Love the "Pointless Comment". Incidentally, the 2-0 guy is Curt Schilling, unfortunately it's not Batista vs. Batista.

But no way in hell Earl signs or plays Chris Gomez. Sorry, that's not on the cards!

Barry Bonds Watch :

Bonds voluntarily surrendered a chance at the major league record of home runs in eight straight games, as he came out in the eighth inning in an 11-0 loss to the Padres. Barry was 0-for-1 with two walks and a strikeout, and took a total of zero swings in the game. He saw 10 balls and three called strikes, all from Jake Peavy. Peavy insists he was pitching to Bonds.

He is hitting .500/.672/1.342 for an OPS of 2.015 this year.

Projected totals:

 G   AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB SO  AVG  OBP  SLG   OPS
162 410 151 205 54  0 97 205 216 43 .500 .672 1.342 2.015 

Incidentally, the 2-0 guy is Curt Schilling, unfortunately it's not Batista vs. Batista.

Whoops... thanks!

But no way in hell Earl signs or plays Chris Gomez. Sorry, that's not on the cards!

I tried to limit it to guys already in the organization, but you're right. The arrangement I posted is far from an ideal Weaver team. I imagine Earl would also have a Cal Pickering/Ken Harvey type pinch-hitter on the roster.

Much later baby you'll be saying never mind.
You know life is cruel, life is never kind.

But the Jays are not in America, Mike.

Barry was 0-for-1 with two walks and a strikeout, and took a total of zero swings in the game. He saw 10 balls and three called strikes, all from Jake Peavy. Peavy insists he was pitching to Bonds.

Well, it would depend on where the balls were located. I'd imagine that (a) Bonds gets a lot more calls on borderline pitches and (b) if you are pitching to Bonds, you are going to try to nibble instead of challenging him. So I could see Peavy being honest in saying that he was pitching to Bonds (especially if he got 3 called strikes).

Jason

I am dismayed that Bonds has falled so far as to be under a 100-homer pace.

I was dismay that Mick grammar is falled down too.

:)

It was a tpyo.

. We can organize an 'revival' group to start cheers. For years the organ has been trying to get the "let's go blue jays' chant going. Maybe we can take that up, and/or intersperce players names when they're up to bat. "Let's go, Vernon" dah, dah, dah dah dah. Any ideas are good ideas.

We've had one for awhile. You should come out with us. It's called the Blue Jays Cheer Club, and the guys are an absolute riot.

Fans tend to cheer more when they feel less conspicuous. Me, I don't particularly mind if someone stares at me when I yell, "Come on, Vernon!" or something like that, but many people probably worry that if they step out of line, one of the bevy of polite but extremely insistent men carrying walkie-talkies will ask them to kindly vacate their seat, please.

In Exhibition Stadium, the only loud part of the stands was the north grandstand, and that's because it had a roof to enclose the sound. Fans felt safe to vent there.

If Milwaukee can with its weather, why not us?

In short, because the people who own the SkyDome figure turf is better for conventions, monster truck pulls, and concerts by boy bands. All of which, to their way of thinking, are more important than the Blue Jays.

Grrr.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
"Haven't read the whole thread and I assumed this has been mentioned, but anyone else want to kill the @#%$ guy with the alpshorn? I mean drive to Toronto tonight with me, find him, and beat him to death with it? "

I apologize. I've been using it instead of screaming while I rehab my poor throat. And there are about 20 of us that I can think of with 'em.

While I don't think they're as good as cheering, I'd much rather have the sound of the horns than utter silence.

Also, part of the sound problem is the acoustical nightmare that is SkyDome. Still, I'd lay most of the blame at the feet of the quiet Toronto crowds who are busy talking on their cell phones and reading their newspapers.

I've never been to an MLB game outside of Toronto... how does the noise level compare? Is it really that bad?

I was at the game Tuesday night, and while I thought we could have made a bit more noise it didn't seem dead... Are other stadiums full of yelling screaming baseball fans?

Maybe the Jays should cut the price of beer in half. That would increase the noise.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
I'm writing the team today to see what can be done about getting rid of that crap.

Seriously? You complain about the quietness of the crowds but then you want the team to legislate what kind of noise the crowd can make at the game?

We're fighting an uphill battle here. Writing a letter like that could well be a nail in the coffin of our outfield orchestra plans. I mean, we're trying to get them to let us in with a bass drum -- will they still think it's a good idea when they get complaints about the noise at SkyDome?

