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Carlos Delgado’s contract expires at the end of this season, and opinion is divided on whether the Blue Jays will be able to re-sign him at that time. Whether he stays or goes, however, no one but Carlos, his agent and their immediate families will be saddened by the expiration of that deal, signed as baseball’s turn-of-the-century spending frenzy approached its end. In case you’ve forgotten, the contract paid him $14.8M in 2001, $17.2M in 2002, $17.5M in 2003 and $18.5M in 2004.

Many Toronto fans have since bemoaned this contract, at length. But if you don’t think the Jays got off easy, you haven’t been keeping an eye on the rest of baseball.

Delgado’s deal was for just four years, his prime production period, for the going market value at that time. He was a young, handsome, popular, homegrown player on the verge of superstardom, and he would have made at least that much elsewhere. True, injuries and the general organizational malaise of the late Ash Era hurt his production, but he played every day, contributed what he could and generally reserved his complaints for certain members of the press corps.

Now imagine if Carlos had been signed not for four years, but for ten; not for a maximum of $18.5M , but for millions more per year, every year. Now imagine if he’d suffered health or off-the-field problems that seriously hurt his production, or if he played a key defensive position terribly, or if he became a clubhouse distraction or even a cancer.

Those nightmare scenarios befell several teams over the past few years, the ones who weren’t lucky or smart enough to dodge the bullet that Gord Ash, to his credit, dodged in the winter of 2000. When the free-agent bubble burst a season or two ago, the Blue Jays were in a relatively good position, with Delgado’s contract the only albatross on the books and already half complete. Thanks to the good work of JP Ricciardi in dumping bad contracts held by stalwarts like Raul Mondesi and Alex Gonzalez, Delgado’s deal is the only major one left, and at the end of September, it’s done.

So cheer up, Jays fans: things could have been a lot worse. How much worse? That’s what we’re here to find out.

Today, we’re going to look at five truly ugly contracts and five organizations (well, four really) that, when the millionaire musical chairs game ground to an unexpected halt, were left without seats. We’re going to decide: what is the worst player contract in baseball?

The rules are simple: rank the following five contracts in terms of their heinousness. I’ve suggested a few criteria, but you can choose your own:

· total money payable
· total length of contract
· foreseeability of trouble at time of signing
· irresponsibility of contract in the context of the team’s overall vision

You’re allowed to use 20/20 hindsight if you wish -– the contract wouldn’t have been so bad if such-and-such hadn’t happened -- but part of offering a good contract is being able to envision the reasonable foreseeability of injury, decline, local market conditions and so forth.

Ready? Here are your five candidates, listed alphabetically. Voting will take place on a 10-7-5-3-1 point scale, so remember to rank all five contracts. Votes will be tabulated when I can get around to it. All figures courtesy of the Bluemanc contracts Website; all ages as of July 1, 2004.




1. Mike Hampton, LHP, 31

Eight years, $121 million

2001: $8.0M
2002: $8.5M
2003: $11.0M [ATL $2.0M / FLA $9.0M]
2004: $12.0M [ATL $2.0M / FLA $10.0M]
2005: $12.5M [ATL $1.5M / FLA $11.0M]
2006: $13.5M
2007: $14.5M
2008: $15.0M
2009: Team option $20.0M or $6.0M buyout
(Plus $20.0M signing bonus deferred until end of contract)

The story goes that a prominent sabrmetrician advised Dan O’Dowd that a superior sinkerball pitcher like Hampton would flourish in Coors Field. Half a season into this gigantic contract (the biggest in baseball at the time), O’Dowd and his advisors looked like geniuses: Hampton had a 9-2 record, an ERA in the 2.00s, and was seriously being talked about as a Cy Young candidate. We all know what happened afterwards: utter implosion, as Hampton became the worst starting pitcher in baseball for the next year and a half.

