Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Minor League Update: May 26

You take wins any way you can get ‘em. One way or another, each of the Jays four minor league teams in action scraped up wins in a perfect sweep for the organization. Charleston and Dunedin both cruised to victory behind strong pitching and timely hitting, Syracuse pulled out a 9th inning comeback and (although it’s still unknown which charity will receive the proceeds) a Walk-a-thon broke out in New Hampshire.

Syracuse 8 Charlotte 7

Starter Chris Baker struggled early but the bats roared back to tie up the game at 6 apiece when Baker left after the 5th. Russ Adams led the way for the offense with 4 hits including a pair of doubles and another pair of RBI’s. Veterans Glen Williams, Bobby Estalella, and Marvin Benard each hit long balls. Benard was the hero on the night as his 2 run shot in the 9th was the game winner.

Vinnie Chulk finished the Knights off with 2 perfect innings, 1 K, for the win. On the not so bright side, Alexis Rios was 0 for 5 on the night and Gabe Gross managed a triple and three strikeouts.

Box score -MinorLeagueBaseball.com
Game Story -Syracuse Post-Standard
Official Skychiefs home page

Norwich 5 New Hampshire 6

The Fisher Cats starter Gustavo Chacin struggled but the Navigators pitchers had a very rough night yielding an astounding 13 walks on the night. Six separate Fisher Cats drew 2 free passes including Aaron Hill who also added 2 singles.

Chacin got a little help from reliever Dan Jackson who came on with the bases loaded in the 6th and struck out two batters to end the threat. Brandon League pitched two shutout innings. Adam Peterson came on in the 9th and gave up a run on a walk and a double but held on for the save.

Box score -MinorLeagueBaseball.com
Game Story-Union Leader and New Hampshire Sunday Times
Official Fisher Cats home page

Dunedin 7 Brevard County 1

Jesse Harper continues to embarass FSL hitters, going 5 innings giving up 4 hits, 2BB’s and 5 K’s. The only real blemish on Harper’s night was a solo shot to Clyde Williams in the 6th. Once his pitch count is up to full strength there can't be much holding him back from a promotion in the near future.

Offense was a team effort as 8 different Baby Jays reached base twice highlighted by a solo shot by Vito Chiaravalloti. Tracy Thorpe and Tommy Ozuna pitched two strong innings each to finish things off.

Box score -MinorLeagueBaseball.com
Dunedin Blue Jays official site

Kannapolis 2 Charleston 8

Two nights after Ryan Roberts hit two homeruns against Lexington, he repeated the feat to drive in all the runs Charleston would need. Catcher Joey Wolfe returned to action with a 3 run shot of his own.

Shaun Marcum rebounded from a rough outing last time to post six and a third strong innings giving up only 2 runs on 4 hits, 2 walks and 7 strikeouts. Felix Romero and Marcos Sandoval mopped things up for the organizational sweep.

Box score-MinorLeagueBaseball.com
Game Story -Charleston Gazette
Alley-Cats official site

Your Three-Star Selection:

I don’t want to say I’m entirely responsible for the organizational sweep, but I’d like to think that my first night as a Batters Box author inspired the young Jays teams. If I weren’t so modest I think we all know who the first star would be. Anyways…

The 3rd Star Ryan Roberts: 2-4 with 2 HR.
The 2nd Star Jesse Harper: 5 innings of 1 run ball.
The 1st Star Russ Adams: 4-5 with 2 doubles to extend his very nice little hot streak

Posted by Ryan01 on Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 09:10 AM EDT.

Minor League Update: May 26 | 104 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

_NDG - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 09:13 AM EDT (#61924) #

You didn't give Ryan Roberts first star? The rest of the Ryan cartel may want to have words with you.....

_Ryan01 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 09:21 AM EDT (#61925) #

We've decided it's best to assimilate the rest of the box slowly to the ways of the Ryan. At least I didn't give first star to one of those pesky Mike's.

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 09:31 AM EDT (#61926) #

Today's games: Syracuse (David Bush) visits Charlotte at 10:15 a.m. New Hampshire (Todd Ozias) hosts Norwich at 6:05. Dunedin (Ismael Ramirez) plays Brevard County at 7:05, and Charleston (TBA-Mastny?) is home to Kannapolis at 6:05. The Syracuse and NH games are on internet radio. I won't be able to do a good stretch of a game until Friday.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#61927) #

Re: I didn't give first star to one of those pesky Mike's

Hey, thems fighting words!

