Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Jays Roundup - Yours for the taking if you follow simple rules

Jays Roundup - Yours for the taking if you follow simple rules

And hey, let's throw the great party
Today for the rest of our lives
The band is just about to get started
So throw the switch
It's rock-n-roll time

That's better. Toronto removed Boston from atop the AL East lead and has now scored more runs than allowed, for what that's worth. Miller, Hentgen and Halladay will duel Lowe, Arroyo and some other guy over the weekend.

Hugs All Around: The Star, via the Canadian Press, sees the "Jays hang Sox out to dry," the Sun's Mike Rutsey says "Blue Jays land first blow in series," the Globe's Larry Millson declares "Hudson hits stride as leadoff man," and MLB.com's Spencer Fordin exclaims "Jays double up Red Sox."

Schadenfreude: For those who revel in the misery of others, may I present game wrapups from the Boston Herald and Boston Globe. "We got our butts kicked," Varitek sez. Mr. Sweetness and Light, the Globe's Dan Shaughnessy, says to "Put this one in [the] circular file." The Herald's Tony Massarotti doesn't think allowing first-inning runs is conducive to winning. Finally, how about a rumour of a three-way trade with Seattle and Kansas City?

The Big O: The virtues of O-Dog as table-setter are extolled by the Star's Mark Zwolinski in "Hudson kickstarts Jays," and the Sun's Steve Buffery in "Husdon Trying to be top dog." Hudson topped the order last night for only the second time in his career and first since 2002. He sports a "career" line of .750/.778/.1.250 from the #1 spot. Small sample size factors may apply.

Sweet and sour: Richard Griffin discusses Miguel Batista's first win. Did you know that Batista's signing cost the Jays any chance of signing a legitimate closer? You do now.

The Cloud In The Silver Lining: More on Dustin McGowan from MLB.com's Spencer Fordin, the Sun's Mike Rutsey, and the Canadian Press. Per JP, in the perfect world McGowan could pitch in the 2005 Arizona Fall League and start fresh in 2006.

Grumpy Old Men: Barry Bonds and Randy Johnson vent. "We're bad, see a movie instead," Johnson sez. Just don't see Van Helsing, or if you do, think about baseball whenever Kate Beckinsale isn't on screen.

Entire League Placed On DL, Season Cancelled: Troy Glaus, Jeff Nelson, Al Leiter, Kerry Wood, Fernando Vina, Billy Wagner, all nursing various owwies.

Update: My apologies to anyone who clicked on the previous Kate Beckinsale link and got, uh, something other than what he was expecting. I tested the link myself prior to posting and didn't get that result. To repent, and in honor of last night's fine performances from O-Dog and Little Cat, I will leave you with a cute picture of two cats and seven dogs.

Posted by Lucas on Friday, May 14 2004 @ 10:28 AM EDT.

Jays Roundup - Yours for the taking if you follow simple rules | 46 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Named For Hank - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#65602) #

I was waiting for the Roundup title to be The Truth About Cats And Dogs.

This morning on the Fan they played some O-Dog comments from last night, where the reporter was trying to praise his effort and Orlando was saying, "No, the team played well," and went on to list a number of good things done by other players.

Now that's a guy you want on your team.

Hey, remember when Hudson was asked why he changed his jersey number to 1 from number 3 this spring? He said, "I'm not prepared to say just yet."

Now I think we know.

I think that Orlando Hudson's striding-to-the-plate music should be Hold On, I'm Coming by Sam and Dave.

_Jordan - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#65603) #

Great roundup, Lucas! Trade rumours are fun, but if Allard Baird can get a rejuvenated and reasonably signable Freddy Garcia for the unsignable Beltran, that would be a coup. And if Bavasi ends up with just Kim, whose velocity is reportedly down several mph, and Damon, who peaked a couple of years ago, in exchange for his 27-year-old ace, then things in Seattle will just get ugly.

