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After a strong start in Syracuse, Justin Miller takes the hill tonight in the Metrodome. Kyle Lohse gets the start for the Twins. Lohse has given up 19 runs in 21 and 2/3rds innings this season in his 4 starts to begin the season. Combine that with the wakening Jays bats and there's a possibility of lots of runs tonight.

Toronto Lineup:
H. Clark RF
F. Catalanotto LF
V. Wells CF
C. Delgado 1B
J. Phelps DH
E. Hinske 3B
O. Hudson 2B
K. Cash C
C. Woodward SS

Minnesote Lineup:
S. Stewart LF
D. Mientkiewicz 1B
C. Koskie 3B
T. Hunter CF
J. Jones RF
L. Ford DH
H. Blanco C
C. Guzman SS
N. Punto 2B

Enjoy the game!
Game 21 - Entering the Second Furlong | 142 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#68995) #
Looks like some Twins fans prayers are being answered. First Rivas gets dropped to ninth, now he's out of the lineup completely.
_The Original Ry - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#68996) #
Listening to Carlos Tosca on the pregame, I get the impression he had a little chat with Mr. Ricciardi after last night's game. Terry Adams is apparently the closer now and will also work the 8th inning for at least an out or two. His choice of words was "We made the decision..." rather than "I made the decision..."

Tosca is usually quite relaxed during the pregame interview, but tonight when he was talking about the bullpen situation he seemed to be talking a bit faster than normal and even sounded a bit jumpy.
_Lefty - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#68997) #
I am relieved this thread wasn't titled; Is it Miller time?

Anyway I parted with a little of my FAAB money to get him on my roto team. Hopefully he translates his AAA stats to Major League Equivalent.

Did anyone see Don Cherry's jacket tonite? Youch.
_Harry Heatherin - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#68998) #
Yeah - silvery white with zit-like dots ... the man is a sartorial GOD!
_Harry Heatherin - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#68999) #
FAAB - don't talk to me about FAAB. I plunked a nested bid this week - Justin Miller was my next choice, after Jim freakin' Mecir
- 0 ip, 4h, 5er, 1bb last night - against the Yankees, just to make it worse!
_Lefty - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:04 PM EDT (#69000) #
Well once Rhodes falls out of his rocking chair you'll be happy. No one by the way has had your fore-sight in my league yet. Mecir is on the free agent list.
Pistol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#69001) #
I am relieved this thread wasn't titled; Is it Miller time?

I try to avoid 'clever' twists on names in headlines.
_Lefty - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#69002) #
How-wee, How-wee, How-wee.
_Harry Heatherin - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#69003) #
Two on, nobody out - VW still in the 3-hole. C'mon, Dub!!!
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#69004) #
Faulds: "Clark with an extra base hit - maybe more!"

Huh?
_Harry Heatherin - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#69005) #
No, no - see, I heard that Faulds and Tom Candy-man were excellent - so look deeper for that meaning. I mean, he can't just be saying the first thing that comes into his pointy head, right?

Vernon pops up. *sigh*. At least he's being a team player - only making ONE out.
_Kieran - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:20 PM EDT (#69006) #
Guys (& gals),

Does anybody else find the Jays to be a tad (over)reactive when it comes to promoting/demoting players' roles on the team? Over the past few years, I've noticed that players are given jobs VERY quickly based on a small sample size, and then have them taken away just as fast. I realize this sounds a little "loose" for an opinion, but some empirical examples:

MOST RECENTLY
- Howie Clark taking over a significant amount of Reed Johnson's at bats because Johnson has a so-so first two weeks
- Josh Towers almost jettisoned out of the organization after one so-so and one poor start
- Terry Adams becoming official closer after one bad night by Ligt/Speier (they had good stats going into last night)

LAST YEAR
- Cliff Pollitte goes from "closer of the future" to a spare part in mere months

YEAR BEFORE
- Chris Woodward is annointed the starting shortstop (2002) after a good week of hitting, including a 3-HR game
- Felipe Lopez is given up on after a sub-par month or so in his first full season

I realize in almost all cases that these are marginal talent players. However, given the smart and rational Jays management, I'm just surprised that they can be so reactionary based on very recent performance.
Pistol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:26 PM EDT (#69007) #
Faulds: "Clark with an extra base hit - maybe more!"

Huh?