The Rockies did extricate themselves from their disaster, at least partially: they dealt Hampton to the Marlins for two shorter yet also egregious contracts, those belonging to Preston Wilson and Charles Johnson. The Braves then worked a nice piece of chicanery, acquiring Hampton for Tim Spooneybarger and basically half of Hampton’s remaining contract. Hampton was pretty decent for Atlanta last year and will probably remain so for the next few seasons. But the Marlins can’t complain either: they rid themselves of a lot of long-term obligations, picked up superb leadoff man Juan Pierre from the Rox, and got themselves a World Series championship to boot.

Overall, Hampton’s was probably the least painful of the contracts from a purely financial point of view, since the cost was spread out among three teams. But that doesn’t mean the deal was any less awful when it was signed (you gotta love that deferred signing bonus at the end, like the tail of a rattlesnake). And it’s not like this was the only mistake Dan O’Dowd made. Consider …



2. Todd Helton, 1B, 30

Nine years, $141.5 million

2001: $5.0M
2002: $10.6M
2003: $10.6M
2004: $11.6M
2005: $12.6M
2006: $16.6M
2007: $16.6M
2008: $16.6M
2009: $16.6M
2010: $16.6M
2011: $19.1M
2012: Team option $23.0M or $4.6M buyout

Unlike Hampton, no one could question Todd Helton’s credentials before his contract. He was one of the best young hitters in the game, powerful and destructive even away from Coors Field. A near-miss contender for the Triple Crown in 2000, Helton signed this contract before the 2001 campaign, a deal that would keep him a Rockie until he was 38. Could anyone have foreseen the back troubles that would spring up the following year, sapping some of his power and cutting his home run totals from 42 and 49 in ’00 and ’01 to 30 and 33 the last two seasons? Or that the good people of Denver would finally tire of the Rockies’ losing ways and stay away from Coors Field in droves, depriving the franchise of its cash cow’s money flow? Or that the decade-long Mardi Gras of a spending spree that had gripped baseball would come to a crashing halt?

Even with a sore back, Helton still has tremendous value today, and he’s still in the prime of his career. But word has it that the Rockies are shopping his contract with a persistence bordering on desperation, as the franchise seeks to redefine itself as a small-market team. Trouble is, there are very few teams out there willing to take on that kind of money, and they’re not particularly interested in adding a contract that will expire the same year Britney Spears turns 30. Dan O’Dowd succeeded in making Mike Hampton someone else’s problem; he may yet do the same with Helton.



3. Derek Jeter, SS, 30

Ten years, $189 million

2001: $11.0M
2002: $13.0M
2003: $14.0M
2004: $17.0M
2005: $18.0M
2006: $19.0M
2007: $20.0M
2008: $20.0M
2009: $20.0M
2010: $21.0M
(Plus $16.0M signing bonus paid over 8 years)

There’s perceived value, and there’s actual value. The perceived value of Derek Jeter in February 2001 was off the charts. There was some good reason for that: he had just posted 40 HRs and 40 steals over the previous two seasons combined, batting .349 and .339 with excellent plate discipline in those campaigns. But there was a lot of perception that didn’t accord with reality, starting with the belief that Jeter was an outstanding defensive shortstop. Then there was his cult-icon status in New York City, his rock-solid clutch-hit reputation in the playoffs, his Mariah Carey-level celebrity grade, and his heartthrob status that to this day remains something of a mystery to me. One national columnist wrote that Nomar Garciaparra had to look up and squint in order to see Derek Jeter. That was the environment in which the shortstop could sign a $189M contract that some people actually referred to at the time as a “hometown discount.”

Real value, of course, is a little different. Today, it’s not just sabrmetricians who know that Jeter has the worst range of any shortstop in baseball, and that “Mr. Clutch’s” career batting line of .314/.385/.469 in nearly 400 post-season at-bats is indistinguishable from his .317/.389/.462 overall lifetime numbers. Today, Jeter has had two straight average seasons (one of which, in fairness, came courtesy of Ken Huckaby), a trend that shows no sign of reversing as this middle infielder approaches his mid-30s. Today, there’s a vastly superior shortstop playing to Jeter’s right, a situation that everyone connected to the Yankees must quietly be recognizing hurts the team. The reality is that Derek Jeter is terribly overpaid for what he produces on the field, a situation that will only worsen over the length of his contract. But will anyone in New York face up to that?