I've never been to an MLB game outside of Toronto... how does the noise level compare? Is it really that bad?

Yeah. The Toronto crowd is a joke when you compare it to other east coast teams. A couple years ago I saw a meaningless Philly-Montreal series at the Vet, and it was amazing. My friend and I were in the cheap seats cheering our ass off for Jose Vidro, and the Phillies fans around us were cheering and chanting and heckling throughout the game. It was a blast, and the Phillies fans were really nice to us.

One thing I've noticed is that Toronto baseball crowds have a disproportionately small number of 20-40 year old males relative to the crowds I've seen at other games. I think the Rochester Red Wings draw more fans in that demo than the Jays do.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Toronto fans are quiet, even Leafs fans at the ACC. Upper deck at the ACC isn't so bad, but once you're in the nice seats it's a no-cheering zone. The men with nice cufflinks will give you dirty looks at talk to the ushers about you if you shout CHARGE when they play the bugle call. I know, I've had the ushers talk to me.

Upper deck at the SkyDome ain't so bad as field level, which is like a library. But the sound doesn't carry so well in there.

I went to a Carpenter-Pedro game at Fenway in 2001, and the difference in the atmosphere is enormous. Based on noise level and the general "buzz" of the crowed, the difference is there and its apparent.

I saw a game last year in Comerica against the Jays, and that didn't see that different, but the attendance wasn't very good, ushers were incredibly strict (strictest I've encountered) and it was last year's sad-sack Tigers.

This was mentioned in some other thread, I believe, but what we need to do is to get a couple of drums and other noise-makers in there, and provide some good background noise.

I was at a game two years ago against the Yankees, and the Jays lost 17-1.
We were about 20 rows behind home plate, and at about the 6th inning we started yelling out "Okay, rally starts now!" "We only need 14 more boys!" stuff like that.
And we got a few laughs, and no one seemed to mind. I would hope that that's what it'll be like for anyone that makes noise.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
The hardest part is getting people to join in, because they feel self-conscious.

But seriously, if JKCL is really going to write a letter to complain about the noise we make now, can we expect that same kind of support from everyone else?

http://me.woot.net
I submit that NFH may just change the way Toronto fans do business.

I am a "quiet fan." I generally don't like making a lot of noise; it's a bashfulness issue. I'm actually very confident in front of large crowds, a fairly decent public speaker, but I have found I need impetus (in the form of a very outgoing person, usually) to get me past the self-conscious stage.

Anyways, at the first Batter's Box night at the Dome, I started yelling CHARGE at the top of my lungs. Of course I have NFH to blame for that. But it seems that the ice is broken: yesterday I caught myself yelling at the TV. Now that I've thought about it, I've been more comfortable making noise ever since then.

All we need is a group of somebodies to break the ice. I agree that the horn is obnoxious, but I don't like it for another reason: it doesn't draw people in. The drum will draw people in: it's less piercing and it can provide rhythm for clapping and cheers.

I really like the way the Cheer Club is going. I think so long as we're inclusive and encouraging in our cheering, we can make a difference.

http://aaron@bluejayscheerclub.com
I posted in the How To Cure A Slump thread about the next home stand being our Stop The Streak chance. Let's get organized and get out there in force.

I'm happy to organize tickets for anyone who needs them, just let me know.

I went to a Carpenter-Pedro game at Fenway in 2001, and the difference in the atmosphere is enormous. Based on noise level and the general "buzz" of the crowed, the difference is there and its apparent.


Fenway is an awesome place to see a game.

Even the 65 year old grandmothers quaff beers and talk about how good "gah-see-yuh-paaaaah" is.

Relax. Last season from April 10-23, the Jays went 2-12. Good teams do go cold from time to time, and in this case, the Jays have started the season this way.

There are no obvious changes to call for, except something to wake up the bats. Rather than a bat-burning, I suggest the Jays go tropical. Make the Skydome into the equivalent of the Australian pavilion at the zoo- 24 degrees C and 60% relative humidity. The Jays were hitting in Florida and stopped when they arrived here. We can't bring Toronto to Florida, so let's bring Florida to the Skydome. Serve pina coladas instead of beer!

Dave Till and I went, with a few others, to the Mike Maroth 20th loss game last year. We were VERY vocal (and had a blast) - and didn't really care about the strange looks we were getting from people around us (most people have no sense of history).