Clark should have several more ABs to get more extra base hits.
_Harry Heatherin - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:30 PM EDT (#69008) #
FWIW - 3-0 Leafs, 3:15 left in the second. Couple of sweet goals!
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#69009) #
No, no - see, I heard that Faulds and Tom Candy-man were excellent

You know, Harry, for someone that so vehemently hates the Sportsnet crew as you seem to, you sure listen to them a lot. Luckily, there is the mute button the TV for people who don't enjoy it, and the radio broadcast can take its place, or music, or golden silence.

It's one thing to voice displeasure for someone like Faulds, but it's quite another to openly mock someone else's comments made in another thread; some of us actually do enjoy the announcing crew, and while I'm sorry it doesn't please everyone, that's the breaks of life; venting here does little to help the situation.
_Harry Heatherin - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#69010) #
Wow - actually, I AM muting the game - as I usually do. I have PIP and am flipping between the Jays and the Leafs. I could not really care one way or the other about Faulds ... I was merely mocking referencing someone ELSE's displeasure with the crew - it seems several Bauxites feel strongly about them, including one person who quite likes them (hint: my reference).

Most sportscasters are talking heads - "I like to watch" - and I much prefer listening to a different MLB.com audio feed from a different game while watching my Jays.

'scuse me for living. (and nail the other guys who REALLY hate Faulds first)
_Lefty - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#69011) #
I have to agree with whoever it that said they were enjoying Candiotti's insights and opinions. I liked his games last year as well. He also has a great voice.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#69012) #
Harry, I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't think it's fair to flame someone for liking something that is not (what appears to be) the consensus opinion. We all know the adage about opinions and rectums, but I digress.

I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, the comments were made as a blanket statement, and since few people are posting tonight, and you had a mocking tone in flaming Faulds, I picked on you; for that I apologize. I just don't get what the constant picking of Faulds' mistakes do, it smacks of elitism and does nothing for our opinions and analysis of the actual team.

Continue living, please. And boo to the Leafs :)
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#69013) #
I like the way that Candiotti gives analysis on what both teams are trying to do.

IE. "[The Jays batter] is trying to hit a ball the other way, and [the opposing pitcher] is trying to get a ground ball to first"
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#69014) #
Can someone explain this to me? Why is it fine to wear 85 pounds of chains and jewelry but having tatoos like Justin Miller (or last year wearing an army undershirt like Mike Timlin) is a distraction and a violation of MLB rules?
_StephenT - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#69015) #
fyi: In-context Jays stats for the first 20 games (i.e. not counting tonight). Includes team stats, EqAs for all former Jays, etc.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#69016) #
Great chart StephenT.

I haven't followed the Rays, but is Hendrickson in the Rays' pen, or is he the fifth man?

0-2, 6.75 ERA, 17.3 IP, 9.9H/9IP, 1.6BB/9IP, 2.1HR/9IP, 2.1K/9IP.

Except for the walks, no matter how you slice it, that ain't pretty.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:16 PM EDT (#69017) #
For those not following the game, it's 0-0 in the top of the 5th. Both Lohse and Miller have been moving the ball real well, getting a lot of ground balls, as a result they have only given up 3 hits and 2 hits, respectively. Both have thrown about 60 pitches so far. Both have walked one, but Miller has struck out three.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#69018) #
Two are left in scoring position as Cat pops up the first offer from Lohse on one very weird play that saw the ball bounce off the umpire on the throw-in, allowing the runners to advance (for those wondering on Gameday). That was one long run-on sentence...
_StephenT - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#69019) #
Hendrickson's 3 games have all been starts. His first start was pretty good.
_JackFoley - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#69020) #
Henny started three and then was bullpenned. He made his first BP appearence today.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#69021) #
Thanks guys for clearing that up :)

And a wild pitch brings in Guzman, 1-0 Twins...
Pistol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:29 PM EDT (#69022) #
there's a possibility of lots of runs tonight.

Who was the idiot that said that?

Oh, wait.....nevermind
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:29 PM EDT (#69023) #
And an RBI single by Stewart doubles the lead...
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#69024) #
Things are heating up, bases loaded and no one out against Lohse, down by 2 in the fifth...
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#69025) #
Bases juiced with ZERO outs.... the jays NEED to tie the game up this inning. Then they can go back to their carrousel of men left on base.