4. Manny Ramirez, LF, 32

Eight years, $160M

2001: $13.0M
2002: $15.5M
2003: $18.0M
2004: $20.5M
2005: $20.0M
2006: $19.0M
2007: $18.0M
2008: $20.0M
2009: Team option $20.0M
2010: Team option $20.0M
(Plus $16.0M signing bonus paid over 5 years)

In the winter of 2000, a lot of bad decisions were being made by a lot of people, many of them associated with firms like Arthur Andersen and Tyco. But baseball team executives should not be left off this list. At the 2000 winter meetings, the Boston Red Sox desperately wanted free agent Mike Mussina to anchor their rotation; instead, he signed a six-year, $88.5M contract with the hated Yankees. So how did Dan Duquette respond? He did the equivalent of getting back at the nice girlfriend who dumped you by marrying the local flibbertigibbet. He signed Manny Ramirez, a tremendous hitter with a fragile temperament, to a contract two years longer and an incredible $71,500,000 richer. The Cleveland Indians presumably still have Duquette on their Christmas card list.

We all know what’s happened since, of course. Relations between the Red Sox and Ramirez deteriorated to the point where they simply placed him on waivers, hoping that someone named George might pick up the contract where they dropped it. No such luck, which led to trade discussions with the Rangers, which led to all sorts of bad things happening to Red Sox Nation. Despite his status as an overwhelming offensive force, Ramirez’s contract, as has been proven this past off-season, is literally untradeable. Manny is a one-dimensional player ― although, what a dimension― and no team is willing to take on his idiosyncrasies unless most of his salary obligations remain behind in Boston. Is it the worst deal in Red Sox history? Short of the one that helped finance No, No, Nanette, yes, it is.



5. Alex Rodriguez, 3B, 29

Ten years, $252 million

2001: $21.0M
2002: $21.0M
2003: $21.0M
2004: $21.0M
2005: $25.0M
2006: $25.0M
2007: $27.0M
2008: $27.0M
2009: $27.0M
2010: $27.0M
(Plus $10.0M signing bonus paid between 2001-2005)

A-Rod’s presence, of course, hangs over this contest like a cloud. In his own way, he’s a central player in discussions of the Jeter and Ramirez contracts, and I’m sure you’ve been thinking about him from the first paragraph of this feature. Rodriguez, even more so than Helton, is at the top of his game: he has the rare distinction of being among both the best offensive and the best defensive players in baseball. Unlike the others, he’s still in his 20s (barely), and continued excellence can be expected from him for many years to come (indeed, the move to third base might actually help prolong his career somewhat).

But there’s no escaping the fact that A-Rod’s was the ultimate contract, in the literal sense that the likes of it cannot be seen happening again in North American professional sports. “One quarter of a billion dollars” is a phrase that simply doesn’t belong in personal services contracts, yet there it is, in the total value column of the albatross that nearly sank the Texas Rangers. Rodriguez is a Yankee now, on one of only two teams that could have afforded his contract, giving New York a left side of the infield that approaches half a billion dollars in total value. But when the Steinbrenner Era passes, as it almost certainly will during the length of these deals, how soon will it be before these contracts, and especially A-Rod’s, begin weighing down even this mighty franchise?

The one thing that all these deals have in common is that they’re hot potatoes: whichever team owns the contract last will come to regret it. The Braves won’t be happy about the tens of million they’ll be paying to an aging junkballer at the end of the decade. The Rockies are probably still calling around about Helton’s deal, while the Red Sox have presumably resigned themselves to having Manny’s contract in the fold till the day he retires. Will the Yankees retain both of their out-of-position infielders to the bitter end? It says here that if they can unload one or both someday, they’ll do it.

