. His ERA is down to 4.06, the same as Batista's.

I hope Cash gets to catch that entire series. I want to see Cash vs. Crawford.

So while I'm looking at the 50s Yankees teams on Retrosheet, I start to notice Stengel's pitching patterns. The five-man rotation is regarded today as something the Dodgers started after Koufax and Drysdale burned out young (Walter Alston didn't believe in pitch counts - he needed to see a pitcher's arm detached from his body.) Casey didn't use a five man rotation in the way it's used today, but especially towards the end of his tenure in New York, it was unusual for anyone to make as many as 30 starts.

1949 - 4 man rotation, headed by Raschi (37 starts) and three guys with 30-31 (Reynolds, Byrne, Lopat).

1950 - Looks like one of today's 5 man rotations. Four pitchers with 29-32 starts, and two other guys each made 12.

1951 - Raschi (34) and Lopat (31); Reynolds made 26 starts and 14 relief appearances. No one else had more than 16 starts.

1952 - Raschi (31) and Reynolds (29); no one else had more than 19 starts.

1953 - Ford (30), Raschi (26), Lopat (24). Three guys with 15-19.

All five of these teams won the WS.

1954 - Ford led the staff with 28(!!) starts, and five guys were between 17-23. This was Casey's biggest winning team (103-51) and naturally, they finished second.

1955 - He rode Turley (34) and Ford (33); five guys with from 11-22.

1956 - Kucks (31), Ford (30), and three guys with 17-20

1957 - Sturdivant led the staff with 28, and five guys were between 17-23. It was 1954 all over again.

1958 - Turley (31), Ford (29) and six (!!) guys between 10-19.

1959 - Casey had six guys with 16-29 starts, led by Ford.

1960 - Ford (29) led five guys with at least 18 starts.

And everybody pitched relief.

Has anybody else ever run a staff like this? Would anybody else dare to try? Remember, this worked. They finished first 10 times in 12 years.

And most of the time, this is not the most impressive bunch of pitchers, with the exception of Whitey Ford. The first few teams, with Raschi, Reynolds, and Lopat - that's a good group. But the last few years, it's a bunch of people like Johnny Kucks and Tom Sturdivant and Bob Turley and Don Larsen.

Maybe it was Yogi...

Anyway, I got all fascinated and insist on sharing!!

DOG! DOG! DOG!

Woo-hoo!

O-Dog hits one out in the 402' power alley. 2-0 Jays.

What is Rogers thinking??

I originally thought that it had something to do with the Euro Cup, but TSN is running that. You'll notice that Sportsnet is not showing Sunday games, and that they are showing ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball, so maybe is there something with MLB that says they can only run one game per day? Or maybe it's part of their deal with ESPN.

Elsewhere, the Tampa Bay steamroller continues to crush the D-Backs. It's early, and it's only 2-0, but they are on their way to an 11th consecutive win. I sure feel sorry for whoever plays them next.

Ha-ha-ha.

OK, Batista, there's your two runs. Make it work.

What, you expect more?

...but remember, we're fielding the Opposite Jays this year, y'know, where Hinske plays great defense and Reed is our RBI leader. Last year the D-Rays owned us, but will they own the Opposite Jays? I don't think so.

Exactly. I fully expect a sweep of the D-Rays for that very reason. Just as I expected a sweep of the Angels a couple weeks ago.

It's hard to be ready for the Opposite Jays...

Oh damn, the O's just broke their losing streak. We'd better win this one to stay out of last place (on winning percentage).

The D-backs have the bases loaded with no outs.

OK, Batista's at 104 pitches through 7. Try and get him through the 8th and bring in Frasor?

Due-up: A pinch-hitter, Burroughs, Loretta.

If Batista isn't out for te 8th who is? Do the Jays have a "setup" man?

Arizona's comeback halted by Mark Hendricksen...

Well, Liam and I would like to yell out: "Jay Spy, the Setup-Guy!!

But, not so much anymore..