GO JAYS GO!
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#69026) #
Twins

Runners first and third, 2 outs.

Result: 2 runs

Blue Jays

Bases Loaded, 0 outs.

Result: ?
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#69027) #
And Hinske's patience this year is rewarded with a walk with the bases loaded. 2-1 Twins.
_JackFoley - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#69028) #
Big inning. I'm saying 6 runs because...well...I can.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#69029) #
But Hudson hits into a DP that kills the run at home and Hudson at first. :( And it continues...

Phelps on third, Hinske on second, two away.
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#69030) #
1-2-3 double play. The offical Blue Jay kryptonite seems to be runners in scoring position and no outs.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#69031) #
Result: 1 run.

Cash K's. Bahhh, I don't know too many things more frustrating than watching the Jays right now. At least they got one run.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#69032) #
Ouch, a K by Cash ends a bases loaded, no out threat with only one run scored against Lohse. That hurts...
_Spicol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#69033) #
If Jays fans think that having both Berg and Gomez in the lineup against a lefty was horrible, check out this horrible injustice out of Cleveland...

Lou Merloni (563 OPS) played 1B today and Coco Crisp (620 OPS) DHed. Meanwhile, both Travis Hafner (987) and Ben Broussard (817) sat. Oy.

Granted, both are lefthanded hitters and a lefty was on the mound in Schoeneweis, but LOU MERLONI? I mean...Lou Merloni?
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#69034) #
Blech....
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#69035) #
And Koskie responds with a big homer, putting the Twins back up by two, and a Hunter single brings out Gil. What happened in the fifth could really be the turning point of this game...
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#69036) #
Maybe we're just supposed to view this futility as comical, and then they'll tear it up in the 2nd half a la Major Leauge. My name's Jobu for a reason.
_Harry Heatherin - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#69037) #
Back - loong homer to lead off the sixth for the Twins - Justin @ 75 pitches.

I've been thinking - I AM too hard on Faulds. Candiotti is actually quite good (anyone remember Cerutti? or worse, Joe Carter? [shudder!]). Faulds is easy to ignore. Unlike me, of course.

I predict a big eighth for the Jays tonight. Because.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#69038) #
At least Koskie's on my fantasy team...

Nakamura is warming up, I've been wanting to get a look at him.

Or, as his name would be in hiragana:


(Yes, I was bored)
_Harry Heatherin - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#69039) #
Hinske looked pretty smooth holding the runners at 2nd and 3rd, then throwing Loooooo Ford out at first. I think he may be a decent fielder. Anecdotal, but there are more and more of those anecdotes this season.

Something to feel good about, I guess.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#69040) #
...it could be worse, Sakwiw could move into the actual game analysis.

I feel bad for him because his job is basically to regurge whatever the announcers say, and if you're a smark fan who knows more than the average fan about the game, then it's complete rehash.

As for Faulds, I'll admit that he can say some pretty silly things, but in the heat of the moment, don't we all (please don't tell me I'm the only one to call out an ex-girlfriend's name at a most inopportune time)? To me, he's just a big kid enjoying the game.

As for this game, a double steal is deteriorating things for the good guys quickly, as it's second and third, one out and Nakamura in to pitch; I believe it's his first time on TV in a Jays outfit, and I'm lovin' the arm delivery, what a K on the knee-buckler!
_JackFoley - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#69041) #
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/news/tor_news.jsp?ymd=20040428&content_id=731258&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp
Apologies if this isn't breaking news, but Adams will be given closing opportunities next. COMN.
_JackFoley - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#69042) #
Wow, awful call at second.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#69043) #
Forgive my language, but that was a piss-poor call by the umpire on the Johnson/Woodward play on second. Talk about being too relaxed with your job...
_Steve Z - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#69044) #
Minor league hijack: Josh Banks (3-0) pitched another 5 shutout innings today (5 IP, 4 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 7 SO) and for the season he's only allowed ONE earned run: 22 IP, 12 H, 4 BB, 27 SO.
_GregH - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#69045) #
Woody 3 for 3!

Is it my imagination, or is he turning into a decent ballplayer? I can't even remember his last error - anyone know how many he's had this year (that stat isn't on the Jays' web site)?
_braden - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#69046) #
For those of us watching on Gameday, can someone explain what happened?
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#69047) #
Wow, awful call at second.