These are five hottest potatoes in baseball; but which burns the worst? That’s your call.
Vote: The Worst Damn Contract in Baseball | 38 comments | Create New Account
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Lucas - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#65283) #
Mike Hampton
Derek Jeter
Todd Helton
Manny Ramirez
Alex Rodriguez
Craig B - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#65284) #
The odd thing is, I don't think Helton's contract is as bad as Jason Giambi's, which is a contract that no one ever complains about.

2002: $8.0M (+$17.0M signing bonus paid over 6 years)
2003: $9.0M
2004: $10.0M
2005: $11.0M
2006: $18.0M
2007: $21.0M
2008: $21.0M
2009: Team option $22.0M or $5.0M buyout

The $18,000,000 for 2006 and the $21,000,000 for 2007 and '08 don't look all that horrible, until you add the $3 million a season for the signing bonus on top. Plus you have $5 million coming at the end, as I am assuming not even George will pay $22 million for a 38-year-old DH.

Giambi is two-and-a-half years older than Helton, and has injury issues that look likely to force him to the DH spot fairly soon. (The two players are about equal in terms of production over the last four years - WARP, for example, puts them essentially dead even over the last four years).

I'd rather have Helton and his contract, overall, than Giambi and his.

It's a tough pick, though. Hampton and Jeter have brutal contracts, but A-Rod's is so off-the-charts for dollars. In the end, I'd have to go with Jeter. I don't think it's possible that his market value will be half of what the contract is for the remainder of it.

Ken Griffey's $116.5 million deal, with a lot of deferred money still to be paid, is also pretty bad. He's still owed about two-thirds of the money under that contract, and it seems like he's been overpaid for half of forever already.

Chan Ho Park still has $42 million of his 5-year, $65M deal to be paid. Owie.
_Christopher - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#65285) #
Basically a copy and paste from Lucas' post.

Mike Hampton
Derek Jeter
Todd Helton
Manny Ramirez
Alex Rodriguez

If there was an honourable mention category, I'd probably include some of the dubious deals the Dodgers have made re: Brown, Green and Dreifort.
_alsiem - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#65286) #
What boggles my mind is if the Rangers trade back Soriano to the Yankees, as some rumors suggest, then the Rangers will essentially be paying $8 million a year not to have Rodriguez. I don't think this will happen because the Yankees don't have too many young, talented, cheap players to get Soriano.
_Jordan - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:19 PM EDT (#65287) #
Actually, Craig, Giambi was on the bubble to be the fifth contract (I wanted to limit the total to five). It is an egregious deal, especially taking into account his age and general physical condition, two key aspects that weren't exactly undiscoverable when New York signed him. It was between Giambi and Hampton for the fifth spot; Helton's contract is just so long and so expensive that i felt it had to be there.

In the end, I went with Hampton mostly for the admittedly selfish reason that I didn't want three current Yankees on the list. Plus, Hampton's contract was really, really ill-advised, a monstrous gamble to be taking on a completely untested theory. While researching the article, I came across Tim Kurkijan's "analysis" of the signing at the time, which was approving: "With Mike Hampton, Denny Neagle and Pedro Astacio on board, the Rockies are much better on all points." Uh-huh.

Griffey and Park are also good candidates. And Kevin Brown's deal should always be remembered, even though the dollar amount has since been dwarfed, because it really was the archetype contract of this era; A-Rod's was just the exclamation point.
_Keith Talent - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#65288) #
Imagine what Jeter will be like in 2010! He'll make $21M.

You gotta like Toronto's future. Baltimore, Boston, NY are all to be burned by free agents. (Baltimore never learns)
_Cristian - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#65289) #
I don't think a contract is bad unless it will cripple the organization saddled with it. That said, I wouldn't include ANY Yankees on this list.
_alsiem - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#65290) #
I agree with Christian. Rodriguez was a terrible contract for the Rangers but even if the Yankees were paying the full amount it's not too bad for the Yankees. It's not that bad to pay the MVP the most money in baseball.