Gerry - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 09:48 AM EDT (#61928) #

Here are some May stats for you:


                  Ave    OBP    SLG
Russ Adams       .301   .356   .430
Alexis Rios      .239   .278   .478
Gabe Gross       .339   .438   .565
Aaron Hill       .297   .379   .440

Gross is having a great month. Adams and Hill are getting to where you would expect them to be. Rios's numbers are dragged down by his ten day slump mid-month.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 09:57 AM EDT (#61929) #

It's good to see Gross starting hitting, after spending haft a year in Syarcuse last year he should be a little more advanced than the other prospects in Syracuse.

I guess Gross has some ligament damage in his elbow, I'm not sure to what extent, it just keeps him from throwing, he can hit with no pain. Anybody know if he is going to require surgery at the end of the season, or can the problem be correct through therapy?

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#61930) #

1-0 Sky Chiefs top 3.

Gerry - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#61931) #

Benard home run top three, 2-0 Chiefs.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:13 AM EDT (#61932) #

Man, I turn on the Chiefs game, and the first thing I hear is a 3-run homer for Charlotte.

Gerry - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#61933) #

Bush just allowed a three run HR on a 92 MPH fastball on an 0-2 count. As they say about Bush - sometimes he gets too much of the plate.

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#61934) #

At least it's better to learn those lessons in Syracuse than in Toronto.

_Ryan01 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#61935) #

I'm not sure how serious Gross' injury is, but from what I understand about ligament damage in the elbow, the only real therapy short of surgery is rest. It appears they're just going with rest for now and hoping the pain will go away. Usually if there are about 2-3 failed attempts to resume throwing, the pain persists after 6 months or there is a complete tear in the ligament then surgery is considered.

If surgery becomes necessary then it probably mean he'll be stuck DH'ing for the rest of the season and likely a month or two late starting next season.

_Ken - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#61936) #

Can someone tell me where I can listen to the chiefs game? thanks.

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#61937) #

http://www.skychiefs.com
Click on my name for the Skychiefs website. The link to the radio broadcast is on the left side of the screen.

_Ken - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:25 AM EDT (#61938) #

Thanks, Mike.

robertdudek - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#61939) #

Marvin Benard apparently likes early starts. He hit another homerun - driving in a Russ Adams double, which had driven in two runs. Down 3-2 entering the inning, The Skychiefs now lead 6-3.

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#61940) #

You're welcome, Ken, except I goofed. The link is on the right side of the screen. Unlike Marvin Benard, I do not like early starts.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:35 AM EDT (#61941) #

David Bush, you are breaking my heart.

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#61942) #

I'm trying to connect to the Knights broadcast (don't have Real
Player at work) and I'm having server problems.

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#61943) #

According to the webcast on the Knights' website, Bush got a strikeout to start the fourth, but then gave up a homer, a double, and a run-scoring single. 6-5 SkyChiefs, Bush's line so far is 3.1 8 5 5 0 3.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#61944) #

2-2 after 3 in Charleston.

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#61945) #

Bush got a DP to get out of the 4th, and in the 5th Fagan already has an RBI single to plate Glenn Williams who had been HBP. Noah Hall has walked, and the bases are loaded for Jeff Guiel. Go Canada!

_Jacko - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#61946) #

We need to call up Fagan for the Angels series.

In my best Letterman voice:

"Chone Figgins, Shawn Fagan. Shawn Fagan, Chone Figgins".

Coach - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#61947) #

Kevin Frederick has been promoted to Syracuse. No word yet on who might be joining the Fisher Cats or what change the SkyChiefs are making to accomodate him. Frederick was 2-0 with a SV and a 1.27 ERA in 18 relief appearances. He allowed just 15 hits and 5 walks in 21.1 IP, striking out 26 Double-A batters.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#61948) #

After 5 in Charleston, still 2-2.

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#61949) #

It's now 9-6 Sky Chiefs after 5. Let's hope their D keeps Charlotte out of field goal range.

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#61950) #

Bob File came in to pitch a perfect 6th to help pick up Bush. Still 9-6 Syracuse, who have Hall on first and Clark on third with 2 out in the top of the 7th.

