Can someone explain what a 'Super 2' is for arbitration purposes?

http://mothershipconnection.blogspot.com/
I just can't wait to crash all tomorrow's parties..

Super 2 is a category of players who are eligible for arbitration after two seasons (one year earlier than normal) and are eligible for arbitration for another 3 years after that for a total of 4 arbitration years. To qualify for "Super 2" a player must have at least two full seasons in the majors but less than three. The top %17 of all players in this category (measured by service time only) are granted "Super 2" status. Usually the cutoff is roughly 2 years and 130+ days of time on the roster.

http://economics.about.com
I just can't wait to crash all tomorrow's parties..

I thought this one was really hard. Good catch. :)

Cheers,

Mike

Thanks for the info. If Rios or Gross were to be called up in June then it would be likely that they could not become Super 2's if they stayed in the majors from that point on? ie they would have less than 130 days in 2004. I'm just trying to get an idea at which point does JP become less reluctant to call up a top prospect if he thinks that the prospect still has 3 full years before arbitration.

http://economics.about.com
Thanks for the info. If Rios or Gross were to be called up in June then it would be likely that they could not become Super 2's if they stayed in the majors from that point on? ie they would have less than 130 days in 2004. I'm just trying to get an idea at which point does JP become less reluctant to call up a top prospect if he thinks that the prospect still has 3 full years before arbitration.

I believe it tends to be around May 15th-20th, but I'm not 100% sure.

Cheers,

Mike

I'm curious about one aspect of service time rules. Let's suppose the Jays call up Gross May 1 because of injuries and send him down again on May 20, and then call him up again on August 1. Does service time run from May 1 to the end of year or does it exclude the period when he's back in the minors from May 20-July 31?

Ryan01, I believe this is your department.

Mid-may sounds about right for the cutoff. Of course keep in mind that it changes every year depending on the players involved. Waiting until June is probably the safest thing to do.

Mike, service time is only counted as the time spent on the major league (25 man) roster (also includes time in September. So in that scenario Gross' service time would only be the 20 days in may plus the 60 days from August 1 onwards.

http://economics.about.com
I'm curious about one aspect of service time rules. Let's suppose the Jays call up Gross May 1 because of injuries and send him down again on May 20, and then call him up again on August 1. Does service time run from May 1 to the end of year or does it exclude the period when he's back in the minors from May 20-July 31?

I believe if he's optioned down for less than 20 days, it still counts as major league service time, but if it's for more than 20 days, it isn't. From Doug Pappas:

Options: Seasons in which a player is optioned to the minors for fewer than 20 days won't count against the maximum number of seasons in which a player may be optioned; in return, players receive major league service time for the period of such assignments.

Cheers,

Mike

Service time is only time spent on the active roster or the DL. Gross would have 20 days service time, plus 31 days in August, plus 30 in September or what have you (29 if the season ends on the 29th, etc.), for a total of 81 days of service time.

A full year of service time is 180 days.

oops... accidently left out half a sentence there. Should be:
(also includes time on the major league roster in September when the rosters expand).

Ryan is correct, by th way, about the short options.

Why would trading Werth be a sign that the Jays are not serious about competing? This is a rhetorical question of course.

Mike was actually the one who pointed out the short options, but I concur, he is correct. It's the same thing with rehab assignments. All time spent on a rehab stint, if less than 20 days, still counts as major league service time.

Anyone know if there is a site that lists service time?? Thanks...

Marty York on Sportsnet News had the Jays turning down the Dodgers offer of Hideo Nomo before settling on yesterdays trade. He had a nice Expos trade rumour (nice if they can pull it off) Endy Chavez for Ben Howard.

For Blue Jays players, the best source I know of for major league service time is their media guide, available in PDF form here.

Marty York on Sportsnet News had the Jays turning down the Dodgers offer of Hideo Nomo before settling on yesterdays trade.

Yeah, a 37-year-old pitcher coming off shoulder surgery, making $8 million, who's been torched all spring. Nomo's a huge talent, no question, but at that price I wouldn't want him.

Anything the Expos can get for Endy Chavez, they GOTTA take that to the bank. Ben Howard has some talent, to boot. Chavez has potential, yes, but he was just completely awful last year, failing to hit a lick in the league's best hitting environment.

Thanks everyone. With that in mind, I'm hoping that should there be injuries to any of the OFs that require a DL visit earlier than June, Gross would be called up, rather than using Hermansen/Pond.

http://bluejayscheerclub.com
We watched about forty minutes of the replay of the Yankees vs. the D-Rays last night.

Was I the only person who thought A-Rod looked a little slow at third?