Tosca seems to have designated Speier and Chulk as his set-up men. Since Speier pitched last night, I say Chulk is in for the eighth.

I have a Batista stat for all of you, if you take away his first 4 starts of the season since then he has pitched 75 innings and allowed 26 ER's for sn ERA of 2.88

Not too shabby if you ask me.

I have a Batista stat for all of you, if you take away his first 4 starts of the season since then he has pitched 75 innings and allowed 26 ER's for sn ERA of 2.88

Yes, he has pitched better, but I don't think he's pitched as well as a 2.88 ERA (just going from memory). He's still walking too many - well, not so much today, but prior to today.

Howie Clark, trying to score from first on the Reed Johnson double, was out at the plate, and Ramon Hernandez was hurt on the play.

I think Batista should come back out for the eighth, with Frasor standing by for a four- or five-out save if needed. Let's not let the setup man blow another lead.

I missed Towers. Did he have anything interesting to say?

It's still Miguel's game, with Gomez in at SS as a defensive replacement.

Towers was good company, but didn't say anything earth-shattering. He considers Pat Gillick a mentor, and called J.P., who he knows well from their cross-checking days, an astute young GM who will only get better.

Well the Jays aren't the only ones having trouble with clutch hitting. My Leftover squad is 6/38 on the day with one walk. I now trail BA by .001 and OBP by .002.

Uh-oh...

How long does Batista go? He's really struggled this year late in games.

Bases loaded, Chulk time.

Oh please don't bring in Adams....

Thank goodness he isn't bringing in Adams.

This isnt happening, this isnt happening, this isnt happening....

If I say it enough times, it should come true...

The Incredible Chulk is coming in to a very tight spot. Bases loaded, one out, game on the line vs. Klesko.

2 strikes on Klesko, come on, Vinnie.

Vincredible! Popped him up.

I would have liked to see Chulk in to begin the inning. But it wasn't a bad move leaving Batista in.

Klesko was 10-24 against Batista coming into the game, and 2-3 today. I would have let Gil Patterson face him if I had to...

I'm guessing MLB Gameday is behind the radio from the fact I seem to be behind everyone else.

YO!!! VINNIE!!!

Vincredible Chulk!

Is this the perfect example of the 8th inning being more important than the 9th, thus making the "closer" role irrelevant?

I mean the 9th inning in this case (Cirillo, Ojeda, Vasquez) is not exactly a tall order.

Okay, I'm officially a Chulkamaniac

WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

They made him angry! He warned them they wouldn't like him when he's angry...

VINCREDIBLE!!!

Damm I'm way behind the action. My speakers don't work so I can't listen to it on the Fan, MLB.com gameday for some unknown reason doesn't load up on my browser, so I'm forced to watch CNNSI's site.

Good work Andrew K. Our combined brainpower kept Adams away from the pitching mound!

I called for it in another thread. Ligtenberg, Speier, Adams don't deserve to be the team's setup man, I don't care if "that's what they were paid and brought here to do" as Carlos Tosca always says. The job rightfully belongs to...

THE INCREDIBLE CHULK!!!

GOING, GOING, ZAUN!

GOING GOING ZAUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the 9th inning in this case (Cirillo, Ojeda, Vasquez) is not exactly a tall order

That will be Nevin leading off, but your point is correct. Giles and Klesko in the eighth were the two biggest AB in this game. I would have been tempted to use Frasor there, but it turned out fine. Even better, it will make Chulk all the more confident the next time he has to clean up a mess.

Going, going, ZAUN!!!

Going, going, ZAUN!!

If I'm the Jays I sub out Zaun for Cash in the bottom of the 9th for defensive purposes.

Hopefully they learned their lesson from last night that Zaun isn't exactly THE GREATEST defensive catcher.

If only there was a sub for the outfield to get Berg outta there...

GO JAYS!!

Wooo!! Now I remember why I'm a fan! This is fun!!

GOING! GOING! ZAUN!

