Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
In today's installment, Leigh Sprague examines the trades made by Pat Gillick between 1977 and 1987. Our thanks again to Leigh for making this available as a Pinch Hit. This is a monumental piece of work.


Part Two : Pat Gillick, First Movement -- The Age Of Innocence
By Leigh Sprague



December 6, 1977
Toronto trades SP Pete Vuckovich and OF John Scott to St. Louis for SP Tom Underwood and RP Victor Cruz.


Obtained:
Tom Underwood, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1978 197.7 6 14 0 4.10
1979 227 9 16 0 3.69

Traded by Toronto to New York (AL) on November 1, 1979.

Victor Cruz, one season in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1978 47.3 7 3 9 1.71

Traded by Toronto to Cleveland on December 5, 1978.

Traded Away:
Pete Vuckovich, three seasons in St. Louis
Year  ip    w  l  era
1978 198.3 12 12 2.54
1979 233 15 10 3.59
1980 222.3 12 9 3.40

Traded by St. Louis to Milwaukee on December 12, 1980.

John Scott never played for St. Louis. Traded to Chicago (AL) on October 22, 1978.

Synopsis: Cruz was dynamite as the Jays closer in 1978, and Underwood was well above average in the rotation for two seasons. Vuckovich pitched excellently for the Cardinals, before being trading to Milwaukee and winning the AL Cy Young in 1981. That trade was huge, with Vuckovich, Rollie Fingers and Ted Simmons going to the Brewers for Sixto Lezcano, David Green, Larry Sorensen and David LaPoint. Underwood was involved in the trade between the Jays and Yankees in 1979 that saw Damaso Garcia come to Toronto. Verdict: even.

December 8, 1977
Toronto trades 1B Ron Fairly to California for C Pat Kelly and DH Butch Alberts.


Obtained:
Pat Kelly, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1980 .286/.286/.286 3 0 +/+


Butch Alberts, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1978 .278/.278/.333 6 1 dh


Traded Away:
Ron Fairly, one season in California
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1978 .217/.289/.366 91 25 +/-


Synopsis: This was the end of the line for Ron Fairly, and both the beginning and the end of the line for Pat Kelly and Butch Alberts. None of these three players was helpful to his new team; although Fairly got enough playing time at .217/.289/.366 to hurt the Angels. Verdict: innocuous.

March 3, 1978
Toronto trades RP Tom Bruno to St. Louis for OF Rick Bosetti.


Obtained:
Rick Bosetti, four seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1978 .259/.299/.347 136 58 +/+
1979 .260/.286/.362 162 64 -/+
1980 .213/.277/.324 53 16 +/+
1981 .234/.265/.277 25 3 +/-

Purchased from Toronto by Oakland on June 10, 1981.

Traded Away:
Tom Bruno, two seasons in St. Louis
Year  ip    w  l  sv   era
1978 49.7 4 3 1 1.99
1979 38.3 2 3 0 4.23

Released by St. Louis on March 31, 1980.

Synopsis: Bosetti was the Jays starting centre-fielder in 1978 and 1979, although his offensive contributions were negligible. Bruno and Cruz would have made an excellent one-two punch in the 1978 Jays bullpen, but two years of a regular centre fielder have to be worth more than 88 innings of solid relief spread over two seasons. Maybe. Verdict: very slightly advantageous, if at all.

March 3, 1978
Toronto trades P Dennis DeBarr to Cleveland for DH Rico Carty.


Obtained:
Rico Carty, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1978 .284/.340/.481 104 64 dh

Traded to Oakland on August 15, 1978.

Traded Away:
Dennis DeBarr did not pitch for Cleveland.

Synopsis: DeBarr was traded to the Cubs on June 26, 1978 in exchange for Paul Reushel, who gave Cleveland one good season of relief pitching. Toronto traded Carty to the A's in August of 1978, only to purchase him back in October of that same year. As will be elucidated below, that loan yielded something positive for the Jays; but for now, the quality of Carty's 4.5 months in 1978 outweighs what the Indians got for DeBarr. Verdict: good.

April 28, 1978
Toronto trades SS Tim Nordbrook to Milwaukee for SS/2B/Pretend Vietnam Veteran Tim Johnson.


Obtained:
Tim Johnson, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1978 .241/.315/.266 68 6 +/-
1979 .186/.255/.233 43 5 -/-

Granted free agency on November 1, 1979.

Traded Away:
Tim Nordbrook, two seasons in Milwaukee
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1978 .000/.167/.000 2 0 -/+
1979 .500/.500/.500 2 0 +/-


Synopsis: Johnson, in 1978, was a serviceable backup infielder. Verdict: very mildly good.

August 15, 1978
Toronto trades DH Rico Carty to Oakland for DH Willie Horton and SP Phil Huffman.


Obtained:
Willie Horton, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1978 .205/.228/.328 33 9 dh

Left as a free agent on January 27, 1979.

Phil Huffman, one season in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1979 173 6 18 5.77

Traded by Toronto to Kansas City on March 25, 1982.

Traded Away:
Rico Carty, one season in Oakland
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1978 .277/.368/.560 41 21 dh

Purchased back by Toronto on October 3, 1978.

Synopsis: The A's got what they wanted from Rico Carty for the final month and a half of the 1978 season. Willie Horton filled in less than admirably as Toronto's DH during Carty's brief absence. Phil Huffman lead the AL in losses with 18 in 1979, but was traded to Kansas City in 1982 for "Razor" Rance Mulliniks. Verdict: good... eventually.

November 27, 1978
Toronto trades C Alan Ashby to Houston for P Pedro Hernandez, OF Joe Cannon and P Mark Lemongello.


Obtained:
Mark Lemongello, one season in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1979 83 1 9 6.29

Purchased from Toronto by Chicago (NL) on April 7, 1980.

Joe Cannon, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1979 .211/.217/.254 61 7 +/-
1980 .080/.098/.080 70 0 -/-


Pedro Hernandez, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1979 .000/.000/.000 3 0 dh
1980 .000/.000/.000 8 0 dh

Purchased from Toronto by New York (AL) on August 23, 1982.

Traded Away:
Alan Ashby, eleven seasons in Houston
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1979 .202/.262/.277 108 24 +/+
1980 .256/.319/.347 116 39 +/+
1981 .271/.356/.369 83 33 -/+
1982 .257/.311/.416 100 43 -/+
1983 .229/.303/.389 87 32 -/+
1984 .262/.330/.361 66 22 nil/-
1985 .280/.363/.450 65 30 -/+
1986 .257/.333/.371 120 39 nil/+
1987 .288/.367/.438 125 62 +/+
1988 .238/.319/.374 73 27 +/+
1989 .164/.257/.213 22 3 +/-

Released by Houston on May 11, 1989.

