1000 K's as a Blue Jay? Just as a WAG, how about Stieb, Clancy, and Guzman?

If I don't post tomorrow or the next day, it's because I stuck my head in the oven and lit a match. Don't let me down Pat.

Hey cool! Looking at BBRef now, I think I was right. I never get these.

Give that man a no-prize!

Wow, it really surprised me that Jimmy Key never got to 1000 K's as a Jay. He fell 56 K's short. I know he was never a huge strikeout pitcher but I'm still surprised.

almost certainly the most popular pitcher in franchise history

Not living in TO, whatthehelldoIknow, but I would've guessed Jimmy Key for that title.

Did his stint in pinstripes taint him THAT much?

I would have said Stieb.

I'd also say Stieb, and don't really think it's all that close!

Lineup changes from Wilner on the FAN:

Pond starts in RF, Myers DH. Cat leads off. "Lefty-heavy"

I'd have to agree with Steib. Though Henke deserves some mention and of course Halladay is off to a good start so far.

Hmmmm. Steib, Halladay, Henke? Sounds to me like TO fans equate "popular" directly with "successful."

No votes for Dave Lemanczyk or Luis Leal?

I'd also say Stieb, and don't really think it's all that close!

Agreed.

http://economics.about.com
I'd also say Stieb, and don't really think it's all that close!

For most popular? He came off as cranky and difficult to a whole lot of people. It was the Canadian lite version of Clemens' relationship with Boston. Mind you, a lot of that bad feeling has evaporated over the last decade or so.

I'd pick Key or Henke for most popular. Heck, at the time I'd say Mark Eichorn was more popular the Steib. He got a louder ovation at the games I saw at the Ex.

Cheers,

Mike

For some reason the guys with "personality" seem to have lasting appeal while low-key guys like Key are forgotten. George Bell is still a hero in the minds of thousands of Jays fans despite his request for the fans to 'kiss his purple ass'.

Sounds to me like TO fans equate "popular" directly with "successful."

Don't most fans? Stieb wasn't actually a part of the World Series teams but he was a major reason for the growing success of the franchise throughout the 80's. I don't think many fans will forget Stieb finally getting his no-hitter after all those close calls.

Does anyone know if the game tonight is available on the internet?

Try CJCS Stratford; scroll down to "Real Audio - Listen Up!"

Good first inning for Hentgen, who hasn't lost to the Tigers since 1995.

3-run homer for Delgado off Bonderman. Cat and Wells come in.

This is more like it.

Pow.

That's better.

Woo-hoo! 3-run jack for Delgado!

"Reed Johnson would sniff at that," said Cheek about the modest 348-foot shot by Carlos.

Myers gets a double on a blooper that sounded like it should have been caught by the tone of Cheek's voice.

Pond up. First MLB at bat. I'm glad to see Tosca got him his major league debut in Toronto. Unfortunately, he strikes out.

Hudson steps in. Hits it up the middle, and Guillen scoops it up and throws Orlando out at first.

3-0 Jays, after 1.

Hentgen hits Rondell on the hand with the second pitch of the inning.

Pena flies out to Catalanatto.

Doug Eddings has words with the Tiger dugout after a called strike. Wilner says Eddings said, "There's up, and there's down, and that pitch was a strike."

Guillen hits it hard past Delgado for a double, and the Tigers have runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out. Apparently it went right past him, and he's going to get an error.

Higginson hits a sac fly, and White comes home. Guillen stays at second.

3-1 now, with two out and Monroe up.

Does anyone know if Hentgen got an especially loud round of applause in the first inning?

On a hockey related note, Nashville is up on the Wings 1-0.

Blah.

3-run homer for Eric Munson off Hentgen following a full-count walk to Craig Monroe.

4-3 Tigers.

No Extra Innings tonight. Too bad. After seeing one more Blue Jays game than I did all of last year, I'm already used to seeing them. How's Hentgen's velocity?

Wilner's words of wisdom, "You can't walk the #8 hitter, who had a .287 on-base percentage last year."

