Congratulations to Mr. Pond. I'm looking forward to his first game winning PH in Toronto and the ensuing, er, Pond-mania. TSN has picked up on him as a feel good story *and* he's Canadian so his first successes could (hopefully) be turned into big news that A) brings positive attention to the team and B) helps raise Pond's confidence level and performance.

A slow day... until I read this:

What moves will Paul DePodesta, the Dodgers' rookie GM, make this year? National League West insiders say they wouldn't be surprised to see DePodesta send Adrian Beltre to the Yankees, who could move Beltre to second base, or to swing a deal with friend J.P. Ricciardi that would put Eric Gagne in a Blue Jays uniform and bring blue-chip prospects to L.A.

Even though it's pure speculation, the thought of Gagne bursting out of the Fighting Jays pen at SkyDome just gave me the chills. How many tickets alone would Gagne sell? Which "blue-chip prospects" would Toronto likely have to part with?

Nothing but hypotheticals of course, butit's a quiet Sunday, right?!

From Mark Zwolinski's Star piece:

Pond's trademark is driving the ball to all fields, something he traced back to Jays' minor league coaches Kerry George and Marty Pevey and minor league hitting instructor Merv Rettenmund.

"They just worked their behinds off throwing batting practice. They threw more batting practice than any team in the league. I've never seen anything like it," Pond said. "Merv talked about slowing it down ... slowing my whole approach down. I've always tried to get my pitch and hammer it, but with his philosophy, I started hitting the ball even harder."

It's a teaching organization from the top down, with Rettenmund and Barnett on the same page. Pond may have "got the message" more than some other players, or derived the most benefit from a change in approach. There has to be some explanation for his improvement.

By saying he's an injury away, J.P. suggests that Simon is the 26th man on the depth chart, the primary backup at 3B, 1B or DH, maybe even LF. It's an assessment that makes sense. With regulars at those positions, plus Berg and Gomez, he'd be primarily a pinch-hitter if he did make the club. It's probably better to keep Pond in a good groove at Syracuse, then after he's an important part of the Canadian Olympic team, promote him in September. That would be a terrific year for him.

How many tickets alone would Gagne sell?

If the team isn't winning, he won't have as much impact, nor will they need a lights-out closer. However, if they are in a pennant race, crowds would already be growing, and Gagne-mania would fuel the fever. It won't happen any time soon, but at the trade deadline, youneverknow. There will be many other suitors for Gagne if he's on the market, and Toronto has a deep system -- you can see how rumours get started. While I'm not going to speculate on the cost of something so hypothetical, I'm certain that J.P. wouldn't overpay for a gate attraction; he would have to believe Gagne was the last piece in the championship puzzle.

...the Yankees, who could move Beltre to second base

Let me get this straight. They want to have one of the better 3B gloves, and the best SS, both playing out of position? Surely Jeter can see that he belongs at second in that lineup. Anyway, that deal seems more plausible, even if Torre uses the Bizarro infield to keep Derek happy.

Did anyone one else do a double take after reading this part of Mark Zwolinski's article?

One of the biggest hurdles a prospect needs to clear is excelling at winter ball in the Caribbean.

I always thought players play in winter ball to get more practice; but, in and of itself, excelling in the Caribbean doesn't amount to a hill of coffee beans.

Jeff Blair had a nice story in yesterdays Globe,regarding Adam Loewen potentially being involved with Pond and others on our Olympic baseball team.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/tor/photos
AP's latest Jays pics are up. COMN

How many tickets alone would Gagne sell?

That's the real attraction of this move, I think. It would be an extremely popular trade. People would start talking World Series if it happened. I'm not sure how to estimate the effect on attendance, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was substantial.

The actual on-field impact, of course, would be much less. Gagne wouldn't be taking innings away from terrible pitchers; he'd be taking them away from guys like Adams and Ligtenberg, who aren't bad at all. Factor in the salary and the players going the other way, and the trade doesn't look quite as attractive. So I don't see it happening. But it would be an extremely popular trade.

