Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
That's what Greg Maddux might be humming to himself today, as the future Hall of Famer has returned to the windy city where his career began, signing a three-year, $24M contract with the Cubs. Personally, I think the deal is one year too long, but the per-season price is about right for a pitcher who's still solid, but is not the Cy Young favourite he once was. The signing also has a full-circle symmetry to it that I like.


Have there ever been two teams battling for the division crown with better starting staffs than the Cubs and Astros?

Chicago

Mark Prior
Kerry Wood
Greg Maddux
Matt Clement
Carlos Zambrano

Houston

Roger Clemens
Roy Oswalt
Andy Pettitte
Wade Miller
Tim Redding

Not even the Yankees and Red Sox can top that. The NL Central ought to offer a spectacular two-horse race this year.
Sweet Home Chicago | 16 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Chris - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 10:05 AM EST (#78407) #
I don't think it is that bad a deal for the Cubs since the 3rd year isn't guaranteed. Maddux still has to pitch well if he wants that 3rd year to become guaranteed and remember, he will only be 40 during that year so he may still have something left.
Mike Green - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 10:26 AM EST (#78408) #
Coach, did you see that? Maddux will "only" be 40 during the 3rd year of the contract. Music to my ears.
_Jeff - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 11:55 AM EST (#78409) #
I know I am biased against big spending free agent acquisitions but once again, I just don't get it. Cubs success is going to be determined by their lineup. They have no true lead off hitter, Alou is slowing down, their 7, 8 hitters scare no one, and most importantly the heart of their order Patterson, Sosa and Lee each strikeout 150 times a year and thus kill many run scoring opportunities. The Cubs lineup just gives away too many runs to win those close ones. Case in point, Carlos Zambrano's ERA was 3.11 and he won only 13 games, Kerry Wood was 3.20 and he won only 14 games (same as Matt Clement who had a 4.10 ERA). How many games can Greg Maddux win with a 3.98 ERA? Is that materially more than what a Juan Cruz (whose talent is now officially wasted) could do?
Coach - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 01:29 PM EST (#78410) #
The NL Central ought to offer a spectacular two-horse race this year

They'll need all that pitching against Renteria, Rolen, Edmonds and Pujols. I'm not picking the Cards to win, but don't tell them they're not still in that race. Robert Dudek's DMB simulation using Dan Szymborski's ZiPS projections would also beg to differ. Both my previews (St. Louis and Toronto) will feature teams that aren't supposed to finish better than third, but haven't exactly given up. I agree with Jeff that there are as many questions about the Cubs lineup as the Cardinals staff, and Houston may have the best balance, but they also have Jimy matching wits with Tony and Dusty. I'm calling a three-horse photo, with only the slightest edge to Chicago. I hope a Central team gets the wild card and knocks out Bowa's Phillies; a Cards-Cubs NLCS would be ideal.

Mike, I wish I was "only 40" and knew what I know now. Even more so than guys I remember as rookies nearing the end of the line, it really makes me feel old when sons of players I remember as rookies are now in their 30s. Maybe the line dividing old fans from young ones could be whether or not you recall Don Zimmer as an infielder, which must be hard for anyone to imagine.
_Mick - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 01:39 PM EST (#78411) #
Coach, I don't want to suggest that you're understating the case, but Bret Boone is 34 and his grampa Ray played until 1960. Did Toddler Coach see Ray play?
Mike Green - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 01:54 PM EST (#78412) #
Actually, Mick, it's even worse than that. David Bell is 30 and his grampa Gus played fairly regularly until 1962 and then a couple of at-bats in 63 and 64. Toddler Green missed him by a couple of years, but I suspect Coach might remember him from his days with the Mets and Braves of 62. Heck, Coach might even remember his salad days with the Reds.
_Robbie Goldberg - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 02:06 PM EST (#78413) #
Coach, did you see that? Maddux will "only" be 40 during the 3rd year of the contract. Music to my ears.

If Maddux, truly one of the best pitchers of his generation, follows the trend set by some of his fellow greats, then pitching well into his 40th birthday is certainly not unreasonable. Clemens is going strong at 41. And didn't Boras emphasize that Maddux has thrown fewer pitches than one would expect relative to his innings pitched? And he's not a power pitcher either so his arm probably doesn't take as much strain...
_Cristian - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 02:37 PM EST (#78414) #
This deal will make a little bit more sense if the Rangers plan on using their 'financial flexibility' to make a run at Kerry Wood next year.
Coach - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 03:57 PM EST (#78415) #
Did Toddler Coach see Ray play?

Not that he can remember. At 7, I may have had Boone's baseball card, but was mostly aware of guys like Mantle, Ford and Berra, or anyone they made a fuss about on TV. I liked old guys who were still great, like Spahn and Musial, and I did see Ted Williams, but I probably didn't appreciate how awesome he was until he was retired; the Red Sox were a very weak team back then. I did learn how to pronounce Mazeroski and Clemente that year and still don't believe the Yankees lost.

