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In today's installment, the largest of all, Leigh reviews the trades from Gord Ash's tenure with the Blue Jays. What amazes me most about the Ash file is the huge number of trades; Gord Ash certainly kept himself busy.

Thanks once more to Leigh for this great project. We at Da Box are pleased to announce that Leigh will be joining Da Box's author roster, so we'll have more great articles from him like this Trade Catalogue, and his recent pieces on managers.


Part Four : Gord Ash -- Ashes To Ashes
by Leigh Sprague


November 18, 1994
Toronto trades SS Eddie Zosky to Florida for P Scott Pace.


Obtained:
Scott Pace did not pitch for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Eddie Zosky, one season in Florida
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1995 .200/.200/.200 6 0 -/-

Signed with Baltimore as a free agent on January 24, 1996.

Synopsis: Zosky - he of the Dave Till Buzz Factor of 7 - had a total of 17 plate appearances over three seasons with Florida, Milwaukee and Houston after leaving Toronto. Verdict: innocuous.

April 6, 1995
Toronto trades David Sinnes, Tony Medrano and 2B/OF Chris Stynes to Kansas City for SP David Cone.


Obtained:
David Cone, one season in Toronto
Year  ip     w  l  era
1995 130.3 9 6 3.38

Traded to New York (AL) on July 28, 1995.

Traded Away:
Neither David Sinnes nor Tony Medrano played for Kansas City.

Chris Stynes, two seasons in Kansas City
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1995 .171/.256/.200 22 1 +/-
1996 .293/.309/.359 36 10 -/-

Traded to Cincinnati on July 15, 1997.

Synopsis: at least the Jays didn't give up Jeff Kent this time. Cone was good in 1995, he finished fourth in AL Cy Young voting (although 1/3 of the season was spent with the Yankees). Stynes was dealt by the Royals with Jon Nunnally to the Reds for Scott Service and Hector Carrasco. Carrasco was lost to Arizona in the expansion draft, but Service did provide the Royals with one good season of relief. Nevertheless, it does not appear as though the Royals got more than the Jays did (130 innings of very good starting pitching). Verdict: slightly advantageous.

July 28, 1995
Toronto trades SP David Cone to New York (AL) for Jason Jarvis, Mike Gordon and P Marty Janzen.


Obtained:
Neither Jarvis nor Gordon played for Toronto.

Marty Janzen, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1996 73.7 4 6 7.33
1997 25 2 1 3.60

Lost to Arizona in the 1997 Expansion Draft.

Traded Away:
David Cone, six seasons in New York
Year  ip     w  l  era
1995 99 9 2 3.82
1996 72 7 2 2.88
1997 195 12 6 2.82
1998 207.7 20 7 3.55
1999 193.3 12 9 3.44
2000 155 4 14 6.91

Signed as a free agent with Boston on January 11, 2001.

Synopsis: none of the prospects that the Jays got from the Yankees yielded positive results. Janzen had the best shot, but his career never got off of the ground. Conversely, Cone was excellent in New York, particularly in 1997, 1998 and 1999. He was an all-star in 1997 and 1999, and finished fourth in AL Cy Young voting in both 1995 and 1998. Cone's Yankees postseason record is good: 6-1, 3.88. The Jays did not give the Royals much to get Cone in April, and they did not get much for him from the Yankees in July. Viewed cumulatively, those moves neither helped nor hurt the Jays; but viewed insularly, the deal with the Yankees does not look good. Verdict: poor trade.

December 7, 1995
Toronto trades 3B Howard Battle and RP Ricardo Jordan to Philadelphia for P Paul Quantrill.


Obtained:
Paul Quantrill, six seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1996 134.3 5 14 0 5.43
1997 88 6 7 5 1.94
1998 80 3 4 7 2.59
1999 48.7 3 2 0 3.33
2000 83.7 2 5 1 4.52
2001 83 11 2 2 3.04

Traded to Los Angeles on December 13, 2001.

Traded Away:
Howard Battle, one season in Philadelphia
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1996 .000/.000/.000 5 0 nil/-

Selected off of waivers by Los Angeles on September 30, 1996.

Ricardo Jordan, one season in Philadelphia
Year  ip  w  l  era
1996 25 2 2 1.80

Traded to New York (NL) on November 27, 1996.

Synopsis: Quantrill was solid in the Jays bullpen; at times, spectacular. Although he was an all-star in 2001, his best season as a Jay was 1997, when he pitched 88 innings, struck out 56 and walked only 17. Neither Battle nor Jordan played much for the Phillies, although Jordan was good in his limited innings (25). Jordan was sent, with Toby Borland, to New York for Rico Brogna following the 1996 season. Brogna put in three solid seasons for the Phillies (which is more than the Jays got in return for Quantrill when he was traded to Los Angeles in 2001). Still, the difference in the quality of the subsequent trade return value is not enough to make this trade a disadvantageous one from Toronto's perspective, because Quantrill pitched so well for the Jays. Verdict: a very good trade.

December 18, 1995
Toronto trades RP Paul Menhart and RP Edwin Hurtado to Seattle for RP Bill Risley and 2B Miguel Cairo.


Obtained:
Bill Risley, three seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1996 41.7 0 1 3.89
1997 4.3 0 1 8.31
1998 54.7 3 4 5.27


Miguel Cairo, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1996 .222/.300/.296 9 2 +/+

Traded to Chicago (NL) on November 20, 1996.

Traded Away:
Paul Menhart, one season in Seattle
Year  ip    w  l  era
1996 42 2 2 7.29

Traded to San Diego on June 10, 1997.

Edwin Hurtado, two seasons in Seattle
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1996 47.7 2 5 2 7.74
1997 19 1 2 0 9.00


Synopsis: Risley pitched well for the Jays in 1996, despite a penchant for gopher-balls and a mediocre strikeout to walk rate: 1.51 hr/9, 1.16 k/bb. Menhart and Cairo were both unproductive, and then traded for players that never made an appearance for the Mariners or the Jays, respectively. Risley was bad over 54.7 innings in 1998, but Hurtado was worse over 47.7 innings in 1996. The only positive for either team here was Risley's serendipitous 1996. Verdict: mildly advantageous.

May 15, 1996
Toronto trades D.J. Boston to Pittsburgh for OF Jacob Brumfield.


Obtained:
Jacob Brumfield, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1996 .256/.316/.448 90 42 -/-
1997 .207/.268/.282 58 13 +/-

Released on March 24, 1998.

Traded Away:
D.J. Boston did not play for Pittsburgh.

Synopsis: Brumfield did not play well for the Jays, and Boston did not play at all for the Pirates. Verdict: innocuous.

August 22, 1996
Toronto trades RP Tony Castillo and 2B Domingo Cedeno to Chicago (AL) for P Luis Andujar and Allen Halley.


Obtained:
Luis Andujar, three seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1996 14.3 1 1 5.02
1997 50 0 6 6.48
1998 5.7 0 0 9.53

Released on July 10, 1998.

Allen Halley did not play for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Tony Castillo, three seasons in Chicago
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1996 22.7 3 1 1 1.59
1997 62.3 4 4 4 4.91
1998 27 1 2 0 8.00

Released on June 21, 1998.

Domingo Cedeno, one season in Chicago
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1996 .158/.143/.263 12 0 nil/-

Signed as a free agent with Texas on January 15, 1997.

Synopsis: Halley did not play for Toronto, and Cedeno might as well not have played for Chicago, so let's look at Andujar and Castillo. Castillo was better in 1996, 1997 and 1998, which makes this a poor trade. Andujar was young (23) at the time of the trade, so perhaps the Jays thought that he would go further than he did. Verdict: not good.

November 14, 1996
Toronto trades P Jose Silva, SS/2B Abraham Nunez and 1B/OF Craig Wilson to Pittsburgh for 2B Carlos Garcia, OF Orlando Merced and RP Dan Plesac.