Synopsis: Toronto did not get much here. Hernandez barely played, Lemongello was terrible, and Cannon got 197 plate appearances in 1979 and 1980 combined. This is truly amazing: in those 192 plate appearances, Cannon drew exactly one walk. Houston, conversely, got ten years worth of Ashby, who was decent. Ashby's 1987 is a very good season for a catcher. Were it not for this trade, Ernie Whitt might be most famous for having coached Team Canada at the Pan-Am Games in Winnipeg; or perhaps Ashby could have taken Buck Martinez' role as Whitt's platoon partner. Although it would have been a mistake to allow Ashby to have Whitt's role thoughtout the decade, the Jays traded something for nothing here. Verdict: bad trade.

December 5, 1978
Toronto trades OF Gary Woods to Houston for Don Pisker.


Obtained:
Don Pisker never pitched for Toronto.

Traded Away:
Gary Woods, two seasons with Houston
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1980 .377/.400/.585 19 12 +/-
1981 .209/.276/.264 54 8 +/-

Traded by Houston to Chicago (NL) on December 9, 1981.

Synopsis: Woods was good in 1980, but did not get much playing time. He was much worse in 1981, and got a little bit more playing time. He was eventually traded to the Cubs for future Dodgers manager Jim Tracy, who never got into a game for the Astros. Verdict: innocuous.

December 6, 1978
Toronto trades RP Victor Cruz to Cleveland for Phil Lansford and SS Alfredo Griffin.


Obtained:
Phil Lansford never played for Toronto.

Alfredo Griffin, six seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1979 .287/.333/.364 153 74 -/+
1980 .254/.283/.349 155 64 -/+
1981 .209/.243/.289 101 27 -/+
1982 .241/.269/.314 162 45 +/+
1983 .250/.289/.348 162 52 +/+
1984 .241/.248/.298 140 31 nil/+

Traded to Oakland on December 8, 1984.

Traded Away:
Victor Cruz, two seasons with Cleveland
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1979 78.7 3 9 10 4.23
1980 86 6 7 12 3.45

Traded by Cleveland to Pittsburgh on December 9, 1980.

Synopsis: Griffin was the Jays starting shortstop for six years, before being traded before the 1985 season to make room for Tony Fernandez. Griffin's best season was 1979, when he tied the Twins' John Castino for AL Rookie of the Year. Cruz was good for two seasons in the Indians' bullpen before being traded to Pittsburgh in December of 1980. In return for Cruz, Gary Alexander, Bob Owchinko and Rafael Vasquez, the Indians got Bert Blyleven and Manny Sanguillen. Sanguillen's career was over, but Blyleven gave the Indians four good seasons of starting pitching, the best of which was 1985 when he was an all-star. Blyleven was later shipped to Minnesota for a package of players including Jay Bell. Both teams did well here: Toronto got Griffin, Cleveland got Cruz/Blyleven/Bell. Verdict: even.

November 1, 1979
Toronto trades C Rick Cerone, SP Tom Underwood and OF Ted Wilborn to New York (AL) for 1B Chris Chambliss, SP Paul Mirabella and 2B Damaso Garcia.


Obtained:
Chris Chambliss never played for Toronto. Traded to Atlanta on December 5, 1979.

Paul Mirabella, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1980 130.7 5 12 4.34
1981 14.7 0 0 7.36

Traded to Chicago (NL) on December 28, 1981.

Damaso Garcia, seven seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1980 .278/.296/.381 140 60 -/+
1981 .252/.277/.304 64 21 -/+
1982 .310/.338/.399 147 79 -/+
1983 .307/.336/.390 131 69 nil/+
1984 .284/.310/.374 152 71 nil/+
1985 .282/.302/.377 146 67 -/+
1986 .281/.306/.375 122 48 +/+

Traded to Atlanta on February 2, 1987.

Traded Away:
Tom Underwood, two seasons in New York
Year  ip    w  l  era
1980 187 13 9 3.66
1981 32.7 1 4 4.41

Traded to Oakland on May 20, 1981.

Rick Cerone, five seasons in New York
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1980 .277/.321/.432 147 71 +/+
1981 .244/.276/.342 71 22 +/+
1982 .227/.271/.310 89 25 +/+
1983 .220/.267/.272 80 17 +/+
1984 .208/.269/.283 38 9 +/+

Traded to Atlanta on December 5, 1984.

Ted Wilborn, one season in New York
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1980 .250/.250/.250 8 0 +/+

Traded to San Francisco on March 30, 1982.

Synopsis: The Jays got their regular secondbaseman for seven years in Damaso Garcia; he was an all-star in 1984 and 1985. Chambliss was traded one month later to Atlanta in a trade that landed the Jays Joey McLauglin and Barry Bonnell (the trade will be discussed below). Put into his career context, Rick Cerone's 1980 (in which he finished 7th in AL MVP voting) looks like an aberration. Ted Wilborn was traded in March of 1982 to San Francisco with Andy McGaffigan for Doyle Alexander. This would have been good for the Yankees, except that they released Alexander in March of 1983; he subsequently signed with the Jays. Verdict: Both directly and indirectly, a good trade for the Jays.

December 5, 1979
Toronto trades 1B Chris Chambliss and SS Luis Gomez to Atlanta for OF Barry Bonnell, RP Joey McLaughlin and SS Pat Rockett.


Obtained:
Barry Bonnell, four seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1980 .268/.322/.417 130 62 -/+
1981 .220/.262/.339 66 20 -/+
1982 .293/.342/.407 140 60 -/-
1983 .318/.369/.469 121 66 +/-

Traded to Seattle on December 8, 1983.

Joey McLaughlin, five seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1980 135.7 6 9 4 4.51
1981 60 1 5 10 2.85
1982 70 8 6 8 3.21
1983 64.7 7 4 9 4.45
1984 10.7 0 0 0 2.53

Released by Toronto on May 12, 1984.

Pat Rockett never played in Toronto.

Traded Away:
Chris Chambliss, seven seasons in Atlanta
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1980 .282/.338/.440 158 89 +/+
1981 .272/.343/.403 107 56 +/+
1982 .270/.337/.436 157 79 +/+
1983 .280/.366/.481 131 79 +/+
1984 .257/.350/.362 135 49 +/+
1985 .235/.307/.329 101 17 +/-
1986 .311/.384/.426 97 20 +/-

Left as a free agent on November 12, 1986.

Luis Gomez, two seasons in Atlanta
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1980 .191/.239/.212 121 14 +/-
1981 .200/.317/.200 35 2 -/-

Released by Atlanta on March 29, 1982.

Synopsis: It does not seem as though the Jays ever intended to keep Chris Chambliss. He had a few good seasons as the Braves' firstbaseman, but he was not as good as the either of John Mayberry or Willie Upshaw, who were the Jays' firstbasemen during that timespan. McLaughlin was good in the Jays' bullpens of the early 1980's, and Bonnell was good in 1982 and 1983. Verdict: good trade.