Monroe's both the poster boy for the 2003 and the 2004 Tigers, so far.

Gitz, how is Extra Innings? Is it worth the dough? What'd you get, about 10 games a day?

Try CJCS Stratford; scroll down to "Real Audio - Listen Up!"

Good first inning for Hentgen, who hasn't lost to the Tigers since 1995.


Server is overloaded.

Any other options out there?

jc

http://www.980kruz.ca
Wanna listen to games online? COMN or try...

http://www.980kruz.ca

Ah, it's right on the front page of the Jays MLB site. Toronto listeners can get the game on 610 (the Raptors are on 590).

Jacko, last night someone suggested www.570news.com, which seemed to work.

Thomas, I think Extra Innings is worth the money. You get around 10 games a day, although FOX has blacked out certain Saturdays where no games will be televised, which is not so bad. May be a good chance to get out for an hour or two.

However, I don't have a 9-5 job, so I'm able to take advantage of all the day games, and there are usually quite a few for Wednesday/Thursday getaway days. If you live on the East Coast, you'll also get home in time for work to catch all the 7 o'clock games (4 out here, of course). But then you'll be up late for the 10 o'clock starts, etc. etc. On balance, though, yeah, I'd get the package even if I had an office job. It rocks.

Boston up 7-0. Scored all 7 runs with 2 out in the 2nd inning off Kurt Ainsworth.

Cat bobbled one in left, which led to the fifth Tiger run as Guillen beat the throw to the plate. The crowd sounds restless; not sure if they're booing the Jays' second error of the night or the call at the plate. 5-3 Detroit, middle of the fourth.

Myers flies out. Pond k's. Hudson k's. Bonderman is making it look easy.

11 straight retired by Bonderman, 7 K's already (through the fourth).

What you might be hearing Coach is me booing all the way from Vancouver. Poor fielding, poor pitching and poor approaches to plate appearances should result in booing. Losing will happen even if you're playing well. The Jays are not playing well.

Hentgen hangs a curveball and White drills it over the fence. He's killing us.

Gentlemen,

Is this game being televised? Surely the people of Toronto would prefer watching this as opposed to Toronto Roadrunners AHL action...Third rate pro hockey over baseball? This saddens me...

Xander

Rondell White goes deep, it's 6-3 and the unthinkable is happening. I'm glad someone didn't ask me before the series for 100-1 odds on a Tiger sweep; I would have made that bet without a second thought.

He being Rondell "5 for 10 with 2 HR" White, not Hentgen.

Time to get those runs back.

Woody walks. Cluck visits the mound with Cash coming up. Can't imagine why. Lo and behold, he hits into a double play. Cat flies out.

JP will on the postgame show every Wednesday.....and then my connection cut out. Can anyone finish what Wilner was saying?

Ahh... my connection cut out too. Most of the time he'll be on to answer calls for an hour... and that's when mine cut out.

He just said that most of the time JP will be on for an hour and will take calls, but that won't be the case tonight or next Wednesday as they are having some "technical difficulties."

Same problem here at the exact same moment. Hopefully this was just a technical glitch and not MLB catching onto CJCS's activities.

Good news, it seems to be working again.

It's working again. You may have to hit the play button on Real Player a few times before you're able to find an available stream.

This looks to be our first case of Duelling Ryans.

The game isn't on TV, even in Detroit. Not sure if any video highlights will be available afterwards.

Rogers is carrying the Clemens/Bonds game (ESPN2 broadcast) on Channel 426 (Extra Innings channel).

Wells smashes one up the middle and the ball hits Bonderman in the leg and bounces away. Wells reaches first, and Bonderman goes down hard and is grimacing.

Bonderman tries to stay in the game, but the Tigers had Coyler warming up anyway, and they go to the lefty to face Delgado.

Maybe this is the break (unfortunate as it may be) that we need.

Is Polanco ever on fire tonight...