Maybe it was all the gold bars in his pockets slowing him down.

And on that note, the three games at the end of July vs. the Yankees are not premium games. Anyone want to get prime third base heckling seats with me? Come on, A-Rod and Jeter together within earshot -- it's like two for one.

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/sd/news/sd_news.jsp?ymd=20040330&content_id=673143&vkey=spt2004news&fext=.jsp
I doubt the Padres are interested in Endy Chavez after acquiring Kerry Robinson from St. Louis (and giving up much less than Ben Howard). COMN

Guys, first off I love the site. Just found it a couple weeks back and have been reading more and more of it every day.

One thing of note in today's clips that hasn't been mentioned is that there is a chance they may acquire another bullpen arm and end up optioning Lopez. What's going on with him? I've noticed some pretty awful outing of late but not many articles have touched on what the Jays are thinking is wrong. Anyone have any other info?

http://aaronreynolds.ca/gallery/Jays
I was getting into the spirit of the new season and made some Jays new logo desktops, just simple -- the logo on white. COMN if you want to grab 'em.

FYI--Boston media reporting that Nomar will miss the first month of the season with a sore achilles tendon. That means Toronto will miss both Nixon and Nomar for the six games they play the sox in April.

Simon Pond is a great story. Two years ago he was sharing First Base with Jossephang Bernhardt (Mr.$750,000 16-yr old Bonus)and now Pond is in the show while Bernhardt is out of baseball.

I was always a Bernhardt fan (He played two years for our St. Catherines Stompers) and when I would read the Dunedin box scores in 2004 I would always say to myself, "who is this guy taking time away from Bernhardt at 1B and at 3B?" This spring I learned, and I wish him much success!

I'm guessing they'll face Ellis Burks in place of Nixon and maybe Bellhorn (playing second, Reese to short) in place of Garciaparra.

Sorry, I made a typo--my last comment should say "2002" instead of "2004".

Thanks, Chris, and welcome to our Peņa.

Lopez came into camp knowing he had a job, whether it was the eighth or ninth inning, with an agenda to work on new pitches, notably a split-finger, and new wrinkles to his existing stuff. The idea was to become more effective vs. lefty batters. Somewhere in that process, he's lost his usual groove with the fastball and slider. It's premature to assume he won't be able to find it by the time the games matter, but it's about time to shelve the "improvements" and go back to what's always worked for him.

What I might do is use him in the sixth or seventh, against mostly righthanded hitters, for his first few appearances. Ligtenberg, whose slight modifications to his slider seem to be working well, can be reserved for the later innings until Aquilino gets sorted out.

I suppose it's possible that he has some minor aches and pains, but I haven't heard a word to that effect, and I don't think he would have been used in back-to-back games this week if there was any health concern.

Chris, you will enjoy this site. In my opinion, this is, by far, the best Blue Jays site online. The creators of the site work very hard and the contributors are experts on baseball, in general, and the Jays, in particular.

why bother commenting on Griffin at all?

why not just ignore the MEDIOT!

MEDIOT..an old George Bell term!

http://economics.about.com
why bother commenting on Griffin at all?

Because he occasionally makes a good point. The Batter's Box should be for *all* baseball fans, including ones who are slow to get on the JP/Keith Law bandwagon, and many of those people enjoy reading Griffin. Heck, even I disagree with the front office from time to time. :)

Cheers,

Mike

FYI--Boston media reporting that Nomar will miss the first month of the season with a sore achilles tendon. That means Toronto will miss both Nixon and Nomar for the six games they play the sox in April.

Far more impactful, and worth keeping track of, is Pedro's arm:

From today's Boston Herald:

The right-hander's velocity was subpar once again (scouts had his fastball in the 87-90 mph range) and his command was spotty...

http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2715
Steven Goldman has a great (free) piece over at Baseball Prospectus (COMN) with a paragraph summary of every team in the Majors. If you know Goldman's stuff you'll know it's well worth reading.

Here is his take on the Jays:

'Deeper than the Marianas Trench in outfielders and catchers, but the pitching remains conceptual. If the Jays deal with problems aggressively, upgrading with a Rios, Gross, or McGowan no later than the exact moment they're ready, they'll still be standing when injuries have done in the Yankees. McGowan is the real key.'

According to Lee Sinins in the ATM Reports the Expos have signed Tanyon Sturtze to a minor league contract.

Maybe we'll see him in Puerto Rico?! Or (heaven forbid) at the Jays-Expos game I'm taking my sons to on June 26.

I thought Sturtze just signed with the Marlins a day or two ago?

Norm, please, for all that is holy, stop repeating this every week.