Speaking of Van Helsing, which I haven't yet seen, I was flipping channels the other night and came across a hilariously dreadful movie called Dracula 2000. It was pretty much what the title suggested, and less. Poor Christopher Plummer played the aged Van Helsing with a German accent thicker than Colonel Klink's. Assorted throwaway talent included Jennifer Esposito and Jeri Ryan as vampiric temptresses. A complete hoot.

_Christopher - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#65604) #

Orlando was saying, "No, the team played well," and went on to list a number of good things done by other players.

I love it when a guy stands by his team, good or bad. Definitely better than a Adams-esque "I did my job" quote.
It's exciting to see Hudson playing so well. It feels like we've acquired a whole new player.

_Jacko - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#65605) #

Banner idea:

IT'S RAINING CATS AND DOGS!

Mike Green - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#65606) #

Batista's signing cost the Jays a chance to sign a closer? That's a really, really dumb way of looking at things. The Jays had a budget in the off-season and a number of obvious needs, including starting and relief pitching. JP made a number of decisions, some of which were questioned and criticized at the time. The decision to sign Batista at a bargain price was not one of them. He's a fine starter, and the price was right.

Could the Jays have signed Keith Foulke and Batista and filled in the rest of the holes? No. Could the Jays have signed Batista and Arthur Rhodes and filled in the rest of the holes? Probably. But, it doesn't bug me that they didn't. Heck, Rhodes was not a "proven closer", and that's why his price tag was less.

_coliver - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#65607) #

O'Dog deserves this success. He had matured so much over the past two years, both on the field and verbally.

#1 fits him so much better than #3.

_alsiem - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#65608) #

To borrow from Mystery Men.

O-Dawg is number one. All others are number 2 or lower.

_Ryan Day - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:31 AM EDT (#65609) #

Actually, I'm wondering if O-Dog should maybe hit second, behind Cat. He's been showing a lot of pop lately, so it might be handy to have him hitting with runners on base.

Not that it makes a big deal, I'm sure. Just idle speculation.

Mike Green - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#65610) #

Actually, reasonable projections for Hudson, Johnson, Cat and Hinske are all about the same .340-.350 OBP/.430-.450 slug. All have average speed. It'll be a bonus if O-dog emerges from the pack to be a great player, and it makes sense for the Jays to recognize his good offensive performance to date (both in production and in taking pitchers well into the count) by putting him in the leadoff role.

Carlos Delgado doesn't need to hit 50 homers. His usual .280/.410/.540 will result in a good long-sequence offence, like we have seen a few times over the last 2 weeks.

_Chuck Van Den C - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#65611) #

Off topic...

WRT the rumoured 3-way trade that Lucas linked to, did you get a load of Bavasi? From the article:

"They don't play offense," he said of his players. "They either don't know how to play offense or they can't.

Well who the hell is responsible for fielding that team?

Aurilia, Spiezio and Ibanez were all guys that Bavasi brought in. All were questionable signings.

Olerud seemed to have fallen off a cliff last season and instead of having a contingency ready in the event of complete collapse, Bavasi shipped off plan B at first base, Colbrunn, for the fungible Quinton McCracken.

Boone, Martinez and Suzuki are all under-performing (no fault of Bavasi's), but given their ages, should be in decline anyway. Come June 9 (Randy Winn's birthday), the team won't have a single starter under 30.

And didn't Bavasi fritter a bunch of cash on Hasegawa, after a totally uncharacteristic non-mediocre season?

I think Bavasi would be better off hiding under his desk than seeking the spotlight.

_Seamer - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#65612) #

I agree with Jordan. Allard Baird should be Over the Neptune if he can up a Mesh Gear Fox like Garcia for Beltran in his walk year.

_Seamer - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#65613) #

I agree with Jordan. Allard Baird should be Over the Neptune if he can pick up a Mesh Gear Fox like Garcia for Beltran in his walk year.

_NDG - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#65614) #

How does it work to get into section 518? Do you have to buy tickets for that section or can you get in even if your ticket is in another section?