Obtained:
Carlos Garcia, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1997 .220/.253/.309 103 27 +/+

Signed as a free agent with Cleveland on January 6, 1998.

Orlando Merced, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1997 .266/.352/.413 98 53 +/+

Signed as a free agent with Minnesota on January 14, 1998.

Dan Plesac, three seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1997 50.3 2 4 1 3.58
1998 50 4 3 4 3.78
1999 22.7 0 3 0 8.34

Traded to Arizona on June 12, 1999.

Traded Away:
Jose Silva, five seasons in Pittsburgh
Year  ip     w  l  sv  era
1997 36.3 2 1 0 5.94
1998 100.3 6 7 0 4.40
1999 97.3 2 8 4 5.73
2000 136 11 9 0 5.56
2001 32 3 3 0 6.75

Traded to Cincinnati on December 20, 2001.

Abraham Nunez, seven seasons in Pittsburgh
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1997 .225/.289/.375 19 4 +/-
1998 .192/.344/.288 24 5 -/+
1999 .220/.299/.251 90 19 -/+
2000 .220/.283/.264 40 6 +/+
2001 .262/.326/.336 115 32 +/+
2002 .233/.311/.320 112 24 +/+
2003 .248/.310/.357 118 33 -/+

Still with Pittsburgh as of January 14, 2003.

Craig Wilson, three seasons with Pittsburgh
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2001 .310/.390/.589 88 34 +/+
2002 .264/.355/.443 131 52 -/-
2003 .262/.360/.511 116 53 +/+

Still with Pittsburgh as of January 14, 2003.

Synopsis: the Pirates have gotten fifteen seasons worth of player out of this so far, whereas the Jays' total was capped at five with the trade of Plesac during the 1999 season. Garcia and Merced were both regulars in the starting lineup for the 1997 Jays, the latter performing adequately and the former not really performing at all. Nunez is a slight upgrade from Garcia as a backup middle infielder; conversely, Plesac pitched significantly better than Silva. Plesac has added value here because he was traded to Arizona for Tony Batista, who slugged 41 homers for the Jays in 2000 (albeit as an obp. sinkhole). Craig Wilson is the difference maker here; he would look pretty good in a Fighting Jay uniform for 2004. Verdict: a poor trade.

November 20, 1996
Toronto trades 2B Miguel Cairo to Chicago (NL) for Jason Stevenson.


Obtained:
Jason Stevenson did not play for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Miguel Cairo, one season in Chicago
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1997 .241/.312/.276 16 2 +/-

Taken by Tampa Bay in the 1997 Expansion Draft.

Synopsis: I guess Gord Ash figured that with the awesome power of Carlos Garcia obtained in a trade a week earlier, that the Jays no longer needed Cairo. In fact, the two are virtually identical: Cairo's career line is .269/.317/.361, Garcia's is .266/.307/.374. Verdict: relatively innocuous.

December 11, 1996
Toronto trades RP Roberto Duran to Detroit for Anton French


Obtained:
Anton French did not play for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Roberto Duran, two seasons in Detroit
Year  ip    w  l  era
1997 10.7 0 0 7.59
1998 15.3 0 1 5.87

Selected off of waivers by Montreal on January 7, 1999.

Synopsis: not exactly a blockbuster. Verdict: innocuous.

December 20, 1996
Toronto trades 1B John Olerud to New York (NL) for P Robert Person.


Obtained:
Robert Person, three seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1997 128.3 5 10 0 5.61
1998 38.3 3 1 6 7.04
1999 11 0 2 2 9.82

Traded to Philadelphia on May 5, 1999.

Traded Away:
John Olerud, three seasons in New York
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms   rc  fld/rf
1997 .294/.400/.489 154 100 +/+
1998 .354/.447/.551 160 137 +/+
1999 .298/.427/.463 162 113 +/+

Signed as a free agent with Seattle on December 15, 1999.

Synopsis: Olerud's 1997/98/99 was much better than his 1994/95/96, despite moving from the hitter-friendly confines of Skydome to the cavernous Shea Stadium. Had Olerud still been on the Jays for the 1998 season, Toronto would have won the AL Wild Card. In 1998, Delgado played firstbase for the Jays, with Jose Canseco as the DH. Olerud, in 1998, had a WARP (Wins Above Replacement Player) of 10.1; Canseco's was 3.8. That's a difference of 6.3 wins, which would have been enough to overtake the Red Sox, who won the Wild Card by four games over Toronto. Add to that the probability that Olerud's numbers would have been even better at Skydome than at Shea, and what result is a very disappointing trade. Verdict: very poor trade.

June 5, 1997
Toronto trades 3B Jeff Manto to Cleveland for OF Ryan Thompson.


Obtianed:
Ryan Thompson did not play for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Jeff Manto, two seasons in Cleveland
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1997 .267/.290/.567 16 7 +/-
1998 .071/.133/.071 7 0 +/-

Selected off waivers by Detroit on April 24, 1998.

Synopsis: Thompson's second tour of duty in Toronto never yielded a game played. There is not much here to analyze. Verdict: innocuous.

July 29, 1997
Toronto trades Angel Ramirez to New York (AL) for 2B Mariano Duncan.


Obtained:
Mariano Duncan, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1997 .228/.267/.263 39 11 +/+

Granted free agency on October 28, 1997.

Traded Away:
Angel Ramirez did not play in New York.

Synopsis: the Jays sure could pick secondbasemen in the late 1990's, eh? Tomas Perez, Carlos Garcia, Juan Samuel, Mariano Duncan, Joe Lawrence and Homer Bush (although the later two are stretching it into the this millenium). In the time between Roberto Alomar and Orlando Hudson, secondbase was a sub-.300 OBP monster for the Jays(save for the underrated Craig Grebeck). Verdict: innocuous.

July 31, 1997
Toronto trades P Paul Spoljaric and RP Mike Timlin to Seattle for OF Jose Cruz Jr.


Obtained:
Jose Cruz Jr., six seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1997 .231/.316/.462 55 31 -/+
1998 .253/.354/.403 105 50 -/+
1999 .241/.358/.433 106 54 +/+
2000 .242/.323/.466 162 90 +/-
2001 .274/.326/.530 146 99 +/-
2002 .245/.317/.438 124 65 +/+

Signed as a free agent with San Francisco on January 28, 2003.

Traded Away:
Paul Spoljaric, two seasons in Seattle
Year  ip    w  l  era
1997 22.7 0 0 4.76
1998 83.3 4 6 6.48

Traded to Philadelphia on November 9, 1998.

Mike Timlin, two seasons in Seattle
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1997 25.7 3 2 1 3.86
1998 79.3 3 3 19 2.95

Signed as a free agent with Baltimore on November 16, 1998.

Synopsis: Cruz' best season in Toronto was 2002, during which he joined the 30-30 club. That 2002 looks like an anomaly when put into the context of his career as a Jay. Here are his GPA's (Gleeman Production Average, which is [[obp*1.8]+slg]/4) for his Jays years: .258, .260, .269, .262, .279, .252. Spoljaric, a Canadian, was adequate in 1997, not so much in 1998. He was traded to the Phillies after the 1998 season for Mark Leiter, who in turn pitched only 1.3 innings for the Mariners. Timlin was good for the M's in both of his seasons there, especially as the team's closer in 1998. The Jays could have used him in that 1998 season, with only Quantrill and Escobar as productive righties in the pen. Verdict: even.

August 12, 1997
Toronto trades OF Otis Nixon to Los Angeles for Bobby Cripps.


Obtained:
Bobby Cripps did not play in Toronto.

Traded Away:
Otis Nixon, one season in Los Angeles
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1997 .274/.323/.349 42 19 +/+

Signed as a free agent with Minnesota on December 11, 1997.