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 12:40 PM EDT (#61951) #

Bush's final line... 5 10 6 6 0 3 with two home runs allowed.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#61952) #

2-2 still in Charleston, 7 complete.

Gerry - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#61953) #

Bob File has pitched three perfect innings, 9 up, 9 down.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#61954) #

The Alley Cats website now says it's 7-2 Kannapolis after 7.

Gerry - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#61955) #

Syracuse wins 10-6. Bob File pitches a four inning save facing 13 batters. He allowed one hit in the ninth.

Bush allowed ten hits in his five innings. As noted earlier in the week, Bush's walk and strikeout numbers are good. It is his hits allowed that is not so good. Here are the counts that Bush allowed hits on today...

0-0 - 1 ( a DB)
1-1 - 1

2-1 - 1
3-1 - 1

0-1 - 3 (one a HR)
0-2 - 1 (a HR)
1-2 - 2 (one a DB)

Six of his ten hits were conceded when he was ahead in the count. Three of the four extra base hits were conceded when he was ahead in the count. The scouting reports do say Bush catches too much of the plate. However his K numbers are excellent at 8.2 per 9 IP.

I am not sure if it is pitch selection or location but it is a puzzle.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#61956) #

Kannapolis scores 1 in the top of the 8th to make it 8-2, but the Cats claw back (no pun intended) and score 6 in the bottom of the 8th.
Tied 8-8 in the top of the 10th now!

_Steve Z - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#61957) #

Thanks for the great report, Ryan01.

A few addditional links on this day:

** The Daily-Mail game story from Charleston (Roberts has four 2-HR games already!)

** The Jays 19th-round pick from 2003, freshman righty Adrian Martin, decided not to re-enter the draft, and signed with the Jays on Tuesday (he was given a nice 7th-rounder's signing bonus, apparently).

** A Hinseville Coastal-Courier article has the update on an optimistic Dustin McGowan (after treatment by Doc Andrews, and encouragement from Doc Halladay)

_Steve Z - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#61958) #

Thanks for the great report, Ryan! ("Ryan01" sounds too generic!)

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#61959) #

Gerry, unfortunately milb.com has just introduced count information into their logs. I was curious whether this has been a season-long phenomenon.

Anyways, the homer in the third was a real no-no. 0-2 count, runners on first and second in the third inning, up 2-0 in the game. Bush has very good control, and that's a situation where you've got to be on the margins of the strike zone or out of it. Mistakes do happen though.

Still there was nothing in the game log that showed me that Bush isn't ready for this level and more. He's still got a bit of learning to do, but I suspect we're talking 4-6 weeks.

_Ryan01 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#61960) #

Thanks Steve.

7 Strikeouts for Gross in his last 9 at-bats. Yuck. He was doing so well at cutting down the K's and upping the BB's for a couple weeks there but he seems to have reverted back to whatever he was doing at the start of the season.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#61961) #

Charleston and Kannapolis are still tied 8-8, now in the top of the 13th.

_Jacko - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#61962) #

Charleston and Kannapolis are still tied 8-8, now in the top of the 13th.

Sneeps -- is there an internet radio broadcast for this game?

jc

_David Paul - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#61963) #

...freshman righty Adrian Martin, decided not to re-enter the draft, and signed with the Jays on Tuesday...

My heavens. I didn't remember that the Jays had drafted any high schoolers.

Nothing too exciting here but I thought I'd have a look. In Derek Welvang's dissection of the Jays' 2003 draft (http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00000668.shtml) Martin is described as a "fairly polished, though undersized, righty with an 88-mph fastball and solid curve."

He was 5-2 with a 1.80 era and 46/3 K/BB in 35 IP for his Indian River Community College team which won their south Florida conference this spring.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#61964) #

Jacko - nope i'm just following along on the alley cats website.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#61965) #

Re: The Jays 19th-round pick from 2003, freshman righty Adrian Martin, decided not to re-enter the draft, and signed with the Jays on Tuesday (he was given a nice 7th-rounder's signing bonus, apparently).

Any other draft and follow that we could sign before the draft?

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#61966) #

Lefty Aric VanGaalen, from st.petersbug junior college. NOt sure where Paul Marlow is, Canadian High School pick from last year. THey still hold the rights to All american utiltiy man, Ryan Gordon from UNC. May 30th is the deadline.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#61967) #

Charleston wins 9-8 in the bottom of the 15th!!!
I feel another 4-0 night for the minor leaguers comin on.