That Chan Ho Park one is got to be the worst solely on the lack of talent displayed by the player.
_Cristian - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#65291) #
Until the opposite is proved, I'll believe the Yankees can have twice the number of large contracts that they do now and still be profitable. If so, then Giambi, ARod, and Jeter aren't bad contracts. Besides, does anyone really think they'll be competing in 2009 with an ancient Giambi at 1B/DH, the carcass of Derek Jeter at short, and a declining ARod at 3rd? I'm sure that these contracts will be written off long before they expire. The Yankees would rather take a one time hit to their bottom line and buy out these contracts instead of having to be reminded of their old players every day in every New York paper. The buyouts won't even be big news in New York because the papers will end up focusing on the younger superstars the Yankees will have bought to replace Jeter, Giambi, and ARod.
_Paul D - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#65292) #
People keep saying that the Yankees have unlimited (or near unlimited) money, and maybe they do. What they don't have is unlimited roster spots. I can't see Jeter or Giambi stepping aside or taking a paycut.
Lucas - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#65293) #
I ranked Hampton first because he's a pitcher. O'Dowd's rationale was defensible on a certain level: Hampton was 27, very durable (as far as I know), a strong ground-ball pitcher and not prone to home runs. But giving any pitcher that many years to pitch on the Moon is indefensible on its face.

I wonder if the talk of Jeter's decline is a little premature. He's really been a model of consistency except (and it's a big except) for the 1999 season that precipitated his contract. The guy had a .393 OBP last year. Who wouldn't want that? But yes, he's grossly overpaid and he'll be an albatross by the last few years of the deal.

Facing a full year of Aaron Miles and Royce Clayton batting ahead of him, Helton might be begging for a trade in a month or two.

Manny Ramirez has a career OPS+ of 157. Boston (over)pays him to hit, so as long as he does that, anything else (defense, good teammate) is gravy.

As a Ranger fan, the Rodriguez signing bothers me far less than the Rodriguez trade. Had Texas traded A-Rod straight up, that's one thing. Trading him and paying ten of millions for the pleasure is repulsive. Tom Hicks' claim that the trade created the payroll flexibility to sign Blalock and Michael Young to long-term deals is farcical.
_AGF - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#65294) #
Derek Jeter
Mike Hampton
(Jason Giambi)
Manny Ramirez
Alex Rodriguez
Todd Helton

Gotta be happy that Daddy Giambi has a crush on the Yankees so his son didn't stay in Oakland. The Dye contract has been bad enough but it ends this year. Actually, with 20/20 the Dye contract might actually take the price of the worst contract.
Mike Green - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#65295) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=7&season=2004&seasonType=2&split=82&sortColumn=zoneRating
Incidentally, Jeter's defensive statistics are much better this year than any of the previous 4 or 5. I don't know whether it's a fluke, or whether the new personnel on either side of him has helped, but the difference is very noticeable. His zone rating is much better, and he's turning many more DPs. COMN.
_Dave - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#65296) #
If we're operating under the principle that a contract is only terrible if it cripples the organization that makes it, then Todd Helton would have to be the runaway winner here. As noted above, the Yankees could acquire Hampton, Helton, and Griffy for good measure, and still be financially viable, so Pay-Rod and Jeter aren't bad contacts. Boston and Atlanta are among the richest teams in baseball, so I'm not crying for them either. But Colorado can no longer support contarcts like Helton's, and since they can't deal him, he'll be hamstringing them for the better part of a decade.
Pistol - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#65297) #
I had no idea that Todd Helton was 30. I would have guessed 27.

To me the worst contracts are the ones where you get next to nothing from them, such as Driefort or Park.

Mike Hampton
Derek Jeter
Todd Helton
Alex Rodriguez
Manny Ramirez

If we're operating under the principle that a contract is only terrible if it cripples the organization that makes it

Just because a team can absorb a bad contract better than another team doesn't make it any less of a bad contract.