I predict at least ten "going, going, Zaun" calls in the next two minutes.

Wooo Zaun! This rules.

Dammit, why isn't this game on TV??? Argh, this game would be fantastic to watch.

I give the best Zaun HR call to Jobu for his 26 !'s.
I get second prize for having the fastest post.

Ryan Lind, you'll have to post that again. "Wooo Zaun!" is not good enough here. :)

Oh boy, what do I win??

The exclamation marks slowed Jobu down.

Wow, 8 posts in the same minute with 5 "going going zaun" calls.

It looks like I missed the boat there, sorry Rob.

WTF, Gameday's going back in time. Chulk has just come into the game ....

I'll get my Zaun chant in when it 'officially' shows up on my screen!

Jobu wins a picture of another Dean tossing away a Red Sox cap, becoming a Jays fan.

Woohoo, Chulk just got Long to ground out.... this is weird.

Gameday's going back in time. Chulk has just come into the game ....

Maybe Zaun hit the ball so hard it reversed the rotation of the Earth and sent the game back in time, only in this universe, everyone plays baseball in bowler hats.

We could really do with a win this time... please don't screw up the 9th! Time for Tosca to bring on any defensive replacements he can find (Cash).

NDG: Bet with someone that Zaun will homer in the next inning. ;)

Alright!! A cool dean to nutralize the evil powers of the crusty old dean!!

Yes, beck in and Zaun homers on the third pitch.

GOING, GOING ZAUN!

Wow...

And all this time I thought Phelps was dead!

HE'S ALIVE!

I'm listening on the radio, and I just want to say that if I hear "Can you say tar-get prac-tice?" one more time, I might just go comp-lete-ly ball-ist-ic.

That is all.

P.S. Going, Going, Zaun!!!1!!!1!!! :-)

Hey, NDG

"I have seen the future and it's much like the present, only longer."

http://www.toad.net/~paco/players/Jobu.html
Huh. I Googled "Jobu" and found the following (COMN). Does that creep anyone else out?

Marital Status: Very single

I'll bet.

Dave: The old Epson ad was much worse, though Alarmforce is up there as well.

Going Going ZAUN

At least there are no Sure Hair International ads this year.

http://digital-nexus.org/img/jobu.jpg
That's not Jobu!! What a cheap imposter!!

COMN for the REAL Jobu

Man, I forgot how much fun game threads are.

Two things:

1) Why is Zaun still out there? Cash is better defensively.

2) I guess Nevin is really hurt, otherwise he would have pinch hit for Cirillo

NFH: What was that ad? I don't remember any hair commercials.

Frasor, two in a row!

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOU THAT??????????????????????????

Great victory!!! 2 Jacks, solid pitching by Bastista and the GameBall goes to Chulkster!

To quote the most annoying announcer of all-time, the ChiSox "Hawk"...

GAS!!! HE GONE!!!!!!!!!!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blue Jays win!!

Hot diggity that feels good!

I was surprised they didn't hit for Vazquez (Payton is available) - I know he's not really an .093 hitter, but still...

Jays WIN! Jays WIN!!

Ya know, when you score 8 runs in a three-game series and still win twice...

YEAAAH, a win, a win. Bring on the Rays.

It sounded like Frasor lost Cirillo on a pretty good pitch, or he might have struck out the side. Tremendous relief job today by Vinny and Jason, and a damn fine start by El Artista.

Bring on the satanic fish!

Tough loss for Brian Lawrence. I feel so bad for him.

I'll get over it.

Over it.

Fun to hang a tough loss on the other fella.

Player of the Game: Vinnie Chulk. What balls to come in and get two big outs in the eighth with the bases loaded, and then having to go out and do it a second time. Nerves of steel I tell ya.

Victor Zambrano pitching in relief of Lurch? If true, Lou is pulling out all the managerial stops -- he's the scheduled starter Tuesday.

Whoa, Lou...is it Game 7?

Wow, Jason Schmidt one hit the big bad Red Sox.