So far through 5:

H/AB R RBI SB AVG OBP SLG

3/3 2 0 0 1.000 1.000 1.667

PS. I say we terminate Munson. Whose with me?

Yeah, my BBFL team showed up tonight -- Polanco, Delgado, Damon, and Johnny Estrada, who has 2 hits and 2 RBI in a nine-run (so far) inning for Atlanta, as the wheels suddenly fell off Steve Trachsel.

The Braves ended up with an 11-spot in the fourth. Elsewhere, Roger Clemens has 9 Ks (including Bonds twice) and a 1-hitter going through seven.

There's not much to say about the Jays game. Ligtenberg is on to get some work; he's the nominal closer but as we all know, hasn't been needed yet.

Ouch. Double ouch.

J.P. will be on with Wilner shortly.

Folks, there ain't nowhere to go after this but up. Not that that will be particularly easy against this weekend's opponent. On the other hand, after getting swept at home by the Yankees last April, the Jays then swept the Twins in Minneapolis. Let's hope history repeats itself a little more favourably....

JKCL, don't hurt yourself falling off the bandwagon. Some of us are on this ride for the long haul, and aware that there are bumps in the road.

Technical difficulties prohibited phone calls tonight, but fantastic work by Wilner to arrange this regular postgame feature on Wednesdays all season. Selected Ricciardi quotes:

"We just didn't play well. Guys are trying to do too much at the plate."

"We forget how young we are. A veteran knows how to handle a bit of excitement."

"Since I've been here, our Aprils have been terrible. I don't really mind if we get off to a slow start, as long as we finish strong."

"All the guys the Tigers got played well for them; they just came in, played relaxed and had fun."

J.P. really likes his bullpen, saying Justin Speier has "big onions," and will continue to get work in tight spots. "In the American League, you can close a game out in the fifth inning."

Wilner asked him about the kids, and Ricciardi said Rios, Gross and "maybe" Quiroz are the closest to being called up. He was cautiously optimistic about his young pitching.

"This will be a big year in telling us which direction these guys will go. I don't think we have any Hudsons, Mulders or Zitos coming, but we have some bullpen help and some decent starters."

The J.P. line that sums up my feelings exactly? "I'm too old to cry, and it hurts too much to laugh."

I'm thrilled Wilner's getting so much air time this year. He's really come around with his on-air presence that just didn't seem to be there in the past.

I don't think we have any Hudsons, Mulders or Zitos coming

If Dustin McGowan doesn't end up as good as any of those three, I'll be very surprised. Nonetheless, I recognize that JP is simply keeping expectations in check, as he should.

I was at the game. And the opener. It's a cliche and I almost hate saying it, but it looks like the Jays just don't care. They have so many terrible ABs. Unfortunately, I don't think this will change much this year because the Jays have too many dead spots in the lineup. Kevin Cash might be the worst hitter in baseball right now. Not only does he always get out, he looks horrible all the time. Feeble strikeouts, double plays, and weak groundouts. His GDP to EBH career is 7-3. I'm no scout, but I would take all odds that this guy will never be more than a defensive backup. He looks feeble. Woodward, Hudson, and Johnson are all fairly poor hitters for their positions as well. The Jays just look horrible right now. As I said earlier, they had so many terrible ABs in the 3 game series. Swinging on the first pitch at stuff out of the zone, chasing balls, failing to make contact when needed and so on.

Just some random thoughts

My sons and I went to Opening Day - disappointed, but enjoyed being there.

The next two games have been just about as frustrating as anything I remember since I started following the Jays in '77.

It can only get better from here - my gut feel is that the Jays just didn't take this series seriously. I'm still confident that the Jays will win 85-90 games.

But given the general improvement in the AL, which will likely result in much closer standings in the AL East and West, wouldn't it be awful if the Jays finish the season 2 games back of the Yankees for the Wild Card?

For the very first time in my life, I feel I can say this with absolute certainty:
It can't possibly get any worse.