What happened.

And, ugh, ugly DP there. Sigh.
_haddon - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#69048) #
Nakamura did a great job, but he makes me nervous....
Breaking ball after breaking ball, slow delivery, slower pitches.
When major leaguers figure him out, they'll go back-to-back-to-back-to-back etc, until Nakamura lands up back in little league.
----
HOW MANY JAYS DOUBLE PLAYS?
yech
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#69049) #
Guzman's foot was on second, then he moved about 2 feet off the plate when he received the ball. The umpire, who had a very clear view of the play, completely missed it and called it an out; I'm surprised Tosca wasn't out.

Another DP, of the strike em out-catch em in between variety to end the inning.
_GregH - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#69050) #
Why wasn't Tosca out complaining about that call at 2nd? Last time he was tossed, it seemed to help the Jays.
Pistol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#69051) #
From the Notes linked above:

Field (turf) of dreams: The Metrodome's new FieldTurf hasn't inspired an outpouring of enthusiasm. But the substance has won some fans in the Toronto dugout.

"It stays true," Tosca said. "It's not like Tampa Bay's, which has clay. The ball can do funny stuff with clay. Every hop here is a true hop."

Eric Hinske seconded his manager's thoughts.

"They say we might get it as a replacement to the AstroTurf at SkyDome," he said. "I hope we do. I like it."
_Dr. Zarco - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:06 PM EDT (#69052) #
Since I flipped on the game in the 5th things have gone very wrong. Jays strand 2 in the 5th. The two runs in the bottom of th 5th never should have happened, as Miller had Guzman struck out but didn't get the call. Next pitch basehit (of course) to start the two out rally. Then after the walk to push one across, the Jays manage to not score in a bases loaded none out situation. Nakamura did a nice job to strand 2 on 2nd and 3rd. The call at second was the old "neighborhood" rule. Guzman was a good foot and a half from touching the bag on the force out/dp attempt and got the call. Strike 'em out, throw 'em out was a fitting way to end the 7th. Maybe if I stop watching again things'll go well.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#69053) #
I should rephrase that:

Guzman's foot was initially on second, then he moved about 2 feet off the plate towards first, then a second later he received the ball.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#69054) #
Awww, why didn't come back? I thought he looked good out there. Oh well, Kershner should be good.
_Dr. Zarco - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#69055) #
Whoops, didn't stop watching. 1st/3rd none out (on a walk, a balk, then another walk).
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#69056) #
After seeing Kershner, it would appear that those dopey TPB Ricky-sideburns are becoming the trademark of the Jays pen. Oh well, better that than the Johnny Damon look gaining popularity :)
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#69057) #
It's just so hard to assess this team though isn't it? You start to think that they've turned it around, and then they have a couple games like this one that looks exactly like the games they were having a week or so ago.

Just absolutely nothing going right. Dead bats with RISP, bad calls by umpires, hell, even a balk.
_The Original Ry - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:19 PM EDT (#69058) #
I propose that we stick every member of this team in a cannon and then lauch them out of it.

Although knowing this team's luck, they wouldn't get out of the infield...
_The Original Ry - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#69059) #
That should be LAUNCH.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#69060) #
The umpiring has been very suspicious tonight... and Cash definitely let the home plate umpire know what he thought about what was a clear strike from Frasor.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#69061) #
ANOTHER DP by the Twins!

Usually quiet Roy Halladay was letting the umps know what he thought as well from the bench. I respect that leadership immensely.
_Matthew E - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#69062) #
When was the last time the Jays hit a home run? Seems like forever.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#69063) #
11 hits have thus far translated to only one run for the good guys, thanks largely in part to 3 double plays, and being 0 for 7 with RISP.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#69064) #
Good point Matt E.

Was it the Gomez Slam? Couldn't be.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#69065) #
Bases loaded again. I believe that's the third time tonight. Let's have a better fate please.
_Matthew E - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#69066) #
I think it might have been Gomez. Did Delgado hit one since then?
_Spicol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#69067) #
I'm so glad Shannon is a bad outfielder.
Pistol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#69068) #
I confess, I had no confidence in Cash there.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#69069) #
YAY!!!! Jays are back in the game, down 5-4 now after Cash clears the bases with a double.