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#61968) #

Live Chat on ESPN, for Draft Talk, nows your chance for Jays draft questions!!

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#61969) #

THey still hold the rights to All american utiltiy man, Ryan Gordon from UNC.

No, draft-and-follow does not apply to NCAA players. Once such players start their first class in September, the teams that draft them lose the right to sign them.

Adrian Martin has pitched very well at Indian River Community College, not just the 5-2, 1.80 but also a 46/3 K/W ratio in 35 innings. He's a solid addition.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#61970) #

Re: Martin is described as a "fairly polished, though undersized, righty with an 88-mph fastball and solid curve."

Since Martin is a highschool draft there is a very good possibility that velocity on his on his fast ball could go up as he phyically matures and gets stronger.

_Steve Z - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#61971) #

Btw, Martin threw five no-hit innings in his last start.

Where did you find his K/W stats, Craig?

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#61972) #

"No, draft-and-follow does not apply to NCAA players. Once such players start their first class in September, the teams that draft them lose the right to sign them."

No, Not true Craig B, Teams hold the rights to Senoirs Drafted as they are like draft and follows, May 31st is the deadline. Ie; AMOS DAY last year.

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#61973) #

Am i the only guy here who knows the rules regarding holding the rights to senoir college players?

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#61974) #

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/2004draft/04NC.html
COMN for BA link.

"Ryan Gordon, a talented but injury-prone two-way player, also should be solid senior signs. Santos, who led the Cape Cod League in saves last summer, has shown a durable arm under a heavy workload, carrying the Spartans' bullpen. Gordon, who was North Carolina's prep player of the year in 1999 over Josh Hamilton, has plus speed and a knack for making consistent, hard contact. However, he's not physical enough to hold up as an everyday player, and scouts like him better on the mound, where he throws 88-90 and spins a good breaking ball in short relief appearances. He's a fifth-year senior whose rights belong to the Blue Jays until the beginning of the closed period May 31"

I think he is the only NCAA senoir draft and follow the jays have this year.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#61975) #

Baseball America's Jim Callis is doing a live chat on espn and is predicting that the jays will take a pitcher in the first round and it will be either Texas A&M LHP Zach Jackson or Virginia Commonwealth RHP Justin Orenduff. Lets pretend the that BA is right, though I find they are wrong more often than not, I take Orenduff, just because he's more of a power pitcher, where as Jackson is more finess pitcher.

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#61976) #

You're right. I forgot the rules about fifth-year players; I had also thought that Gordon was a regular junior. Double boo-boo.

Gerry - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#61977) #

The Jays drafted Brad Depoy another HS, in the 20th round of the 2003 draft, right after Martin.

He signed with Univ. of Houston, and once he entered class in September the Jays lost his rights. He had a 13.50 ERA in seven games with the Cougars this spring.

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#61978) #

Justin, has been lights out, the last 2 years.

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#61979) #

Yep, Baseball America, said JP and scouts hoped Bradley Depoy, would go the junior college route. Apparently he was clocked at 94mph. He would of been antoher decent draft and follow. Hopefully, the jays will take more chances like these.

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#61980) #

Hey, whatever happened to those twins from Thornhill, have both been released from the Braves?

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#61981) #

I take Orenduff, just because he's more of a power pitcher, where as Jackson is more finess pitcher

Jackson's got the performance edge, but it's pretty slight. He's also a lefty, which is a plus in my books as the system isn't deep in lefties. Orenduff probably has the higher ceiling because of the mid-90s heater, but you're looking at a guy who throws two pitches and isn't particularly deceptive. He could be years away.

Jackson, as I said, has a small performance edge, and he's got the extra pitch. I think I'd take Jackson over Orenduff if I thought there were some mechanical adjustments I could get him to make, but only the scouts would be able to tell. But throwing 88, that change of his is going to have to be pretty fantastic to make him a top-of-the-rotation guy.

I might rather have David Purcey than either...

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#61982) #

Jackson, does not have the type of the usual lefty soft tossers, I say they should pass on him, or try to get him with the 32nd pick.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#61983) #

Re: I might rather have David Purcey

Purcey got talent, but struggles with his control & overall mechanics
so I just can't see JP ( command the strike zone ) Ricciardi being to
enamored with Purcey.