Kent, thanks for the post-game Ricciardi run down -- this time of year i'm lucky enough to catch the games let alone have the time to take in the various media outlet perks...supposedly JP was going to be on Rome today...anyone hear? If Ricciardi is viewing Justin McGowan as a "decent starter", he's perhaps more bummed out by the three loses to the Detroit Tigers than the fans are. Who wouldn't love to hear his actual feelings on the last three days? Finshing the season out strong is great, but when you look back and see you were swept once by the Tigers, that just sucks no matter when it happened. Bring on Boston...time to dig a bigger hole or get the heck out of one.

Something my father always says: "You're never as bad as you look when you're going bad, and you're never as good as you look when you're going good."

At least the Jays catch a break now and get to play Boston, who should be a pushover after the Tigers.

J.P. really likes his bullpen, saying Justin Speier has "big onions," and will continue to get work in tight spots. "In the American League, you can close a game out in the fifth inning."

I like this sentiment quite a bit, because I like Speier quite a bit, and this bullpen overall has the looks of being one of the top three in the AL. That's not hyperbolic wishful thinking, it's an honest assessment.

And the Jays don't need to have any Hudson, Mulders, or Zitos around. After all, only one team has that complement. The Jays already have a Halladay and a Batista, so if one or two of their arms can be, say, Woody Williams (Cards version), that'll do. Granted, this won't help short term -- but patience will.

Or the heck with it: J.P. picks up the phone in December, calls Mr. Beane, dangles Josh Phelps, McGowan, and Gross, and winds up with his own Mulder, Hudson, or Zito.

Ah, some good news. Extra Innings has all three of the weekend's Red Sox/Jays series. Looks like I picked the wrong week to find a life.

Or the heck with it: J.P. picks up the phone in December, calls Mr. Beane, dangles Josh Phelps, McGowan, and Gross, and winds up with his own Mulder, Hudson, or Zito.

Umm. I'm assuming Beane or anyone does that deal. That's a lot of talent, especially for dudes so close to free-agency...but I get what you're going after.

For the very first time in my life, I feel I can say this with absolute certainty:
It can't possibly get any worse.

Three Minnesota Twins were injured in a single game yesterday. Another Twin went down today. It could get a whole lot worse.

I missed the game, and reading through this thread I can't help but wonder if several of you have wandered over from Leafs Nation... y'all gotta chill.

http://me.woot.net
I'm on the train on the way home feom the game presently. Some thoughts:

The crowd was small tonight, but those who were there cheered when Hentgen was announced and when he took the field. He also got a nice round of applause as he was taken out in favour of de los Santos.

The "error" by Catalanotto was two things: poor umpiring and poor scoring. Yes, Frank bobbled the ball. The throw still beat the runner by at least two steps, and was right on the money. Cash applied the tag, too (although of course there were no video replays). The booing was for the call, as it was clear that Cat had done his job.

There were no cameras filming today, aside from the usual Skydome cameras for the JumboTron. Even the centre-field camera went unmanned. Don't expect many video highlights.

I am not nearly as pessimistic about the '04 Jays as many people seem to be. I've been to both games after the opener, and nobody can accuse the games of being boring. The Jays will not always win, but when they don't you're still seeing good baseball.

That being said, maybe it's easier to be pessimistic when one's impression is coloured by those doing the reporting. Sitting in a seat high above the players forces you to see with your eyes and make up your own mind; Wilner is a good guy, but I know he's been frustrated with the losses and it's probably been coming through in his shows.

Also, I know I tend to flip around the dial when the Jays are losing, but when you're there in person no such ability exists.

What I think I'm trying to say is that this is a long season, and there's no reason to believe that the wheels have fallen off just because the first three games have been losses. Much better things than just last year's result have happened after much worse starts than this one. Be happy that your favourite sport is back and enjoy it while it's here. Before you know it we'll be stuck back in that interminable purgatory they call "the offseason."

I don't know if I've ever felt more frustrated and pessimistic about the franchise.

These are the times that try men's souls.