Synopsis: with the arrival of Jose Cruz two weeks earlier, Nixon was without a spot in the lineup. Traded to the Dodgers for the stretch run (who came up two games short of the NL West crown), Nixon left as a free agent after the season. No consequences for the Jays, as they finished last in the AL East in 1997 - a fate which an extra month and a half of Otis Nixon would have done nothing to ameliorate. Verdict: innocuous.

December 11, 1997
Toronto trades C Sandy Martinez to Chicago (NL) for Trevor Schaffer.


Obtained:
Trevor Schaffer did not play in Toronto.

Traded Away:
Sandy Martinez, two seasons in Chicago
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1998 .264/.363/.391 45 12 -/-
1999 .167/.167/.267 17 1 -/-

Signed as a free agent with Florida on December 6, 1999.

Synopsis: Sandy Martinez, also known as Angel Martinez, was behind the plate in 1998 for Kerry Wood's twenty strikeout performance vs. the Astros. He did have some decent offensive rate stats for the Cubs in 1998, but seems to have fallen off. Verdict: slightly disadvantageous.

March 14, 1998
Toronto trades RP Tim Crabtree to Texas for C Kevin Brown.


Obtained:
Kevin Brown, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1998 .264/.320/.400 52 14 +/-
1999 .444/.444/.667 2 2 +/-

Traded to Milwaukee on July 25, 2000.

Traded Away:
Tim Crabtree, four seasons in Texas
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1998 85.3 6 1 0 3.59
1999 65 5 1 0 3.46
2000 80.3 2 7 2 5.15
2001 23.3 0 5 4 6.56

Granted free agency on November 6, 2001.

Synopsis: despite a career line of .254/.311/.450 (which is decent for a catcher), Brown has never been able to secure a steady gig; he has 210 career plate appearances spread out over parts of seven seasons. A .450 slugging catcher probably deserves more of a shot. At any rate, he did not contribute as much to the Jays as Crabtree did to the Rangers. Verdict: poor, but not that bad.

July 30, 1998
Toronto trades DH/1B Mike Stanley to Boston for P Peter Munro and Jay Yennaco.


Obtained:
Peter Munro, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1999 55.3 0 2 6.02
2000 25.7 1 1 5.96

Traded to Texas on August 8, 2000.

Jay Yennaco did not play for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Mike Stanley, three seasons in Boston
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1998 .288/.388/.500 47 30 dh
1999 .281/.393/.466 136 76 -/-
2000 .222/.323/.411 58 25 +/-

Released on July 31, 2000.

Synopsis: hard to believe, but this is the only trade ever between Boston and Toronto. As pointed out in the Person/Olerud module above, the Red Sox finished 4 games ahead of Toronto for the 1998 Wild Card. Giving up a hitter to the Red Sox at the trade deadline who would go .288/.388/.500 in the last two months of the season was a mistake. Munro would later bring Dave Martinez, who had two excellent months as a Jay in 2000, in a trade with Texas; but losing Stanley to the Sox really hurt. Verdict: a poor trade.

July 31, 1998
Toronto trades SP Juan Guzman to Baltimore for RP Nerio Rodriguez and Shannon Carter.


Obtained:
Nerio Rodriguez, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip   w  l  era
1998 8.3 1 0 9.72
1999 2 0 1 13.50

Claimed off waivers by New York (NL) on March 30, 2000.

Shannon Carter did not play for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Juan Guzman, two seasons in Baltimore
Year  ip     w  l  era
1998 66 4 4 4.23
1999 122.7 5 9 4.18

Traded to Cincinnati on July 31, 1999.

Synopsis: Guzman lead the AL in losses in 1998 with 16 (four with Baltimore, twelve with Toronto). He pitched well for Baltimore in 1998 and 1999, with 4.23 and 4.18 era's, respectively, in two seasons that were a robust run environment in the American League. Guzman was in Baltimore for exactly one year, and then traded to Cincinnati for a minor leaguer and B.J. Ryan, who has given the O's four seasons of decent LOOGY so far. Verdict: a poor trade.

July 31, 1998
Toronto trades OF Tony Phillips to New York (NL) for RP Leo Estrella.


Obtained:
Leo Estrella, one season in Toronto
Year  ip   w  l  era
2000 4.7 0 0 5.79

Traded to Cincinnati on November 22, 2000.

Traded Away:
Tony Phillips, one season in New York
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1998 .223/.351/.330 52 21 -/+

Signed as a free agent with Oakland on December 14, 1998.

Synopsis: the Jays clearly threw in the towel too early in 1998, trading Mike Stanley, Juan Guzman and Tony Phillips at the deadline. Guzman was slated to make $5 million in 1998, so it is quasi-excusable as a salary dump, but Stanley and Phillips had salaries of only $1.8 million and $560,000, repectively. Phillips was nothing special for the Mets, but Ash dismantled this team too early. Verdict: a poor trade.

July 31, 1998
Toronto trades 3B Ed Sprague to Oakland for Scott Rivette.


Obtained:
Scott Rivette did not play for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Ed Sprague, one season in Oakland
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1998 .149/.187/.310 27 4 -/+

Signed as a free agent with Pittsburgh on December 16, 1998.

Synopsis: this 1998 deadline deal did not hurt like the previous three did. One thing I noticed while looking at Sprague's stats: he had a Reed Johnson-like ability to get hit by pitched baseballs. He was in the top ten in the league in hbp in 1993, 94, 95, 96, 98 and 99. He will be forever remembered as the member of the "Trenches" (along with Derek Bell) who hit the game-winning homerun in game two of the 1992 World Series. He would have been lost as a free agent at the end of 1992, so even a prospect who never made it was worth two months of .149/.187/.310. Verdict: innocuous.

August 6, 1998
Toronto trades RP Randy Myers to San Diego for Brian Lloyd.


Obtained:
Brian Lloyd did not play for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Randy Myers, one season in San Diego
Year  ip    w  l  era
1998 14.3 1 3 6.28

Career ended by rotator cuff surgery.

Synopsis: this trade is recalled every year after the trade deadline as an example of how important it is to be careful about whom you claim off waivers. The Padres thought that they would block what they perceived to be an attempt to trade Myers to the Braves by claiming him when the Jays put him on waivers. The Padres got stuck with Myers, and paid him $6.67 million in 1999 and $6.92 million in 2000, despite the fact that the former "Nasty Boy" never pitched an inning after 1998. Verdict: great trade.

December 12, 1998
Toronto trades SP Woody Williams, RP Carlos Almanzar and Peter Tucci to San Diego for SP Joey Hamilton.


Obtained:
Joey Hamilton, three seasons in Toronto
Year  ip     w  l  era
1999 98 7 8 6.52
2000 33 2 1 3.55
2001 122.3 5 8 5.89

Released on August 3, 2001.

Traded Away:
Woody Williams, three seasons in San Diego
Year  ip     w  l  era
1999 208.3 12 12 4.41
2000 168 10 8 3.75
2001 145 8 8 4.97

Traded to St. Louis on August 2, 2001.

Carlos Almanzar, two seasons in San Diego
Year  ip    w  l  era
1999 37.3 0 0 7.47
2000 69.7 4 5 4.39

Traded to New York (AL) on March 24, 2001.

Peter Tucci did not play for San Diego.

Synopsis: this was San Diego's revenge for the Myers debacle. Hamilton was acquired on the recommendation of then Assistant GM Dave Stewart, and proceeded to be either hurt in unproductive for three seasons in Toronto. During one game with the Jays at Fenway, Hamilton gave up a homerun and a fan heckled: "hey Hamilton, you suck in the videogame too." The difference, of course, is that the polygonal videogame version of Hamilton never cost anybody $17 million over three years. Williams was adequate or better for San Diego before being traded to the Cardinals in August of 2001 for Ray Lankford. Lankford went .288/.386/.480 for the Padres in what remained of 2001, but fell off badly in 2002. Verdict: a poor trade.

December 14, 1998
Toronto trades SP Beiker Graterol to Detroit for RP Eric Ludwick.