According to MLB.com scoreboard, Jays and Reds tied at 0 through 5 innings.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/scores/20040331/torcin
COMN - 4-0 Jays. Jeff Gueil hit a shot off of Jesus in the 7th inning.

How was the scheduled starter today? Royboy?

That would be "who", though "how" actually answers both questions now doesn't it?

the Expos have signed Tanyon Sturtze to a minor league contract.

Yipee, I get to see him get shelled live here in Edmonton rather than on TV.

EddieZosky: Chris Baker started for the Jays. It was Halladay's turn, but they had him throw the minor league game instead because they didn't want to risk him going up to bat in the NL park.

http://economics.about.com
COMN - 4-0 Jays. Jeff Gueil hit a shot off of Jesus in the 7th inning.

I hope for Reds fan's sake that he doesn't become the closer. I don't know how many "Jesus Saves" headlines I could put up with. :)

And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire Jude 1:23 (KJV)

Cheers,

Mike

they had him throw the minor league game instead

I'm sure the AA guys were pleased to show up expecting Chris Baker and winding up digging in against the Cy Young Award winner.

According to a report on the FAN, Halladay pitched a complete game against the Yankees' minor leaguers, 107 pitches and 10 strikeouts.

I'm sure the AA guys were pleased to show up expecting Chris Baker and winding up digging in against the Cy Young Award winner.

Sounds like Chris Baker stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Kevin Gray, at the Union-Leader, updates us on some of the likely arms in the New Hampshire rotation. He also does a nice job on the Pond story.

Game's finished, 5-1 for the Good Guys. Hermanson must have been happy that the Jays dispensed of Werth and collected 2 hits. Most impressive however, the game took 2:18 to play! If they could do that at every ML game baseball might win back a few fans (I realize this game wasn't televised).

Chris Baker Rp was pitcher of the yr in the Southern League at Tennessee with a 15-6 3.37 era. Baker was drafted in 1999 in the 28th round and was put on the Major League roster in 01 after his fine season in Tennessee. Baker suffered thru some arm problems and took awhile to recover thru the 02/03 seasons. Baker was part of draft that included, Alex Rios, Matt Ford. DJ Hanson, Brandon Lyon and Reed Johnson in 99.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/shownews.jsp?content=m033129A
Sportsnet has a brief article on Halladay's appearance today (COMN). He threw 8 innings and allowed only 4 hits, 3 of which were by Bernie Williams.

The AP is reporting that Jeriome Robertson (HOU) has been traded to the Indians. (Where's the hijack thread when you need it?)

More hijacks!

TSN has reported that the Jays have picked up Sean Douglass off waivers from the Twins.

Maybe this is the move that will eventually lead to Lopez being sent down to AAA.

Blast! A minute too late.

I'm assuming the Jays aren't forced to put Douglass on the 25-man roster. Can someoe who knows "the rules" clarify this?

http://economics.about.com
The AP is reporting that Jeriome Robertson (HOU) has been traded to the Indians. (Where's the hijack thread when you need it?)

Feel free to use these Roundup threads as Hijack threads. They're for discussing timely baseball news, so what better place?

I'm assuming the Jays aren't forced to put Douglass on the 25-man roster.

I'm not sure about that.. it looks like Douglass might be out of options? Anyone know for sure?

Cheers,

Mike

A little BA homework shows that Douglass was the Baltimore's 6th rated prospect in 2002. Since then he has not rated (although that might be because he then had some Major league time). At that time the said he threw low 90's, slider and change. He projected to be a #3 starter but lacked an out pitch (although I note he has a lot of strikeouts in the minors). He was a second rounder in 1997 taken behind Batimore's previous pick- you guessed it - Jason Werth.

Douglass reminds me of Josh Towers, who didn't throw hard enough to suit Beatagan. Worth a look, for sure. I still think Miller should start for Dunedin once or twice, then work his way up before they activate him. Then they don't have to farm Lopez and can use Douglass as the long man. I'm usually against 12 pitchers, but with concerns about Hentgen and Lopez, it makes more sense. As fifth outfielder, Hermansen wouldn't play much anyway.

Well done, Chris Baker! The Jays' "B" team must have played well behind him. Doc dominating AA hitters is also very good news, though hardly unexpected.

I realize that with these waiver pickups teams are hoping that a change of location or the jolt of being released will get a guy going. Having said that picking up soft tossing right handers to me is a waste of time when we have Baker, Cassidy and Smith in AAA. Is Douglass really that much "better" than these guys who have payed their dues in the Jays system?

This just in... the SkyChiefs are going to be good this year. Adams, Rios, and Quiroz were the offensive stars behind Doc today.

