One I gleaned off yesterday's game report:

#1785103 Posted 05/16/2004 11:28 PM by Jacko:

Heavy handed security is right.

I was sitting near the Jays bullpen today, and there were some very loud, insistent fans yelling "let's go catalanatto" until he acknowledged them. Inspired, they quickly worked their way through Vernon, Reed, and Hinske. Hilarious stuff. And then they got told to shut up by security. What a bunch of wet blankets. Apparently fun is illegal in the Dome.

The Jays and the SkyDome are separate organizations, which might be a factor. The Jays want their fans to make noise and root for the team, while the SkyDome wants patrons to be quiet and not "cause trouble". (Presumably, the security staff that are on duty at Jays games are the same ones that are on duty for rock concerts and whatever else goes on at the Dome. They probably use the same security policies for all events.)

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the SkyDome people don't like the Jays organization very much. Weren't they suing one another at some point, or something like that? Can somebody fill me in?

I think most of the time, what you are seeing are individual, overzealous security people, not a Dome policy. One game last year we actually had an usher wander through our section of the 500 level and demand to see everyone's tickets and insist that we all sit in the correct seats. We were not off to the side or out of the sold-tickets zone (they only sell the middle of the upper deck, to cut down on the number of ushers and security people and cleanup needed, since the place doesn't come close to selling out), but were actually in 524, dead behind the plate.

Understand that the 500 level is pretty much wild in terms of seating once you get out of the first three or four rows -- you buy a ticket and you sit with your friends and you don't worry about 524A vs. 524B or seat 3 vs. seat 4. If the Dome were much busier, this wouldn't be the case. But to have a guy come along and say "You need to sit two rows in front of where you are now and kick out that family of six" is ridiculous when we have 18,000 people in a 52,000 seat stadium.

I never saw that usher again in the 66 games I attended last year, so I'm guessing that our complaints about him worked.

As to noise-making, I've never been warned or threatened, but I'm almost always in the upper deck. One time I was asked to remove my sign, but I knew I would be (it was HEY PHIL: EJECT THIS for our buddy Phil Cuzzi).

103 with the drum was an experiment, and we knew it might not work out. It's too bad, but obviously more than a few people in that section complained. The great news is that the drum seems to be very, very welcome up in 518. I've had a bunch of e-mails thanking us for making noise and urging us to keep it up.

I am very appreciative of the work of a couple of Jays staffers on getting the drum into the game and keeping it in there. I'd give them shout-outs by name, but I don't know that they'd want their names up here. But thanks a ton, guys.

Ultimately, being shushed by an usher has to come from complaints by other paying fans. Our "enemy", so to speak, is not the Dome staff or the Jays brass, but that guy talking on his cell phone and asking us to keep it down because he can't hear how the overseas markets are performing. He is the guy we have to turn around.

Thankfully, that guy doesn't sit up in 518 very often.

I know it's a lot to ask, but I would like every one of us to post specific comments on instances they have seen or been involved in, over this season and last season, where stadium personnel have tried to silence the fans. (Feel free to cut and paste from other threads). Whether it be the removal of the O-Drum to the 500 level, or what have you, as much detail as possible would be appreciated. My aim is to compile all this information and bring it to the attention of the team, of SkyDome management, and of the media.


I think the moving of the O-Drum was totally understandable. The 100/200 level sections have very low concrete ceilings, and based on how loud the drum was in 518 on Saturday, it might have been painfully loud in a more enclosed area.

The thing I can't stand is the "shushing" of obnoxious (and usually entertaining) fans making noise on their own. Unless someone is cursing up a storm, there's no good reason to quiet them down. It's not like this is tennis or golf.

Dave, I'm not aware of any lawsuits between Skydome and the Blue Jays, but it is true that everything has not always been copacetic between the two organizations, as for instance, in the whole stadium naming rights issue.

As far as I can remember, when Rogers bought the Jays he wanted to buy the Sky Dome as well. The corporation that owns the Sky Dome knew that they were the only game in town and wanted a lot of money for the stadium. No deal was ever reached and the fall out for the Jays was;

1) No new turf, as the corporation isn't interested in upgrading.
2) No control over lease rates.
3) No control over concessions.

I don't think that there were any lawsuits but there is a lot of bad blood as the Jays would be better off owning the stadium.

The thing I can't stand is the "shushing" of obnoxious (and usually entertaining) fans making noise on their own. Unless someone is cursing up a storm, there's no good reason to quiet them down. It's not like this is tennis or golf.

