The "Hentgen for Closer" campaign hasn't quite managed to reach the ears of the decision-makers at Skydome yet. So his rooters at Batter's Box will have to content themselves with his start tonight against one of Anaheim's big free-agent pitchers, Bartolo Colon, who nevertheless has been dogged by reports of diminished velocity lately. The Jays got a gift win last night, but one they worked hard for and deserved; they'll try to keep it going against the league-leading Angels after a rare Tuesday off-day. No word yet on the status of Carlos Delgado and Orlando Hudson.
And Catalanotto is still not in the line up, which I believe means he'll be put on the DL.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=240526114
Full lineups tonight (COMN):
Eckstein ss
Figgins cf
Guerrero dh
Guillen lf
DaVanon rf
B. Molina c
Kotchman 1b
Halter 3b
Kennedy 2b
Johnson rf
Menechino 2b
Wells cf
Delgado dh
Zaun c
Pond lf
Phelps 1b
Hinske 3b
Gomez ss
So the Jays' bench is...Cash and Berg.
Full lineups tonight (COMN):
Eckstein ss
Figgins cf
Guerrero dh
Guillen lf
DaVanon rf
B. Molina c
Kotchman 1b
Halter 3b
Kennedy 2b
Johnson rf
Menechino 2b
Wells cf
Delgado dh
Zaun c
Pond lf
Phelps 1b
Hinske 3b
Gomez ss
So the Jays' bench is...Cash and Berg.
Why is Guerrero DHing? Is he hurting like Carlos?
Dr: they might just be being cautious with Vlad's back on the carpet...
Oh boy, Pats got no stach. NfH is going to have to airbrush The Hentgen sign I guess. I bet though, Pat's just sending the Cheer Club a message. He doesn't want to close.
Vernon unloads off Colon... high fly ball off the face of the 2nd deck in left field. 1-0 Jays.
Sorry, there was some odd static in the thread. Seems to have resolved itself. Way to go V-Dub!
I miss Cat too, by the way.
I miss Cat too, by the way.
Yeah, I think its pretty safe to say Vernon has it worked out now.
I was getting pretty tired of the carping about him. Sit him, drop him in the line up etc.
I was getting pretty tired of the carping about him. Sit him, drop him in the line up etc.
Greymatter is misbehaving today; I just had to do a bit more surgery.
Nice play by Gomez and Phelps, although the ump blew the call. We'll take it.
Nice play by Gomez and Phelps, although the ump blew the call. We'll take it.
Just have to ask:
3 pitch strikeout to Carlos in the 1st, all on swing strikes.
Did Carlos look disinterested, or was Colon that revived up?
3 pitch strikeout to Carlos in the 1st, all on swing strikes.
Did Carlos look disinterested, or was Colon that revived up?
So if you're a "Hentgen for closer" booster (frankly, I think it's ridiculous) do you want him to have a good start, or a bad one?
Coach, I don't know if you or anyone else noticed but the Box was offline for about 20 minutes sometime around 18:30 your time.
bin.. He was throwing 97 mph. Cut Carlos some slack.
Thanks, Lefty. Actually I just got home from a high school game (the good guys won, 9-3, with a bat-around third inning) and didn't notice, but I'm not surprised. There have been ghosts in the machine all day. It could have been a server hiccup, or just our software misbehaving.
I'm looking for Hentgen to pitch around 140 innings with an era of 4.40-4.70 and ten or more wins.
Dez:
I'm 'watching' the game on GameDay. I have no idea how fast/good the pitches were.
...your answer, though, seems to indicate that Colon was a tad miffed at the VW HR and took it out on CD.
I'm 'watching' the game on GameDay. I have no idea how fast/good the pitches were.
...your answer, though, seems to indicate that Colon was a tad miffed at the VW HR and took it out on CD.
http://me.woot.net
Server hiccup. I don't know if the Greymatter troubles we've been having are related or not, and I don't know what caused the server problem, but it wasn't hardware-related as the machine hasn't had any downtime. Ah well, joy of the Internet.
Server hiccup. I don't know if the Greymatter troubles we've been having are related or not, and I don't know what caused the server problem, but it wasn't hardware-related as the machine hasn't had any downtime. Ah well, joy of the Internet.
Yeah, bin, he's struck everybody out since then. That last pitch to Pond was filthy -- it started a foot inside and tailed back into the zone at the last second.
Not too loudly, or else he'll hear, but Colon had that one game last year where he threw 120 pitches and 120 fastballs, and he's just forgotten about it.
Throw the damn fastball, meathead. It's very hard to hit.
Throw the damn fastball, meathead. It's very hard to hit.
Ouch. Hentgen walked the leadoff man, then left a curve that didn't break much up in the zone, middle of the plate, and Halter just killed it. 2-1 Halos.
See how Hentgen mowed down the first six batters, and is now having a rough start to the third?
Closer! ;-)
Closer! ;-)
A much better fourth inning for Hentgen, and the Jays really made Colon work in the third, though they didn't score. Maybe it's breakthrough time right here.
Four complete for Hentgen. So far a walk and a solo shot for the only hit. I be pretty happy to see two more scoreless from him.
Man, that Colon two-seamer, if that's what it is, just kills lefty batters. It appears to be inside, then has tremendous late movement back over the plate. Delgado was caught looking at it, and I can't blame him. An awesome pitch. Zaun swung through a heater, and that's six strikeouts through four, with the big fella showing no signs of fatigue.
Bengie Molina has two career triples and two career stolen bases.
Great play by Hinske, not giving up on the Molina tapper of Pat's shin. Dug the ball off the carpet and fired a strike to first submarine style. I tell ya, my eyes this whole season tell me that Hinske is vastly improved on D.
Bases loaded, two out. Hentgens gets Figgins to ground out to second. Yes.
88 pitches for Hentgen on five innings. The meat of the Angels order due up to start the sixth.
Do you let Hentgen start the inning?
Do you let Hentgen start the inning?
Lefty, if you're asking what I do in Strat-O-Matic or DMB, I take him out. Got my five from him, let a rested pen take over.
In real life, Pat goes back out if we're not ahead. Gotta let him try to gut out the 6th and pick him up the win.
In real life, Pat goes back out if we're not ahead. Gotta let him try to gut out the 6th and pick him up the win.
Can I take off the fan hat, and put on the analyst hat, for just a sec, and complain about this team's popgun offense? With Myers, Cat, and Woody out and Hinske struggling this team's hamstrung bad.
that's six strikeouts through four, with the big fella showing no signs of fatigue
Colon doesn't fatigue. He just loses interest.
The guy's a machine. One of the game's great inning eaters.
Colon doesn't fatigue. He just loses interest.
The guy's a machine. One of the game's great inning eaters.
Naka-naka-naka-naka-naka-naka-MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-ra!
OK, am I still allowed to love Vlad even though he did that?
OK, am I still allowed to love Vlad even though he did that?
Time for the Nakamura experiment to end...the Twins don't let good pitchers go for no reason...