I want to go to the game Sunday, but may have to work and therefore don't want to commit. Just want to know if I do make it down, will it be easy to come join the Cheer Club.

Also, how do you get those seats with the plush seats (and hottie Vendors) directly behind home plate? I think I'd like to do that at least once, but can't figure out how to get those seats or how much they cost. Are they season ticket only?

_Dr. Zarco - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#65615) #

I think Hudson is suited quite well for the leadoff spot. He usually sees a good deal of pitches (lately he's been doing good things with them, but his approach was the same when he was hitting .190), fouls a slew off, simply NEVER swings at the first pitch, and has a good deal of speed. Put Reed #9 and that's a pretty scrappy 9-1-2 with Cat 2. Follow up by the big boys (if big boy #2's bat decided to join the party) and as Mike G says, that's got the making of some big innings. Keep mashin' against the BoSox.

_bird droppings - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#65616) #

Newest Banner...

WHO SAYS A CAT AND A DOG CAN'T GET ALONG?

Named For Hank - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#65617) #

How does it work to get into section 518? Do you have to buy tickets for that section or can you get in even if your ticket is in another section?

Any ticket to the 500 level will let you up there unless you encounter a sticky usher. In 66 games last season, I encountered exactly one sticky usher.

But I usually ask for a ticket in 518 anyways, they're happy to give them to you.

Don't worry, you'll have no problem buying a seat in that section. The big question will be if the drum is there on Sunday. I know I can't attend as I'm in Montreal, and I think Droppings is just bringing the drum tonight and tomorrow.

Also, how do you get those seats with the plush seats (and hottie Vendors) directly behind home plate? I think I'd like to do that at least once, but can't figure out how to get those seats or how much they cost. Are they season ticket only?

They're called In The Action seats. Last year those tickets were $186 each. There are usually a few available, they're awesome, and they come with unlimited food and drink (but not beer), plus ice cream at the seventh inning stretch.

Named For Hank - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#65618) #

Nice, I think Droppings has hit on the perfect Cat and Dog pun banner!

_Christopher - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#65619) #

They're called In The Action seats. Last year those tickets were $186 each. There are usually a few available, they're awesome, and they come with unlimited food and drink (but not beer), plus ice cream at the seventh inning stretch.

I took a day off work a couple of weeks ago and when I checked my e-mail the next day, there was one offering up free tickets to the Action seats for the previous night's game for the first person to make a claim. I would have been so on it. That offer probably won't come up again. Unless I take another day off of course.

_Ryan Lind - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#65620) #

It's a good banner idea, but unfortunately, Faulds used that line last night. If that bothers you. :)

Lucas - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#65621) #

Seamer wins.

Named For Hank - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#65622) #

Mrs. Hank and I had In The Action seats for Roy's 15th win because we had a nice banner and made a lot of noise and Mr. Ryan Greer came along and offered us the GM Driver's Seat seat upgrade.

_Michael N - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#65623) #

Is it just me or did it seem a bit of a waste of Jason Frasor's talents to bring him back in the ninth inning? He's statistically the best Jays' reliever right now and, to my eyes, he seems to really have great composure on the mound. He's clearly not available to pitch tonight, having gone two last night, and a six run lead is not really a highly leveraged situation in which you want to use your most successful reliever. Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Pistol - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#65624) #

I actually liked that Frasor came back for the ninth. I'd rather see one pitcher go 2 innings than 2 relievers go 1 inning. I believe that Nakamura, Ligtenberg and Adams all pitched the day before. If Frasor comes out after 8 you have to use one of those 3 and that almost makes them unavailable for tonight.

_Chuck Van Den C - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 12:48 PM EDT (#65625) #

Is it just me or did it seem a bit of a waste of Jason Frasor's talents to bring him back in the ninth inning?

I think that to anoint Frasor (or Nakamura for that matter) as a top-of-the-foodchain reliever would be premature, regardless of his numbers to this point.