I sympathize with you, JKCL; it's tough to have all the enthusiasm drained out of you so quickly. But I don't see any reason at all for pessimism over the long term, not yet. I too often get swept away in the moment (Matthew's father has it nailed) but it's only your imagination running off with you.

If this persists through into May, we'll call you a prophet. For now, to quote Douglas Adams:

DON'T PANIC!

I'd be thrilled if McGowan turns into Ben Sheets, or as Gitz said, Woody Williams, never mind MHZ. Expecting any 22 year old AA pitcher (not named Prior or Clemens) to turn into an ace is never a good bet.

JP & co. keep preaching about consistency on the field but as long as the Jays are a young team they're going to have some very high highs, and some very low lows. In a week or two from now when the team gets hot everyone will be writing in wondering where they can purchase their playoff tickets. Then things will turn downhill for a while and the whole cycle begins again. What matters is how it all balances out in the end. Enjoy the ride. And if there are times you can't take it, take a break, go out and enjoy some of the other marvelous things the city and the season have to offer.

The great thing about baseball is that there is another game on another day. In 48 hours you may be feeling great about this team.

http://www.shoprogers.com/store/cable/cablecontent/cable_nhlnfl_blackouts.asp
Just to weigh in on MLB Extra Innings, I got it on Monday and already I can say it's really awesome. If you have Digital Cable or Satellite I don't think you'll regret it. It's great to see all the west coast games and there is always something on.

I got it for $22.50 a month, as part of the Rogers Super Sports Pack (regular $25, but I'm already giving Rogers so much money they give me a discount out of mercy), which is pretty darn reasonable (less than 2 movies). There is a 4-month commitment.

The only caveat is you are not going to see any extra Blue Jays or Expos games (if you're in Canada) since all of Canada is considered the "home territory" for those teams. Copying and pasting from the Rogers site (COMN):

Toronto Blue Jays and Montreal Expos games will not be available on MLB Extra Innings, as Canada constitutes their 'home territory'; they should be available through your local sports broadcaster such as Rogers Sportsnet. In addition Headline Sports (The Score) has exclusive Canadian broadcast rights to all Major League Baseball games starting after 5 p.m. (EST) on Wednesday and Sunday nights. Therefore Major League Baseball games will not be available with the MLB Extra Innings package after 5 p.m. (EST) on Wednesday and Sunday nights. The only games available on Wednesday and Sunday nights will be on Headline Sports, your local regional sports network or your over-the-air channel.

I don't think the part about Wednesday nights is exactly accurate though, since there were about 8-10 games on tonight.

Well hmph. I think Hentgen summed things up nicely in a post game interview:

"I know this first series didn't go the way we planned, but we're a bunch of grinders and we're going to win"

I think I would have added a not REMOTELY the way we planned. But the Jays were an 86 win club with a horrible record against the 2003 Devil Rays. And from what we've seen so far the 2004 Tigers look better than the '03 Rays.

It is hard not to be frustrated (I'm glad I thought better of posting something angry during the 9th inning or shortly after the game), cause I am, but I'm gonna play the cheesy optimist-It's not the last time the Jays'll be swept this year (yes, it hurts more cause it's the Tigers), and this is still a promising team who will have better AB's, defense, and pitching on most days compared to what we've seen.

This stings a tad to say after 3 games with the Tigers, but the Jays could use tomorrow's day off.

I was at the game. Actually I was in attendance for all three games of this series - here are some of my observations.

1) The Tigers capitalized on nearly every Jays defensive misplay. Poor Carlos had a hard hit ball go through the wickets, grazing the bottom of his glove. If not for that, the Jays may have held on for a 3-2 win in game 3. Give credit to the Tigers, who, apart from Munson's defensive misadventures in the first two games (he was the DH tonight), did not make mistakes.

2) Bonderman had nasty stuff, but the last batter he faced was Vernon Wells and he lined one off the pitcher's ankle for an infield single. That ankle may stiffen up and it could affect Bonderman's mechanics in his next start assuming he isn't put on the DL.