Charge that third run to Simon Pond. That was a truly awful play in LF; you have to hit like Manny Ramirez to make that kind of defence tolerable.
Nakamura is responsible for the rest of this mess; he has looked like a Triple-A pitcher since the Jacque Jones HR about four appearances ago.
Nakamura is responsible for the rest of this mess; he has looked like a Triple-A pitcher since the Jacque Jones HR about four appearances ago.
I take full responsibility for Nakamura sucking recently-I picked him up on my fantasy team right before the Jones HR-not sure he's had a decent outing since.
The move to take Hentgen out will probably get second guessed now but in my view - right move wrong reliever. I think the AL has figured out the funky delivery. I have a feeling that Mike is about to discover some of Northern NY's finest dining establishments.
Time for the Nakamura experiment to end...the Twins don't let good pitchers go for no reason...
Nonsense, they do all the time.
Nonsense, they do all the time.
If Mike hasn't been going that well lately that's all the less reason to bring him into the middle of a one run game. Just because the inning says 6 and not 8 or 9 doesn't mean you can't bring in your better relievers. Mike has no velocity so his control has to be spot on for him to be effective.
Check out this play from the Red Sox/A's game:
Mark Bellhorn reaches on force attempt, throwing error by shortstop Bobby Crosby. David McCarty scores. Kevin Youkilis scores. Johnny Damon scores. Mark Bellhorn to 2nd.
Crosby must have thrown it somewhere the sun don't shine to have all 3 guys score. And while I'm on the fantasy jinx talk-I just traded Lowe, so it figures that he gets good run support (it's 6-2).
Mark Bellhorn reaches on force attempt, throwing error by shortstop Bobby Crosby. David McCarty scores. Kevin Youkilis scores. Johnny Damon scores. Mark Bellhorn to 2nd.
Crosby must have thrown it somewhere the sun don't shine to have all 3 guys score. And while I'm on the fantasy jinx talk-I just traded Lowe, so it figures that he gets good run support (it's 6-2).
In real life, Pat goes back out if we're not ahead. Gotta let him try to gut out the 6th and pick him up the win.
Craig B didn't second guess and I agreed with the above mentioned. Hentgen pitched a nice game. At least compared to his 04 form. I think he deserved the shot at the sixth, but then I don't know how he felt and what the discussion he and Tosca probably had between innings.
Craig B didn't second guess and I agreed with the above mentioned. Hentgen pitched a nice game. At least compared to his 04 form. I think he deserved the shot at the sixth, but then I don't know how he felt and what the discussion he and Tosca probably had between innings.
Pond was able to sum up the entire season in one play.
Vernon's pitch selection has been a whole lot better recently. Another walk.
Yeah, Delgado HR! He seems to have figured something about Colon out. Jays back in it.
Carlos D, putting to rest those pesky rumours.
Yeah I hope he's making a statement.
Yeah I hope he's making a statement.
Lets see Brian Morris do That!!!!
Hahaha.
It's okay if your knee is sore when you're just jogging around the bases. :)
Hahaha.
It's okay if your knee is sore when you're just jogging around the bases. :)
As someone who's only really gotten back into baseball over the past couple years, and who didn't grow up in Southern Ontario, I'm a little fuzzy on the whole Tom/Jerry situation. Can someone tell me why they take turns doing the play-by-play? Is there any truth to the rumours that they don't really like each other, something I've heard from a couple of different people. It seems somewhat odd.
Pond's having a night that might get him sent to the 'Cuse in favour of Bernard. I'd like to see him stay but unless you want to start taking AB's away from Hinske his defense just doesn't cut it right now.
LHP Jason Christiansen is warming up in the Jays bullpen?! I missed a meeting.
Did Tom Cheek just massively mispronounce "Kershner"?!
Cerutti's telling the 240 burgers at White Castle story ... Quick poll, how many of those went to Molina and Colon?
Nothing like a 272 pound stinky Colon to start a rally.
Excellent AB for Hinske, then Tosca played little ball with Gomez, who got the bunt down nicely.
Colon is now at about 110 pitches but still bringing the 95 mph gas to Sparky. After falling behind 0-2, Reed almost beat out an infield chopper, but at least it cashed in a run to make it 5-4.
Colon is now at about 110 pitches but still bringing the 95 mph gas to Sparky. After falling behind 0-2, Reed almost beat out an infield chopper, but at least it cashed in a run to make it 5-4.
Watching the game here from home, it seems to me that part of the reason the 'Dome feels so sterile is due to those seats right behind home plate. I know they cost an arm and a leg more than a normal ticket, but it never looks good when people sitting in the '1st and 2nd row' have empty seats among them. The people sitting there look so isolated and I get the feeling that sitting there does not lead to the atmosphere you want the viewers at home believing is a representation of the whole crowd. Am I nuts on this, or could this situation be improved?
Walking Menechino with Wells on deck tells you that Bartolo (117 pitches) was all done. For the second straight game, the Fighting Jays have battled back against a pretty good club. C'mon, Vernon!
Off topic-
Ryan Lind - Do you recall in the Game 39:Game 39 thread our mini discussion about themost combined letters int he last name of a pair of teammates whod rive each other in (phew)? Well, I sent the question to Jayson Stark, telling him I was inspired by Catalanotto and Menechino and that, with your suggestion, I found that Pierzynski drove in Mientkiewicz on May 8th to set the record as far as I knew (phew, again). I got the reply today, and this info was so useless, he had to fully capitalize a word ;-). Here's the reply:
"now THAT'S useless information. we'll throw it out there and see what happens.
thanks for writing."
The "THAT" made me proud ;-)
Ryan Lind - Do you recall in the Game 39:Game 39 thread our mini discussion about themost combined letters int he last name of a pair of teammates whod rive each other in (phew)? Well, I sent the question to Jayson Stark, telling him I was inspired by Catalanotto and Menechino and that, with your suggestion, I found that Pierzynski drove in Mientkiewicz on May 8th to set the record as far as I knew (phew, again). I got the reply today, and this info was so useless, he had to fully capitalize a word ;-). Here's the reply:
"now THAT'S useless information. we'll throw it out there and see what happens.
thanks for writing."
The "THAT" made me proud ;-)
The flammable one has appeared on the mound with his gas can in tow. He is due for a 1-2-3 sequence one of these nights.
I'm a little fuzzy on the whole Tom/Jerry situation. Can someone tell me why they take turns doing the play-by-play? Is there any truth to the rumours that they don't really like each other, something I've heard from a couple of different people.
It's not unusual for radio broadcast teams to take turns every couple of innings. Presumably there's more talking to do than on TV, so a break is welcome. Also, they're not the more typical broadcaster plus ex-player combination.
The rumours about them not liking each other have been around a long time. I'm not sure you'd ever get anyone close to the situation to come out and publicly admit it, though. It became telling several years back when they first introduced a third member to the broadcast team, to sit in the middle (literally) and to act as the colour guy for whoever was calling the play-by-play.
To their credit, they are only ever professional to each other on the air.