I believe that both Frasor and Nakamura should pitch multiple innings whenever possible, and the lower leverage the better. This will allow them to log the innings they need to gain experience and free up the theoretically more valuable relievers for higher leverage situations.

If Frasor eventually proves ready for an Aqualino-like transition to higher leverage innings, then so be it. But let's not forget that he has all of 15 major league innings under his belt.

On the subject of relievers, are either of Kersher or DLS hurt? They have combined for 15 innings in the team's 35 games. Is there any point in carrying both if Tosca doesn't intend to use his lefties any more than he has? One lefty could carry the "load" alone. An extra position player could help out this roster, particularly a gloveman like Hermansen.

_Mark - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#65626) #

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6875
Anyone else take a look at O-Dog's season projection (COMN) and get just a little giddy? I mean, sure, he's not likely to match the projection but if he did he'd be one of the top 15-20 players in baseball if you add in his usual defense...

_Andrew K - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#65627) #

I will leave you with a cute picture of two cats and seven dogs

Since the Box values statistical accuracy let me just point out that there are, in fact, eight dogs in the picture.

Thank you. Goodnight.

_Keith Talent - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#65628) #

I'm sure Frasor made less than 10 pitches in the last inning... I might be wrong.

If I were Tosca, I can't imagine the next time I'd put either Kershner or Lopez in a game. They got NAILED, especially Kershner.

I'd still like to see Frasor have another shot at closing.

Still thinking about Adams, I'd be pissed if I were Hinske and read what Adams said in the paper. I don't see Hinske on a 4-for-4 night when Adams blows the save saying "I did my job".

Adams: What a loser. He joins Howie Clark and Dave Berg as the least-likeable Jays.

Bill Bavasi is the worst GM I've ever seen.

Named For Hank - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#65629) #

What's unlikeable about Howie, aside from his slump?

He came in and did great for us last year. This year, not so much.

_Cranky Franky - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#65630) #

Could O-Dog's trade value be any higher?

What with our top pitching prospect going down for 2 years and 2 or more backup 2B on our roster...

Lucas - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#65631) #

Since the Box values statistical accuracy let me just point out that there are, in fact, eight dogs in the picture.

I know. But with my prior posting/linking mishaps I was afraid to try correcting it, lest I take down the entire site.

Seven puppies.

_Fawaz K - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#65632) #

What's keeping Hinske in the line-up? Is it because he's the only regular that's a real J.P. guy? Is it that contract they gave him? Or do they really see something there? I mean, if Tosca's so desperate to get Berg in (God knows why) then why isn't he playing 3rd against lefties (he's an infielder as it is) when Hinske's just as left-handed as the Cat but half the hitter?

Pistol - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#65633) #

If I were Tosca, I can't imagine the next time I'd put either Kershner or Lopez in a game. They got NAILED, especially Kershner.

I would hardly consider giving up a single to Manny Ramirez, and retiring the other 2 batters Lopez faced (on easy popups IIRC) getting nailed. Or NAILED for that matter.

I think that to anoint Frasor (or Nakamura for that matter) as a top-of-the-foodchain reliever would be premature, regardless of his numbers to this point.

And with 9 Ks and 6 BBs in 15 innings Frasor isn't exactly blowing hitters away. He just has a really low ERA at this point.

_Fawaz K - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#65634) #

I guess it's not a question of whether Frasor's good enough - the other clowns are just so bad! Their numbers don't bear it out but everyone can see that they're giving up hits in critical situations and blowing games. Frasor's only 2 ER came on a 2B and an IBB that scored off someone else (I can't remember who).

_Keith Talent - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#65635) #

I remember watching one ball game this season, Howie was up and I believe the situation was runners on 2nd and 3rd. Behind in the count Howie squared around to bunt almost in surrender. We needed runs then. He looked like a dog rolling on his back in submission. He just doesn't seem like a Major League guy.

Or maybe I'm just grumpy because he takes The Cat's place in that TV commercial.