I like to make noise at a game, but I have been to ballgames in 16 ML cities and quite a few minor league cities and I'm sorry, but I refuse to praise obnoxious New Yawkers and Bahstonians for being loud and abrasive at ballgames. We need to be more involved, more vocal, but ... Am I the only one who groans at the "Charge" sheep-call? (I was at a game at the Astrodome once where a very obedient crowd attentively watched and obeyed the score board - Stepford fans!). I have stood up and yelled at people around me at the Dome for doing the stupid "wave - one of the most three most obnoxious things that can happen at a ballgame (the other two are, of course "the macarena" and "Y-M-C-A").

And I think the horns are cool (as long as they are at least a full section away from me) - they sound Canadian to me. So let's make creative noise, but I'd prefer we not be told by the Jumbo-Adver-Tron what to do and when to do it.

And let's be a little more original with the heckling / cheering --- too many people have one thing only they know to yell - and they yell it over, and over, and over ...

Sorry for the rant. Need caffeine ....

Again to find a positive. The pitching was alright last night. Remember that the Jays routinely gave up 7 + runs a game last year and still won 13-7.

The hitting will pick up.

http://mothershipconnection.blogspot.com/
Fenway is an amazing place to take in a game, there are times that Sox pitchers get standing ovations on 3-2, 2 out pitches. But that's only because baseball is a religion to us Bahstonians. Go to a hockey game, and you don't see that kind of intensity. I'm sure Leafs games are much more rancorous and spirited than our hockey games.

Hmmm... I always considered the fact that people weren't always screaming as a plus when attending a game.

Of course I would rather have yelling fans than that obnoxious music they play everytime they can.

Whatever happened to a lazy summer day at the ballpark?

i go to junior hockey games pretty often and when i do i go nuts. i went to the london knights/guelph storm game on saturday and heckled until i lost my voice. but i can never work up the nerve to really get going at baseball games. i think the main difference is how close i am to the players at hockey games compared to baseball games.

This team needs a Dancin' Homer.

"And I got up in front of them. I felt an intoxication that had nothing to do with alcohol. It was the intoxication of being a public spectacle!"

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
too many people have one thing only they know to yell

...and it's "Go Leafs Go".

Hmmm... I always considered the fact that people weren't always screaming as a plus when attending a game.


The noise at Fenway is not really from screaming and heckling, it's more of a constant "buzz".

The place is completely alive because all 35,000 people are paying attention and reacting to every last detail. Even a well caught or poorly misplayed foul ball will elicit loud cheers or boos.

That happens to a certain extent in Toronto, but not nearly enough to fill a half empty stadium with noise.

Which brings me to another point. Fenway is _tiny_, so it's not all that hard to fill the place with noise. The newer ballparks are about scale and sightlines. It's really too bad that modern stadium designers don't seem to give too much thought to acoustics.

This team needs a Dancin' Homer.

"And I got up in front of them. I felt an intoxication that had nothing to do with alcohol. It was the intoxication of being a public spectacle!"


Better still, how about some kind of Billy Brewer ripoff?

Example: You could get Ace and Gary to bungee jump off the catwalk every time the Jays hit a HR.

On April 27th. 2003 the Jays record was 9-16. They were 11.5 games behind the evil empire. The Jays were on their way to a bad loss to the KC Royals when the Jays scored 6 runs in the bottom of the ninth to win the game, thanks to some shoddy play by the Royals.

The Jays actually lost their next two games to go 10-18 before they won 5 in a row and 8 of their next ten. The Jays did not reach .500 until May 18th.

The Jays today are 6 1/2 games out (4 better than last year) and need a winning streak to get back on track.

Some of a teams wins come about because the other team has a bad day. Their starter does not have "it", he hangs a few pitches, or the defense makes a few bad errors. This has not happened to the Jays yet. They need Schilling to hang a few, or Bellhorn or Manny to butcher a play or two, and pick up a cheap win to get the monkey off their backs.

Some of a teams wins come about because the other team has a bad day. Their starter does not have "it", he hangs a few pitches, or the defense makes a few bad errors. This has not happened to the Jays yet. They need Schilling to hang a few, or Bellhorn or Manny to butcher a play or two, and pick up a cheap win to get the monkey off their backs.


Schilling, like Halladay, can be a little homer-prone at times. They both prefer to challenge guys rather than walk them.