3) I did not care for the umpiring crew. In all three games Jays batters were called out of strikes on check swings by the home plate umpire - 5 times in all. Two plays at the plate with the ball beating the runner easily went in the Tigers' favour - Hinske's slide in game #2 (he was safe, but called out) and the play off Cat's throw (Cash was waiting for the runner, who slid to the inside).

4) Hentgen's fastball in th first inning was clocked at 84-85, but the scoreboard provided no further readings. He pitched well, apart from the Munson homerun and the two batters he plunked. Rondell White's homerun barely made it out. There were some hard hit balls to centre; Vernon was well-positioned to make easy grabs.

5) Woodward and Hudson are good hitters for their positions. I still haven't seen any evidence that Hudson can hit lefties. Cash will probably hit .220 this year and he did hit one ball extremely hard this series. It will take a lot more than a couple of games for me to conclude that he's the worst hitter in the majors.

On a lighter note...

Tonight I received what was - as far as I can recall - the first award of my life.

At a ceremony at a seedy bar in downtown Fredericton, I was presented with the following award (as voted on by my classmates - class of 2004):

"Most Likely to Wake Up at 6 a.m. to Watch a Baseball Game"

A proud moment, to be sure.

My guess - and it's just a guess - is that the Jays have been trying too hard in this series. They've been committing errors, and leaving men stranded with runners in scoring position, etc., etc. They've also been unlucky: the Tigers - give them credit - have been capitalizing on every mistake.

As long as the team doesn't get down on themselves, they'll bounce back. Getting out of town will help - the Jays seem to always be more "themselves" on the road, and should do better in Fenway.

The worst-case scenario is that they drop into a long funk. If they don't break their losing streak soon, that could happen.

JP was interesting on the Fan last night. He talked about how distracting it is for young players to come home for their first homestand. They have to get settled, they have various functions to attend, there is the pomp and ceremony of opening day, so they tend to get too pumped up and try to hit the five run home run. Then he added that he did not want to make any excuses.

Mark, that extra innings message is dated. The Score don't have exclusive rights any more so Wednesdays are wide open. The only question is Saturday afternoons when Fox has rights. But Canada shows different games than the US, so some games that are blacked out in Canada could be on in the US and vice versa.

I also learned years ago that you have to give a team 40 games to make a call on how they will do this year. 10, 20 or 3 games are too few.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
I was working late last night and showed up at the Dome around 8:30, just in time to see Hentgen leave the game, so I also missed all of the scoring.

I have to say this: the bullpen this year has looked really, really good. I thought de los Santos, Adams and Lightenberg all looked great last night, especially de los Santos. Had the game started when I came in, I would have thought I was at a great game. Unfortunately, I showed up when it was already 6-3 for the Tigers.

One of the joys of the particular species known as the Toronto Sports Fan is their quickness to leap to conclusions of doom and gloom. I myself am often guilty of this. But I'm cutting the Jays a really a lot of slack here for a couple of reasons: First, they showed us last year that they can launch a murderous offensive attack when given the opportunity. The lineup is not much different when it comes to that, and I believe that they still can. And second, they've improved so much in the one area that kept killing them last year, which was the bullpen.

And let's face it, the Tigers were primed by a season so epically hideous last year to come out of the gate and kick some ass this year.

So what hurt the Jays in this series with the Tigers? Well, their starters didn't have great outings, and there were a number of defensive miscues. Will defensive miscues continue to be on the menu? Probably. They were last year. Will our starters continue to underperform? I don't believe that for a second. Will Thin Carlos continue to bat .100? I don't believe that, either.

The Jays are a strong team, and I believe in them.

Thx Gerry good to know. I figured it couldn't be accurate because I hadn't seen anything on The Score, but I was still a little concerned at first.

Hi fellas. Love the site.

As a Tiger fan, I'd just like to say nice try.

: )

P.S.: Ask the Twinkies, these are not your 2003 Tigers.