December 12, 1980
Toronto trades SS Bob Bailor to New York (NL) for RP Roy Lee Jackson.


Obtained:
Roy Lee Jackson, four seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1981 62 1 2 7 2.61
1982 97 8 8 6 3.06
1983 92 8 3 7 4.50
1984 86 7 8 10 3.86

Released by Toronto on April 1, 1985.

Traded Away:
Bob Bailor, two seasons in New York
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1981 .284/.352/.346 51 9 -/-
1982 .277/.313/.319 110 37 +/-

Traded to Los Angeles on December 8, 1983.

Synopsis: Jackson, like McLaughlin, was solid in the Jays' bullpen in the early 1980's. Bailor was unspectacular as the Mets' shortstop in 1981 and 1982, but was traded in December of 1983 with Carlos Diaz to Los Angeles for Ross Jones and Sid Fernandez. Fernandez gave the Mets ten good seasons of starting pitching, including all-star appearances in 1986 and 1987. Verdict: directly a good trade, indirectly (by virtue of the Mets' subsequent acquisition of Sid Fernandez) the Jays were short-changed.

April 6, 1981
Toronto trades P Charlie Puleo to New York (NL) for P Mark Bomback.


Obtained:
Mark Bomback, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1981 90.3 5 5 3.89
1982 59.7 1 5 6.03


Traded Away:
Charlie Puleo, two seasons in New York
Year  ip    w  l  era
1981 13.3 0 0 0.00
1982 171 9 9 4.47

Traded to Cincinnati after 1982 season.

Synopsis: Not much difference in the performance of these two pitchers for their post-trade teams. The Mets traded Puleo and Lloyd McClendon to Cincinnati after the 1982 season for Tom Seaver. Seaver was decent for the Mets in 1983 (9-14, 3.55) before being lost to the White Sox as a free agent compensation pick on January 20, 1984. Verdict: the advantage here goes to the Mets... Seaver serves as the tie-breaker here because Bomback and Puleo were rough equivalents.

May 11, 1981
Toronto trades OF Gil Kubski to Milwaukee for C Buck Martinez.


Obtained:
Buck Martinez, six seasons with Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1981 .227/.287/.398 45 14 +/nil
1982 .242/.301/.423 96 33 nil/-
1983 .253/.337/.452 88 34 +/-
1984 .220/.301/.349 102 24 +/-
1985 .162/.239/.313 42 7 +/-
1986 .181/.271/.269 81 11 +/-

Granted free agency on November 12, 1986.

Traded Away:
Gil Kubski never played for Milwaukee.

Synopsis: Buck's 1983 was decent. He was a good backup and platoon partner for Ernie Whitt in the mid 1980's. The Jays got something for nothing here. Verdict: good trade.

December 28, 1981
Toronto trades 1B Greg Wells to Minnesota for OF Hosken Powell.


Obtained:
Hosken Powell, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1982 .275/.304/.389 112 31 -/-
1983 .169/.213/.205 40 3 nil/-

Released by Toronto on July 10, 1983.

Traded Away:
Greg Wells, one season in Minnesota
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1982 .204/.211/.296 15 3 -/-

Released by Minnesota on January 14, 1983.

Synopsis: Both Powell and Wells were bench players, although the former got more playing time and was better. Verdict: very slightly advantageous.

December 28, 1981
Toronto trades P Paul Mirabella to Chicago (NL) for P Dave Geisel.


Obtained:
Dave Geisel, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1982 31.7 1 1 0 3.98
1983 52.3 0 3 5 4.64

Lost to Seattle in the Rule 5 Draft on December 5, 1987.

Traded Away:
Paul Mirabella did not play for Chicago.

Synopsis: Mirabella was traded by the Cubs to the Rangers before the 1982 season for Bump Wills. Wills was decent (.272/.347/.377) as the Cubs starting secondbaseman in 1982. Geisel was a good supplement to the Jays' McLaughlin/Jackson middle relief corps on 1982 and 1983. Verdict: even, although the Cubs may have gotten more in return for Mirabella (Wills) than they originally gave up (Geisel).

March 25, 1982
Toronto trades SP Phil Huffman to Kansas City for 3B/DH Rance Mulliniks.


Obtained:
Rance Mulliniks, eleven seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1982 .244/.326/.363 112 36 -/-
1983 .275/.373/.467 129 63 +/-
1984 .324/.383/.440 125 57 +/-
1985 .295/.383/.454 129 64 +/-
1986 .259/.340/.417 117 49 +/-
1987 .310/.371/.500 124 62 -/-
1988 .300/.395/.475 119 63 dh
1989 .238/.320/.326 103 28 dh
1990 .289/.417/.392 57 16 +/-
1991 .250/.364/.333 97 29 dh
1992 .500/.667/.500 3 0 dh

Granted free agency on October 29, 1992.

Traded Away:
Phil Huffman did not play for Kansas City. He was released on April 2, 1983.

Synopsis: Mulliniks was solid as a DH and a thirdbaseman in Toronto for a decade. When the Jays realized early in 1988 that Sil Campusano did not belong in the starting outfield, George Bell was moved back to leftfield from DH, and Rance picked up the DH duties. That was the best of Mulliniks' eight good seasons for the Jays of the 1980's. Verdict: fantastic trade.

April 2, 1982
Toronto trades 3B Aurelio Rodriguez to Chicago (AL) for OF Wayne Nordhagen.


Obtained:
Wayne Nordhagen, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1982 .270/.305/.319 72 18 +/-

Traded to Philadelphia on June 15, 1982.

Traded Away:
Aurelio Rodriguez, one season in Chicago (AL)
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1982 .241/.275/.342 118 24 +/-


Synopsis: nothing special here; it is probably fair to say that this trade was even. With the Mulliniks/Iorg platoon at third in 1982, Rodriguez wasn't of much use to Toronto. Verdict: innocuous.

May 5, 1982
Toronto trades 1B John Mayberry to New York (AL) for DH Dave Revering, DH Tom Dodd and Jeff Reynolds.


Obtained:
Dave Revering, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1982 .215/.321/.370 55 16 dh

Signed as a free agent with Seattle on August 6, 1982.

Jeff Reynolds did not play in Toronto.

Tom Dodd did not play in Toronto. He was traded back to New York (AL) on December 9, 1982.

Traded Away:
John Mayberry, one season in New York
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1982 .209/.313/.353 69 22 +/-

Released by New York on March 24, 1983.

Synopsis: Revering's 1982 was better than Mayberry's, which makes this a good trade for Toronto. Tom Dodd was involved in a huge trade with the Yankees later in 1982. Verdict: good trade.