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#61984) #

Scott Lewis and JP howell, are good lefties, who have had better numbers then Jackson, but throw in the high 80's.

_Dean - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#61985) #

With their 1st few picks the Jays, small market club, need to draft some impact players. I think you have to value tools, within reason, with these picks and that means leaving soft tossing lefties on the board.

_Steve Z - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#61986) #

http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=minorbaseball&page=milb-sa/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GameID=11076
COMN for the Alley Cat boxscore.

Roberts was a mere 0-2 (with 5 BB, 1 IBB, 1 HBP!) while David Smith went 3-4 with 3 BB!

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#61987) #

Dean, you could easily turn that sentiment on its head and say that the Jays, as a small market club, need to avoid makign expensive mistakes with their #1 picks.

I generally agree with you, which is why I look at a guy like Purcey with much more enthusiasm than a guy like Jackson. The Jays need to get stars (which is hard enough to do), but the way to get stars isn't necessarily to grab a whole bunch of guys with really high upside. It can be to grab players who you're confident will be good big leaguers and look among that subset for the guy with the desire and makeup to be that little bit more.

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#61988) #

0-for-2 with five walks and a HBP is a very odd stat line!

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#61989) #

Incidentally, if anyone has RealPlayer you can watch Orenduff in action right now for VCU against William & Mary in a playoff game. Head over to the William & Mary site for the streaming video.

Chris Rahl is in action for W&M; he's one of the top performing position players in the NCAA.

_CB - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 05:00 PM EDT (#61990) #

http://www.tribeathletics.com/liveaudio.html

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#61991) #

Still no runs, alowed by Brian Reed. Not bad for a 27th round pick.

_Jacko - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#61992) #

0-for-2 with five walks and a HBP is a very odd stat line!

I did a double take when I saw that. The first questions that popped nto my head were "is he hurt? why did they pull him early?"

I am really happy about getting real-time boxscores from the minors, but does anyone else find the formatting of the MILB boxes a little annoying? The first four columns of any boxscore should be AB, R, H, RBI.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#61993) #

Re: leaving soft tossing lefties on the board.

the problem with soft tossing lefties is at best you're getting a .500 pitcher, and more often than not these guys just end up as inning eating middle relievers.

I know that's just me being bias, but only becuase I still wear the scars of 1987 and that soft tossing, junk balling Frank Tanana beating my bluejays 1-0 and killing my innocence forever!! But I'll be ok, just no soft tossing left handers pleeeease!!

_Dean - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 05:14 PM EDT (#61994) #

Craig B, I agree the Jays have to be careful but in doing so they must also ensure that they don't use these early picks on guys who don't have the ability or projectability to be front end guys in a rotation or one of your starting nine. There are no guarantees in anything but if a guy projects as a utlity player or a specialist out of the pen they shouldn't take him in the 1st three rounds, especially this year with five picks..

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#61995) #

Yes, Dean, I think we agree there. Jackson projects a little better than that, he's definitely talked about as a first-rounder by almost everyone, but he's just not seen as a #1 is all, more as a #3 guy (like a lot of lefties are). The thing with Jackson is (like Purcey) he's a big big boy. It's possible that someone may be able to work with him to squeeze some more cheese out of that left arm, to bring him up to the 90-91 range where a plus changeup like Jackson's can be devastating instead of just effective. But you'd have to be able to see that in him. I'm no scout, and I haven't even seen Jackson, so I just don't know.

But I bet that whoever picks him, will be a team that look at him and see a harder thrower inside him trying to get out.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#61996) #

Orenduff is winning 4-1

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 05:52 PM EDT (#61997) #

Craig B & Dean the chat you two are have is interesting if for no other reason it bring up that old debate when drafting in the first round, take the best talent or draft what you need. So here's a question, come draft day and it time for the jays to pick and Jackson is still availble, but so is a higher rated right handed pitcher, who do you pick?