Maybe the trick is for them to have 2 outs, instead of none. Go figure...

Plus those of us watching on TV got to see Butterfield's hilarious crouching, big arm wave; that guy cracks me up.
_The Original Ry - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#69070) #
Delgado and Cash had home runs Saturday in Baltimore.
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#69071) #
Yep, zero outs is definatly their kryptonite and two outs is.... well, i never actually read the comment. I'll just say whatever makes superman stronger.

Never drink and post.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#69072) #
Hooray!

Thank you Cash.

And thank you (even more) Shannon Stewert. Hw almost caught that though. Just imagine if he had dove out and robbed Cash of a hit, stranding three more.

Of course, that didn't happen, so it doesn't matter. Come on Woody, let's make it 4-for-4. Does a base his score Cash? I don't know about his speed.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#69073) #
Who'd have thought that 1/8 into the season, Chris Woodward would be hitting over .300 with a 4 for 4 night?

Finally, some luck for the Jays, and they tie the game on a bloop single and a bounce into the dugout.
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#69074) #
when i said "comment" i ment "comic". Again, never drink and post.
_Chris B. - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#69075) #
The 'pen better make up for lost opportunities. (crosses fingers)
_Jacko - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#69076) #
Wow, that was pretty awful fielding by the Twins.

Both of those balls should have been caught.
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#69077) #
wow, this is so awesome! I know what feels like to be on the other side of a big comback now! I hope they hang in this one.

I predict a big eighth for the Jays tonight. Because.

In the words of Otto, "Now im scared"
_Chuck Van Den C - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#69078) #
Nice to see the Twins fans suffer through what we endured last night (a seemingly sure victory being snatched away).

Interesting that there was a long thread today on Stewart's defensive abilities. An above average fielder catches that ball, dive and all.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#69079) #
I predict a big eighth for the Jays tonight. Because.

You called it Harry; care to buy my lottery tickets?

Another terrible call by the home ump, giving Frasor nothing near the knees on Blanco; Frasor did not look impressed.
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#69080) #
Harry Heatherington: Can you now predict a big 9th for the Jays just because, or do your magical powers not work like that?
_Chuck Van Den C - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#69081) #
Aaarrrgghhh. Why walk Guzman? You know that Punto is not going to bat.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#69082) #
Well it sets up the double play.
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#69083) #
Anyone else have any gametime superstitions? I was listening on the fan on the internet but when it got to 5 - 1 i turned it off in anger. Now im affraid to tune back in and listen to the game. Must keep all my windows exactly the same, the Jays are counting on me.
_Chuck Van Den C - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#69084) #
Well it sets up the double play.

And if it doesn't, then you're electing to pitch to Stewart, the #1 hitter, instead of Guzman, the #8 hitter.
_Ryan Day - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#69085) #
Great. Tosca's given up the revolving door in the bullpen and replaced it with mandatory intentional walks any time first base is open.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#69086) #
Twins take the lead in the bottom half off a single from Adams. Looks like we'll get to see Joe Nathan for the first time real soon. The pen just isn't getting it done the last two nights.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#69087) #
Two more runs and the Twins are up again, just like that.

S'okay though, because Catalanotto and Wells will both single and Delgado will hit a 3-run blast in the ninth to put the jays ahead.

Yes.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#69088) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Ow.
_Matthew E - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#69089) #
What's going on here? Is this some kind of joke?
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#69090) #
this REALLY sucks....
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#69091) #
Hey guys, remember last year when Dan Reichert throw two wild pitches trying to intentionally walk a guy? Yeah, that was funny.

Ha. Ha.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#69092) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Nearly double ow.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#69093) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Now double ow.
_Lefty - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#69094) #
I guess the Jays threw this one away huh?
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#69095) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Thankfully, the 8th is now over.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#69096) #
Since this game is, in the words of Faulds, "starting to fall apart" as Cash has to do his best impression of Roberto Alomar to keep it from becoming 9-5 on a terrible Adams pitchout, I can take some solace in the fact that with the number of hits this team is getting, they are going to be just scary if they can start hitting with RISP; after all, they're scoring 5 runs a game without much clutch.

And as I type this, a passed ball/wild pitch makes it 9-5 anyways. Sigh... and the Cash magic is for naught
_Matthew E - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#69097) #
So what went right in this game? I guess Miller looked okay. Woodward.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#69098) #
Okay, I am going to officially label this as the ugliest game ever.