I was at yesterday's game sitting in section 129, about halfway up. My friends and I were sitting directly in front of 4 boys who I would estimate were around 12 years old. Through the whole game, they were yelling for players, cheering good plays, making up funny chants. It was great stuff. My friends and I were so happy to see the 'next' generation of Jays fans getting invloved.
What was the downside, you might ask? Well, the usual skunk-eye stares from everyone else within earshot, the constant badgering by the security staff. These kids were doing nothing more than enjoying the game, and everyone else seemed to make it their mandate to stop them. Sickening.
Needless to say, my usual heckling wasn't embraced by the 'fans' (I use the term loosely) seated in our section.

The Skydome was sold for $80 million? Didn't it cost like a billion bucks?
How much do they want from the Blue Jays to sell it?

A few weeks ago when I was in 120, I let out an earsplitting CHARGE. The first one was greeted with stares. The second one was greeted with snorts and derision. The third one was joined by all of the kids in the section, and the fourth one was joined by a lot of grown-ups.

There's a certain amount of "grown-up" attitude that tells you that having fun by doing these things is wrong. That's why persistence in cheering is required -- don't let that stare make you back down. During the White Sox series we had a bejewelled, suited, very over dressed older lady give us a bunch of dirty looks at the start of the game (including a glare when we booed Esteban's pre-game introduction), but by the end she was shouting charge and doing the slow-clap with the rest of us.

If I were "warned" by an usher, I'd ask under who's authority they were acting. The members of the team want us to cheer. The team brass want us to cheer. If that guy with the cell phone doesn't want us to cheer because he can't hear his phone call, that's just too bad for him.

Put away your phone, buddy, this is a baseball game, not the ballet.

Re-reading GFR's story, I had a brainwave:

Complain about the complainers. Anything they do that annoys you, complain to the ushers, so that the ushers will have to "warn" them, too. Don't sit back and take it.

And if these no-fun "grown-ups" are trying to make the kids stop cheering, loudly berate them for heckling the kids. Make them look like dunces. Remind them that they are at a baseball game.

Or as Carlos puts in the commercial, this is baseball, not ballet.

By the way, anyone who wants to fight back, tonight and tomorrow night are Drum Nights in 518. Can you imagine what a guy who would shush a cheering little kid thinks of a group of screaming fans with a drum?

MAKE THAT GUY CRAZY. JOIN US.

Especially tomorrow, since it's two dollar plus service charge night.

Or as Carlos puts in the commercial, this is baseball, not ballet.

If that's not a call for cheering, I don't know what is. Except maybe Roy, Vernon or Reed's televised post-game comments that talked about how they didn't have home-field advantage because the crowds didn't react like a "normal" home crowd.

http://me.woot.net
I think that all the Cheer Club needs at this juncture is participants; a corollary of this is that the cheer club needs publicity. My recommendations are two-fold:

1. When you're at games, you often hear other folks yelling and cheering. Recruit these folks. The Cheer Club needs people like that to increase its crowd-riling-up tendencies.
2. People need to know that the maniacs banging the drum and screaming 'til they're hoarse are doing it because they love the Jays. Aaron, call in to Mike Wilner and plug the Cheer Club.

I was in section 135 yesterday, and there was one great fan who was ripping up Brian Daubach too the point where daubach had to laugh a few times. This guy also led a few chants of players names and got all the OF to aknowledge "us" and Eric Hinske also. My girlfriend enjoyed the game that much more, becuase he was loud and funny. I can understand silencing people who are just insulting players, especially when they are insulting the the Jays themselves. But when a guy is yelling "Daubach, get your head in the game" and "Damon, your a filthy pig, you're almost as bad as daubach" the latter one Daubach laughed at, then that is pure comedy and a good time for all.

Aaron, call in to Mike Wilner and plug the Cheer Club.

Heh, I am notoriously phone-shy. But I will, once I work up the nerve.

More stories, more stories! I know there are lots, I read a ton of 'em last year when I was trying to get people interested in the Cheer Club -- the number one reason why "it won't work" was that we'd get shushed. Don't make Craig use the search function. ;)

Joe, I think that's a great idea regarding Wilner. I'm sure Mike would like to see a few more rowdy fans at the ballpark, so maybe we can encourage him to spin off a couple rants and plug the Cheer Club.

Speaking of which, Aaron, perhaps you can create a "Cheer Club" sign to show off in 518. You know, something snappy.

No offense to anyone in Toronto and I hope I don't insult anyone by saying this, but growing up in New York I am used to and expect when I go to a baseball game to be with a rowdy crowd. When I am in Toronto I feel like I am at a golf tournament or a tennis match which to me is just wrong.

I find the SkyDome is full of too many elderly people who just sit there and expect everyone around them to do the same. When I go and I cheer on the Jays like a Yankees fan cheers for the Yankees, I get looked at like I am doing something wrong. This isn't the way baseball is supposed to be. The players feed off the energy from the fans and the SkyDome does not provide the Jays with that advantage.