From Fordin's Notes, it sounds as though Douglass is on the 40-man (but not necessarily the 25-man) roster now.

Those who gave me comments on my MBA applications might be pleased to hear that I recently re-took the GMAT, and scored a 99th-percentile 760. I'm really quite happy.

JP may think that he can get Douglass through waivers. If Toronto picked him then all teams with a worse record must have passed on him the first time. It's hard to see him getting picked by a team that finished higher than TO last year.

Having said that, if he's ticketed for Syracuse then I'm with Dean, I don't really see the point. If he's here on a "look see" until Miller can make it back then I guess it makes some sense but I wonder how much action he will see.

My other comment is that trying to recreate the O's starting rotation circa 2001 is hardly the way to call yourself a contender in the AL East in 2004 (or any other year for that matter) :)

http://economics.about.com
Those who gave me comments on my MBA applications might be pleased to hear that I recently re-took the GMAT, and scored a 99th-percentile 760. I'm really quite happy.

Holy crap, dude, as you should be!

You're too smart to be an MBA student. You should consider doing your PhD. You could have me for your advisor. :)

Cheers,

Mike

Nice job, Andrew. I took the GMAT a couple of months ago, myself, and I got a 710 (95% percentile). I made the mistake of checking the "allow us to contact you..." box, and now I get an e-mail/letter a week from U.S. MBA programs. Where are you applying?

Andrew:

Congratulations! I know you must have worked extremely hard for that mark. Good job.

Aged 20 at High-A, Douglass had a K/9 of almost FIFTEEN. Any reason (injury) for his dramatically lower numbers since?

http://economics.about.com
If anyone is interested in either going to Ivey or the field of Management Science, feel free to ask me questions. This will give you an indication of the type of stuff we work on at the management science group at Ivey.

Cheers,

Mike

Jayson Stark's 'Day in the life of the AL East' is worth a read!

Looking at Douglass' numbers I see no reason to expect him to be a useful pitcher. Then again, I've never seen him pitch, so there might be something else going on here. More likely in my mind is that he's being signed to eat innings in AA or AAA, pure and simple.

This will give you an indication of the type of stuff we work on at the management science group at Ivey.

Actually, this picture of an Ivey departmental seminar will give yu a better idea...

Those who gave me comments on my MBA applications might be pleased to hear that I recently re-took the GMAT, and scored a 99th-percentile 760. I'm really quite happy.

Typical Canadian, too smart for those standardized tests.

That's a really great result, though - as is Justin's. Youse guys ain't so dumb!

Thanks for the praise, around. I'm proud and excited.

You're too smart to be an MBA student. You should consider doing your PhD.

[translation] You're too smart to make good money, come seclude yourself in academia, where you can slave away in obscurity. [/translation]

;-)

In all seriousness, it's in the back of my mind, Mike. But I want the MBA first, then some good work experience after it. Then I'll think about the PhD track.

The PhD you can probably get for free*...for the MBA, it'll likely cost you...

*free- free tuition small-to-moderate stipend (at NYU, people in Stern actually have a great deal; outside the business school you're living in a closet eating TopRamen) in exchange for five years of your life, during which you could be making ludicrous money and consuming conspicuously the way everyone else in their twenties does...

http://economics.about.com
[translation] You're too smart to make good money, come seclude yourself in academia, where you can slave away in obscurity. [/translation]

Hahaha.. There's enough jockeying between MBAs and PhDs at work. Didn't think I'd get it at the Box.

But you bring up a good point, though. If you're motivated by money, then a PhD isn't a great idea. This makes it tough for Business Schools to get people into PhD programs, because if you're not motivated by money, you probably have no interest in business schools. So Ivey has been recruiting people from other disciplines like economics and engineering.

Cheers,

Mike

Mike, what's the transition like from undergraduate to graduate studies? I'm heading into a research-based MSc program in transportation economics (assuming I'm accepted)and I really don't feel like my undergrad degree has prepared me very well. Any advice would be great.

http://economics.about.com
Mike, what's the transition like from undergraduate to graduate studies? I'm heading into a research-based MSc program in transportation economics (assuming I'm accepted)and I really don't feel like my undergrad degree has prepared me very well. Any advice would be great.

What's your undergraduate degree in?

I know exactly what you're going through. Most undergraduate programs in North America assume that their students won't progress on to graduate work, so the courses tend to leave you a little unprepared for masters programs.

I'm not too sure what you'll be doing in your MSc, but brushing up on your math and your statistical theory can never hurt.

Feel free to e-mail me anytime at economics.guide@about.com about grad school.

Cheers,

Mike