I think we've had 4 wild pitches, and let's not forget those great "plays" the Twins OF made last inning.
Pistol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#69099) #
So is the new closer tomorrow going to be Nakamura?
_Spicol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#69100) #
Relax. There's a whole inning left to play and this looks like one of those games...
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#69101) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Spicol has it right. And I just went and put on my lucky jersey to try to give them a little extra boost.
_Lefty - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#69102) #
You don't bring your closer into thew game unless its a save situation. And never never bring him in eight! ;->
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:00 PM EDT (#69103) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Promising start.

Let's keep it rolling, Vernon!
_Spicol - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#69104) #
You don't bring your closer into thew game unless its a save situation. And never never bring him in eight!

Why not?
_Jobu - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#69105) #
I encourage everyone to break out any charms/supsersitions they have immediatly. It aint over yet!
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#69106) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Candiotti's comment earlier about how strange it was that the umpires could be playing such precise attention to notice the tiniest glove movement and call a balk on Kersh but then totally miss the play on second where Guzman (was it Guzman?) was a good two steps off of the bag when he received the ball should maybe be recalled here.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#69107) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Not to mention the complete garbage missed strike call.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#69108) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Bleah.

Cash looks depressed on the bench. He shouldn't -- he came through big time.

What a bizarre pitching meltdown.
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#69109) #
Well, that's it.

Here are the final stats for the bullpen tonight:

2 2/3 IP 4 H 6 R 4 BB 1 K

Yikes. Anyone want to combine those with last night's stats?

Just two nights though, they were doing fine before yesterday.
_Ryan Day - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#69110) #
I'm growing increasingly wary of Tosca's ability to manage. He really does seem to do everything in the Manager's Handbook. First it was "obtain the platoon advantage at all costs"; now it's "intentionally walk the worst hitter in the lineup in desperate hopes of a double play."

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But it's getting increasingly harder...
Named For Hank - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:13 PM EDT (#69111) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Come on, Ryan, Tosca didn't send Adams out there to plate three runs with wild pitches over his catcher's head.
_Matthew E - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:17 PM EDT (#69112) #
I'm listening to the postgame on the FAN. The game seems to have annoyed Mike Wilner to some extent.
_R Billie - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#69113) #
Yeah, I'm still scratching my head on walking Guzman on purpose. If we're going to be scared of pitching to the Guzman's of the league just because they bat from the opposite hand of the pitcher then we might as well contract the team now. Intentionally walking a .600 ops hitter in a tie game. Wow.
_Chris B. - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#69114) #
Tosca gets a free pass the last two nights. He can't pitch out there for these guys. These are veteran pitchers throwing cans of gasoline on bonfires the last two nights. Its pathetic. Who cares how good the bullpen has pitched in "garbage time." In the pressure spots, they have really let down the team. Now let me go find the nearest suspension bridge and hurl myself off it in misery.
_Ryan Day - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#69115) #
No, but he did make the decision to walk Christian Guzman. Never mind that the infield defence doesn't exactly guarantee a double play.

Heh. Wilner doesn't seem to be terribly happy about it, either.
_Chris B. - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#69116) #
And I should note that I am not the biggest Tosca supporter. I think Tosca is shellshocked by the pen.
_actionjackson - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#69117) #
Whew! glad that's over
Time to scrape the $*!% off my palate and catch a little Wilner and some MLB Extra Innings, in order to restore my faith in baseball as the greatest game on the planet. Unfortunately, I've been using MLBXI far more as a cure for depression than as a supplement to following one of the "rising teams in baseball". I can't even begin to emote on this one. SAD is the only word I will use, and there's no need to analyse this pathetic display any further. As the sign at the Leaf game said tonight: "This ain't no ballet" AMEN
_Ryan Lind - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:26 PM EDT (#69118) #
Ahh, what was Wilner saying? Do any stations have some kind of "Audio Vault" where I can listen to past hours?
_Shane - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#69119) #
Vernon Wells is a mess at the plate.