Obtained:
Eric Ludwick, one season in Toronto
Year  ip  w  l  era
1999 1 0 0 27.00

Returned to Florida on April 16, 1999 (he had been taken by Detroit from Florida in the 1998 minor league draft).

Traded Away:
Beiker Graterol, one season in Detroit
Year  ip  w  l  era
1999 4 0 1 15.75

Granted free agency on October 15, 1999.

Synopsis: not much opportunity for these guys to pitch or for me to analyze. Synopsis: innocuous.

February 18, 1999
Toronto trades SP Roger Clemens to New York (AL) for SP David Wells, 2B Homer Bush and RP Graeme Lloyd.


Obtained:
David Wells, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip     w  l  era
1999 231.7 17 10 4.82
2000 229.7 20 8 4.11

Traded to Chicago (AL) on January 14, 2001.

Graeme Lloyd, one season in Toronto
Year  ip   w  l  sv  era
1999 72 5 3 3 3.62

Signed as a free agent with Montreal on December 20, 1999.

Homer Bush, four seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1999 .320/.353/.421 128 71 +/+
2000 .215/.271/.253 76 19 +/+
2001 .306/.336/.387 78 34 +/+
2002 .231/.268/.295 23 5 +/-

Released on May 10, 2002.

Traded Away:
Roger Clemens, five seasons in New York
Year  ip     w  l  era
1999 187.7 14 10 4.60
2000 204.3 13 8 3.70
2001 220.3 20 3 3.51
2002 180 13 6 4.35
2003 211.7 17 9 3.91

Signed with Houston on January 12, 2004, after pretending to retire.

Synopsis: Clemens forced Ash' hand on this trade, so perhaps Gord deserves so forgiveness for the return. Clemens was never as good in New York as he was in Toronto, where he won pitching's "triple crown" and the Cy Young in each of 1997 and 1998. In New York, he won the Cy Young in 2001 and was an all-star in 2001 and 2003. Clemens was probably overpaid - $45.3 million total - during his tenure in New York, but it's unlikely that the Yankees noticed. The Jays got over 460 innings of decent starting pitching out of Wells over those two seasons, before trading him to the White Sox for damaged goods before the 2001 season. Homer Bush was good in 1999, when he did not make much money; he was bad in 2000, 2001 and 2002, when he made too much money. Lloyd was good for the Jays in 1999. This trade does not look good in hindsight, if only because Bush was signed to a bad contract after the trade and Wells was squandered. Verdict: a poor trade.

March 30, 1999
Toronto trades IF Tomas Perez to Anaheim for DH Dave Hollins.


Obtained:
Dave Hollins, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1999 .222/.260/.333 27 8 dh

Released on June 21, 1999.

Traded Away:
Tomas Perez did not play for Anaheim. Signed as a free agent with Philadelphia on December 15, 1999.

Synopsis: Hollins did not contribute much in exchange for his $1.9 million salary in 1999. The Angels got nothing from Perez. Verdict: mildly disadvantageous.

May 5, 1999
Toronto trades SP Robert Person to Philadelphia for P Paul Spoljaric.


Obtained:
Paul Spoljaric, one season in Toronto
Year  ip  w  l  era
1999 62 2 5 4.65

Traded to St. Louis on November 11, 1999.

Traded Away:
Robert Person, four seasons in Philadelphia
Year  ip    w  l  era
1999 137 10 5 4.61
2000 173.3 9 7 3.63
2001 208.3 15 7 4.19
2002 87.7 4 5 5.44

Signed as a free agent with Boston on February 22, 2003.

Synopsis: Spoljaric was unproductive in this tour of duty as a Jay. Person was good for the Phillies in 2000 and 2001, and a relative bargain at $1.4 million and $2.98 million, respectively. Person was grossly overpaid for his 87.7 inning 5.44 performance in 2002 ($6.25 million). Person was brought to Toronto via an ill-conceived trade (for John Olerud in December of 1996), and he left in the same manner. Verdict: a poor trade.

June 12, 1999
Toronto trades RP Dan Plesac to Arizona for 3B/SS Tony Batista and RP John Frascatore.


Obtained:
Tony Batista, three seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1999 .285/.328/.565 98 68 +/+
2000 .263/.307/.519 154 97 +/+
2001 .207/.251/.399 72 26 +/+

Selected off waivers by Baltimore on June 25, 2001.

John Frascatore, three seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1999 37 7 1 1 3.41
2000 73 2 4 0 5.42
2001 16.3 1 0 0 2.20

Released on July 31, 2001.

Traded Away:
Dan Plesac, two seasons in Arizona
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1999 21.7 2 1 1 3.32
2000 40 5 1 0 3.15

Signed as a free agent with Toronto on December 8, 2000.

Synopsis: each of Batista's batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage decreased in each of his seasons in Toronto. He was a 41 homerun hitting all-star thirdbaseman in 2000, and was lost the next season when the Jays tried to sneak him through waivers. It's not that Toronto should have kept Batista, it's just that Ash likely could have gotten something for him in a trade. Plesac was a better relief pitcher in Arizona than Frascatore was in Toronto, although the latter ate up more innings. Verdict: moderately advantageous.

July 28, 1999
Toronto trades RP Tom Davey and RP Steve Sinclair to Seattle for DH David Segui.


Obtained:
David Segui, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1999 .316/.365/.526 31 18 dh

Traded to Texas in a three team trade involving Montreal on March 16, 2000.

Traded Away:
Tom Davey, one season in Seattle
Year  ip  w  l  era
1999 21 1 0 4.71

Traded to San Diego on July 31, 2000.

Steve Sinclair, one season in Seattle
Year  ip   w  l  era
1999 13.7 0 1 3.95


Synopsis: two months of very good hitting by David Segui turned out to worth the two middling relief pitchers. Segui brought Fullmer - who was excellent for the Jays in 2000 - to Toronto in a subsequent trade. Davey was traded to San Diego with John Mabry for Al Martin, who was unspectacular as the M's fourth outfielder for a season and a half. Verdict: good trade.

August 9, 1999
Toronto trades Pat Lynch to Colorado for DH Brian McRae.


Obtained:
Brian McRae, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1999 .195/.340/.366 31 9 dh

Granted free agency on November 3, 1999.

Traded Away:
Pat Lynch did not play for Colorado.

Synopsis: 1999 was the last season of ten in McRae's career. A decent outfielder for the Royals in the mid-1990's, McRae did manage a .340 on-base percentage in 102 plate appearances for the Jays in 1999. Verdict: very mildly advantageous.

November 8, 1999
Toronto trades OF Shawn Green and Jorge Nunez to Los Angeles for OF Raul Mondesi and RP Pedro Borbon.


Obtained:
Raul Mondesi, three seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .271/.329/.523 96 66 -/+
2001 .252/.342/.453 149 87 -/-
2002 .224/.301/.435 75 38 +/-

Traded to New York (AL) on July 1, 2002.

Pedro Borbon, three seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
2000 41.7 1 1 1 6.48
2001 53.3 2 4 0 3.71
2002 12.7 1 2 0 4.97

Sent to Houston as part of a conditional deal on May 15, 2002.

Traded Away:
Shawn Green, four seasons in Los Angeles
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms   rc  fld/rf
2000 .269/.367/.472 162 104 +/-
2001 .297/.372/.598 161 137 nil/-
2002 .285/.385/.558 158 124 +/+
2003 .280/.355/.460 160 98 nil/-

Still with Los Angeles as of January 16, 2004.

Synopsis: like the Clemens trade, this one carries an asterisk, because Ash' hand was forced. Nevertheless, given that Mondesi was paid $32.5 million for those three seasons in Toronto, the Jays may have been better off trading Green for prospects. Not that Mondesi was a poor player - he wasn't, his 2001 was quite a season for the Jays - he simply cost too much. Like Mondesi, Borbon's good season as a Jay was 2001. Green, conversely, has been the Dodgers' best hitter since the trade (save for Gary Sheffield in 2000). In 2002, Green was an all-star and finished fifth in NL MVP voting. Green had an off-year in 2003 (likely attributable to a hidden injury), but at only 31 years of age he ought to make a comeback. Verdict: a poor trade.