It's not unusual for radio broadcast teams to take turns every couple of innings. Presumably there's more talking to do than on TV, so a break is welcome. Also, they're not the more typical broadcaster plus ex-player combination.
The rumours about them not liking each other have been around a long time. I'm not sure you'd ever get anyone close to the situation to come out and publicly admit it, though. It became telling several years back when they first introduced a third member to the broadcast team, to sit in the middle (literally) and to act as the colour guy for whoever was calling the play-by-play.
To their credit, they are only ever professional to each other on the air.
The flammable one has appeared on the mound with his gas can in tow.
He's in a can't win situation with the fans tonight. If he pitches poorly, it's because he sucks. If he pitches well, it's because the team is losing and there's no pressure.
He's in a can't win situation with the fans tonight. If he pitches poorly, it's because he sucks. If he pitches well, it's because the team is losing and there's no pressure.
"Tough play by Hinske, wow, what a third base he has played this year...." ~ Tom or Jerry
Interesting...
Interesting...
Just heard that too Donkit-it was Jerry. Congrats on the Stark thing-it'll be fun to read in his next article knowing where it came from. Finally a solid inning from Adams.
I tell ya, my eyes this whole season tell me that Hinske is vastly improved on D.
Mine too, Lefty. Anyone who saw that last play would have to agree. Only a quick release gets that out, and he threw a fastball strike.
Mine too, Lefty. Anyone who saw that last play would have to agree. Only a quick release gets that out, and he threw a fastball strike.
Boy would a Pond HR be nice here. Although he did look rather silly last night vs. FRod.
A solid inning from Adams, his first appearance after I let him go in the BBFL ...
I've thought for awhile that Hinske was much improved at getting to the ball this year, but still awful when it came to his release. Within the last two weeks or so, even that looks improved. Let's wait and see if it's a small sample size or something to get excited about...
I've thought for awhile that Hinske was much improved at getting to the ball this year, but still awful when it came to his release. Within the last two weeks or so, even that looks improved. Let's wait and see if it's a small sample size or something to get excited about...
Phelps seems to be swinging a lot better recently-perhaps due to his move down the order, maybe just seeing it better.
K-rod could make the all star team.
Sarcasm works better with a smiley ;)
Sarcasm works better with a smiley ;)
Donkit -- hahaha, that's awesome. Next useless info article shall be a must-read.
Back on topic, how about we trade Delgado for K-Rod. :shifty:
Back on topic, how about we trade Delgado for K-Rod. :shifty:
Percival isn't exactly automatic lately. He's worked a perfect inning just once in his last nine appearances, with 6 BB and 4 K in that span. He's blown two saves, though he vultured the win in one of them, and his opponents AVG has risen from .143 to .246 this month.
Youneverknow...
Youneverknow...
Delgado for K-Rod and Kotchman... is there any need for a shifty here? (except for the obvious fact that Delgado is going nowhere... but woudl you do that if Delgado asked ot be traded, for example?)
Tom Niehaus and Rick Rizz share the Mariners broadcsts as well. They generally swap at the bottom of the 4th. They also do the TV broadcast as well when aired. Dave Valle and Dave Henderson do the colour (Val & Hendu). The signature call is Niehaus's; "MY oh MY, that ball is Belted DEEP,fly away."
A walk. my kingdom for a walk. Percy can be charitable at times.
Donnelly and Hasegawa made it last year. Don't see why K-Rod couldn't this year.
Here comes Percy
Here comes Percy
Donkit-in an absolute heartbeat. Those are two of the best young players in the game. Kotchman's supposed to be a stud and shiftyRod already is a stud.
I'd say that McPherson, K-rod, and Mathis are probably near untouchable. Santana & Jenks probably could be had.
Nothing seems to be wrong with Percival; he's bringing it at 97.
You gotta love Sparky. What a player.
You gotta love Sparky. What a player.
Menechino sets the table for the big boys. Great finish.
Percival, my best recollections of himis in a Vancouver Canadians uniform pitcing in the PCL Championship series the deason before he made the bigs. He was just automatic. I used to sit behind homeplate, row three. The pop of the catachers mit was just about deafening and knocked fibres outta the horsehide.
But ofcourse all of that was when he was much younger and not about to blow this save.
But ofcourse all of that was when he was much younger and not about to blow this save.
Yeah Menechino! Come on big boys! Drive 'em both home.
Yeah!!! My feed must be pretty delayed. I don't care! Hell yeah!
Once AGAIN no-one covers home plate!
Molina: "I was having a burrito. Did I miss anything?"
Prediction: IBB to Delgado, BB to Zaun for GWRBI.
Molina: "I was having a burrito. Did I miss anything?"
Prediction: IBB to Delgado, BB to Zaun for GWRBI.
The centerfielder's playing really shallow in this situation.
Percival mus'nt of had his triple expresso before warming tonite.
And isn't nice to beat another team while trailing in the 9th?
Man it feels good to be on the other side of a blown save!
Wooooooooo!!
Wooooooooo!!
Yee-hoo!
Not quite "Going, going, ZAUN!" but it works!
Not quite "Going, going, ZAUN!" but it works!
And isn't nice to beat another team while trailing in the 9th?
It sure helps that Anaheim uses their, what?, 4th best reliever as their closer.
It sure helps that Anaheim uses their, what?, 4th best reliever as their closer.
Hey, they got a runner home from 3rd to win a game!
(season turning point...?)
(season turning point...?)
Huge wins. Off Rodriguez and Percival in consecutive games! Confidence baby!
Off Rodriguez and Percival in consecutive games!
Not to be anal doctor, but Percival did not pitch Monday. Scioscia decided he was better off with Weber.
Not to be anal doctor, but Percival did not pitch Monday. Scioscia decided he was better off with Weber.
Oops, sorry Dr. Zarco. I now understand what you meant. Never mind what I said (good advice in general!).
Zaun - "I'm starting to become a real big fan of this astroturf"
Hahaha.
Hahaha.
That's one of the downsides of an $8 million/year Proven Closer -- you have to keep using him, even past his prime.
J.P. will be on The FAN with Wilner in a few minutes, if anyone wants to give them a call at 416-870-0590 in the GTA or 1-888-666-0590 anywhere else.
J.P. will be on The FAN with Wilner in a few minutes, if anyone wants to give them a call at 416-870-0590 in the GTA or 1-888-666-0590 anywhere else.
Sorry, I know Chuck, I should have been more specific. Rodriguez blew the save in the 8th on Monday, I just meant they got runs off both. A minute or two ago I posted my chuckle at your "I was having a burrito, did I miss anything?" It didn't post though, rather odd. Still funny though.
Zaun looked like he was choking back tears in that post game. He must be pretty happy right now.
OUT OF THE BLUE Question
Did the jays show any interest in Elarton? I know the tribe picked him up. What was his salary?
Did the jays show any interest in Elarton? I know the tribe picked him up. What was his salary?
What was his salary?
Wasn't he released? He'd only have to be paid the major league minimum (and the pro-rated portion at that), with Colorado picking up the rest.
Wasn't he released? He'd only have to be paid the major league minimum (and the pro-rated portion at that), with Colorado picking up the rest.