If the "patient jays" finally decide to show up tonight, there might be something to cheer about.

Ooops... Greg Zaun, not Keith Osik, is the Jays backup catcher in AAA.

Surprised nobody called me on that.

My one thought about Skydome: it will be better once the roof is open and the weather is warm; everyone perks up then. Okay, two thoughts: if the crowd is quiet these days, can you really blame them?

My one thought on the Jays being 3-11: this totally sucks. But there's nothing to be done except ride it out. It's like a toothache: it'll hurt like hell for awhile, but when it's out, you'll soon forget what it was like. This team has a six-game winning streak in its very near future.

"First, Cdns. are by and large too self-conscious to cheer, and second they don't really know how to cheer at ballgames. Maybe not Cdn.s 'cause Mtl'ers have fun, but Torontonians at least." - JKCL

nuh-uh, ever been to a Raptors playoff game (or any game late in the season, really...well, one of the seasons where they were in playoff contention)? the noise level is stunning, akin to standing next to the left monitor at a My Morning Jacket concert (of which I've first-hand knowledge). Not only that, the upper levels are packed with rowdy yet extremely knowledgeable fans. The problem at Skydome is threefold: the acoustics are atrocious (as anyone who's ever had the "pleasure" of watching a Raptors game there can attest to), the ushers are just silly (I've actually seen them attempting to quiet DOWN rambunctious teens...smart, really smart), and the fanbase is dwindling.

I'll be the first to admit Torontonians sit on their hands but I'll be the last to complain about it. Like Rusty, I just want a baseball game, not the guy infront of me making me bob back and forth so he can blow his oversized...horn. That said, I wouldn't complain about noise as long as I don't have to crane my neck any further than the horribly angled SkyDome seats require.

...I guess I'm feeling bitter today.

Example: You could get Ace and Gary to bungee jump off the catwalk every time the Jays hit a HR.

Either you mean Ace and Diamond, or you're really on to something.

I think that a problem with cheering at the Dome is the music... anytime you start to get cheering you get drowned out by the P.A... music is ok, but it should be quieter.

one time the "music" broke, it took the fans about 2 innings to figure it out, but then they started to provide their own noise.

Dunedin didn't have music and it DID have a lot of Canadians, AND the Jays got booted regularly there too.. but there was till cheering!

my 2 cents

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=7&season=2004&seasonType=2&split=81&sortOrder=true&sortColumn=fieldingPct
It's early days yet, but Hinske's zone rating so far is about the same as last year (actually a little bit lower). COMN.

But, as Robert Dudek's comments suggested, Eric Munson's defence is indeed horrible, and that has not stopped the mighty Tigers yet.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/current/standings.html
The Jays apparently should have a slightly better record (a win or two more) than they have (COMN)

Dave Till and I went, with a few others, to the Mike Maroth 20th loss game last year. We were VERY vocal (and had a blast) - and didn't really care about the strange looks we were getting from people around us (most people have no sense of history).

Yes, that was fun! We booed very loudly when Trammell came out to take Maroth out of the game, and went nuts when the Jays got the final outs of the game to preserve Maroth's 20th loss.

We scored good seats for the game - so good that Tiger GM Dave Dombrowski was seated just to my right. Not surprisingly, he looked like a man whose dog had just died.

Why don't the Jays keep the upper sections closed, even on two dollar tuesdays. It would keep people closer together, foster a spirit of community and create a lot more noise. One of the great parts of a game experience is listening to crowd interactions and player insults.

Grass would be great too (though it'll never happen).

One of the big problems I find with Skydome is that they completely overuse their crappy sound effects library. A many a good 'Let's Go Blue Jays' have been wasted because of a crappy, poorly timed Addams Family Theme Song clap...

I for one always make noise and heckle players during games. I love the reaction I get and most people in Toronto enjoy a good heckler if they're creative about it... My favourite game was sitting on the third base line and Phil Cuzzi was unlucky enough to have me meters away from him. Another favourite is Manny. That guy will actually give kudos to a good heckle.

Only once have I had a problem at Skydome with my cheering and that was when a husband/wife duo decided they wanted to fight me if I didn't shut up... the other people in my section thought it was hilarious when I redirected a heckle or two at the couple instead of at Manny... This couple had the nerve to not only tell me shut up but also used a few swears which upset most of the parents in our section. The key to any good heckling is to avoid swears and to keep them clever... However, I am still partial to the good ol' Nomar... Nomar... Nomar... You Suck! chant.