Look at it this way - if the Blue Jays had to take acquire one of those players which one would you want (ignoring who is already on the roster)?
Craig B - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#65298) #
Dave, I just don't think that's true. Colorado's fan base is one of the most rabid in all of baseball. They're not coming first in attendance every year now, but there is no reason they can't be coming in very high except that they've had a mediocre team for six years, in fact downright bad for the last two.

They have a good stadium lease as well. The Rockies have done very well so far, and if only solving the problems of playing at altitude (or rather, the problems of playing on the road for a high-altitude team) could be solved they'd be one of the NL's richest teams.

That said, they are certainly less able to handle a downturn than New York, Boston or Atlanta, so I would agree that they are much less able to digest that Helton contract than the Yankees are to digest any one of theirs.
_Jacko - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#65299) #
Other albatross contracts:

Jeff Bagwell: guaranteed 52 MM from 2004-2006.

Kevin Brown: Mr. Glass is owed 30MM for 2004-2005.

Darren Dreifort: owed 24 MM for 2004-2005.

Darin Erstad: 24 MM owed for the next three years. Man he must have a good agent!

Bobby Higginson: 19.7 MM for the next two years. Illustrates the danger of backloading...

Chipper Jones: Owed 56MM through 2006. Another scary backloaded contract. He'll be paid 10MM at the end of 2006 to buy out the 2007/2008 years of his deal.

Larry Walker: 26MM for 2004-2005.

Bernie Williams: 27.5 MM for 2004-2005.
Mike Green - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#65300) #
Remember that the Yankees had their choice of Giambi and Bonds at about the same price tag, and chose Giambi.

A repeating theme is the effect of injury. Some injury issues- Giambi, Erstad, for example- were foreseeable at the time the contract was signed. Others were not. Looking at a contract that has been impacted by unforeseeable injury issues in the middle of the term of the contract doesn't tell me much. But, other contracts were dubious or worse from the moment they were signed.
_Al P. - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#65301) #
This contact has already expired and he's no longer plaguing any other organization with his injuries, but Barry Larkin's 3 year 27M deal was pretty bad.
_Tassle - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#65302) #
Jeter
Hampton
Ramirez
Helton
Rodriguez

25 mill a season minus whatever Texas pays for a guy who, barring injury, will continue to be one of the best if not the best payer in baseball for the next 4 or 5 years at least just doesn't seem that bad to me.
Ramirez and Helton I don't mind so much because they are such amazing players. They don't suck and they've never sucked and until they start sucking I don't think they're that overpaid, all things considered. I'd rather pay 16 million for Todd Helton and what he gives a team than 12 million for Darren Dreifort or, what, 15 million for Chan Ho Park and their utter uselessness.
Hampton is a decent above-average pitcher, not an ace, who is paid ridiculous sums of money and could become completely ineffective at any time, as pitchers tend to do.
Jeter, though, is just mind boggling. 189 million for a bad shortstop and a good hitter. Read: Good hitter. Not even approaching great hitter status. He's already ridiculously overpaid, and it only stands to get worse from here unless he revitalizes his career with the Barry Bonds diet. Just awful
_Chuck Van Den C - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#65303) #
Virtually all the bloated contracts discussed in this thread came on the heels of a player actually playing well. What dumbfounds me the most is the 5-year/$55M contract Darren Dreifort signed prior to the 2001 season.

What the hell had he ever done to warrant such a contract? In his 3 years as a starter:
* he had failed to even once post a sub-4 ERA (in LA!)
* he averaged just 185 IP
* his 3:1 K:BB ratio of 1998 had dropped to under 2:1 by 2000
* his highest win total was 13, so he didn't even have the mythical rep of being a winner

Darren Erstad's 4-year/$32M contract two years removed from his one and only good season is moderately less dumbfounding. At least Erstad had one good season to inspire optimism, even if grotesquely misguided.
Mike Green - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#65304) #
Chuck, it's the curse of Darin/Darren.
_Cristian - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#65305) #
What they don't have is unlimited roster spots. I can't see Jeter or Giambi stepping aside or taking a paycut.