November 5, 1982
Toronto trades OF Al Woods to Oakland for DH Cliff Johnson.


Obtained:
Cliff Johnson, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1983 .265/.373/.489 142 73 dh
1984 .304/.390/.507 127 70 dh

Signed as a free agent with Texas on December 5, 1984.

Traded Away:
Al Woods did not play for Oakland. He was released on March 28, 1983.

Synopsis: after being released by Oakland in March, Woods signed with the Jays in July. Johnson was one of the Jays' better hitters in 1983 and 1984. In 1984, he lead the Jays' regulars in on-base and slugging percentages. Verdict: good trade.

December 9, 1982
Toronto trades RP Dale Murray and DH Tom Dodd to New York (AL) for 1B Fred McGriff, SP Mike Morgan and OF Dave Collins.


Obtained:
Fred McGriff, five seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1986 .200/.200/.200 3 0 dh
1987 .247/.376/.505 107 55 dh
1988 .282/.376/.552 154 110 +/+
1989 .269/.399/.525 161 115 -/+
1990 .300/.400/.530 153 118 +/+

Traded to San Diego on December 5, 1990.

Dave Collins, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1983 .271/.343/.328 118 45 +/+
1984 .308/.366/.444 128 69 +/-

Traded to Oakland on December 8, 1984.

Mike Morgan, one season in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1983 45.3 0 3 5.16

Lost to Seattle on December 3, 1984 in Rule 5 Draft.

Traded Away:
Dale Murray, three seasons in New York
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1983 94.3 2 4 1 4.48
1984 23.7 1 2 0 4.94
1985 2 0 0 0 13.50

Released by New York on April 25, 1985.

Tom Dodd did not play for New York. He was released on May 9, 1983.

Synopsis: in return for less than 125 innings of below average relief pitching spread over three seasons (Murray), the Jays got three excellent seasons at firstbase (McGriff) and two solid seasons of speedy outfielder (Collins). Morgan would have a long and productive career, though not with the Jays. In 1989, McGriff finished sixth in AL MVP voting, leading the league with 36 homeruns and a .924 OPS; all for a salary of $300,000. If you accept that McGriff was necessary to get Alomar from San Diego in December of 1990, then the return on this trade was two full seasons of Collins, three full seasons of McGriff and five full seasons of Alomar. Verdict: excellent, wonderful, incredible, etc.

February 4, 1983
Toronto trades OF Leon Roberts to Kansas City for DH Cecil Fielder.


Obtained:
Cecil Fielder, four seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1985 .311/.358/.527 30 14 dh
1986 .157/.222/.325 34 5 dh
1987 .269/.345/.560 82 33 dh
1988 .230/.289/.431 74 21 dh

Sold to Hashin Tigers (Japan) on December 22, 1988.

Traded Away:
Leon Roberts, two seasons in Kansas City
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1983 .258/.313/.404 84 26 -/-
1984 .222/.300/.289 29 3 +/-

Released by Kansas City on October 10, 1984.

Synopsis: Fielder later excelled for two Tigers organizations (Hashin and Detroit), but contributed minimally to the Jays. Maybe the Jays should have seen the promise in Fielder's .269/.345/.560 line in 1987... as a Jays fan, I find that it is best not to dwell on what Fielder's 51 homeruns would have meant to the Jays in 1990. This trade, though - the Fielder for Roberts trade - yielded more for the Jays than it did for the Royals. Verdict: good trade.

February 4, 1983
Toronto trades RP Steve Senteney to New York (NL) for DH Jorge Orta.


Obtained:
Jorge Orta, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1983 .237/.287/.408 103 29 dh

Traded to Kansas City on December 20, 1983.

Traded Away:
Steve Senteney did not pitch for New York. Traded to Pittsburgh on June 14, 1983.

Synopsis: Orta was below the production level expected of a DH in 1983. The Mets traded Senteney and Marvell Wynne to the Pirates for Junior Ortiz, who gave them two seasons worth of backup catching. Verdict: slightly disadvantageous.

December 9, 1983
Toronto trades OF Barry Bonnell to Seattle for RP Bryan Clark.


Obtained:
Bryan Clark, one season in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  era
1984 45.7 1 2 5.91

Released on April 1, 1985.

Traded Away:
Barry Bonnell, three seasons in Seattle
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1984 .264/.315/.394 110 44 +/-
1985 .243/.282/.342 48 10 +/-
1986 .196/.208/.235 17 2 -/-

Released by Seattle on July 21, 1986.

Synopsis: neither team got much here. Both players were bad, but the difference is that they Jays only let Clark be bad for 45 innings before releasing him, whereas the Mariners let Bonnell be bad for 175 games over three seasons before executing his release. Verdict: innocuous.

December 19, 1983
Toronto trades DH Jorge Orta to Kansas City for DH Willie Aikens.


Obtained:
Willie Aikens, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1984 .205/.298/.376 93 25 dh
1985 .200/.292/.400 12 2 dh

Released on May 9, 1985.

Traded Away:
Jorge Orta, four seasons in Kansas City
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1984 .298/.343/.457 122 63 dh
1985 .267/.317/.383 110 36 dh
1986 .277/.321/.411 106 44 dh
1987 .180/.226/.380 21 4 dh

Released on June 17, 1987.

Synopsis: Aikens was the Jays' second-string DH in 1984 (behind Cliff Johnson). Orta was better than Aikens after the trade, and since both of these guys were DH's and both were simply released (rather than subsequently traded), this trade is an easy one to evaluate. Verdict: slightly disadvantageous.

December 8, 1984
Toronto trades SS Alfredo Griffin and OF Dave Collins to Oakland for RP Bill Caudill.


Obtained:
Bill Caudill, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1985 69.3 4 6 14 2.99
1986 36.3 2 4 2 6.19

Signed with Oakland as a free agent on April 30, 1987.

Traded Away:
Alfredo Griffin, three seasons in Oakland
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1985 .270/.290/.332 162 59 -/+
1986 .285/.323/.364 162 70 -/+
1987 .263/.306/.348 144 52 -/+

Traded to Los Angeles on December 11, 1987.

Dave Collins, one season in Oakland
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1985 .251/.303/.346 112 39 -/+

Traded to Detroit on November 13, 1985.

Synopsis: Caudill was the second best Jays reliever in 1985 (behind Tom Henke), but was terrible in 1986. He made $1.53 million for his 6.19 era monstronsity in 1986, the fourth higest salary in the AL. With Fernandez at short, and Bell, Moseby and Barfield in the outfield, there was not much reason for Toronto to keep Griffin and Collins around. Griffin was subsequently traded by the A's in a three team deal that saw Oakland send Griffin and Jay Howell to the Dodgers, Kevin Tapani and Wally Whitehurst to the Mets, and receive Matt Young and Bob Welch from the Dodgers. Welch won 27 games and the Cy Young for Oakland in 1990, but it does not seem fair to hold a subsequent three team trade and a performance five years in the future against Gillick here. Verdict: not so good, although Griffin and Collins would have only been bench players for the mid-late 1980's Jays.