Dr. Zarco: I was watching the Red Sox / A's game on Extra Innings when that Crosby play was on. Routine slowish groundball, he rushes a bit trying to pick it up to go to second for the easy force. The bobble made him kind of change his mind and then he rushed a throw to first and just threw it away past the dugout near the tarp I think and no one could get to it. I'm sure it'll be on the highlights tonight.
Anyway, woohoo!
Anyway, woohoo!
Thanks Chuck for the clarification. I thought there was a hook for a portion of his contract.
Cat's on the DL, and so is Cash. Estalella is coming up to platoon with Zaun, Nakamura is out, Chulk is in, and oh, yeah -- Alexis Rios is on his way to Toronto.
From JP on the radio:
Catalanotto and Cash go on the DL. Myers to the 60-day DL. Nakamura sent down.
Rios, Chulk and Estalella up.
Catalanotto and Cash go on the DL. Myers to the 60-day DL. Nakamura sent down.
Rios, Chulk and Estalella up.
How 'bout that setup man Terry Adams!
3 solid innings of work helped pull out these 2 wins against Anaheim. I'm glad the Jays didn't release him when I wanted them to last weekend.
Any news on Speier? I'd presume Nakamura is looking like the candidate to create a roster spot when Speier is healthy.
3 solid innings of work helped pull out these 2 wins against Anaheim. I'm glad the Jays didn't release him when I wanted them to last weekend.
Any news on Speier? I'd presume Nakamura is looking like the candidate to create a roster spot when Speier is healthy.
WOOOO! Y'all in BBFL-Alomar, fughedabowdit... I picked up Rios about 2.3 seconds after J.P. made the announcement.
Wow... Rios is up? *gasp*!
These are some wild moves. Cash and Cat to the DL, Cat isn't a surprise, but Cash surprises me. Now, Crash goes to the 60 which sucks and our catchers are Zaun and Estalela. That, certainly, is a surprise. Nakamura is gone, after looking so promising and, well, as far as Rios is concerned I'm speechless. I am without speech.
These are some wild moves. Cash and Cat to the DL, Cat isn't a surprise, but Cash surprises me. Now, Crash goes to the 60 which sucks and our catchers are Zaun and Estalela. That, certainly, is a surprise. Nakamura is gone, after looking so promising and, well, as far as Rios is concerned I'm speechless. I am without speech.
Cash first hurt his rib cage on a play at the plate, and has aggravated it "doing a couple of things" since then. They're watching Hudson closely for the next couple of days; he might also have to go on the DL if he doesn't improve.
"We live in an age when there's so much information out there, and it can be created in so many different ways." -- J.P. on the Delgado trade rumour, which he called "an unfortunate incident."
"We live in an age when there's so much information out there, and it can be created in so many different ways." -- J.P. on the Delgado trade rumour, which he called "an unfortunate incident."
From Mike Wilner and JP: it sounds like the whole rumour of Delgado going to the Dodgers originated when Wilner jokingly commented to JP, who was on his cell phone in the 6th inning on Monday, that Delgado was being traded to LA. Some ears overheard it and whoosh, it was internet bound.
Interesting bringing up Rios. I thought maybe they'd call up Marvin Benard.
Chuck, I think you misunderstood. The rumour did come from L.A., and had been swirling for several minutes before Mike had a chance to jokingly ask about it.
Just for the record, I drafted Rios in the Leftovers and have held on to him this whole time despite a rash of injuries (Glaus, Hudson, Erstad, Snow). I'm excited as hell to watch him play tomorrow!!! JP said he's gonna play against Washburn tomorrow.
"I haven't heard that one." -- J.P., with a laugh, on the Pedro Astacio rumour.
Ricciardi just said they'd have to open up a spot on the 40 man to bring up Benard.
Oops, I guess I'm incapable of listening and typing at the same time. I won't even dare adding in chewing gum!
Thanks for the clarification.
Thanks for the clarification.
Some guy asking about McGowan, if he's had his operation...god, get the internet, I'd much rather hear from people who don't treat JP as a news source.
"I haven't heard that one." -- J.P., with a laugh, on the Pedro Astacio rumour.
Coach, perhaps Wilner got that from Da Box?
Thanks for the update on the Crosby play, Mark.
Coach, perhaps Wilner got that from Da Box?
Thanks for the update on the Crosby play, Mark.
Just got home. Rios was called up. Why?!? The guy hits 259/292/373 in AAA and he's ready for the bigs?
Coach, perhaps Wilner got that from Da Box?
I was the one who posted the rumour this morning, which I heard from Marty York (and warned listeners that I did).
I was the one who posted the rumour this morning, which I heard from Marty York (and warned listeners that I did).
Just got home. Rios was called up. Why?!?
Sounds like you'll have to wait for the Coles Notes of the first 146 posts!
Sounds like you'll have to wait for the Coles Notes of the first 146 posts!
Mike-JP brought up the fact that Rios did really well at AA last year, over the winter and then this spring, basically pulling the old NCAA lingo of it was his "body of work."
What would this mean for Rios' arbitration status? Will bringing him up now avoid possible Super Two status? It's pretty close to June so I would assume he was safe in that respect otherwise they would have just waited.
It's nice to see Chulk get a chance. I like Mike a lot but when he's not very fine with his command his stuff just doesn't give him a chance to not get beat up.
It's nice to see Chulk get a chance. I like Mike a lot but when he's not very fine with his command his stuff just doesn't give him a chance to not get beat up.
Do they screen calls?? :)
Yes they do, Chris B., and if you let the producer know you're a Bauxite, your chances of getting on the air improve a great deal.
Yes they do, Chris B., and if you let the producer know you're a Bauxite, your chances of getting on the air improve a great deal.
Why?!?
Ricciardi acknowledged Rios is not burning it up in AAA, but they have to bring him up sooner or later, so they may as well see what he can do now.
Ricciardi acknowledged Rios is not burning it up in AAA, but they have to bring him up sooner or later, so they may as well see what he can do now.
So Pond is the odd man out or is this a temporary fillin?
Off-topic: Raul Mondesi could be back to work soon.
Ricciardi acknowledged Rios is not burning it up in AAA, but they have to bring him up sooner or later, so they may as well see what he can do now.
I say it's a lousy move, which no doubt means he'll hit .400.
Admit it, if Gord Ash made this move, we'd all be screaming bloody murder right now.
I say it's a lousy move, which no doubt means he'll hit .400.
Admit it, if Gord Ash made this move, we'd all be screaming bloody murder right now.
Will bringing (Rios) up now avoid possible Super Two status?
If they send him back down when Cat returns, then call him up again in July, it shouldn't be a problem. If he becomes an instant sensation and stays up all year, he'll probably be a Super Two.
If they send him back down when Cat returns, then call him up again in July, it shouldn't be a problem. If he becomes an instant sensation and stays up all year, he'll probably be a Super Two.
"I say it's a lousy move, which no doubt means he'll hit .400."