_Keith Talent - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#65636) #

It sounds like Randy Johnson wants to be traded:

...[money]'s probably better spent going to the movies than coming to watch the Diamondbacks."

Johnson paused and quickly added: "You got that on tape? . . . Print it. Run with it."

_Keith Talent - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#65637) #

A-Lopez: that's right Pistol, Lopez wasn't hit too badly now I remember.

_Fawaz K - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#65638) #

_Keith Talent - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#65639) #

Delgado for Raphael Soriano!

Named For Hank - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#65640) #

I remember watching one ball game this season, Howie was up and I believe the situation was runners on 2nd and 3rd. Behind in the count Howie squared around to bunt almost in surrender. We needed runs then. He looked like a dog rolling on his back in submission. He just doesn't seem like a Major League guy.

And you think that Howie made the decision to bunt on his own?

Dave Till - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#65641) #

On the subject of relievers, are either of Kersher or DLS hurt? They have combined for 15 innings in the team's 35 games. Is there any point in carrying both if Tosca doesn't intend to use his lefties any more than he has?

Kershner has lost all his innings because (a) none of the Jays' starting pitchers have needed to be yanked after 3 or 4 innings, and (b) Nakamura has been given all of the long man work in games in which the Jays are ahead. Eventually, the Jays will need him - he can pitch several innings at a time, which will be useful if a starter struggles or a game goes 14 innings.

I guess Tosca has lost confidence in DLS. I'm kind of glad, actually - his loss of confidence in his lefties means that he isn't making multiple pitching changes to try to pick up platoon advantages, which I think is a Good Thing.

In my opinion, DLS isn't all that good, but he isn't any worse than Trevor Miller (of course, that's not exactly high praise).

_Cristian - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#65642) #

Am I the only one who thinks that the proposed 3 way trade rumour between KC, Boston, and Seattle wouldn't be in KC's best interest? The way I see it, KC will want high level prospects that will make the league minimum rather than an underachieving SP already into his arbitration years. Beltran is the best player in baseball (my opinion/no flaming please) and Baird should do much better than Freddy Garcia in a trade.

_Keith Talent - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#65643) #

It sure looked like it. There were some frantic hand signals going on afterwards. I think Howie had a panic-striken brain cramp and did it all on his own. Like he suddenly though to surprise the infield but forgetting how many outs there were or something... it was b-a-a-a-a-d...

_Marty331 - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#65644) #

Well done Lucas....love the GBV lyric-dropping...

Lucas - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#65645) #

Well done Lucas....love the GBV lyric-dropping...

Moffatt sets the bar high. I had some Black Flag ready had the Jays lost again last night.

_Jacko - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#65646) #

It does seem idiotic to blame Batista's contract for J.P.'s inability to get a closer, but I do question the contract Beane 2.0 gave to Ligtenberg. He gave him more than comparable relievers were getting and the Jays already have guys that can't get righties out.

Given that Frasor and Nakamura offer more or less the same performance for the major league minimum, it does seem like Ligtenberg is overpaid for a ROOGY.

Question: Why can't a big bodied, hard throwing veteran like Ligtenberg pick up another pitch to use against lefties?

_Lefty - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#65647) #

This is probably a dead thread but I have to wiegh in here and repeat what I said yesterday when someone suggested Frasor as the closer. No way, he is so far so good successful, just like Nakamura. You can loose a game in the sixth inning or the ninth. Right now those two are holding the game togther in the 6th and 7 and passing the torch. Why mess with that. And as has been mentioned by Pistol I think, Frasor has less than 20 innings in the bigs. Why put that pressure on him. Don't mess with his head.

The Jays as I think everyone would agree do not have a closer in the lot of them but they do have a bunch of experienced, savvy veterns. Someone is going to step up to the plate sooner or later. For my money and playing a hunch it will be Ligtenberg sooner or later.

However all that been said I was and still remain in the camp that Rogers should have given JP just a bit more cash and signed either U.U. or Benitez for less than top dollar closer market value.

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