A Gagne deal wouldn't make much sense for the Jays unless they're getting a seriously increased payroll in the next couple of years. He asked for $8 million in his FIRST year of eligibility and will be making $5 million. With Boras as his agent his demands aren't going to get any more reasonable. If Rogers is willing to foot the $8 million+ per year it would take to sign Gagne long term, I'd love to see that trade as long as it doesn't cost more than one impact prospect. The trade would go over tremendously well among the media and fans alike; the guy just won the Cy Young and should have won Canadian Athlete of the Year over a golfer.

I think there are lots of assets on the Dodgers I'd want to get ahead of Gagne if the Jays are going to continue to field a $50 million team. Now if it's Gagne and Delgado involved, then that could be interesting assuming the Jays can turn around and get a premiere offensive player from somewhere.

http://www.immune26.tv
The Gagne story is the FIRST of many of this type of discussion over the next few years...BECAUSE, JP has so many "prospects" in the pipeline that very soon places on the 40 man roster are going to become a real problem. We're going to be in the position of doing 2 - 1 or 3 - 1 trades OR start losing guys in the Rule 5 draft.

IF...we got Gagne then NO WAY can we also afford Carlos next year. BUT, if we're close enough for JP to seriously consider the move, part of the reason will be because Hinske & Phelps have ARRIVED and Rios, Quiroz and Gross are tearing up AAA on their move to the bigs. Carlos would then be a luxury, not the necessity he is now.

Question:
Have the 2 reigning Cy Young award winners ever played for the same team in the same season?

With Gagne's unbelievbale peripherals as a closer, it makes you wonder whether he still has the potential to be a front-end starter. I'm sure JP would have that as a thought (experimenting with Gagne as a starter again) if he was in fact pondering a deal for Eric. IIRC, even Eric mentioned recently that he wouldn't be opposed to starting again.

How many people think Gagne would make a difference to the attendance?
I don't see it. If they win, people will come. The reliever won't make a difference. Roger Clemens didn't make a difference, and people knew which days he'd be pitching. A reliever who may or may not pitch on a given day is unlikely to increase attendance, IMHO.

Two things:

1. If the Jays get Gagne (a long shot at the moment), the result will be more wins and that will result in increased attentance, especially if the Jays can get into the playoff hunt.

2. Pond as the 25th man also may help attendance. When was the last time that Toronto had TWO Canadians on their roster? Never! If Pond finds a niche that would make two productive Canadians. If marketed right, this could be something.

Cool...

http://economics.about.com
Wow.. great stuff Pistol! Maybe I should move into management and delegate all my ideas. I'm thrlled somebody took up the slack when I was gone! :)

Today's Jays Roundup will come at around 9:20 or so.. got some work stuff to take care of.

Cheers,

Mike

How many people think Gagne would make a difference to the attendance?

I think it might. Adding a Canadian Cy Young award winning closer? When all of Toronto is convinced that the Jays' bullpen kept them out of the playoffs last year and isn't much better this year? (I am overgeneralizing.) I think it might make a big difference.

I like the idea of Pond making the team, but he'd just be a bench guy. Pond =! Gagne.

I was going to joke that they could always make Gagne a starter, then saw that someone had already floated it!

Seriously... I think Gagne-as-starter is played. It's one thing to convert a player who's never been tried before, and at least Gagne would be *more* valuable as a starter. This wouldn't be like moving A-Rod to third base.

But when I think about that move, I think of Paul Richards moving Goose Gossage to the rotation. Moving a lights-out closer to the rotation isn't counterproductive, but unless there's a desperate need you're playing with fire.

Now that being said, if it were the seventh game of the World Series, or a one-game playoff, and I had a choice of starting Pat Hentgen or Eric Gagne, I'd probably start Gagne and hope for the best.

When was the last time that Toronto had TWO Canadians on their roster? Never!

For the sake of nitpicking I believe the last time was 1999, with the Canadian Pauls (Spoljaric and Quantrill). They also pitched together in 96 and 97.

I could see Gagne having a marginal effect on both wins and attendence if marketted properly. But I don't really see a utility player like Pond being a big draw, other than maybe if his family flew in to see him.

Pond as the 25th man also may help attendance

I understand he's Canadian, but is someone going to go to a Jays game because they may have the oppurtunity to watch him sit on the bench and pinch hit for Woodward in the 8th?