It's not a lousy move it's a desperate one. The Jays are dying for some sort of punch offensively as Delgado, Phelps are struggling and Hinske doesn't look like a big league hitter anymore.
"Admit it, if Gord Ash made this move, we'd all be screaming bloody murder right now."
Naw, we'd just say he's portly.
It's not a lousy move it's a desperate one. The Jays are dying for some sort of punch offensively as Delgado, Phelps are struggling and Hinske doesn't look like a big league hitter anymore.
"Admit it, if Gord Ash made this move, we'd all be screaming bloody murder right now."
Naw, we'd just say he's portly.
If one of you guys gets on can you ask about the closer situation now with Chulk up now.
This is in no reference to any of the above posts, but I would just like to send my 'kudos' to Sparky for laying down that bunt. It will go overshadowed in the way the Jays won, but you can't start a fire without a SPARK.
Anybody have any questions for JP? nows your chance.
Admit it, if Gord Ash made this move, we'd all be screaming bloody murder right now.
I'm not admitting that. Who's to say that Rios hasn't just been in a slump to start the season? Is there a way to prove to what degree his struggles have been due to the stiffer competition? As long as it doesn't affect his arbitration status, I have no problem with this move. Rios is a better outfield option than Pond or Berg against lefties.
I'm not admitting that. Who's to say that Rios hasn't just been in a slump to start the season? Is there a way to prove to what degree his struggles have been due to the stiffer competition? As long as it doesn't affect his arbitration status, I have no problem with this move. Rios is a better outfield option than Pond or Berg against lefties.
If somebody gave me a wager at the beginning of the year, to see who I would have chose as the first (out of the young 'uns to) get the call to the bigs it would have been Gross. So much for my thought-process. I really don't have an opinion on the Rios call up. I guess we'll have to watch and see how he reacts.
I was surprised to hear J.P. in favour of expanded playoffs. We don't disagree on many things, but that's one. I'm an old traditionalist who thinks the integrity of the regular season should come first, which is the main reason I hate interleague play.
Despite a call from one of his old teammates endorsing him, Wilner's been ruled out as an emergency catcher. What a relief!
Despite a call from one of his old teammates endorsing him, Wilner's been ruled out as an emergency catcher. What a relief!
Chulk has been solid, JP commented on Towers impressing in syracuse and how he was insurance.
I'm surprised that JP said he'd be for moving the Jays out of the AL East (or expanding the playoffs). I remember when he got the job Godfrey expressed an interest in moving the Jays to the AL Central while Ricciardi seemed against the idea. I guess the realities of this division have hit home.
I'm getting sick of some of these callers. They claim to be knowledgeable because they've paid attention since '77 and then proceed to ask the most inane questions imaginable.
As long as it doesn't affect his arbitration status, I have no problem with this move.
Who says it won't? If he hits, he'll stay and likely be a Super 2. If he doesn't hit at all, he'll be sent down. But if he doesn't hit, he doesn't help the Jays.
Who says it won't? If he hits, he'll stay and likely be a Super 2. If he doesn't hit at all, he'll be sent down. But if he doesn't hit, he doesn't help the Jays.
He is asked about the Orlando Hudson situation, and the reason behind drafting two shortstops in a row. JP said, he had no intention of trading Orlando, and that he took two shortstops cause the have the althletic ability to move to another postion.
Well, some of these callers think "paid attention since '77" means "watched the first game in 1977, then didn't pay attention until 1992 and 1993, then left the team after the strike, then decided to call in with an asinine question in 2004."
I would guess RF for Rios, with Pond/Johnson in left.
Is there anyway to justify a move to the Central Division?
And who would move out of the Central, and would they want to move? (Either to the East or to the West)
And who would move out of the Central, and would they want to move? (Either to the East or to the West)
Which OF position will Rios be playing?
Right field. With Reed in left that's an upgrade in both corners, and a very solid defensive outfield.
Right field. With Reed in left that's an upgrade in both corners, and a very solid defensive outfield.
with Pond/Johnson in left
I think Johnson has escaped the platoon role for a while, at least until Catalotto comes back.
I think Johnson has escaped the platoon role for a while, at least until Catalotto comes back.
OK, I am far far from an expert when it comes to baseball but even I would never make the quantum leap of logic required by that last caller. Taking JP to task because he drafted two shortstops back-to-back and "the only conclusion I can come to" (says the caller) is that it means Orlando Hudson must be on the trading block. Say what?
Well, some of these callers think "paid attention since '77" means "watched the first game in 1977, then didn't pay attention until 1992 and 1993, then left the team after the strike, then decided to call in with an asinine question in 2004."
Rob, you sound like Lemony Snicket.
Rob, you sound like Lemony Snicket.
Gee...thanks. Now I must Google "Lemony Snicket" so I understand. :)
Taking JP to task because he drafted two shortstops back-to-back and "the only conclusion I can come to" (says the caller) is that it means Orlando Hudson must be on the trading block. Say what?
The caller's rationale was that one of the SS would eventually move to 2B.
What Ricciardi didn't say, but I do believe that he believes, is that there's nothing to say that both young shortstops will even become useful major leaguers. Or even that one will. Sure, you hope your early draft picks all grow up to be MLB worthy, but there's absolutely no guarantee.
Sometimes you draft two shortstops since there just happen to be two good ones available, and you get to hedge your bets at a weak position in the organization and you get to perhaps develop a trade chit for down the road.
The caller's rationale was that one of the SS would eventually move to 2B.
What Ricciardi didn't say, but I do believe that he believes, is that there's nothing to say that both young shortstops will even become useful major leaguers. Or even that one will. Sure, you hope your early draft picks all grow up to be MLB worthy, but there's absolutely no guarantee.
Sometimes you draft two shortstops since there just happen to be two good ones available, and you get to hedge your bets at a weak position in the organization and you get to perhaps develop a trade chit for down the road.
Gee...thanks. Now I must Google "Lemony Snicket" so I understand. :)
It helps having a ten year-old.
It helps having a ten year-old.
with Pond/Johnson in left
I think (I hope, after tonight) Pond is back to pinch-hitting and very occasional DH starts. I would sit Phelps against Wakefield and a few other selected RHP who have given him the most trouble. Unless Simon's bat catches fire very soon, he's a likely candidate for demotion when Cat's ready. That's assuming Rios is as good as advertised.
This has been a great day for baseball. My high school team romped, the Jays made another thrilling comeback, and the most exciting prospect in the system has been promoted. Oh, and guess who picked up Tommy Phelps off waivers in the BBFL for his seven innings of 1-hitter? The crafty old Walrus.
I think (I hope, after tonight) Pond is back to pinch-hitting and very occasional DH starts. I would sit Phelps against Wakefield and a few other selected RHP who have given him the most trouble. Unless Simon's bat catches fire very soon, he's a likely candidate for demotion when Cat's ready. That's assuming Rios is as good as advertised.
This has been a great day for baseball. My high school team romped, the Jays made another thrilling comeback, and the most exciting prospect in the system has been promoted. Oh, and guess who picked up Tommy Phelps off waivers in the BBFL for his seven innings of 1-hitter? The crafty old Walrus.