November 11, 1999
Toronto trades SP Pat Hentgen and P Paul Spoljaric to St. Louis for C Alberto Castillo, RP Matt DeWitt and P Lance Painter.


Obtained:
Alberto Castillo, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .211/.287/.265 66 14 +/+
2001 .198/.255/.252 66 7 -/+

Released on December 12, 2001.

Matt DeWitt, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
2000 13.7 1 0 8.56
2001 19 0 2 3.79

Traded to Chicago (AL) on January 14, 2001.

Lance Painter, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
2000 66.7 2 0 4.72
2001 18.3 0 1 7.85

Released on June 29, 2001.

Traded Away:
Pat Hentgen, one season in St. Louis
Year  ip     w  l  era
2000 194.3 15 12 4.72

Signed as a free agent with Baltimore on December 19, 2000.

Paul Spoljaric did not play for St. Louis. He was released on March 29, 2000.

Synopsis: Hengten's 2000 season was more valuable than the 2000 and 2001 seasons of Castillo, DeWitt and Painter combined. The difference is in the cost, as Hentgen made $6 million in 2000 from the Cardinals. Castillo never caught on; it is fine to have an on-base percentage higher than your slugging percentage, but not if your on-base percentage is .255. Financially, this trade was good. Performance-wise, this trade was poor. Sentimentally, this trade hurt; Pat is beloved in Toronto. Pat came back to Toronto as a free agent after the 2003 season, so we can forgive the deleteriouis sentimental effects and call this trade a draw based on finance and performance. Verdict: even.

March 16, 2000
Toronto, Texas and Montreal involved in a three-team trade. Toronto sends DH David Segui to Texas. Texas sends 1B Lee Stevens to Montreal. Montreal sends DH Brad Fullmer to Toronto.


Obtained:
Brad Fullmer, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .295/.340/.558 133 90 dh
2001 .274/.326/.444 146 75 dh

Traded to Anaheim on January 17, 2002.

Traded Away (to Texas):
David Segui, one season in Texas
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .336/.391/.519 93 71 dh

Traded to Cleveland on July 28, 2000.

Traded (from Texas to Montreal):
Lee Stevens, three seasons in Montreal
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .265/.337/.481 123 72 -/+
2001 .245/.338/.452 152 82 -/+
2002 .190/.318/.376 63 24 +/+

Traded to Cleveland on June 27, 2002.

Synopsis: Fullmer was good as Toronto's Designated Hitter in 2000 and 2001; especially 2000. Stevens was at or below replacement level for the 'Spos, before being traded with three top propects - Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips - to Cleveland for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew. Although Montreal's Wild Card drive fell short in 2002, credit is due GM Omar Minaya for pulling off the blockbuster and going for glory in what was then thought to be the last season for the 'Spos in Montreal. Segui was fantastic, in limited playing time, for Texas in 2000, before being traded to the Indians for Ricky Ledee. Despite having subsequently dealt Fullmer to the Angels for Brian Cooper, the Jays likely won this trade. Verdict: a good trade.

March 22, 2000
Toronto trades RP Jim Mann to New York (NL) for Jersen Perez.


Obtained:
Jersen Perez did not play in Toronto.

Traded Away:
Jim Mann, one season in New York
Year  ip   w  l  era
2000 2.7 0 0 10.12

Signed as a free agent with Houston on January 3, 2001.

Synopsis: not much to analyze here. Verdict: innocuous.

July 19, 2000
Toronto trades 2B Mike Young and RP Darwin Cubillan to Texas for SP Esteban Loaiza.


Obtained:
Esteban Loaiza, three seasons in Toronto
Year  ip     w  l  era
2000 92 5 7 3.62
2001 190 11 11 5.02
2002 151.3 9 10 5.71

Signed as a free agent with Chicago (AL) on January 27, 2003.

Traded Away:
Darwin Cubillan, one season in Texas
Year  ip    w  l  era
2000 17.7 0 0 10.70

Traded to Montreal on May 8, 2001.

Mike Young, four seasons in Texas
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms   rc  fld/rf
2000 .000/.000/.000 2 0 nil/-
2001 .249/.298/.402 106 45 +/+
2002 .262/.308/.382 156 68 +/+
2003 .306/.339/.446 160 101 +/+

Still with Texas as of January 15, 2004.

Synopsis: Loaiza's inadequacy in Toronto did nothing to foreshadow his greatness in 2003 for the ChiSox. In 2003, he finished second in AL Cy Young voting, and won the first annual Batter's Box Andujar Award as the most surprising low-risk/high-return new acquisition. Like the sale of Fielder to the Hashin Tigers, losing Loaiza is best not thought about. Young has become the Rangers regular secondbasemen, with excellent defence and improving but not-quite-there-yet offence. It is difficult to fault Ash for Loaiza's 2003, but not so difficult to fault him for the $4.25 million and $6.05 million that Loaiza was paid in 2001 and 2002, respectively. Verdict: a poor trade.

July 25, 2000
Toronto trades C Kevin Brown to Milwaukee for Alvin Morrow.


Obtained:
Alvin Morrow did not play in Toronto.

Traded Away:
Kevin Brown, two seasons in Milwaukee
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .235/.278/.412 5 1 -/-
2001 .209/.261/.535 17 5 +/-

Signed as a free agent with Tampa Bay on January 24, 2002.

Synopsis: not much to analyze here, although the one could justifiably argue that Brown would have been a better backup catcher in 2000 and 2001 for the Jays than Alberto Castillo. Verdict: very mildly disadvantageous.

July 26, 2000
Toronto trades John Sneed to Philadelphia for OF Rob Ducey.


Obtained:
Rob Ducey, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .154/.267/.231 5 0 -/-

Traded back to Philadelphia on August 5, 2000.

Traded Away:
John Sneed did not play for Philadelphia.

Synopsis: Ducey's return to the Jays was short-lived. He was traded back to the Phillies two weeks later for Mickey Morandini. Verdict: innocuous.

July 31, 2000
Toronto trades 2B Brent Abernathy to Tampa Bay for SP Steve Trachsel and RP Mark Guthrie.


Obtained:
Steve Trachsel, one season in Toronto
Year  ip   w  l  era
2000 63 2 5 5.29

Signed as a free agent with New York (NL) on December 11, 2000.

Mark Guthrie, one season in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
2000 20.7 0 2 4.79

Signed as a free agent with Oakland on January 5, 2001.

Traded Away:
Brent Abernathy, two seasons in Tampa Bay
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2001 .270/.328/.382 79 38 nil/-
2002 .242/.288/.311 117 40 nil/+

Claimed off waivers by Kansas City on April 5, 2003.

Synopsis: Trachsel has a chronic gopher-ball problem, rendering him poorly-suited to pitch in Skydome; he gave up 10 homeruns in those 63 innings as a Jay in 2000. He has since relocated to the much more flyball pitcher-friendly Shea Stadium, a wise move by him and his agent. Abernathy lost his position as the Devil Rays' starting secondbaseman for the 2003 season, and was claimed off waivers by the Royals. Marlon Anderson took over the job, becoming the first ever Rays starting secondbasemen never to have played for the Jays (the role had been monopolized by Abernathy and Miguel Cairo in the Rays' infancy). Verdict: innocuous.

August 4, 2000
Toronto trades P Peter Munro to Texas for OF Dave Martinez.


Obtained:
Dave Martinez, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .311/.393/.411 47 29 -/+


Traded Away:
Peter Munro did not pitch for Texas. Signed as a free agent with Houston on January 27, 2002.

Synopsis: Martinez was good in limited playing time, but it seems odd that the Jays gave up on a young pitcher to get him. Nevertheless, the Rangers got nothing from Munro. Verdict: mildly advantageous.