The Cheer Club is a great thing and if it picks up enough steam, it could actually help liven up the Dome and make it an unpleasant place for the visiting team and their fans. We owe that to the Jays players. None of those guys want to play in front a crowd in complete silence.

By security trying to keep the place "quiet" they are killing what little energy there is at the stadium. I don't know what their motives are by doing this but it seems to me to be extremely foolish. It's a real shame to see what's going on at SkyDome these days. I hope the Cheer Club is allowed to continue to make its voice heard, and heard loudly, and I hope more and more poeple continue to join them.

When I am in Toronto I feel like I am at a golf tournament or a tennis match which to me is just wrong.

No offense taken, Mike, I think we all feel the same way you do. That's the why of the Cheer Club.

Do you guys think it would be too self-promoting to make a BLUEJAYSCHEERCLUB.COM banner or something like that? Or maybe just JOIN US? I doubt they'd show a banner with a URL on it on TV.

I haven't had any bad experiences with Jay's staff yet, but I think that is probably because i ONLY sit in the 500s due to my crappy part-time employment. I must confess I am very pleased on a certain level that the O-Drum was booted out of the 100's because it makes my evening that much better to get with the Cheer Club and go bonkers on the drum. On games when the drum wasnt there, I felt oddly silent.

The HAMMER and myself will indeed attempt to make it down to 518 today, hope to see the drum and lots of bauxites there.

And that Daubach joke earlier was gold.

Too self-promoting? It would be *awesome*. Exactly what's needed.

"Speaking of which, Aaron, perhaps you can create a "Cheer Club" sign to show off in 518. You know, something snappy."

The idea is great and anything form of cheering, jeering, heckling, etc. will the make the dome a way better place, and could even inject a real baseball atmosphere in Toronto. However, isn't there a less dorky name for the group/section than the "Cheer Club"? It reminds me a little too much like a glee club...yikes

Heh, that's the point, Jim. It's a really silly name for a group of people who yell at baseball games.

Anyways, the URL is already registered, so I ain't changin' it now. ;)

I think I should start another thread for Cheer Club stuff, because I've totally hijacked Craig's usher stories thread and I feel guilty about it.

I feel Hank's concerns that the URL might work against us in terms of exposure. But something like BLUE JAYS CHEER CLUB or something simple like that might work wonders if we become a familar part of most games with a name people can remember. Like "bleacher creatures", or that guy with the drum at Clevland, a token part of the Dome that adds character to the organization. People could make their way to the dome thinking "hey, I wonder if those Cheer Club guys with the drum will be there tonight"

As far as I can tell, when the staff complained about us on Friday night regarding the drum, it was only a couple of people. They were part of a group, but only one person got up to complain, that I saw, and a second person yelled at us, but they were a couple. It was a real shame because there were a nice set of Boston fans beside us that we had begun to taunt with "Nine-teen Eight-teen" chants, and we could have a good thing going there. I think the main problem withh the 100s and the drum is the fact we need to sit at the back, and thus the overhang creates a lot of echo. It'd be nice to have front row seats in the 100s, but that's unrealistic to ask the Jays to set aside a section to gives us the first few rows. I really liked the "roll-call" at yesterday's game. I know it's stolen from the Bleacher Creatures, but I really think it's a good idea to do, and it'd be great if we could get it done from the 500s.

I've been hushed a few times, and told not to bang nearby seats, which is quite common at the Expos games. They also ask you to be really "family-friendly" with chants. I understand that to some degree, but again its not something you'd ever see in Yankee Stadium or at a soccer match. Also, they carry it too far when they rule out words like "Sucks."

"But something like BLUE JAYS CHEER CLUB or something simple like that might work wonders if we become a familar part of most games with a name people can remember. Like "bleacher creatures", or that guy with the drum at Clevland, a token part of the Dome that adds character to the organization."

I like the group being named the "Domers" or the double entendre "Pack of Domers"

in a weird reversal, I will post about "annoying noise" just to maintain a perspective.

One game I went to (in about 1992) I sat in section 510, 4 rows ahead of this group of 3 guys,.. they were loud yea... but I mean LOUD and ALL THE TIME...

HEY! LET'S HAVE A BEER, DO YOU HAVE $5. LOOK WHO IS WARMING UP IN THE PEN, ITS JIM ACKER, WHAT AN ACKER, HE'S AN ACKER, YOU'RE AN ACKER, ... NICE CATCH, I COULD HAVE DONE THAT, NO WAY LOSER, I'M NOT A LOSER YOU ARE A LOSER, OH YEAH, YOU'RE AN ACKER...