Jason Schmidt was awesome, again. Only 133 pitches this time; what a horse.

Wilner with some props to "GOING GOING ZAUN" on the post-game. Fun to hear.

What, no praise for Tosca bringing in Vincent Chulk in the 8th? I mean, if he brought Chulk in, and Vinnie gave up 5 runs, the blame would have surely gone to Tosca while Chulk would have been blame-free. Why is Tosca blasted for a reliever's inability to pitch, but virtually ignored when the reliever does well?

With that said, good to see the boys win with so many key injuries. We certainly have heart.

This year's pitching + last year's hitting = (drool)

June so far hasn't been all that bad really. Starting from the last day of May we've gone:

3-4 road trip
3-3 homestand
2-4 road trip

Given the huge number of missing players, this isn't a terrible return. The big question is when we will get the lineup back (and whether it will come back strong pretty much immediately).

(The other big question is what is going on with Phelps. Inquiring minds want to know!)

I'm a bit frightened about Tampa Bay. The statistical evidence is that they have been very lucky recently, but it would be very disappointing if we cannot play at least .500 in the next two blocks given the opposition (3&3 at home to TB and Montreal, 3&3 away to TB and Montreal). As I type this, Wilner is saying that both Carlos and Vernon are out for a while yet :(

I would pay good money to listen to Wilner argue with a Yankee fan every week. This stuff is gold.

I mean, if he brought Chulk in, and Vinnie gave up 5 runs, the blame would have surely gone to Tosca

I doubt many would have second-guessed the decision to pull a likely tired and struggling Batista after 117 pitches.

So is it going to be Halladay or Hentgen on Tuesday?

Halladay would have 4 days rest, and it would put the rest of the rotation into place for the most part.

Or will Hentgen get the ball?

We're 9.5 games out of a playoff spot!

They should take no risks with Halladay at the moment.

Rob, as dumb as this may sound, that's NOT bad when you take everything the Jays have gone through into account.

I'm glad they gutted out a win today, I'm left with a good feeling.

So, am I the only one who thinks that Cash AND Zaun should be in the lineup this coming series against TB?

Zaun at DH, Cash at catcher, I'm assuming Berg in left until Cat gets back with Clark at 1st against righties and Phelps at 1st against lefties.

Are all these safe assumptions?

I'm kind of surprised that the Jays are still starting Berg in left. How hard could it be to pick up a backup OF from another team? There has to be someone available, though admittedly I can't think of one. We got Menechino for a bag of peanuts; there has to be someone like him out there that plays OF.

They should take no risks with Halladay at the moment.

I'm generally much more conservative with how I'd use pitchers than most, but if Halladay's on regular rest I don't think there's a need to bump him back a day. I'd be more concerned with the quantity of his pitching than his frequency.

Plus Hentgen's been really bad this year.

Wow, the CFL got score mentions on the ESPN baseball radio coverage of the Dodgers/Yankees game. Who saw that comming, and how many Americans listening to the game had any clue what they were talking about when they said "Stampeders vs Roughriders"?

I know I'm hours too late but......Going....Going.....Zaun!What'd Wilner say about the cheer?

Great work all around from the pitching staff, and this is a solid start to what could be a very productive homestand.

NFH: What was that ad? I don't remember any hair commercials.

They run it on Q107 all the time, or used to. It's a hair loss treatment company, and a girl sings really really badly off-key "Sure Hair International, be su-ure abou-out your hai-air".

CFL just got some pretty big international distribution -- NESN, aka the Red Sox's network, runs CFL games now.

Wilner's Going Going Zaun was a very off the cuff comment. Just mentioned something like "Jays win with a little help of a going going Zaun shot in the 9th". But still fun to hear.

...and what was the fight with the Yankee fan? I didn't hear the post game, I went for a walk in the beautiful sunshine instead.

I love hearing Wilner take a strip off of dumb callers. The time he shouted at the caller criticising Cat for not running out that ground ball ("He can BARELY WALK!") I wanted to send him a gift basket.