August 5, 2000
Toronto trades OF Rob Ducey to Philadelphia for 2B Mickey Morandini


Obtained:
Mickey Morandini, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .271/.316/.308 35 10 +/-


Traded Away:
Rob Ducey, two seasons in Philadelphia
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2000 .217/.339/.239 42 3 +/-
2001 .222/.364/.370 30 3 +/-

Released on July 7, 2001.

Synopsis: a low consequence trade. Verdict: innocuous.

November 7, 2000
Toronto trades P Gary Glover to Chicago (AL) for P Scott Eyre.


Obtained:
Scott Eyre, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
2001 15.7 1 2 2 3.45
2002 63.3 2 4 0 4.97

Selected off waivers by San Francisco on August 8, 2002.

Traded Away:
Gary Glover, three seasons in Chicago
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
2001 100.3 5 5 0 4.93
2002 138.3 7 8 1 5.20
2003 35.7 1 0 0 4.54

Traded to Anaheim on July 29, 2003.

Synopsis: Eyre was a slightly below average LOOGY for the Jays, until lost to the Giants off waivers. He has been good for the Giants, with earned run averages of 1.59 and 3.32 in 2002 and 2003, respectively. The White Sox experimented with Glover as a starting pitcher in 2001 and 2002, before returning him to the bullpen in 2003. He was traded to Anaheim for Scott Schoeneweis at the 2003 trade deadline. Verdict: innocuous.

November 22, 2000
Toronto trades Clayton Andrews and Leo Estrella to Cincinnati for SP Steve Parris.


Obtained:
Steve Parris, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
2001 105.7 4 6 4.60
2002 75.3 5 5 5.97

Signed as a free agent with Tampa Bay on January 16, 2003.

Traded Away:
Neither Clayton Andrews nor Leo Estrella have played for Cincinnati.

Synopsis: Parris, like Steve Trachsel, is a bit too pre-disposed to giving up homeruns to be successful at Skydome (Josh Towers, I fear for thee). The Jays paid Parris over $6 million in total for those two seasons. Verdict: disadvantageous.

December 11, 2000
Toronto trades RP John Bale to Baltimore for OF Jayson Werth.


Obtained:
Jayson Werth, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2002 .261/.340/.348 15 5 +/+
2003 .208/.255/.417 26 5 +/-

Still with Toronto as of January 15, 2004.

Traded Away:
John Bale, one season in Baltimore
Year  ip    w  l  era
2001 26.7 1 0 3.04

Traded to New York (NL) on April 3, 2002.

Synopsis: Werth will likely be the fourth outfielder on the 2004 Fighting Jays, perhaps getting some starts against lefties in lieu of Frank Catalanotto. Bale was dealt to the Mets for Gary Matthews Jr., who was unproductive in Baltimore and is now with the Padres. Verdict: a good trade.

January 14, 2001
Toronto trades SP David Wells and P Matt DeWitt to Chicago (AL) for SP Mike Sirotka, RP Kevin Beirne, Mike Williams and OF Brian Simmons.


Obtained:
Kevin Beirne, one season in Toronto
Year  ip  w  l  era
2001 7 0 0 12.86

Signed as a free agent with Los Angeles on December 3, 2001.

Brian Simmons, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
2001 .178/.239/.280 60 7 +/+

Selected by Chicago (AL) off waivers on November 20, 2001.

Neither Mike Sirotka nor Mike Williams played for Toronto. Sirotka signed with Chicago (NL) on October 30, 2002.

Traded Away:
David Wells, one season in Chicago
Year  ip    w  l  era
2001 100.7 5 7 4.47

Signed as a free agent with New York (AL) on January 10, 2002.

Matt DeWitt did not play for Chicago. He was traded back to Toronto on March 20, 2001.

Synopsis: this trade and its ramifications made me lose some respect for former Jay and current ChiSox GM Kenny Williams, even befoe Moneyball came out. Sirotka turned out to be injured, and never pitched for the Jays. After the Jays invested resources rehabilitating Sirotka for two seasons, he signed with the Cubs, thereby vilifying himself to any Jays fans who noticed. The White Sox paid Wells $9.25 million for those 100.7 innings in 2001. On the other side, the Jays paid Sirotka $6.8 million over 2001 and 2002 to not pitch at all. Verdict: even.

March 20, 2001
Toronto trades Mike Williams to Chicago (AL) for RP Matt DeWitt.


Obtained:
Matt DeWitt, one season in Toronto
Year  ip  w  l  era
2001 19 0 2 3.79

Signed as a free agent with San Diego on December 18, 2001.

Traded Away:
Mike Williams has not played for Chicago.

Synopsis: these guys were both involved in the Wells/Sirotka trade. This is likely not what Jays fans had in mind when we suggested that the Wells/Sirotka deal should be retracted. Verdict: innocuous.
Blue Jays All-Time Annotated Trade Catalogue, Part Four : Gord Ash | 30 comments | Create New Account
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Mike Green - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 12:23 PM EST (#79308) #
Leigh, this is a great summary.

I have to quibble about the Cruz/Timlin trade. Although Cruz did not develop as one would have hoped, he did, IMHO, create significantly more value, at a low cost, in his 6 years here than Timlin did for Seattle in his 2 years.
_Paul D - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 12:25 PM EST (#79309) #
Excellent analysis, as usual.

One quibble. I just can't call the Wells trade an even trade. Considering what the Jays had, and what he would have gone on to do, this was an absolutely terrible trade. At least as bad as Olerud for Person.
Pistol - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 01:02 PM EST (#79310) #
Didn't the Jays send money to the Mets in the Olerud trade?
_3RunHomer - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 01:06 PM EST (#79311) #
I'm amazed by:
1) how fine a hitter David Segui really is, and
2) how often he's injured.

He and JD Drew should start a club or something.
_Robbie Goldberg - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 01:14 PM EST (#79312) #
Great analysis Leigh.
As I looked through this list, it seemed to me as though there really wasn't one deal that Ash made that truly worked out well. If anything, the best move was getting rid of Randy Myers. And any other moderately good deals (i.e. maybe Clemens, Fullmer, Batista) were ultimately negated with terrible contracts, TERRIBLE trades or the player's performance quickly fading. When he was the GM, I always felt as though he was doing an OK job - making the best of what he had - but when you look through this list of deals, I don't even think you can say that. The one thing Ash did in his tenure properly is drafting - and that has much more to do with Tim WIlken then Ash himself.
_S.K. - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 01:47 PM EST (#79313) #
Gotta agree about the Cruz deal and the Wells deal - the former was, I think, one of Ash's best deals, and the latter was one of the worst.

I'm struck by how many absolutely useless deals Ash made - it's like he had ADD with low-level prospects or something.

Great job, Leigh!
Coach - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 01:47 PM EST (#79314) #
We at Da Box are pleased to announce that Leigh will be joining Da Box's author roster

Yes we are. Welcome aboard, Leigh.

I understand the "even" verdict on Wells-Sirotka, because Boomer wasn't very good for the White Sox. However, as Paul D points out, what Ash could have (and should have) received for Wells, is another big negative on Gordo's uninspiring trade ledger.

Overpaying badly for Person, only to finally undersell him, is a pretty good capsule summary of this era, which soured me so much as a Jays fan that I stopped going to the park entirely. When I think of Ash, which I try not to very often, my mind's eye sees him in full Dr. Evil regalia, then images of Hamilton, Loaiza, Sirotka and Mondesi appear until I shudder and give my head a shake. Gord, who by all accounts was a good assistant, should be the cover boy on the next printing of The Peter Principle. Yes, he gets credit for some excellent draft picks, but can you even imagine what shape this franchise would have been in if Tim Wilken was as bad at his job as Dave Stewart was?
_Matthew E - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 02:11 PM EST (#79315) #
There's a trade missing from here! How could we forget the Lonell Roberts blockbuster?
_Spicol - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 02:24 PM EST (#79316) #
Talentwise, Juan Guzman for Nerio and Joe's second cousin was absolutely a poor trade but there was more behind that trade than talent. This is one of the many salary dumps Gord's hand was forced on. Factor in that the Jays saved nearly $7MM on the deal and it looks much better.