I honestly felt I could feel the force of the words pounding on my head... by the fifth inning, ALL the seats between us and them were empty and all the seats in my row and two rows ahead were empty....

So I checked with Security on the way out, you see, they NEVER swore... but Security says if someone is obnoxious enough you can get them tossed even if they don't swear..

SO get this, I remember it was 1992 or 3 because the game that had the 4 millionth person at it, I was there and these 3 were right behind me again... what are the odds?

so I stood up, with my 6'4" buddy beside me and told them just what I thought of them, what I knew about getting them tossed and told them to "enjoy the game but give me an F-ing break" to the applause of the whole section (the game hadn't even started yet)

Anyway, they tried to torment me with golf whispers and managed to make themselves look like fools, but they backed off too... I think by the end of the night they were acting like everyday regular people, cheering for batters and good plays... but not giving us all migraines...

so.. that is the OTHER side of cheering.. it CAN be too much...

By the way, I was a member of the Labbatt's Bleacher Creature Band, we have a band of 6 musicians and 6 cheerleaders and we took over setion 508 on many Saturdays from June 1989 to Sept 1992

what a blast

Labbatts used to give out 1000-1600 tickets to bars and bus people in, and give everyone matching shirts, so we all knew we were a group... what fun!.. I was the snare drummer..

and all the time we were there, only two people complained.. the first one was Cito Gaston he said "don't play during the game, just the breaks" and some angry guy that thought he was getting a free ticket to a game from a bar, but that he'd be seated in the family section or something

Daryn

http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00001789.shtml
OK, I made a separate Cheer Club strategy and discussion thread so we can stop overrunning Craig's thread here. COMN.

I was in section 135 yesterday, and there was one great fan who was ripping up Brian Daubach too the point where daubach had to laugh a few times. This guy also led a few chants of players names and got all the OF to aknowledge "us" and Eric Hinske also. My girlfriend enjoyed the game that much more, becuase he was loud and funny. I can understand silencing people who are just insulting players, especially when they are insulting the the Jays themselves. But when a guy is yelling "Daubach, get your head in the game" and "Damon, your a filthy pig, you're almost as bad as daubach" the latter one Daubach laughed at, then that is pure comedy and a good time for all.


Dude, you were in the same section as me! There were two distinct groups. The guys at the front who were chanting at Catalanotto (and then Wells, Reed, Hinske, Gomez, Tosca, and Butterfield).

There was also a really loud guy seated further up wearing an Orioles cap. He was hilarious as well. Did you notice he would sometimes have conversations with himself?

"Daubach sucks!"

seconds later...

"I agree, Daubach sucks".

seconds later...

"I concur, Daubach stinks!"

And some of his rants were just plain lengthy:

"Daubach, you are definitely a sub-par major league baseball player."

Anyhow, those guys were anything but irritating. They had the whole section in stiches.

I could hear those guys from over in 129.
I thought it was fantastic.
That is EXACTLY what we need.
I guarantee the reason the Jays players responded so quickly was out of either surprise that our fans were doing something, or appreciation.

Yeah, the Daubach guys were great. The ones I saw and heard were left-centre field, section 200. About 242.

Thankfully, the old people next to me left and I could use their chairs to make noise.

The dome should have designated seniors sections, just like they have designated non-drinking family sections.
Then all the blue-hairs could sit together and bitch and moan without getting in my way of heckling.

It would be easy to sell to them, too: "Sit in peace without those damn kids making noise around you."

Whippersnappers.

Maybe it would be as easy as offering a Senior's Discount when buying a ticket in a specific section.

There was also a really loud guy seated further up wearing an Orioles cap. He was hilarious as well. Did you notice he would sometimes have conversations with himself?

Well, being an Orioles fan will do that to you.

Being a long-distance Blue Jays follower, I find the stories about the polite Toronto fans amusing. I remember one about Earl Weaver: a few Toronto fans got on his case one game and he screamed at them to shut up ... and they did!

If he tried that in Philadelphia the fans wouldv'e come onto the field to kill him. In New York, Boston or Baltimore he would've at least been pelted with food, drink, batteries, etc.

I doubt there are many ushers in other stadiums around baseball who would have the GUTS to "hush" rowdy fans. *Maybe* in Tampa Bay ...

Joe, I think that's a great idea regarding Wilner. I'm sure Mike would like to see a few more rowdy fans at the ballpark, so maybe we can encourage him to spin off a couple rants and plug the Cheer Club.

Consider Mike e-mailed. Whether he does anything with it, I can't say, but I think he'll think it's funny, and he might go along with it.

I certainly hope some reps from the Jays are reading this blog. They could learn a lot.

That's f'd up. That's all I gotta say. Fans should be allowed to cheer as loud as they want as long as it's clean