Well, not a paycut obviously. As we saw with Arod, the MLBPA wouldn't go for it. But if Jeter and Giambi don't want to step aside, they will be waived. The Yankees will just say, "here, take the 20/30/40/50 or 60M we owe you and have a fun retirement." The Tigers did it with Damion Easley to a smaller degree.

Just because a team can absorb a bad contract better than another team doesn't make it any less of a bad contract.

Sure it does. If I had signed Arod to play for my rec team, it would have been a bad deal because I couldn't afford to pay him. However, for the Yankees the deals aren't bad. Why are they bad if they can be made to go away and they won't ever affect the team's ability to field a championship caliber team. They don't have shareholders who will complain about inefficient use of resources. The only one who loses money will be Steinbrenner, and even this is debateable. At most, Steinbrenner makes less money than he would had the contracts not been given--and I'm guessing Steinbrenner isn't awake at night worrying.
Mike Green - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#65306) #
Cristian, the problem isn't roster spots, per se, it's ego. Derek Jeter will probably deserve a roster spot when he's 36 in 2010. But, when you're paying him $21 million, it's hard to make him a platoon leftfielder or 4th outfielder if that's what his ideal role is. That's why Jeter is still at short, Bernie Williams is still in center, and Steve Finley is still in center.

The exorbitant salaries seem to make it more difficult to adjust the player's role as his abilities change.

Here's some free advice to out-of-town BBFLers. It's been hot and muggy in Toronto for a couple of days. I'd say the odds of a slugfest again tonight were pretty good.
_Brande - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#65307) #
I think Lucas nailed it, though it's a close call between Helton and Ramirez.

Mike Hampton
Derek Jeter
Todd Helton
Manny Ramirez
Alex Rodriguez

As people have pointed out, there are a lot of other deserving candidates. Denny Neagle should be added to the list, too. I don't think any other pair of signings can compete with Hampton/Neagle.
Craig B - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#65308) #
Well, not a paycut obviously. As we saw with Arod, the MLBPA wouldn't go for it.

I think they will go for, not a paycut, but a more creative way of paying the compensation. There's lots of ways that a player can be alternatively compensated.
_Cristian - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 06:42 PM EDT (#65309) #
Mike,

I agree that ego is a factor for the Yankees now. However, the Yankees can let ego affect their decisions because they are winning. I can't imagine Jeter's ego being a consideration if the Yankees begin to tank.
Craig B - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 06:48 PM EDT (#65310) #
Trust me, if the Yankees start to tank, what Derek Jeter thinks will be the least of their worries. We'll be able to hear the scurrying of the rats leaving that ship all the way over at Front and Bay.
_Ducey - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 07:21 PM EDT (#65311) #
I am in the minority here but I would put them:

ARod
Manny
Hampton
Jeter/ Helton

I prefer to look at it from the perspective of what was known at the time of the signing by the team.

I don't like ARod's as at the time it was even over market value. It was guaranteed to make the Rangers a bad team. Instead they could have signed 3 all star pitchers and put themselves in contention (see Arizona). If the Rangers, who still are on the hook for a bunch (right?) had not unloaded this contract it would not have even been an argument.

Manny is the second worst because while a great hitter is lazy and has an attitude. This was known at the time. That last year of $20 million in 2008 is almost guaranteed to be a writeoff for the Sox. The lottery is just as to how much more they eat.

Hampton's third because it is simply too long for a pitcher. They ought to have know they could have picked up a damn good "replacement" for Hampton every year for $8 - $15 million a year.

The last two I don't think are as bad (still look lousy) because the players have/ had character and were at least at the time, there was a possibility of them being good deals.
_NDG - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#65312) #
Feel free to call me on this since I can't find actual data, so I'm going on memory.

I feel the worst contract of the last ten years is the one that Gord Ash gave Raul Mondesi. This is mostly for the implications of this contract more than the actual value.

If I remember correctly, Shawn Green was traded from the Jays for Mondesi because Ash didn't believe Green was worth the money he wanted. Eventually when Green signed for $14 mil per, this seemed true. However, Ash ruined what might have been an intelligent decision by picking up Mondesi's option years resulting in an average of $11.5 million for Raul.