My favorite Gord Ash trade of all time was Tony Batista and John Frascatore for Dan Plesac. Jays fans that stuck with the team during this ugly period will remember that Alex Gonzalez went down with an injury early in the year and the Jays were scrambling for a shortstop - an out of position Homer Bush wasn't exactly getting it done. With his negotiating leverage compromised, how Gord managed to turn an expensive LOOGY into a young, power hitting shortstop AND an above average reliever is beyond me. Sure, Batista and Frascatore both ultimately declined and left the team under strange circumstances but as far as immediate needs go, that trade more than satisfied.
_S.K. - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 02:28 PM EST (#79317) #
Looking at a catalogue of Ash's trades, one might assume that the Jays were a 65-win team throughout his tenure. For me, it just emphasizes Ash's outstanding draft record (and of course the stable of prospects left to him by Pat Gillick). Of course, there's no way to know whether Ash or Tim Wilkins was more responsible for this strength, but I think it was basically Ash's only one as a GM.
Craig B - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 02:29 PM EST (#79318) #
I'm with Spicol. That Batista/Frascatore for Plesac deal rocked.
_A - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 02:30 PM EST (#79319) #
On the Segui trade...I was down at Spring Training when he got the news of the transaction. To say he was displeased would be a massive understatement and it led me to lose a lot of respect for a play that seemed like a good all-around guy (I recall him and his son having quite the time out on the Dunedin Stadium field before games). Anyways, during the middle of an inning he must have found out that he was headed to MTL because the rest that inning helmets and water coolers suffered great damage and during his next at bat on a ground out he barely walked to first. Sad to see from a "professional".
_Nigel - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 03:32 PM EST (#79320) #
I'd throw one other thought in about the Olerud/Person deal. At the time there were some payroll deals being done as the Interbrew crew was not exactly in love with the franchise. Some of Ash's deals need to viewed in that context. The Olerud deal was sold to the public in part on that basis but that was basically BS as the Jays ended up picking up a huge portion of his salary the next year if I remember correctly. To choose Olerud from that roster (given some of the other dead weight) and decide to basically pay someone to take him off your hands was ridiculous then and in hindsight should get Ash fired from any job in baseball. His regime drafted well for which he should get credit but his concept of payroll/roster management bordered on the juvenile.
_Spicol - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 03:50 PM EST (#79321) #
Summarizing Gord into a 4-pt scale, this adds up to 10 good trades, 3 even, 17 bad trades and 15 that didn't add up to a hill of beans.

Like Wednesday afternoons in November, what a bunch of blah.
_Shane - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 04:07 PM EST (#79322) #
I'd throw one other thought in about the Olerud/Person deal. At the time there were some payroll deals being done as the Interbrew crew was not exactly in love with the franchise.

I don't believe this is accurate in this case. As someone posted earlier, I believe Toronto payed around 5 mil of Oleruds 6.5 mil contract when sending him to the Mets.

If I properly looked at the stats correclty way back in '98, I always snickered at Ash trading for Nerio Rodriguez. Setting aside the fact that maybe this was the best deal available for Guzman, Nerio had pitched poorly in all his MLB innings, except for a well pitched seven innings start (or there abouts) against T.O. So considering I wasn't all that impressed by the '98 Jays hitters as a group, I didn't think it much of a compliment when grading Nerio. Of course when the Oakland A's acquired throw-in Cory Lidle in the Johnny Damon deal and were making comments that he impressed them because of how well he pitched when facing their offence, that made a lot of sense.
_WillRain - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 06:55 PM EST (#79323) #
I quibble with the original Plesac deal being considered bad. Garcia and Nunez are probably the same guy, neither matters. Silva did nothing important for them and Merced only gave us a year...hard to call either of those more valuable than the other.

That leaves Plesac v. Wilson. We got two great years and Tony Batista in return for a guy who would not even make the majors for 4 more years and has still yet to win a full time job at the easyist feilding position to fill in the majors (i.s. slowfooted, slugging, semi-competent defensivly 1B/Corner OF). Wilson's okay, but I don't see the imediate reward we got from Plesac as inferior to the delayed gratification Pitt got from Wilson just because Wilson still happens to be playing.

I make this one a mild advantage for the Jays.
_dp - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 01:42 AM EST (#79324) #
Memories- I remeber at the time of the Merced/Garcia/Plesac deal that Plesac was the worst player they got. I wish I was wrong.

The gems Ash snatched up should've given the Jays some significant advantages- this was a team poised to be very good after a short down time following the World Series. But Olerud and Green were squandered, and the Merced trade, which took a lot of talent from the system, was a bust. The former two you can blame on Ash (if you're paying Olerud's salary anyway, why not keep him around?), while the later I think is just bad luck.

Bautista, Fulmer and Cruz were all good players for their value, brought in pretty cheap (the Segui trade was made for salary reasons IIRC), and an influx of talent like that at such little cost should've made the team very good. BPro a few years ago said the Jays could put together the star talent, but not assemble the spare parts that make a decent team a great one, and this pattern just underscores that. Ash lucked into a 40 HR SS when his starter went down. He then negated the value of that SS by moving him to 3B and overpaying the mediocre incumbant. His history is littered with these types of maddening decisions...
_Blair - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 10:04 AM EST (#79325) #
Toronto trades P Jose Silva, SS/2B Abraham Nunez and 1B/OF Craig Wilson to Pittsburgh for 2B Carlos Garcia, OF Orlando Merced and RP Dan Plesac.

Wasn't that Brazilian kid Jose Pett in this trade as well?
What ever happened to Pett?
_Jake - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 10:44 AM EST (#79326) #
Gordo made up in quantity what he lacked in quality. Well, the size too, but I was talking about his trades.

He was snakebitten too. Everyone hailed the Merced/Garcia deal at the time. Who knew Garcia would age 10 years in the offseason?

I think you're less than charitable on the David Cone to the Yankees deal. Cone was gone anyway. The main effect of that deal was that Robbie Alomar took the next day off in a pout-in over not being traded himself. Cito let him do it instead of giving Robbie a pants-down spanking. I think Cito lost the clubhouse that day.

You mention the deadline deals of '98 a lot, in the context of a failed stretch run. The fact is that the Jays were out of it in July, and only made it close with a ridiculous September - I think 17+ wins. They actually gained 6 or 7 games on the Bosox and were one of the top two or three teams after July 31, so the assumption that the Jays weakened themselves with the deadline deals needs to be revisited.

Agree with others on the T-Bat deal. Probably the best one Gord ever made. Billy Beane's teachings notwithstanding, a guy who drives in 100 runs a year doesn't need to be an OBP machine.

I've heard Gord interviewed on local FAN radio a few times, both before and after his firing. He always mentions the strength of th minor-league system, noting that more Jay farmhands were i nteh majors than any other team. I always wonder why the interviewer never asks "Yes Gord, but why are they all playing for other teams?"
_Matthew E - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 12:37 PM EST (#79327) #
Everyone hailed the Merced/Garcia deal at the time. Who knew Garcia would age 10 years in the offseason?

Not me. I hated it from the word 'go'. In fact, I probably thought it was a worse deal than it actually was. Nobody was less surprised than me at the quality of Garcia's play, although Merced actually did a bit better than I expected. Why empty out the farm system for these guys?

I made a prediction at the time: in two years, Carlos Garcia will be out of the majors, and one of the players he's blocking (Domingo Cedeno, Tilson Brito, Miguel Cairo, Felipe Crespo, Tomas Perez, as I recall) will have a major league job. I was more or less right; Cairo and Perez are still around.
_dp - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 12:56 PM EST (#79328) #
The two years before he came to Toronto, Merced posted OPS of 833 and 814 (I'm not using OPS+ b/c at the time i had no idea it existed). His to .765 was unexpected, and looked worse because he started cold. But he was a mediocre and superfluous player before the Jays got him.