January 26, 1985
Toronto trades SP Jim Gott, Augie Schmidt and Jack McKnight to San Francisco for RP Gary Lavelle.


Obtained:
Gary Lavelle, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1985 72.7 5 7 8 3.10
1986 27.7 2 3 1 5.33

Released on August 25, 1987.

Traded Away:
Jim Gott, three seasons in San Francisco
Year  ip    w  l  era
1985 148.3 7 10 3.88
1986 13 0 0 7.62
1987 56 1 0 4.50

Claimed off waivers by Pittsburgh on August 3, 1987.

Neiter Augie Schmidt nor Jack McKnight played in San Francisco.

Synopsis: Gott was probably better than Lavelle in the years subsequent to the trade, but it was fairly close. Verdict: innocuous.

April 1, 1985
Toronto trades RP Daved Shipanoff, SS Jose Escobar and Ken Kinnard to Philadelphia for DH Len Matuszek.


Obtained:
Len Matuszek, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1985 .212/.259/.318 62 12 dh

Traded to Los Angeles on July 9, 1985.

Traded Away:
David Shipanoff, one season in Philadelphia
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1985 36.3 1 2 3 3.22


Neiter Ken Kinnard nor Jose Escobar played for Philadelphia.

Synopsis: Shipanoff out-contributed Matuszek in 1985, though neither was spectacular. Shipanoff pitched less than 40 innings and Matuszek was just not very good. Verdict: innocuous.

July 9, 1985
Toronto trades 1B/OF Len Matuszek to Los Angeles for DH Al Oliver.


Obtained:
Al Oliver, one season in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1985 .251/.282/.374 61 19 dh

Granted free agency on November 12, 1985.

Traded Away:
Len Matuszek, three seasons in Los Angeles
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1985 .222/.307/.429 43 20 +/-
1986 .261/.333/.432 91 28 +/-
1987 .067/.125/.067 16 0 +/-


Synopsis: of the four stat lines here, Matuszek's 1986 is the best. Verdict: slightly disadvantageous.

August 29, 1985
Toronto trades SP Matt Williams, Jeff Mays and Greg Forlanda to Texas for DH Cliff Johnson.


Obtained:
Cliff Johnson, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rg
1985 .274/.349/.375 24 8 dh
1986 .250/.355/.426 107 50 dh

Granted free agency on November 12, 1986.

Traded Away:
Matt Williams, one season in Texas
Year  ip    w  l  era
1985 26 2 1 2.42


Neither Jeff Mays nor Greg Forlanda played for Texas.

Synopsis: Cliff Johnson, the all-time pinch hit homerun leader (20), was good for Toronto in 1985 and 1986 in limited playing time. In the 1985 ALCS vs. Kansas City, Johnson went .368/.400/.474 as the Jays' DH in a losing effort. Texas only got 24 innings out of Williams. Verdict: good trade.

July 5, 1986
Toronto trades SP Doyle Alexander to Atlanta for RP Duane Ward.


Obtained:
Duane Ward, nine seasons in Toronto
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1986 2 0 1 0 13.50
1987 11.7 1 0 0 6.94
1988 111.7 9 3 15 3.30
1989 114.7 4 10 15 3.77
1990 127.7 2 8 11 3.45
1991 107.3 7 6 23 2.77
1992 101.3 7 4 12 1.95
1993 71.7 2 3 45 2.13
1995 2.7 0 1 0 27.00

Granted free agency on November 2, 1995.

Traded Away:
Doyle Alexander, two seasons in Atlanta
Year  ip    w  l  era
1986 117.3 6 6 3.84
1987 117.7 5 10 4.13

Traded to Detroit on August 12, 1987.

Synopsis: Duane Ward gave the Jays six seasons of superb relief pitching while serving as Henke's setup man until taking over the closing duties in 1993. In 1993 he was an all-star, lead the league in saves and finished fifth in the AL Cy Young voting. Alexander was traded to the Tigers during the 1987 season, then went 9-0, 1.53 and finished fourth in AL Cy Young voting. Alexander's contribution to the 1987 Tigers surely hurt the Jays, as the two battled for the AL East title on the season's final weekend. Who did Atlanta get from Detroit in that trade? A young pitcher named John Smoltz. This trade is a tough one to call, but the aggregate effects of Alexander's contribution to the Tigers' 1987 pennant drive and the arrival of John Smoltz in Atlanta probably mean that Toronto drew the short straw here. Verdict: Atlanta did better than Toronto here, by virtue of eventually landing Smoltz. That being said, the Jays got someone special in Duane Ward.

July 6, 1986
Toronto trades RP Jim Acker to Atlanta for SP Joe Johnson.


Obtained:
Joe Johnson, two seasons in Toronto
Year  ip   w  l  era
1986 88 7 2 3.89
1987 66.7 3 5 5.13

Taken by California on December 7, 1987 in the Rule 5 Draft.

Traded Away:
Jim Acker, four seasons in Atlanta
Year  ip    w  l  sv  era
1986 95 3 8 0 3.79
1987 114.7 4 9 14 4.16
1988 42 0 4 0 4.71
1989 97.7 0 6 0 2.67

Traded back to Toronto on August 24, 1989

Synopsis: Acker gave Atlanta more good innings than Johnson gave Toronto. Even though the Jays would get Acker back in the summer of 1989, the four seasons he spent in Atlanta in the interim would have looked good in the Jays pen. Verdict: a poor trade.

February 2, 1987
Toronto trades 2B Damaso Garcia and RP Luis Leal to Atlanta for RP Craig McMurtry.


Obtained:
Craig McMurtry did not play for Toronto. He was signed as a free agent by Texas on December 8, 1987.

Traded Away:
Damaso Garcia, one season in Atlanta
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1988 .117/.159/.183 21 1 +/+

Released on May 17, 1988.

Luis Leal did not pitch for Atlanta.

Synopsis: not much here. But since Atlanta shelled out a combined $1.34 million for Garcia in 1987 (when he did not play) and 1988 (when he played very poorly), the Jays did better. Verdict: slightly advantageous.

July 14, 1987
Toronto trades P Luis Aquino to Kansas City for DH Juan Beniquez.


Obtained:
Juan Beniquez, two seasons in Toronto
Year  avg./obp./slg.  gms  rc  fld/rf
1987 .284/.330/.556 39 14 dh
1988 .293/.373/.379 27 8 dh

Released on May 31, 1988.