Remember in comparing the two:
1) Green was a considerably better hitter,
2) Green is a year and half younger,
3) Green is/was a better fielder,
4) Green was well liked in Toronto, especially with the large affluent Jewish community here, while Mondesi had a reputation as a malcontent.

Considering this and the fact the budget conscious Jays paid Mondesi $13 million NOT to play for them in 2002 and 2003, this is I feel is worse contract than any of the others mentioned above.
_endos - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#65313) #
When you talk about crippling an organization, how can you not bring up Ramirez. The Boston Red Sox are basically taking 1 shot at the WS this year with their $125 million or whatever it is, and then next year they'll cut back to $100 million, as has been widely reported. They keep talking about how they wont be able to sign Nomar and Pedro and Ortiz and Millar and whoever else is a free agent. Well, if Ramirez wasnt making 20 million next year it wouldnt be as hard. That being said, he might be one of the 3 or 4 best offensive players in baseball. Anyways

1) Derek Jeter. Yankees = Hate. Jeter = Yankees. Jeter= Hate. Plus he's really not that good.
2) Hampton. Pitcher +lots of money + lots of years = bad
3) Ramirez. He's that good. But no defense (not so huge) and the crippling contract. Not good
4) Helton. Prime baseball years do not include anything over 34 for about 98% of baseball players
5) AROD. While he may never be as good as Honus Wagner was, he's still a pretty special player. The only other player I think of along with Rodriguez is Albert Pujols, even though their not that similar.
_Rob - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#65314) #
Jeter
Ramirez
Hampton
Helton
A-Rod
_Tassle - Friday, May 14 2004 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#65315) #
I don't really see how much worse than Wagner A-Rod is right now. His career OPS+ is 144, to Wagner's 150, which is pretty close. He's a great defensive shortstop, and so was Wagner, so I'd call that a draw. Really, the only major difference I see is the fact that A-Rod may end his career as the all-time home run champ, which would immediately make him the superior hitter in the eyes of most fans.
_Jacko - Saturday, May 15 2004 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#65316) #

If I remember correctly, Shawn Green was traded from the Jays for Mondesi because Ash didn't believe Green was worth the money he wanted. Eventually when Green signed for $14 mil per, this seemed true. However, Ash ruined what might have been an intelligent decision by picking up Mondesi's option years resulting in an average of $11.5 million for Raul.

Ash wasn't an awful GM, but his one weakness cost him dearly -- his refusal to make dump trades.

Any time he had a marketable commodity like Shawn Green, Roger Clemens, or David Wells, he insisted on getting back "major league talent" in return. Think of how better off the Jays would have been had Ash instead "settled" for a few blue chip prospects instead.
_Ryan - Monday, May 17 2004 @ 10:47 AM EDT (#65317) #
1. Jeter
2. Hampton
3. Ramirez
4. Helton
5. AROD

... and for what its worth....

6. Giambi
7. Griffey Jr.
8. Dreifort
_csimon - Monday, May 17 2004 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#65318) #
my recollection of the Green trade is different. Green was coming up to his free agent year and told the Jays he did not want to return to Toronto--he wanted to go back home to LA. Delgado was also in a position to leave. The franchise was struggling and if they had both left, it would have been devastating. I think that's one reason that management paid so much to keep Delgado here

I remember thinking that Ash had done a good job in getting Mondesi for Green because he was not in a great negotiating position. Of course, it didn't turn out that way, but I don't think that Green left because of money
_Hinto - Monday, May 17 2004 @ 05:02 PM EDT (#65319) #
Jeter's is the worst. If you have any doubts, pick him up in your fantasy pool. When you watch his stats day-to-day you'll wonder if he even brings a bat with him to the plate. As of today he's hitting .195 for 2004....
_Donkit R.K. - Monday, May 17 2004 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#65320) #
Jeter
Helton
Hampton
Manny
A-Rod
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