The crafty old Walrus.
I thought the Walrus was Paul.
I thought the Walrus was Paul.
Now I must Google "Lemony Snicket" so I understand.
A Series of Unfortunate Events #37: The Concrete Convertible
A Series of Unfortunate Events #37: The Concrete Convertible
Around the league (though I may just be talking to myself at this point of the evening!)...
Sturtze gave up two hits to allow 3 inherited runners to score, letting Baltimore pull to within 1 run of the Yankees in the 7th inning.
Goo-goo-ga-joob.
Sturtze gave up two hits to allow 3 inherited runners to score, letting Baltimore pull to within 1 run of the Yankees in the 7th inning.
Goo-goo-ga-joob.
Yes it was me featured on the call JP show. Thanks to Rob the producer for moving me up the list. Thanks for the kind words Coach.
JP said that there was no specific reason for Rios to struggle in early May, he just had bad luck. Now that he is in the bigs JP probably would not want to say the pitchers had found a hole in his swing, not that I know they did.
A poster saw Rios at the weekend and said that he was hitting the ball hard, and that he had a gun in RF. JP said the defense would be better with Rios.
JP said that with Gabe Gross they are DH'ing him to save the season. He will likely need some elbow surgery towards the end of the year.
JP said DJ Hanson is throwing in Florida. Look for him to move to Dunedin in mid June (my comment).
Also Justin Maureau is throwing in Florida but not well per JP.
JP said that there was no specific reason for Rios to struggle in early May, he just had bad luck. Now that he is in the bigs JP probably would not want to say the pitchers had found a hole in his swing, not that I know they did.
A poster saw Rios at the weekend and said that he was hitting the ball hard, and that he had a gun in RF. JP said the defense would be better with Rios.
JP said that with Gabe Gross they are DH'ing him to save the season. He will likely need some elbow surgery towards the end of the year.
JP said DJ Hanson is throwing in Florida. Look for him to move to Dunedin in mid June (my comment).
Also Justin Maureau is throwing in Florida but not well per JP.
I was surprised to hear J.P. in favour of expanded playoffs. We don't disagree on many things, but that's one. I'm an old traditionalist who thinks the integrity of the regular season should come first, which is the main reason I hate interleague play.
J.P. didn't say what sort of playoff expansion, but what do you think of the idea of one extra wild card in each league, with a one-game sudden death between the two wild cards? I think it's brilliant because it accomplishes the goal of more teams playing 'meaningful' games in September, but also gets us back to where winning your division is really important.
Who says it won't? If he hits, he'll stay and likely be a Super 2. If he doesn't hit at all, he'll be sent down. But if he doesn't hit, he doesn't help the Jays.
Well, J.P. didn't specifically say it won't, but if he makes this move I'm confident that he's confident it won't. That's good enough for me.
And if Rios doesn't hit, he does help the Jays. First, the standard is real low: Dave Berg. Second, as Coach points out, his prescence improves the defence in both outfield corners.
J.P. didn't say what sort of playoff expansion, but what do you think of the idea of one extra wild card in each league, with a one-game sudden death between the two wild cards? I think it's brilliant because it accomplishes the goal of more teams playing 'meaningful' games in September, but also gets us back to where winning your division is really important.
Who says it won't? If he hits, he'll stay and likely be a Super 2. If he doesn't hit at all, he'll be sent down. But if he doesn't hit, he doesn't help the Jays.
Well, J.P. didn't specifically say it won't, but if he makes this move I'm confident that he's confident it won't. That's good enough for me.
And if Rios doesn't hit, he does help the Jays. First, the standard is real low: Dave Berg. Second, as Coach points out, his prescence improves the defence in both outfield corners.
A Series of Unfortunate Events #37: The Concrete Convertible
That's it, time to go to Chapters to buy the book so I can understand what you guys are talking about. I finally wrapped my head around DIPS, now you throw Lemony Snicket at me.
That's it, time to go to Chapters to buy the book so I can understand what you guys are talking about. I finally wrapped my head around DIPS, now you throw Lemony Snicket at me.
Dunedin will be rammed come June, will Perkins ever start? Too bad he didnt comment on perkins, and the upcoming draft.
I guess the realities of this division have hit home.
A lot can change in two years. The Yankees are spending about 50% more now than they were around then. The Red Sox have become big rollers AND got a new general manager with a sound game plan. Baltimore is spending more money and is no longer run by Syd Thrift.
All of a sudden what looked like a good situation to grow in has become a whole lot more difficult. Challenging 90 wins should not be a problem in time. Challenging 100 wins against those odds is going to be tough unless multiple good pitchers develop in the next two or three years.
A lot can change in two years. The Yankees are spending about 50% more now than they were around then. The Red Sox have become big rollers AND got a new general manager with a sound game plan. Baltimore is spending more money and is no longer run by Syd Thrift.
All of a sudden what looked like a good situation to grow in has become a whole lot more difficult. Challenging 90 wins should not be a problem in time. Challenging 100 wins against those odds is going to be tough unless multiple good pitchers develop in the next two or three years.
RE: Rios
To assume that they've just randomly calling up Rios without any regard to service time or long term development is to ignore all that we've seen and heard from JP & Co in their 2+ years. I find that hard to believe.
But maybe that's why I'm in the ZLC.
To assume that they've just randomly calling up Rios without any regard to service time or long term development is to ignore all that we've seen and heard from JP & Co in their 2+ years. I find that hard to believe.
But maybe that's why I'm in the ZLC.
Out here in Halifax, I have made an exciting discovery: The Rally Bongo.
I was sitting in my apartment, watching the game, when I noticed a bongo drum left over from the people who had moved out a few weeks before. Purely on a lark, I decided to (softly) drum on it when the Jays came up to bat, in the hopes that it would inspire them, from half a continent away, to rally against Colon and then Percival. And it worked! What a great comeback. I am now fired up again. And the Bongo may very well become a part of my Jays routine. My roommates will think I'm nuts, but that's okay, because they already think that anyway.
Plus, I can't wait to see how Rios does.
I was sitting in my apartment, watching the game, when I noticed a bongo drum left over from the people who had moved out a few weeks before. Purely on a lark, I decided to (softly) drum on it when the Jays came up to bat, in the hopes that it would inspire them, from half a continent away, to rally against Colon and then Percival. And it worked! What a great comeback. I am now fired up again. And the Bongo may very well become a part of my Jays routine. My roommates will think I'm nuts, but that's okay, because they already think that anyway.
Plus, I can't wait to see how Rios does.
We have a new thread for discussing the roster moves.
As for the game, WHOO-HOO! I listened on the radio as I worked.
As for the game, WHOO-HOO! I listened on the radio as I worked.
More on the Tanyon watch... I was not entirely accurate (qui, moi?) about his outing. The inherited runners he let score gave the Orioles a 9-7 lead. The Yankees have since taken a 12-9 lead and Sturtze stands to "earn" the W.