Perhaps the least patient Blue Jays hitter/player (even Hudson and Woodward take far more pitches in '04 than the chosen one) he has to realize how inept his pitch selection judgement is at this point --because there isn't any. Wells takes very little pitches at the best of times, so swinging at most anything they throw you when you are quite plainly going very bad, is somewhat immature. If he can't maintain a focused approach to right his plate appearances ship, perhaps the manager should give him a day off or two to think about it. The AB in the ninth was pathetic. Catalanotto works his ass of for a walk and Wells couldn't be bothered. Somewhere Dusty Baker chews on a toothpick with a smile.
_R Billie - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#69120) #
I think lost in all this is that Justin Miller actually looked pretty good out there until he lost his release point in the 5th inning. If he can keep doing that and the Jays can give him some runs and bullpen support he'll do just fine.
Thomas - Wednesday, April 28 2004 @ 11:58 PM EDT (#69121) #
Blarg. What a frustrating game. There were positives like Miller's first four innings, Nakamura looked good with his sidearm delivery and his breaking stuff. There was a good late-inning rally where we got back into a game that it looked like the Jays had given away.
_Fozzy - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 12:06 AM EDT (#69122) #
I'm listening to the postgame on the FAN. The game seems to have annoyed Mike Wilner to some extent.

it's probably a good thing Wednesday's with JP was moved to Tuesday this week then, as JP was pretty peeved last night; tonight between the pen's meltdown, the number of runners left in scoring position and the shoddy umpiring, he's gotta be in far worse shape.

On the plus side, Miller looked excellent the first four innings, but when he got into some trouble it seemed to rattle him, and he wasn't the same pitcher after that. Perhaps he was trying to pick the corners, his fatal flaw in '02?

The defence looked good out there, and Jason Frasor was fantastic again, despite the intentions of the home ump. Chris Woodward was also great, getting 4 hits, and Wells had a couple, raising some hope for his turning the corner. Nakamura was solid as well; between him and Frasor were two of the nastiest breaking pitches outside of Roy Halladay I've seen from the Jays this season. And, bad pun alert, Cash was money!

Cash let the umpire know what he thought on the game calling, and when he began to talk back to Cash, Halladay stepped up and defended his catcher from the bench. That, my friends, is the sign of a clubhouse leader.

On the bad side, the rest. Kershner showed us what happens when you bench a reliever for so long, and Adams chose a bad time to pull off what appeared to be a Cory Lidle attitude after the Twins took the lead, especially after almost tossing the ball away on an intentional walk.

I still don't know why we didn't see Tosca out after the garbage force out to Woodward, he'll be peeved once they see it on the tape, and the inabilibty to plate runs with men on base cost the good guys a chance to bury the Twins in almost every inning.

This one, maybe even more than yesterday, stings....
_Jobu - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 12:10 AM EDT (#69123) #
Us jay faithful have been put through some cruel and unusual punishement. I might have even perfered a blow out aginst the jays instead of another blown save. I mean blowing one game in the 9th, looking like you're going to get crushed the next night, only to tie it up and THEN blow the tie with the bullpen again.... just not fair.
_Dr. Zarco - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 12:28 AM EDT (#69124) #
Ugh, I flipped off the game in frustration after Delgado's GIDP in the 8th (I almost NEVER do that too). Quite a surprise to find out what I missed over the next 4 outs of the game. This is all pretty difficult to swallow. It's nice to know other people feel as crappy as I do after two losses like this back to back.

There's just no way to fathom coming out of Minnesota losing the series. I just can't believe it. Well, I can, cause on the other hand with the RISP #'s, the balk, the umps, the wild pitches and general bad timing of everything, I'm surprised they scored as many runs as they did. The Twins broadcasters (I think it was Blyleven) brought up a stat-the Jays got the leadoff man on in 15 out of the 27 innings of the series. That's fairly impressive, but they left way too many out there.
_Dr. Zarco - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 12:32 AM EDT (#69125) #
I guess I don't mean "nice" that everyone is pissed. I don't really know what the heck I mean. Tomorrow's a new day though. Gotta go beat down on the White Sox. Although it's supposed to be pretty crappy weather here in Chicago, so all 4 might not be played. Anyone see the wind during the Sox/Indians game today? Broussard staggered around with the wind and dropped an infield popup in the 9th to aid the comeback. Supposed to be just as windy tomorrow. Good luck keeping the ball in the park Pat.
_mathesond - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 01:39 AM EDT (#69126) #
I worked a 15-hour day at the Drake in Chicago on Wednesday. Fortunately, the 20 mph-wind was at my back, and the temps were warm, on the bike ride home. I will be at the Thursday game, although apparently Friday calls for 41F/5C and rain - so if Doc gets pushed back to Saturday, I'll be at a certain Northside tavern, and the only one asking to see the Sox game. But at least I'll be asking from the perspective of a Jays fan, and they're expecting that by now
_Niles - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 01:55 AM EDT (#69127) #
Chris Woodward stole Derek Jeter's mojo. Discuss.
_mathesond - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 02:07 AM EDT (#69128) #
Chris Woodward stole Derek Jeter's mojo. Discuss.