By the time I was nine, I was obsessed with both playing and following baseball, so yeah, I remember Gus Bell fairly well. Don't know if the numbers bear this out, but he had a good reputation as a pinch-hitter.

I'm sure today's players are aging better. There were always exceptions who could play forever, but it seems like there used to be a lot more guys who got pretty old at 34 or thereabouts. Now you get a Greg Myers, in terrific shape, reinventing his whole approach and having a career year at 37.

Like many of us, Maddux isn't what he used to be, and this is about $10 million more than I would have wanted to commit, but he might earn every dollar. Not a terrible signing for the Cubs, and if it pays off this year, a very good one.
_Stan - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 07:16 PM EST (#78416) #
I remember Gus Bell playing, but what is scarier is I remember Don Zimmer playing for the Montreal Royals in the International League, vaguely. Don't remember seeing him play, but I remember Jo Crysdale calling the Maple Leaf and Royals games. Seems to me they had Tommy Lasorda, Don Drysedale among others. Memory is a little fuzzy.
_NIck - Wednesday, February 18 2004 @ 10:07 PM EST (#78417) #
So, now Juan Cruz is expendable. Any chance of the Jays going after him? Perhaps if Catalanotto gets off to a good start and Moises injures something they could swap him for Cruz in July?
_Dr. Zarco - Thursday, February 19 2004 @ 12:39 AM EST (#78418) #
I've watched Juan Cruz pitch a few times and I think he's overrated. I have absolutely no stats to back up my hunches (like minor league BB rates), but it seems to me he has no control, especially of the breaking ball, and is Kelvim to the 10th power--an error, bad call, or bird flying by funny wrecks him for the rest of the inning (which turns out to be his outing). While he does have talent, I'm not sure I'd like to see the Jays pursue him.
Gitz - Thursday, February 19 2004 @ 07:29 AM EST (#78419) #
If Maddux, truly one of the best pitchers of his generation, follows the trend set by some of his fellow greats, then pitching well into his 40th birthday is certainly not unreasonable. Clemens is going strong at 41. And didn't Boras emphasize that Maddux has thrown fewer pitches than one would expect relative to his innings pitched? And he's not a power pitcher either so his arm probably doesn't take as much strain.

You can bet that five minutes later Boras was using the other side of the argument: "You know that historically power pitchers last MUCH longer than soft-tossers, because, really, what's the difference between 98 MPH and 95?"

If you're a power pitcher working in your 40s and you haven't yet blown out your arm, chances are almost nil that you'll do it. It's not a question of Maddux blowing out his arm, of course, but it's simply a question whether or not he'll get peppered this year or next. By the third year of the deal, I can't see Maddux being remotely effective. Jamie Moyer's been doing it, but he's never been anything near a power pitcher, whereas at least Maddux's career numbers give off the impression he's one. He's not, he never has been, and when he finally loses it -- when his pitches start veering back toward the hit-me-zone instead of cuffing the corners -- it's not going to be pretty.
Gitz - Thursday, February 19 2004 @ 07:30 AM EST (#78420) #
And who gets skipped in that Cubs rotation because of off-days?????
_Disc Jockey 200 - Thursday, February 19 2004 @ 08:59 AM EST (#78421) #
I am happy about this deal because there has been rumors here in new york that he was going to the yankees. Thank god. I'd rather them have A-Rod than a quality 3rd or 4th pitcher. I know it sounds weird but offence isn't going to be the problem in the AL East. Boston and Toronto was 1,2 and I know that Boston had a flukey year with guys like Ortiz. I have more faith in our tandem of Wells and Delgado who are the best tandem in the division. We still have the Cy young winner who is the most talented pitcher in the division. Escobar might have more potential but you can't count on him for a win. I have more faith in Hentgen (Yes I really do), Lilly (took it to Boston last year) and Bautista. Lieber and Contreras? Give me a break. Brown and his injury problems? The Moose and Vasquez are the Yanks only true stars. And lets see how well Pedro holds up? I haven't seen him pitch a full season since he won the cy young. Schilling and Lowe are their stars. Wakefield, if not this year will eventually start getting caught up with. It is mind boggling how well he's done over the years with mediocre stuff. Please respond guys...
Craig B - Thursday, February 19 2004 @ 09:05 AM EST (#78422) #
who gets skipped in that Cubs rotation because of off-days?

My own preference would be for Maddux - if he feels he could benefit from the extra rest - or otherwise Carlos Zambrano, who has the youngest arm. Generally, though, I'd push everyone back and go with a strict rotation, no skipping.
Sweet Home Chicago | 16 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.