Meanwhile, on the left coast, Bonds finally got off his ass and has homered in his second straight game. The slacker looks done, though, as far as a .400 season goes.
It's 1998 all over again for the rejuvenated Vinny Castilla. He's now up to 13 HR and 41 RBI. His home/road splits? Home: 379/455/759. Road: 231/291/500.
Meanwhile, on the left coast, Bonds finally got off his ass and has homered in his second straight game. The slacker looks done, though, as far as a .400 season goes.
It's 1998 all over again for the rejuvenated Vinny Castilla. He's now up to 13 HR and 41 RBI. His home/road splits? Home: 379/455/759. Road: 231/291/500.
Another great win for the Jays. With Eckstein and Menechino in the game I could've sworn I was watching The Littlest Groom. Bengie Molina for Closer. Homeruns! Just what a staff needs, two new catchers. Bizarro Tosca sacrifices AGAIN. If Rios sticks, that's quite an OF when Cat comes back. Phelps and Hinske look good in their new surroundings.
I really like the way Hinske threw the ball today. Nothing excited me more than the quick release and accurate throw on a grounder that backed him up.
The kind of thing that's amusing after a win, but not so much after a loss: FOUR jays went 1-4 yet RAISED their batting averages.
Vernon Wells extended his hit streak baby! What's the record...doesn't matter! It's gonne be broken baby, by WELLSSSS
http://www.naturesguard.com
Has anyone heard anything about the pitcher from tiwan they singed in the off-season? I have heard no mention of his progress.
Has anyone heard anything about the pitcher from tiwan they singed in the off-season? I have heard no mention of his progress.
As discussed frequently among the cheer club tonight, I assumed The Hentgen was going to come back into the game in the extra inning with a fake moustache and going by the name Hat Pentgen but Zaun hit a chopper to the midget and we won anyways. We'll just save that little nifty idea for the next game.
Has anyone heard anything about the pitcher from tiwan they singed in the off-season? I have heard no mention of his progress.
No. His name is Chi-Hung Cheng.
He was supposed to start the season in slow-A, but so far he hasn't played for Charleston yet.
He might be working out with the Taiwanese olympic squad -- his contract stipulates he can play for them if he makes the team.
Would have been a great question for JP tonight...maybe next week!
So apparently Terry Adams can pitch in tie games and when the other team has a small lead, but if you give him a three-run lead he blows up. I've got to think he has some sort of psychological issue with being The Closer; he's been fantastic nearly all season when he isn't expected to get a save.
"Is there a way to prove to what degree his struggles have been due to the stiffer competition?"
Yes. You watch each of his PAs, what the pitchers are throwing him, what he's swinging at and how hard he's hitting the ball when he hits it.
The Jays obviously have eye-witness reports of everything Rios does, so they are in a very good position to determine things that 7 weeks of batting stats are hopelessly inadequate for.
Yes. You watch each of his PAs, what the pitchers are throwing him, what he's swinging at and how hard he's hitting the ball when he hits it.
The Jays obviously have eye-witness reports of everything Rios does, so they are in a very good position to determine things that 7 weeks of batting stats are hopelessly inadequate for.
So if you're a "Hentgen for closer" booster (frankly, I think it's ridiculous) do you want him to have a good start, or a bad one?
See, Coach, I think the Hentgen For Closer sign is just a really, really silly sign. I don't think that any of us are seriously pulling for Hentgen to be converted to a closer. Now here's a stat for you: in games where the Hentgen For Closer sign has made an appearance, the Jays are 2-0.
Without the O-Drum, the Cheer Club still managed to get some noise going, especially after new recruit Brent taught GOING! GOING! ZAUN! to the three sections beside us filled with kids from Montréal, who had already joined in the fist-pumping CHARGE with us. They were a great group, loud and up for anything (especially MEN-E-CHIN-O to the tune of LET'S GO BLUE JAYS, which they seemed to think was hilarious). The bottom of the ninth was nearly as loud as Monday's, but without the drum! Today my arm is nearly recovered from Monday's auxiliary drumming, but now my diaphragm hurts. GOING! GOING! ZAUN! is not easy to shout when you do it over and over and over again.
When Sparky crossed the plate to tie it up, the Cheer Club and the Montréalers met up in the aisle for high-fives all around. Man, that felt good.
I'm showing up late to tonight's game, but I have to make a sign for Rios. Suggestions? I was thinking LEXI: WELCOME TO THE SHOW or something simple like that.
See, Coach, I think the Hentgen For Closer sign is just a really, really silly sign. I don't think that any of us are seriously pulling for Hentgen to be converted to a closer. Now here's a stat for you: in games where the Hentgen For Closer sign has made an appearance, the Jays are 2-0.
Without the O-Drum, the Cheer Club still managed to get some noise going, especially after new recruit Brent taught GOING! GOING! ZAUN! to the three sections beside us filled with kids from Montréal, who had already joined in the fist-pumping CHARGE with us. They were a great group, loud and up for anything (especially MEN-E-CHIN-O to the tune of LET'S GO BLUE JAYS, which they seemed to think was hilarious). The bottom of the ninth was nearly as loud as Monday's, but without the drum! Today my arm is nearly recovered from Monday's auxiliary drumming, but now my diaphragm hurts. GOING! GOING! ZAUN! is not easy to shout when you do it over and over and over again.
When Sparky crossed the plate to tie it up, the Cheer Club and the Montréalers met up in the aisle for high-fives all around. Man, that felt good.
I'm showing up late to tonight's game, but I have to make a sign for Rios. Suggestions? I was thinking LEXI: WELCOME TO THE SHOW or something simple like that.
Coach, what highschool do you coach at?
I won't be releasing any secrets if I reveal that Coach is the skipper of the Ursula Franklin Academy Flames.
Mike Moffatt, can I get a Go Flames Go over here?
I won't be releasing any secrets if I reveal that Coach is the skipper of the Ursula Franklin Academy Flames.
Mike Moffatt, can I get a Go Flames Go over here?
what do you think of the idea of one extra wild card in each league, with a one-game sudden death between the two wild cards?
Jonny, I can live with that, as it also has the effect of giving the division winner an edge in setting up their rotation against the wild card winner.
in games where the Hentgen For Closer sign has made an appearance, the Jays are 2-0
OK, then. It's strategy, not an actual campaign. I'm 100% in support now.
Jonny, I can live with that, as it also has the effect of giving the division winner an edge in setting up their rotation against the wild card winner.
in games where the Hentgen For Closer sign has made an appearance, the Jays are 2-0
OK, then. It's strategy, not an actual campaign. I'm 100% in support now.
Cat/Sparky-V-Dub-Lexi ... that sounds like a top-notch outfield to me defensively, and a pretty good one offensively (especially if Rios can contribute). Except for the elbow injury, I would have much preferred to see Gross in that spot, but I guess we have another year to wait on Gabe.
NFH-about the sign, didn't we hear awhile back that Rios doesn't like "Lexi" and prefers Alex? Not sure if it was a preference or a dislike. I wouldn't want the youngster to be disappointed by the first sign he saw. Either way, I hope the crowd gives him a good solid ovation.