I also have my drum and I'm ready to use it if given the opportunity but I think that's lookin' a little grim. Perhaps I should lift the curse I put on Skydome due to their no drum policy.

Nice to see im not alone with the concern over lack of noise, aside from you great fans even doc had some things to say

"Obviously, Boston and New York have home-field advantages," said Halladay, who was outdueled by Martinez. "I think we've always won here, but it's tough when things are dead to climb back into it. But that's something we've got to do. We can't rely on our fans to get us through it."

You heard it from the man himself, our sucky support is bringing them down. They SHOULD be able to rely on us to give them some support.

Where do i find out more about this Cheer Club thing? Im very intrigued.

Getting back to Earl Weaver. What was the story on him and Belanger? I checked, and by the time Belanger was in his late 30s, he was horrid both offensively and defensively, yet Earl kept him on for several years. Loyal to a fault?

No, Belanger was still an outstanding defender until his late 30s AFAIK. I'll check out his defensive win shares when I get the chance.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Droppings, the drum situation is not grim, it is excellent. Trust me. Just wait.

Jobu: click on my name for the Cheer Club site.

JKCL: I appreciate you not writing your letter. I will respectfully disagree with you about the horns -- I think they're every bit as much fun as a yay or boo. And while I prefer to cheer, with my busted up throat I'm pretty limited in what I can do. But it's all about timing, too: just as you don't cheer "yay" randomly in the middle of a play, you don't randomly blow your horn.

Actually, what I think you're hearing on the broadcast is the call-and-response across the upper deck of the Dome that goes on when things get slow. So it's not one guy blowing it over and over, it's guys on opposite sides hailing each other and tooting back. It's kind of funny to hear it in person.

Do you find the hockey goal horn bothersome?

Cheer Club has declared Monday, May 3rd Incredible Noise Night. Who's coming with me? Drop me a line at aaron@bluejayscheerclub.com . I should be rehabbed enough by then to leave the horn at home, which I would certainly do if you were coming out, JKCL. Whaddaya say? Every game you come out to, I will leave the horn at home.

Example: You could get Ace and Gary to bungee jump off the catwalk every time the Jays hit a HR.

Either you mean Ace and Diamond, or you're really on to something.

I hear Ace and Gary will be making an appearance during pride week ;)

I don't want to interfere with your fanship, so I won't write the team. But you should know that while constantly blowing a plastic horn is an easy way to make loud noise, it is not an inspiring noise, a cheering one, a witty one, or a pleasant one in any way. That constant drone simply makes a flat loud empty noise. It literally ruins the broadcasts

Keep in mind that you're hearing the horn because nobody else is making noise. If fans were cheering and clapping, you wouldn't even notice it was there. The constant horn noise you hear on the broadcasts is the symptom, not the disease.

I agree with you, though, that broadcasts sound awful with the all the SILENCE SILENCE HORN SILENCE SILENCE HORN. My girlfriend requested I change the channel Wednesday night because, in her words, "this is the most boring thing I've ever heard".

Hank, how much are the seats you're going to buy on the 3rd?

Okay, maybe somebody can answer this for me, cause I've been trying to wrap my head around it. How the heck did Mike Mussina deserve a gold glove last year?

Compare him to Halladay, listed by: games, PO, A, E, DP, F%, LgFld%, RnF, IP. Sorry, I don't know how to do columns :(

Mussina: 31 - 14 - 35 - 0 - 2 - 1.000 - 0.957 - 2.05 - 214.7
Halladay: 36 - 23 - 51 - 1 - 5 - 0.987 - 0.957 - 2.50 - 266.0

So Doc appears in more games, more innings, makes more attempts, turns more double plays, while making only one more error, with equal better adjusted fielding percentage and better range, and the Moose gets it? Enlighten me as to why please :)

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
Hey, JKCL, that's not that long from now. Bad news is that I'm at a conference in Montreal that weekend.

Who wants to lead the Cheer Club while JKCL is in town?

Paul: I think the seats will be cheapies. Drop me a line at aaron@bluejayscheerclub.com and I'll stick you on the mailing list for when the details are worked out. It's all about where they will let us sit with the drum.

I'd love to, but I'll be in Banff that weekend.

Where is Andrew Edwards when you need him?