Traded Away:
Luis Aquino, five seasons in Kansas City
Year  ip     w  l  sv  era
1988 29 1 0 0 2.79
1989 141.3 6 8 0 3.50
1990 68.3 4 1 0 3.16
1991 157 8 4 3 3.44
1992 67.7 3 6 0 4.52

Purchased by Florida on March 27, 1993.

Synopsis: Beniquez had some good rate stats in 1987 and 1988, but never got much playing time. Aquino gave the Royals some solid innings, never costing more than $160,000 per season until 1992. Verdict: a poor trade.

August 31, 1987
Toronto trades SP Oswaldo Peraza and SP Jose Mesa to Baltimore for SP Mike Flanagan.


Obtained:
Mike Flanagan, four seasons in Toronto
Year  ip     w  l  era
1987 49.3 3 2 2.33
1988 211 13 13 4.18
1989 171.7 8 10 3.93
1990 20.3 2 2 5.31

Released on May 8, 1990.

Traded Away:
Oswaldo Peraza, one season in Baltimore
Year  ip    w  l  era
1988 86 5 7 5.55


Jose Mesa, four seasons in Baltimore
Year  ip     w  l  era
1987 31.3 1 3 6.03
1990 46.7 3 2 3.86
1991 123.7 6 11 5.97
1992 61.7 3 8 5.19

Traded to Cleveland on July 14, 1992.

Synopsis: acquiring Flanagan was Pat Gillick's response to the Tigers picking up Doyle Alexander for the stretch run in 1987. Flanagan gave Toronto two full seasons of slightly above average starting pitching in 1988 and 1989, whereas Mesa only hurt Baltimore in three of his four seasons there. The Orioles traded Mesa to Cleveland in 1992 in exchange for minor leaguer Kyle Washington, who never played a game for Baltimore. Verdict: good trade.
Blue Jays All-Time Annotated Trade Catalogue, Part Two : Pat Gillick, The Age Of Innocence (1977-1987) | 49 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_NIck - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 01:53 AM EST (#80120) #
Wow. Great work.

One quibble, though. It seems awefully unfair to evaluate a trade by taking into account what another team got for the player(s) the Jays traded them. For example, verdict pronounced on the Ward/Alexander trade is that they Jays lost the deal. This is clearly not the case. The Jays vastly improved themselves by dealing Alexander for Ward - how can they be said to have "lost" the trade.

I think the errant assumption is that a trade is a zero sum event. It clearly isn't. A trade quite clearly can benefit both teams as in the case of the Alexander/Ward trade and it really shouldn't be called a loss.
Pistol - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 09:07 AM EST (#80121) #
I agree with Nick. That was fun to go through and I look forward to the next 11 years.
Leigh - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 10:32 AM EST (#80122) #
I think the errant assumption is that a trade is a zero sum event. It clearly isn't. A trade quite clearly can benefit both teams as in the case of the Alexander/Ward trade and it really shouldn't be called a loss.

My point is that Atlanta benefitted more from the trade than Toronto did. Toronto got: the value of Ward - Alexander's counter-value to the Jays as a Tiger in 1987. Atlanta got: a half season of Alexander and the value of Smoltz. So, the Jays improved, yes; but the Braves improved more.
Leigh - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 10:36 AM EST (#80123) #
It seems awefully unfair to evaluate a trade by taking into account what another team got for the player(s) the Jays traded them.

Right. It's more fun than fair. But part of a player's value is what he can bring in a trade. Is it fair to say that Gillick dropped the ball because he should have just traded Doyle directly to the Tigers for Smoltz? Probably not, but that's who the Braves got.
Mike D - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 10:46 AM EST (#80124) #
Not to take away from this outstanding article, Leigh, but I agree with Nick on this one. If this is about assessing the performance of the general manager, you have to evaluate who was added and who was deleted on the GM's side of the equation.

Cruz for Griffin was a good trade for the Jays. It isn't rendered neutral, in my opinion, by Cruz subsequently being part of a package in which Cleveland made out like bandits. At least it doesn't render Gillick's performance in the trade to be neutral.

Having said that, this has been an amazing memory-refresher -- thanks for the pinch-hit! I didn't realize that Oliver played so poorly as a Blue Jay.
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 11:10 AM EST (#80125) #
How 'bout looking at the Ward-Alexander-Smoltz deal this way?

Blue Jays get Ward, lose Alexander- short term loss outweighed by long term gain

Tigers get Alexander lose Smoltz- short term gain tremendously outweighed by long term loss

Braves lose Ward get Smoltz- large long term gain (primarily due to Ward's injury)

Braves and Blue Jays win, Tigers lose.

To look at the trade another way, the acquisition of Doyle Alexander definitely helped the Tigers win the 87 division title over the Jays. Smoltz definitely would have helped them compete with the Jays of 91 and 93 (the Tigers won 84 and 85 games without him), although it is doubtful that he alone would have made up the 7 (1991) and 10 (1993) game difference between the clubs.
Leigh - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 11:38 AM EST (#80126) #
If this is about assessing the performance of the general manager, you have to evaluate who was added and who was deleted on the GM's side of the equation.

That's right, Mike D. Except that this is not about assessing the performance of the general manager. This is about, to loosely quote the intro, tracking the results of trades and the effects thereof of the evolution and future relative success of the two teams involved.

This was never intended to be about rated a GM's performance. If that were its intent, then yes, the tracking method would have been ill-conceived.

This is merely a fun little [sic] catalogue which takes every trade to its conclusion.
Craig B - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 12:23 PM EST (#80127) #
If this is about assessing the performance of the general manager

Leigh gets it right here. I am not all that interested in assessing a GM's performance (though I'm sure some are)... ultimately a GM's performance is very well assessed by wins and losses, as opposed to his trades. I like his method; we shouldn't take it for any more than it is.

Now if someone else wanted to do a more straight-up-and-down assessment of the trades to rate the GMs, I'd be all ears. The nice thing is, Leigh has already done the legwork!

By the way, when all the parts are posted, I think we are going to try to put together a nice printer-ready version with all the trades together, suitable for putting in your (my) reference library.
Pepper Moffatt - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 01:15 PM EST (#80128) #
http://economics.about.com
This series absolutely rocks! I can't imagine how much time and effort you've put into this, Leigh.

Keep up the great work!

Cheers,

Mike
_Smirnoff - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 02:16 PM EST (#80129) #
Very enjoyable read. Thanks, Leigh.
_Jonny German - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 02:29 PM EST (#80130) #
Great work, Leigh. These first two installments have been a good history lesson for me, I'm a year older than the team itself and didn't start paying attention until 1989. It's a little surprising to me the number of names which I don't recognize at all, and interesting to see the numbers on some that I do. I had no idea Rance Mulliniks was that good, I thought his cult popularity was mostly due to his geekiness.