And I thought the Dr. Evil era ended with Gord Ash's move to Milwaukee
_Matt - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 02:16 AM EDT (#69129) #
I was thinking in my head during the missed call on the basepad that the ump's were drunk... but then as Candiotti says, they manage to lay down the second most moronic balk call that has gone against us this season (well 'second most' part is an extra detail I added, and surely you all know of the play from which I speak)... and the non-strike/strike calls that all happened to go against the jays are well documented I see as well...

So there's no way they could be drunk... such calls and non-calls are not under the behaviour of drunkeness... oh no.... such malicious behaviour only comes from those who've turned schizphrenic from chewing far too many tabs of acid... the only possible logical and scientific explanation I can come up with... The home plate and second base umps got together for a few tabs before the ball game... their trip started its peak in the sixth inning... and then years of drug abuse led to degenarative, schizophrenic, malicious behavior resulting in the travesty that all of us had to endure in a night when our team is overshadowed but little rubber pucks anyways....

like I said... only possible reasonable explanation there is...

blah...

So, We must all look to valhalla men... may its gods aid our fallen warriors.... carry your magic hammer bauxites... for our day shall arrive!!!!
Named For Hank - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 06:27 AM EDT (#69130) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Yeah, there are two options with the umpiring last night:

1) Incompetent

2) Crooked

Neither are charitable options.

Cash let the umpire know what he thought on the game calling, and when he began to talk back to Cash, Halladay stepped up and defended his catcher from the bench. That, my friends, is the sign of a clubhouse leader.

That was fantastic. I wish I could have heard what Roy said. Any lip-readers?
Named For Hank - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 06:51 AM EDT (#69131) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Tosca was quoted on the FAN just now as saying the last 48 hours have been the worst of his career, with being second-guessed by his GM and being ranked as the coach most likely to be fired by that offshore betting site (in addition to the games).
Named For Hank - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 07:35 AM EDT (#69132) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Does Adams' performance shed new light on Tosca's pitching decisions for the past two nights or not?
_Spicol - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 08:09 AM EDT (#69133) #
with being second-guessed by his GM and being ranked as the coach most likely to be fired by that offshore betting site

Did he actually say that he was second guessed by his GM, Aaron?

If so, good. JP is sticking to his vision. You have to give a man props for that.
Named For Hank - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 09:55 AM EDT (#69134) #
http://bluejayscheerclub.com
The quote was relayed by the Deacon during one of the 20-20 sports updates, and so I don't know where Tosca's actual quote ended and the Deacon's explanation of why began.
_Harry Heatherin - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#69135) #
I watched the rest of this mug in bed after the 7th ... my crystal ball was fully fuctional - it predicted the big 8th inning, but I didn't have the heart to tell you guys about that depressing ninth ...

But the future looks bright around June 20th or so (unless you are a Yankee fan, or related to Joe Torre).
_R Billie - Thursday, April 29 2004 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#69136) #
Well I feel sorry for Tosca and JP should probably not have second guessed him in public but I'm not usually on the same page with him on how he uses his pitchers. I don't like the fact that he calls pitchouts which put his on pitcher in the hole with men on base either. I think as much as anything it is frustration over the fact that the Jays looked like they were back on track, finally get some hitting and some starting pitching, only to witness the things that have happened the last two days.

Setting aside the fact that Ligtenberg, Speier, and Adams have been jaw droppingly horrid the last two days. And the Jays' hitters have simply not delivered in gimme situations with copious double plays and base running outs a plenty.

At least Vernon finally figured out last night that there's a whole other part of the baseball field out behind the second and first baseman which he can hit the ball to occasionally. Especially if 94% of the pitches coming your way are on or off the outside corner.
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