Good to know, Doc Z, I hadn't heard that.
I need votes --
ALEXIS: WELCOME TO THE SHOW
vs.
ALEXIS: WELCOME TO TORONTO
I need votes --
ALEXIS: WELCOME TO THE SHOW
vs.
ALEXIS: WELCOME TO TORONTO
I dont think that The Hentgen as closer is rediculous, as alot of stats show that it might work, and anything's worth a shot. I would call it more extremly unlikely than rediculous, but yes the sign has become more strategy than campagin at this point, it's 2 and 0. WOO!
I vote for the first one-Alexis: Welcome to the Show
How about, THE RIOS CARNIVAL? CARNIVAL OF RIOS? or some variation on that theme?
No matter what sign is used, I'm sure Alex will feel welcome! Hopefully it spurs him on to a good performance.
No matter what sign is used, I'm sure Alex will feel welcome! Hopefully it spurs him on to a good performance.
I read somewhere that Rios prefers to be known as "Alex" instead of "Alexis". Don't know how he feels about "Lexi".
The word is that Rios definitely prefers Alex to Alexis. I would imagine that that preference extends also over 'Lexi,' but I don't want to put words in his mouth.
http://me.woot.net
Robert, admit it: you're psychic.
Robert, admit it: you're psychic.
At the beginning of spring training, it was announced to the media that henceforth he would be known by, and would prefer to be called, Alex Rios.
ALEX: WELCOME TO THE SHOW it is, then.
I won't be there until 8:30 to unfurl it, but I'll be there.
I won't be there until 8:30 to unfurl it, but I'll be there.
Thanks! It's about 24x80 inches, so he should be able to read it.
NFH: nice. I'm sure Alex will appreciate the gesture. It's hard enough playing the game, but doing so in an unknown (and intimidating) environment must be just as bad.
I dont think that The Hentgen as closer is rediculous, as alot of stats show that it might work, and anything's worth a shot.
Which stats?
Which stats?
These stats:
He's good in his first inning of work: .257/.289/.371
He drops off big-time after 30 pitches:
Pitch 1-15 .259/.259/.370
Pitch 16-30 .250/.316/.313
Pitch 31-45 .200/.273/*.533*
He's good in his first inning of work: .257/.289/.371
He drops off big-time after 30 pitches:
Pitch 1-15 .259/.259/.370
Pitch 16-30 .250/.316/.313
Pitch 31-45 .200/.273/*.533*
Ohhh... dont make me dig them up. We brought them up many times in previous posts, the big one with 413 posts i think has alot of discussion about it. Stuff about how dominating he's been in the first 3 innings of games compared to his after 5 innings. Various good things. Like I said, far fetched? Sure. Rediculous? I wouldn't go that far.
wow, in the time it took me to type out how lazy I am, JBR went and got the stats! You're aces kid! I'll make you junior vice president in the Campaign now!
These stats:
He's good in his first inning of work: .257/.289/.371
He drops off big-time after 30 pitches:
Pitch 1-15 .259/.259/.370
Pitch 16-30 .250/.316/.313
Pitch 31-45 .200/.273/*.533*
And did no one explain to you in that huge thread about the danger of making conclusions based on small sample sizes?
The difference between Hentgen's 200/273/533 line between pitches 31 and 45 and a 167/242/400 line is one home run. If Hentgen would have induced a grounder or a long fly out instead of giving up that home run, his stats start to look pretty fine. If a guy's numbers go from looking really great to really bad or vice versa based on the outcome of one pitch, you've got a small sample size on your hand, my friend. (As well, you're making conclusions based only on positive results after a handful of batters faced. You're ignoring the negative results in those same innings...he's only struck out 3 of the 37 batters he's faced in his first inning. If he did that over a full year, it would be an awful performance.) It's not to say that Hentgen hasn't been better this year the first time through the order...he has. We just shouldn't make conclusions based on small samples alone.
Hentgen would make a horrible closer. Horrible. He gives up way too many home runs (1.35HR/9IP since 1999) to rely on in a close game. Also, a closer needs to have a strikeout pitch in his arsenal to shut down rallies and stop the opposition from moving runners into scoring position. Hentgen barely strikes out 5 batters for every 9IP.
He does have the mustache. I'll give you that. But that's all...
He's good in his first inning of work: .257/.289/.371
He drops off big-time after 30 pitches:
Pitch 1-15 .259/.259/.370
Pitch 16-30 .250/.316/.313
Pitch 31-45 .200/.273/*.533*
And did no one explain to you in that huge thread about the danger of making conclusions based on small sample sizes?
The difference between Hentgen's 200/273/533 line between pitches 31 and 45 and a 167/242/400 line is one home run. If Hentgen would have induced a grounder or a long fly out instead of giving up that home run, his stats start to look pretty fine. If a guy's numbers go from looking really great to really bad or vice versa based on the outcome of one pitch, you've got a small sample size on your hand, my friend. (As well, you're making conclusions based only on positive results after a handful of batters faced. You're ignoring the negative results in those same innings...he's only struck out 3 of the 37 batters he's faced in his first inning. If he did that over a full year, it would be an awful performance.) It's not to say that Hentgen hasn't been better this year the first time through the order...he has. We just shouldn't make conclusions based on small samples alone.
Hentgen would make a horrible closer. Horrible. He gives up way too many home runs (1.35HR/9IP since 1999) to rely on in a close game. Also, a closer needs to have a strikeout pitch in his arsenal to shut down rallies and stop the opposition from moving runners into scoring position. Hentgen barely strikes out 5 batters for every 9IP.
He does have the mustache. I'll give you that. But that's all...
Not to defend our craziness too much, but Hentgen might well be able to rediscover some of his lost velocity if he were making short appearances out of the pen.
Yeah, that's a possibility, but he'd need to recover about 8-10mph to get back to where he was before his surgery. Even if he did remarkably regain all of his velocity, and starting pitching like the Hentgen of old, he's still not cut out for success in the closer role. His K-rate has never been great shakes and he doesn't have the control that a guy like Danny Graves has to get by in crucial situations without being able to depend on a punch out...not that Graves is even great in the role. That isn't to say a closer needs to satisfy a formula and be a certain kind of pitcher, but I don't see how even classic Hentgen would be a better or more obvious choice over Adams or Speier.
I understand that the sign isn't even meant to be serious (or at least, most of you feel that way). I think it's pretty fun, actually. I just don't want anyone fooling themselves into thinking it's any more than that and isn't a ridiculous idea.
I understand that the sign isn't even meant to be serious (or at least, most of you feel that way). I think it's pretty fun, actually. I just don't want anyone fooling themselves into thinking it's any more than that and isn't a ridiculous idea.
I still havent seen any argument that he is not worth a shot at closing and has the potential to succed even if its not completley likely, there is signs that it could work. It is also not a ridiculous idea. A rediculous idea is something like a Muggsy Boges for closer campagin. This campagin, while unlikely to happen, and has a good chance of not even working if he was given a shot is certianly not "ridiculous".