Was there a change to the Rule 5 regulations in the late 1980s? I was surprised at the number of MLB veterans taken in the Rule 5.
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 02:58 PM EST (#80131) #
Jonny, Rance's story was an interesting one. He was a shortstop in the Kansas City system. He didn't field well, and couldn't hit lefties. Actually, he couldn't hit anyone real well, but lefties particularly so. But, he was obviously an intelligent hitter.

The Jays converted him to a platoon third baseman, and he prospered. By '86 and '87, he could really have had the third base job all to himself (the other half was Garth Iorg), but the manager at the time was Jimy Williams. I'll say no more. But overall, the Jays' handling of Mulliniks is an example of what a fine organization will do.

I don't know what he is doing now, but if Mulliniks had any interest in being a hitting coach, I think that he would make a fine one.
Leigh - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 03:04 PM EST (#80132) #
Was there a change to the Rule 5 regulations in the late 1980s? I was surprised at the number of MLB veterans taken in the Rule 5.

I was wondering that myself. I don't know the answer.

I'm a year older than the team itself and didn't start paying attention until 1989.

I am 3 years younger than the team; and this research was a similarly good history lesson for me.
_Nigel - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 03:27 PM EST (#80133) #
I am ten years older than the franchise and this is just an unbelievable kick to reread all these old transactions. A few still smart a few bring good memories to the forefront. As I mentioned on the part I thread, the Ashby trade was a bad one from day one. Ashby was a perfectly useful cather and he was traded essentially for Lemongello (the others were marginal prospects). The trade was bad in that I never really understood the fascination with Cerone and Lemongello had absolutely no stuff. If you want to look at a DIPS train wreck waiting to happen look at Lemongello's years in Houston prior to the trade as Exhibit 1. While he somehow managed to post league average OPS+'s his peripherals are otherwordly in terms of how bad they were. He basically had a near 1/1 BB/K ratio. His strikeout rates are around 3 per 9 INN and he was giving up over 1 HR per 9 while playing his home games in the ASTRODOME (which was hard to do). They make Lurch's numbers look like the second coming of Sandy Koufax (ok maybe not that good!).

I know I have to just let it go!
_Matthew E - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 03:58 PM EST (#80134) #
And that's not even taking into account the way Lemongello would lose his temper and throw an ashtray at someone's head or something.
_Nigel - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 04:46 PM EST (#80135) #
I'm guessing his aim in that was as good as it was on the mound!
_S.K. - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 05:45 PM EST (#80136) #
Terrific stuff - I'm 4 years younger than the team (I think I win so far!) so some of this stuff was a great magnifying glass on events I had only been loosely familiar with.
I tend to like "grade the GM" type stuff, but I understood that this was not Leigh's intention. It's fun to trace trade threads through history. Six Degrees of Doyle Alexander, anyone?
_Steve Z - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 06:27 PM EST (#80137) #
I don't know what he is doing now, but if Mulliniks had any interest in being a hitting coach, I think that he would make a fine one.

Sorry, i just had to bite on this one... You see, the "where are they now" series has always been one of my favourites!

Mulliniks, who was a hitting coach of the Shreveport Swamp Dragons (the Giants' AA affiliate) as recently as 2001, is now a realtor for Century 21 in Visalia, California. He's pictured here at a recent charity golf tournament, and I couldn't resist the urge to do some more digging. I wonder whether Rance would step into da Box for an inteview?
Joe - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 07:20 PM EST (#80138) #
http://me.woot.net
S.K., this may come down to a photo finish. When in 1981 were you born?
_Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 07:55 PM EST (#80139) #
I'm nine years younger than the team (ha!) ;-) and it has been a learning experience ever since I stumbled across this little corner of the internet during it's first week open. I've enjoyed reading every bit of this, Leigh, and was surprised by the numbers of productive players I'd never heard of(especially Cliff Johnson). I've baseball-referenced the Mosebys and Bells and Barfields often enough, but I was surprised to see just how decent guys like Johnson, Rico Carty, and Luis Leal were. The anecdotal evidence presented here about players of the like has been even more fun.
Pepper Moffatt - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 08:03 PM EST (#80140) #
http://economics.about.com
You're all making me feel very old! Knock it off!

I consider myself to be a pretty young guy, but I'm older than the everyday 3B, 2B, DH, CF, one of the two catchers, and the ace of the staff. I've only got another 15 years to perfect my knuckler. :)

Cheers,

Mike
_Jordan - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 08:30 PM EST (#80141) #
Ten years older than the team, but I didn't see my first game in person until 1989. Leigh's work here is astronomically good.

I've always thought there was a strong physical resemblance between Rance Mulliniks and Rene Auberjonois. The idea of a shape-shifter at third base for the Blue Jays is a cheerful one.
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 09:04 PM EST (#80142) #
Thanks, Steve Z for the update on Rance Mulliniks. A hitting coach recently, and now living in Visalia, eh?
_A - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 09:50 PM EST (#80143) #
You're all just old men. I'm November, 1984 =D
_Spicol - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 10:07 PM EST (#80144) #
Speaking of Rance, here's his recent and very interesting take on the Pete Rose saga:

Mulliniks compared Rose's gambling to another scandal that rocked baseball in the 1980's, as major league owners conspired in the middle of the decade to not sign any free agents..."That hurt the game, and the owners were punished," Mulliniks said. "Pete admitted to his wrongdoing and he was punished."
_Donkit R.K. - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 11:11 PM EST (#80145) #
July 1986, by the way.
_MatO - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 11:27 PM EST (#80146) #
I'm one year older than Bell, Moseby and Barfield. I was at the first game (really!!). Mulliniks was my favourite player in the 80's. Lemongello later fell afoul with the law. Kidnapping or something like that.
Craig B - Tuesday, January 27 2004 @ 11:40 PM EST (#80147) #
I am exactly one year younger than Ray Durham... I was also a big Mulliniks fan. Mulliniks, Fernandez, Key, Whitt, Moseby, and Barfield were all my heroes.
_peteski - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 01:11 AM EST (#80148) #
Just wanted to say this is awesome
Thomas - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 08:36 AM EST (#80149) #
Are any of you official members of the Rance Mulliniks fan club? I am despite the fact he racked up 3 seasons in Toronto before I was born. That being said, he was my first favourite player, along with George Bell, Dave Steib and Tom Henke, although I always have a soft spot for Rance. It's tough enough to pick a favourite now, it's about impossible when you are 5 years old.
_3RunHomer - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 04:19 PM EST (#80150) #
Doyle Alexander was traded for some real talent during his career:
Frank Robinson
Scott McGregor
Ward
Smoltz
_Matthew E - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 04:35 PM EST (#80151) #
July 1986, by the way.