For the sake of nitpicking I believe the last time was 1999, with the Canadian Pauls (Spoljaric and Quantrill). They also pitched together in 96 and 97.

The complete list of two or more Canadians on the roster at the same time since 1996:

Paul Quantrill & Paul Spoljaric, 1996-1997
Paul Quantrill & Rich Butler, 1997
Paul Quantrill & Steve Sinclair, 1998-1999
Paul Quantrill, Paul Spoljaric & Rob Butler, 1999
Paul Quantrill & Rob Ducey, 2000

The Jays had Quantrill and Spoljaric on the roster at the same time for quite a while and attendance didn't seem to be affected at all. While Eric Gagne is better than either of them, I just don't see him having a significant impact at the gate.

is someone going to go to a Jays game because they may have the oppurtunity to watch him sit on the bench and pinch hit for Woodward in the 8th?

No, but they will go because they "suddenly hear a lot more about the Blue Jays" in the media. Anything to boost media coverage (and true to our small-time, provincial outlook, nothing succeeds with the media like a Canadian boy does good story) is going to help the team at the gate.

People in Toronto *like* baseball. We've seen this before. People don't like the Blue Jays right now because they are deeply unfashionable, and Torontonians are *obsessed* with fashion. The team is starting to change that, and nothing will put them back into fashion like positive media coverage (and winning).

I can't even count (must be over 30) the number of people who have asked me in the offseason what I thought of the Jays' chances, and each one of those people left me with the impression that they would start taking an interest in the team again if they looked like they had a chance - or even if they knew a little bit more abut the team!

Here's a partial list of reasons why I don't see any chance or point of the Jays acquiring Eric Gagne:

1. The bullpen is far more settled this year than last. Not that Gagne wouldn't be a great addition, but the relief corps is no longer a source of profuse bleeding for the ballclub.

2. There are excellent bullpen candidates rocketing up from the minors. Within the next year or two, we could see any or all of Adam Peterson, Francisco Rosario and Jamie Vermilyea arriving to man the barricades, in addition to Lopez and Speier.

3. Gagne won't be this good again. Not that 2003 was a complete fluke, but it was a high-water mark. It's unwise to expect him to demonstrate this level of dominance year in and year out, which for an expensive 100-inning pitcher is what I would demand.

4. The Dodgers have pitching, lots of it, in both the majors and minors; the Jays' best trade chips right now are on the mound. Positional prospects -- the kind that will make it worth DePodesta's while in trading the Cy Young winner -- are not plentiful in the Toronto system. Cash and Werth won't get it done, and Rios/Gross/Adams should stay put.

5. Gagne is already making $5M a year, and he's going to command more in the years to come. I can't see this organization ever paying more than $3.5-4M annually for a relief pitcher, no matter how good he is.

6. Gagne won't boost attendance. If Roger Freaking Clemens can't bring out the fans, then M. Gagne will hardly do better. Winning attracts fans, or at least contention, or at least hustle -- for all his merits, Gagne adds nothing to this Jays roster in those regards.

7. Gagne also won't boost attendance because he's French-Canadian, and the fact is that Torontonians would care as much about Gagne's heritage as they did about Denis Boucher's. Even B.C.'s Larry Walker wouldn't get the hometowners as excited as a Ducey or a Butler. Our nationalism is pretty provincial around here.

Anyone read SI this week? Not sure if the column is online, but Michael Lewis writes a response to the release of MONEYBALL and how it was received within the "Club" ... A good page or so about the Blue Jays, mainly about the media here in Toronto, the whole "white jays" Toronto Star incident and even some talk about the fool that is Richard Griffin ... Worth picking up the magazine this week if you aren't a subscriber ...

I did pick up SI and the Lewis article is very entertaining. He goes on the attack from the start. He is scathing. He makes Joe Morgan and Tracy Ringolsby sound like absolute dummies. He calls Ringolsby a bouncer for trying to keep Lewis away from baseball. He also calls him the head of the Ladies Auxiliary for baseball, not good enough to be in the Club, but in charge of running interference for the Club.