Bizarre stat: After 78 AB, Rios still has just one RBI, which I believe occurred in his second game.

It wasn't really a "fight", but more of a disagreement with an overly enthusiastic caller who insisted, among other things, that the 2004 Yankees had the best offense in major league history. He was fairly well spoken, actually; just very wrong.

Just to add to what NFH mentioned, the CFL will be shown not only on NESN, but also in New York/New Jersey on Madison Square Garden Network and on Fox Sports New York.

For European coverage, CFL games will be seen on the North American Sports Network (NASN) which currently serves the UK but will soon be expanded to Germany and the rest of Europe later this year.

Oh yeah, Going Going Zaun!!!

Go CFL!

Keep on chuggin little guy...

Bittersweet day---nice road series win, but Catalanotto is likely headed back to the DL. Berg, Johnson, Rios? Will the Jays make a trade? Or is the most likely scenario a Simon Pond call up?

The five-man rotation is regarded today as something the Dodgers started after Koufax and Drysdale burned out young

I've never heard this, but it's a gross misreading of history if it's true. The four-man rotation (not the five-man one) is an historical oddity, mostly the product of the pitcher-friendly late 60s and continued in some cases into the late 1970s.

Check out the (randomly chosen) NL of 1949, for example; only one team (the Braves of Spahn, Sain, and Vern Bickford) use a four-man rotation. The rest use a five-man rotation; a couple of teams, like Cincy, skip to their ace (Ken Raffensberger) on an accelerated schedule (Raffensberger made 38 starts and led the NL) but mostly it's a pretty strict five-man rota.

Look at the 1937 AL (again, randomly chosen); every team uses a five-man rotation. The White Sox use a *six-man* rotation, with Sunday Teddy Lyons as the regular Sunday doubleheader starter.

In the 1955 AL, everyone's on a five-man. Whitey Ford is third in the league with 33 starts; even big-time starters only are getting 30-31.

It's only by 1964 that the four-man rotation starts to become more common; in the '64 NL about one-third the teams (notably the Cubs and Pirates) are using four-man more, although teams seem to switch back and forth through the year (longer rest in the hot months, I guess). Lots of teams, like the Dodgers, are using a longer rotation but skipping their ace (Drysdale) ahead.

It's a hair loss treatment company, and a girl sings really really badly off-key "Sure Hair International, be su-ure abou-out your hai-air".

Oh god, I do remember that one.

And the CFL in the US? I would have thought they'd be all footballed out (NFL, college, Arena, high school) and have no need for a wacky Canadian game with no fourth down. They did expand there 10 years ago, however. It was terrible, but they did expand...

Maybe there's an audience for a speed-oriented game? When all the biggest guys go to the NFL, it leaves you with a league of small, speedy guys.

I sure enjoy watching the CFL. I don't generally watch the NFL. I know, I'm the exception to the rule. ;)

Craig B, it's really hard to talk about pitching rotations in a short comment. In the deadball era, it was indeed common to have a 4 man rotation, with the additional proviso that it was also common for starters to come in from time to time in relief. This usage continued to some degree into the 20s and 30s. For instance, in Lefty Grove's greatest season in 1931, he started 30 games and relieved in 11.

It seems to me that the use of pitchers has historically marched in tandem with run scoring. In a low run environment, fewer pitchers and somewhat less rest is needed, as it is easier to "save one's stuff" to some degree. The contrary is true in a high run environment.

I sure enjoy watching the CFL. I don't generally watch the NFL. I know, I'm the exception to the rule.

The great thing about the CFL is no Warren Sapps, no Keyshawns. These guys are getting paid nothing compared to other athletes and they still play every week (twice now, for some teams). It's also neat to know someone down the street whose son plays for Saskatchewan.

And what's with the Ottawa "Renegades"? How much fun were those "Roughriders vs Rough Riders" games?

With regards to Rogers non-coverage on Sunday... They'd rather show NASCAR than their own product.