_Dean - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 06:06 PM EDT (#61998) #

Goatboy, if its close I would take Jackson because he is lefthanded, right now as a fan I'm torn between Jackson, Purcey and Orenduff. Actually I'd like them to take Hughes but knowing the mind-set of JP & company I'll stick with the college guys too. Like Craig B said too, I'm no scout either and just go with what I read. Jim Callis @ Baseball America compared the college pitcher from each year who was rated as having the best tools vs the pitcher with the most polish and compared their results in the Show & the stuff guys fared better. By Callis's own admission this was unscientific and did not take into account injuries or parks, just wins, losses, era, and I think games started or appearances.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#61999) #

Dean I am not a scout either, and read to get my information as well, but with pitchers there is so many intangibles it is sometimes hard to know where to begin. You and Craig B touch on a couple, but there's one you missed, and it's an important one, and that's mental toughness. You don't want a guy that's going to cave when thing get tough, that's one of the things I like about Orenduff, he's got toughness in spades. You combine this with his other attributes and makes him in my eyes a pretty good pick.

_fishercatsradio - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 06:48 PM EDT (#62000) #

http://nhfishercats.com
End of 3 in Manchester tonight---New Hampshire 0 Norwich 0. Todd Ozias starting, has allowed 1 hit and 1 walk, 3 K's through 3.

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 06:53 PM EDT (#62001) #

Thanks FCR. I'll get to the game a little later, although it might be over by 8:15 the way it has started.

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#62002) #

You don't want a guy that's going to cave when thing get tough, that's one of the things I like about Orenduff, he's got toughness in spades.

I don't buy this, by the way. To me, what matters far more in a prospect in his early twenties is intelligence and determination. Toughness might help you in a game situation; it won't help you become a better pitcher.

Coach - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#62003) #

whatever happened to those twins from Thornhill

Last I heard, Michael and Steve Reiss were on the York University team but one (I'm not sure which) wasn't pitching much any more. They were, if memory serves, drafted in consecutive rounds (somewhere in the mid-20's) back in 2000 but didn't sign. In 2002, they fared poorly with the Braves Rookie-level club then presumably came home to finish their education.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 07:20 PM EDT (#62004) #

Re: Toughness might help you in a game situation; it won't help you become a better pitcher

Craig B I agree totally with your comment. I'm not for a minite suggesting toughness will make you a better pitcher. My point is you want your starting pitchers to battle through tough innings, to go that 6 or 7 innings when he does not have his best stuff. Like Orenduff did today when he reportedly ( by the play by play guys )did not have his best stuff.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#62005) #

Re: intelligence and determination

Determination - is this not a form of toughness

_Thorn - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#62006) #

Been gone for a day or so but would like to chime in. I too would like to take a leftie because they are very hard to find. Don't ever discount the ability pitch as opposed to being able to throw hard.Now if you have both then you have something very special(Randy Johnson).Greg Maddux comes to mind when I think of pitchers as opposed to throwers. That's what makes the world go round and round, we are entitled to different opinions and views. By the way, glad to see Harper throw well again down in Florida. I visited with some folks that have been watching and they say that he is dominating hitters without his best stuff yet.He has a few more walks than he should, but I heard that he is using this time to "work on some things".I also think that him being there is very good for Banks as well. They are very similar in style ,velocity, and control abilities. I think that they push each other well. If you ratio out the innings then they are very comparable. I still have not heard anything encouraging about Arnold. Any news there? How about Marcum?

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 07:32 PM EDT (#62007) #

Thorn - Marcum is fine, he pitched yesterday and picked up a win with a fine performance.

_Thorn - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#62008) #

Thanks sneeps, that is good to hear.Seen where Thorpe got in a couple of good innings yesterday also.

_goatboyT - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 07:39 PM EDT (#62009) #

thorn since you've been away perhaps you haven't heard Arnold has a shoulder injury. I heard the Syracuse play by play guy talking about it on the radio a couple of days ago Unfortunately he did not go into details so I don't know how bad the injury is.

_fisher cats rad - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 07:41 PM EDT (#62010) #

End of 6 in Manchester, Fisher Cats lead Norwich 2-0. Maikel Jova with an RBI single in the 4th. Aaron Hill, who singled, scored on a Navigator error. Todd Ozias lifted after 5.1 IP, 4 H, 1 BB, 6 KO.
John Ogiltree out of pen with bases loaded and 1 hit and gets Cervenak to ground into double play.