He also takes shots at Gillick, Geoff Baker and Richard Griffin. I know, it is like shooting fish in a barrel. But I want to echo what Nate said above, it is a very entertaining read. You don't usually get to read sports stories like that, lately the attack stories are about Mel Gibson or George Bush.

I think attacks on Gillick as a general manager are pretty silly. He's a great general manager, and I can't believe how many people don't see that. (I understand that taht's not what the Lewis article is about, i just wanted to bring that up).

If Roger Freaking Clemens can't bring out the fans

But he did! Didn't he? I used to notice a pretty big uptick in the crowds when Roger was pitching.

If Roger Freaking Clemens can't bring out the fans

But he did! Didn't he? I used to notice a pretty big uptick in the crowds when Roger was pitching.

"If Roger Freaking Clemens can't bring out the fans"

But he did! Didn't he? I used to notice a pretty big uptick in the crowds when Roger was pitching.

I don't think he did. In fact, I hear people talk about that all the time, like Jays fans were committing some kind of crime by not turning out for Clemens.

But I'm not talking about a game-by-game increase based on who's starting that day, I'm talking about an overall seasonal increase based on (unrealistically, I grant you) increased expectations of how the team's going to do by adding a topflight closer. And I think it really would help that Gagne's Canadian.

Just to make myself clear: I'm not advocating the Gagne deal. I don't think the game is worth the candle. I just think that if it did happen, it'd go over big.

I'm glad practically no one is taking this Gagne thing serious. All lot of you put great time and effort into your thoughts and analysis, so it would be embarrassing for someone in Jays management to look at a thread like this and not think they were actually looking at fanhome.com. For all the reasons Jordan summed up, and the fact that this says nothing about how the Dodgers feel, makes the whole idea silly. For those that believe extending Delagado is a end all be all, hope there's money too pay him, and let the Dodgers worry about how much the pouting Gagne wants.

I did pick up SI and the Lewis article is very entertaining

I second that opinion. Very fun. Lewis is 100% correct about baseball being a club.

For those who did pick up SI, by the way, there's a nice little surprise bonus in the Chicago Blackhawks article by Michael Farber. If you look at the AWESOME picture of Stan Mikita on the bench on page 62, and look just behind Stan in the background, you'll see a nice shot of a handsome young Dean Martin lookalike by the name of Phil Esposito. Espo before he was *Espo*.

it would be embarrassing for someone in Jays management to look at a thread like this and not think they were actually looking at fanhome.com

Oh please. It's pie-in-the-sky talk - just having fun. Who cares what the Jays management thinks of "us", anyway?

SHOULD the management go out and get Eric Gagne? Absolutely! Should they get him, given the team's limited resources? Of course not! Will they get him? Ha! Never in hell!

But so what? We can talk about, and analyze, the "what ifs" of the Jays getting Eric Gagne, or Barry Bonds, or Bo Jackson circa 1994 all we want. It's fun.

(And if someone doesn't like it, they can go somewhere else, where the serious people hang out.)

Yikes. :)

Craig - I don't think those remarks were really meant critically - seemed to me more like "glad to see that we'll talk about Gagne, but not collapse in paroxysms (sp?) of joy at the thought."

And I don't think it would really benefit the team at all, given what we'd have to give up, how much he'll make, and what our other options are. Fun to think about, though.

Those Stan Mikita Lange brand helmets were so cool--it looked like Stan was wearing a cut-off bowling ball on his head!

I didn't mean anything by the last sentence. Just that we don't want to encourage too much seriousness here. :) Shane is *always* welcome to hang here, he brings a lot to the table...

http://economics.about.com
...he brings a lot to the table

Oh man.. I hope that doesn't become the standard of who gets to stay, or else I'm outta here! :)

I was actually thinking of ordering this shirt to wear at work.

Cheers,

Mike

I call this the Schilling Effect. A big-name player unexpectedly gets mentioned in connection with a particular team, which then generates considerable excitement among that team's fanbase, regardless of how unlikely or impractical that player's acquisition may be, or how credible the source of the rumour is.

Some of you will remember Curt Schilling-to-Toronto rumour last summer which created a wild 123-post thread on the Jays official site. I've never seen such a weak rumour taken so seriously, and I doubt I'll ever see anything quite like that again.