That's when you were born? That's about a month after I became a fan. Boy, did you miss some good stuff.
_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 04:44 PM EST (#80152) #
Yes, Matthew, I am still a youngin' of 17. I am a pretty big sports buff, though, so I'm at least vaguely aware of the "good stuff" you mention (more so than most people my age, anyway). I can remember being excited about the WS years, but never became a real fan I'd say until the last year or two of the Gord Ash era and not a big fan until J.P.'s first season (coinciding closely with the discovery of this site).
_jason - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 06:40 PM EST (#80153) #
Old, so old.
But seriously, did you ever see such desparate attempts to find a dh. Often considered the easiest part of a line up to procure, the Jays and Pat Gillick would tie themselves up in knots to find capable hitters, this when they were competitive and in the hunt for the playoffs. An endless parade of the likes of Len Mawhatits, Willie Aikens (anyone remember James' potrait of his defence? Hillarious.), Al Oliver, Jeff Burroughs, Jorge Orta, etc. etc.. Each one came to us as the answer, each was found wanting. And when they did find a capable hitter, a Cliff Johnson say, turns out there is no one to hit from the left side of the plate. Made you want to pull your hair out.

Just as a lesson to youse young whippsnappers here, and in keeping with the favorite player tenet of late, here's a snippet of the type of hitter Johnson was. He would almost never swing at the first strike. He would watch it go by with disdain and indifference. But, every once in a while, when there were impotant runners on base, or in the late innings of a close game, that get ahead fastball was feasted upon. It didn't always work, but when he did connect it usually found its way into the seats.
Always fun remembering.
Cheers jason
_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 07:47 PM EST (#80154) #
Between stats for his two Jays seasons and anecdotal evidence, Cliff Johnson sounds like a helluva player.

BTW, gotta go with VDub as the favorite current player and Robbie Alomar as no. 1 all-time (though with the decline, V-Dub could pass him in due time)
_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 07:54 PM EST (#80155) #
Looking at his career numbers, I have to ask if anyone here knows why Cliff isn't a bigger star? Was he injury prone or could he just not break into a starting role for most of his career? Inept platoon splits? That 1977 (171 OPS + in over 250 AB) looks pretty nice.
_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 08:55 PM EST (#80156) #
I guess that should read "wasn't".
Coach - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 10:46 PM EST (#80157) #
I notice there isn't as much competition to claim the title of oldest Bauxite. Just because I started watching on TV before they were broadcasting in colour, and was a big fan of Musial and Spahn, I like to pretend I'm a geezer, but I know there are others who think I'm a mere pup.

All those who saw Mazeroski's homer live, raise your hands if you still can. I had been paying attention for a couple of years, but that's my earliest indelible baseball memory. That Mays kid was pretty good, too. I've yet to see his equal.

Despite my seniority, I saw virtually nothing of the expansion-era Jays. I trained horses at various U.S. tracks from 1975 until 1982. "My team" for 20 years had been the Cardinals, but it was a very pleasant surprise to discover that the local nine could actually play a little, and I soon became an avid fan. Though Steib and Barfield were my favourites, I liked them all, except for Joey McLaughlin.
_jason - Wednesday, January 28 2004 @ 11:46 PM EST (#80158) #
Hello Donkit;
According to what Bill James was writing at the time of Johnson's tenure with the Jays, Cliff Johnson could have been a hall of famer. His argument was that Johnson while a certifiable hitter was a victim of circumstances. The team he was drafted by, the Astros, tried to make him into a catcher; this did nothing to help his chances. Secondly he played in the Astrodome which was hell on power hitters and forced the team to rely on speed. This was not Johnsons game. As good squire James saw it, were Johnson installed at first base in Fenway Park, his career would have been much different. Take it for what you will.
Regards, jason.
_Donkit R.K. - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 04:41 PM EST (#80159) #
Thank you, Jason. I was also thinking that the lack of sabrmetric thinking at the time could hurt. What really stands out about him is his OBP and SLG. It'd be interesting if his playing career were just getting under way now...
_Matthew E - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 05:26 PM EST (#80160) #
All those who saw Mazeroski's homer live, raise your hands if you still can.

Not me, man. You know what day I was born? I looked it up once on some 'this date in baseball history' thing. I was born the day that the Supreme Court turned down Curt Flood's suit against baseball. Every time I think of that I feel this odd kind of guilt, like Flood's verdict was my fault for being born, or something.
Craig B - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 06:01 PM EST (#80161) #
My birthdate in baseball history...

November 30, 1972

The Reds obtain outfielder Richie Scheinblum and pitcher Roger Nelson from the Royals for Hal McRae.

Who-hoo! Richie Scheinblum!

Go to nationalpastime.com and use the "Select a Date" feature at the bottom of the left-hand sidebar.
_Donkit R.K. - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 06:56 PM EST (#80162) #
On my birthdate, nothing of significance happended (July 20, 1986) though in 1859 on that date the first fans to pay to see a ball game, well, paid to see a ball game. Donnie Baseball set the record for putouts in a single game (22) on my first birthday.
Pepper Moffatt - Thursday, January 29 2004 @ 10:42 PM EST (#80163) #
http://economics.about.com
Retrosheet is another great place to go for "This Day in History" stuff. Just go to "Boxscores & Goodies" and select the year you want.

My birthday had the infamous Terry Whitfield for Marty Perez swap. Woo.

Cheers,

Mike
_csimon - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 10:10 AM EST (#80164) #
I saw Mazeroski's homer--on TV--and I also saw the Amaros catch in 1955 and Larsen's perfect game the next year on TV. Sorry, I'm too old to raise my hand but I can peck away at the keyboard
Craig B - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 10:21 AM EST (#80165) #
My birthday had the infamous Terry Whitfield for Marty Perez swap. Woo.

Just remember, Mike, you're heading into your age-27 season. Enjoy it, because it's a steep decline from there.
Gerry - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 01:36 PM EST (#80166) #
For Cliff Johnson think of a cross between Joe Carter and Edgar Martinez. Cliff was a pure hitter, although sometimes he was fooled. But he could work a pitcher to get his pitch.
_Donkit R.K. - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 01:43 PM EST (#80167) #
Thank you, Gerry. That's an interesting combination.
Mike Green - Friday, January 30 2004 @ 02:04 PM EST (#80168) #
In addition to being a fine hitter, Heathcliff had a distinctive personality. Tart and sour are two words that come to mind. He did have a good scowl; I don't remember him hitting against Dave Stewart, but that would have been fun- the death stare against the monster's scowl. I can envision the right umpire saying matter-of-factly after about 15 seconds to the catcher: "that's enough of the preliminaries, get them down to business".
Blue Jays All-Time Annotated Trade Catalogue, Part Two : Pat Gillick, The Age Of Innocence (1977-1987) | 49 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.