_goatboy - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#62011) #

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:RVbzpQWUolgJ:www.baseballamerica.com/today/2004draft/drafttracker.html+baseball+america+%22+Zach+Jackson%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Here's how baseball america rates is top 30 draft choice COMM

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 08:29 PM EDT (#62012) #

Yikes! bad outing

_JohnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#62013) #

Ogiltree, grew up just up the street from me. Hopefully he will get the call one day.

Craig B - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#62014) #

Determination - is this not a form of toughness

No. Determination means desire and drive to succeed. That's not being tough - at least not in baseball terms.

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#62015) #

The F-Cats defeated Norwich 2-0 behind Ozias, Ogiltree, Jackson and Peterson, who threw a combined 4 hitter with 2 walks and 8Ks.

Dunedin trails Brevard County 1-0 after 1.

_johnnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#62016) #

Jp is on the fan right now, DJ Hanson, is apparently throwing and should be ready soon.

_johnnnyS99 - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#62017) #

Jp is on the fan right now, DJ Hanson, is apparently throwing and should be ready soon.

_Sneeps - Wednesday, May 26 2004 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#62018) #

That's good news. I was under the impression that we wouldn't be seeing DJ at all this year.

robertdudek - Thursday, May 27 2004 @ 01:01 AM EDT (#62019) #

My statistical rankings show J.P. Howell at #2 in Division 1 for 2004. There are definitely a bunch of guys who are getting more hype. So ...

My questions are: What are the chances of Howell being available when the Jays make their first selection and how likely is it that the Jays would take him with their first pick if he were available.

Mike Green - Thursday, May 27 2004 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#62020) #

David Bush's start to the season has put an exclamation point to the differences between BA and BP. BP's take is essentially that Bush's performance with respect to the three true outcomes (walks, strikeouts and homeruns) is so good that he is right on track. BA's view boils down to: his fastball is not so fast, and he leaves it out over the plate too much, so he gives up too many hits.

Bush's H/IP last year was pretty good, and I'm inclined to agree with BP that his difficulties this year in this respect are mostly bad luck and defence. It'd be nice to have "line drive percentage" stats for minor leaguers.

_Dean - Thursday, May 27 2004 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#62021) #

71 hits in 59 innings is an awful lot of bad luck. I'll stick with BA's assessment. Bush, like most of JP's picks, throws an average fastball with good command but if his location is off AAA batters will make him pay. As the guys at Charleston advance they will have the same difficulties.

_Sneeps - Thursday, May 27 2004 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#62022) #

Yikes, that article says Quiroz could be out for 4 more weeks. That's not what we were led to believe. It was supposed to be 3-4 weeks, and it's been 3 now. Grrr.

robertdudek - Friday, May 28 2004 @ 12:48 AM EDT (#62023) #

71 hits in 59 innings is an awful lot of bad luck. I'll stick with BA's assessment.

You do that Dean. One question though - if Bush is leaving his average fastball out over the plate too much, why are they not hitting it over the wall?

_Sneeps - Friday, May 28 2004 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#62024) #

Robert you really go out of your way to defend David Bush. He's a terrific pitcher, but he's not above criticism by any means. By the way, he's allowed 5 homeruns's in 59 innings. That's NOT good.

Craig B - Friday, May 28 2004 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#62025) #

he's allowed 5 homeruns's in 59 innings. That's NOT good.

It's a fair sight better than the league average, for what it's worth.

Among the 25 IL pitchers with the most innings, Bush is 6th in fewest home runs allowed per inning. He's first in strikeouts per nine innings. He's 6th in strikeout-to-walk ratio.

He also has the second-most hits per nine innings. I'm convinced, like Robert, that that's not representative of his real ability.

_Dean - Friday, May 28 2004 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#62026) #

I read last year that the Jays were trying to get Bush to pitch more for contact to get deeper into games. Similarily nothing that I have read suggests that Bush is overpowering, he is no Talley Haines either, and that he does rely on his command which is supposed to be pretty good. I just thought the BP analysis glossed over the hits allowed and that bad luck & poor defense didn't tell the whole story. I also can't wait for Bush to get to the Show, where I think he will settle into the 3rd starter role.

robertdudek - Friday, May 28 2004 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#62027) #

I also can't wait for Bush to get to the Show, where I think he will settle into the 3rd starter role."

We at least agree on that. A rotation of Halladay, Batista, Lilly, Miller and Bush is one I like.

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