I was about to say something nice about the pre-Blue Jay version of Carlos Garcia, but looking back at his stats, I don't know why I ever thought he was any good.
_Matthew E - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 01:45 PM EST (#79329) #
One good thing about Merced: I once tried to figure out how in the name of everything bloodsome Carter drove in 100 that year (which wasn't a good year by his standards) and it turns out it was because Nixon and Merced were doing a reasonable job of getting on base for him.

For whatever that's worth.
_Shane - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 04:30 PM EST (#79330) #
There's been some super columns by the sites authors this week and some pretty interesting points of view expressed there after. But when I see Matthew mentioning the names of Domingo Cedeno, Tilson Brito, Miguel Cairo, Felipe Crespo, & Tomas Perez I start breaking out into cold sweats. I'd trade Izturis again today and ten others just like him.
_Gabriel - Tuesday, February 10 2004 @ 08:18 PM EST (#79331) #
Very cool rundown. Just a note. "Toronto trades RP Roberto Duran to Detroit for Anton French" I am quite confused by this. I know the Tigers traded Danny Bautista to the Braves for Antone French. Was it a 3 way trade because I also remember them having Duran at one point? It's interesting to point out the difference between the trades that were bad and that trades that turned out poorly. (Or good and well I suppose, although less often). The Timlin/Cruz trade was a great trade for the Jays. It didn't turn out to expectations though. It amazed me(and this refreshes my memory very well)how many of the trades even seemed bad even at the time.

1)Toronto trades P Jose Silva, SS/2B Abraham Nunez and 1B/OF Craig Wilson to Pittsburgh for 2B Carlos Garcia, OF Orlando Merced and RP Dan Plesac

I seem to remember that Silva was a top pitching prospect for years. I certainly thought that the three players the Jays were getting were not worth giving up anything for. (Plesac surprised me a bit with some solid lefty relieving)

2)Toronto trades SP Woody Williams, RP Carlos Almanzar and Peter Tucci to San Diego for SP Joey Hamilton.

I loved Woody. He looks like a mouse.

3)Toronto trades SP Pat Hentgen and P Paul Spoljaric to St. Louis for C Alberto Castillo, RP Matt DeWitt and P Lance Painter.

I'm allergic to defensive catchers. The Jays seem to collect them. (Tosca loves 'em too). A lefty spot guy and a defensive catcher for Hentgen and Spoljaric? No thank you.

4)Toronto trades SP Roger Clemens to New York (AL) for SP David Wells, 2B Homer Bush and RP Graeme Lloyd.

This is one of those places where you think Ash would have looked at the fact that Homer Bush sucks and not made the trade. He was forced, but these are the trades the Jays should have got good young players. Mike Lowell anyone?

5) Toronto trades SP David Wells and P Matt DeWitt to Chicago (AL) for SP Mike Sirotka, RP Kevin Beirne, Mike Williams and OF Brian Simmons.

Who? The net effect of all these trades seems to be to downgrade the team without getting prospects.

6)Toronto trades OF Shawn Green and Jorge Nunez to Los Angeles for OF Raul Mondesi and RP Pedro Borbon.

Downgrade. No prospects. Yuck.

The Jays were stuck in between winning and rebuilding. A couple of better trades by Ash and the Jays would be in fabulous position right now. Ash wasn't too good at hiring managers either. Remember Tim Johnson? Jim Fregosi?
_Gabriel - Tuesday, February 10 2004 @ 08:18 PM EST (#79332) #
Very cool rundown. Just a note. "Toronto trades RP Roberto Duran to Detroit for Anton French" I am quite confused by this. I know the Tigers traded Danny Bautista to the Braves for Antone French. Was it a 3 way trade because I also remember them having Duran at one point? It's interesting to point out the difference between the trades that were bad and that trades that turned out poorly. (Or good and well I suppose, although less often). The Timlin/Cruz trade was a great trade for the Jays. It didn't turn out to expectations though. It amazed me(and this refreshes my memory very well)how many of the trades even seemed bad even at the time.

1)Toronto trades P Jose Silva, SS/2B Abraham Nunez and 1B/OF Craig Wilson to Pittsburgh for 2B Carlos Garcia, OF Orlando Merced and RP Dan Plesac

I seem to remember that Silva was a top pitching prospect for years. I certainly thought that the three players the Jays were getting were not worth giving up anything for. (Plesac surprised me a bit with some solid lefty relieving)

2)Toronto trades SP Woody Williams, RP Carlos Almanzar and Peter Tucci to San Diego for SP Joey Hamilton.

I loved Woody. He looks like a mouse.

3)Toronto trades SP Pat Hentgen and P Paul Spoljaric to St. Louis for C Alberto Castillo, RP Matt DeWitt and P Lance Painter.

I'm allergic to defensive catchers. The Jays seem to collect them. (Tosca loves 'em too). A lefty spot guy and a defensive catcher for Hentgen and Spoljaric? No thank you.

4)Toronto trades SP Roger Clemens to New York (AL) for SP David Wells, 2B Homer Bush and RP Graeme Lloyd.

This is one of those places where you think Ash would have looked at the fact that Homer Bush sucks and not made the trade. He was forced, but these are the trades the Jays should have got good young players. Mike Lowell anyone?

5) Toronto trades SP David Wells and P Matt DeWitt to Chicago (AL) for SP Mike Sirotka, RP Kevin Beirne, Mike Williams and OF Brian Simmons.

Who? The net effect of all these trades seems to be to downgrade the team without getting prospects.

6)Toronto trades OF Shawn Green and Jorge Nunez to Los Angeles for OF Raul Mondesi and RP Pedro Borbon.

Downgrade. No prospects. Yuck.

The Jays were stuck in between winning and rebuilding. A couple of better trades by Ash and the Jays would be in fabulous position right now. Ash wasn't too good at hiring managers either. Remember Tim Johnson? Jim Fregosi?
_MatO - Wednesday, February 11 2004 @ 08:56 AM EST (#79333) #
Ash got cold feet after trading Cone for prospects and having none of the prospects pan out. He later publicly stated he would not trade a major league player for prospects anymore only for 'established major league talent'. We're still paying for that.
_MatO - Wednesday, February 11 2004 @ 08:57 AM EST (#79334) #
Ash got cold feet after trading Cone for prospects and having none of the prospects pan out. He later publicly stated he would not trade a major league player for prospects anymore only for 'established major league talent'. We're still paying for that.
_Matthew E - Wednesday, February 11 2004 @ 10:26 AM EST (#79335) #
I think to a great extent the city of Toronto agreed with Ash. One of the PR obstacles the Ricciardi regime seems to have run into is that the fans and media of Toronto just don't believe in rebuilding. They just don't think there's any such thing (or didn't; some of them may have come around since then). A team is either spending money and trying to compete, or giving up and maybe holding a fire sale. There's even a certain amount of conventional wisdom that once a team enters the rebuilding downward spiral, the franchise is doomed in perpetuity.
Craig B - Monday, February 12 2007 @ 07:29 PM EST (#163456) #

Since this thread was resurrected, I just wanted to point out a line in it that I found amusing in hindsight:

Guzman was in Baltimore for exactly one year, and then traded to Cincinnati for a minor leaguer and B.J. Ryan, who has given the O's four seasons of decent LOOGY so far.

Decent LOOGY indeed, indeed!  Anyway, this is not to get on Leigh's case, since the Rise of Ryan wasn't easily predicted.

Also, I wanted to point out that no one should ever, EVER feel nostalgic for the Gord Ash Era.  Man, those were some ungainly teams.

Blue Jays All-Time Annotated Trade Catalogue, Part Four : Gord Ash | 30 comments | Create New Account
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