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Ain't it the truth!

To appeciate the Jays as a fan these days you have to know the BUDGET, the BIG LEAGUE TEAM and the MINORS. I really enjoy plotting where our BUDGET is going (05-10), who in the MINORS can fill whatever holes that will be created by the graduation of 6 year players to free agency, etc.

We will compete in 04. In 06 to 08 we should have a spectacular team. If JP keeps up the quality drafts we should be at least OK past 08.

Yea, 100 Million payroll would be great, but we'll be the best 50 Million dollar team, and better than lots of the more expensive teams too. Can we beat NY & the Sox? Maybe not this year, but at the least we'll be their worst nightmare!

Two interesting quotes by JP: Rios best prospect in the minors and being cautious by putting the jays for 86 to 90 wins

The Jays and O's "may be two of the most improved teams in the game this winter." Uh oh, don't let RG see that. He'd accuse McAdam of snowing the public.

Just kind of wondering...people always talk about teams being over payroll but its always major league payroll. How do teams deal with minor league budgets and payroll? If a team wants to save money could they cut minor league payroll and still maintain the same major league payroll? Also are teams with high minor league payrolls top teams like in the majors? I'm not sure where to find this information.

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Just kind of wondering...people always talk about teams being over payroll but its always major league payroll. How do teams deal with minor league budgets and payroll? If a team wants to save money could they cut minor league payroll and still maintain the same major league payroll?

It'd be completely up to ownership how they want to parcel out the money. There are no MLB rules. I imagine each team handles it differently.

Cheers,

Mike

It would be great to see Rogers give Ricciardi a bigger budget in 2005-08, which would allow him to add a key player or two at the right time (Winfield, Molitor, Morris, anyone?). Perhaps this will happen if the balance sheet improves (based on a stronger Canadian dollar, better marketing, continued on-field performance, etc.). I don't know enough about the team's - or Rogers's - fiscal situation to know how realistic this scenario is.

I expect that JP can keep the Jays competitive with his current budget. But will "competitive" be enough to fill the Skydome?

OK number crunchers!! can anyone figure out how the strengthened Canadian dollar might effect the Jays payroll, and if the dollar remains strong how much can we expect the jays payroll to increase?

How do teams deal with minor league budgets and payroll?

It's an interesting question. I think that minor-leaguers' salaries are pretty much consistent across the board -- a Dunedin Blue Jay is making about the same as a Vero Beach Dodger or Clearwater Phillie. The difference probably comes primarily in these areas:

1. Scouting and Drafting: the number of scouts, their experience, travel and research expenses, etc. is important. You could also include overseas operations and academies -- the Caribbean, South America, East Asia -- in this category. And of course, signing bonuses for your higher-round draft picks are an issue.

2. Training & Development: this is a little harder to pin down. I'm thinking here of the number and quality of permanent and roving minor-league instructors, training facilities, video and DVD recording of prospects' at-bats and pitches, seminars for coaches and managers, that sort of thing.

3. Farm Club Expenses: I've never fully understood the division of costs between the big-league team and the farm club, in terms of things like ballpark maintenance, equipment, supplies, marketing, staff and player payroll, insurance, and so forth. I imagine they're split, but I don't know in what percentage.

I'm sure there are other areas that other Bauxites could identify. The degree to which you're committed to your minor-league system will probably be reflected in the amount of money you allocate to it. If we ever do a follow-up interview with Jon Lalonde, this would be a very interesting topic to raise.

I don't know where the Jays fit into the spectrum of minor-league spending; assuming that they're as limited in their farm expenses as they are in their major-league payroll, they're probably operating the same way: on a tight budget, but with intelligence and innovation. I have the impression from somewhere that Cleveland spends scads of money on their farm system.

Do the first, second, third round picks make more than the other guys or is this usually all tied up in their initial bonus? And do any first rounders get guaranteed major league contracts anymore?

As a general rule, I think, the players earn about the same salary, but the top draft picks get the signing bonuses. Here's an example: the Blue Jays' 2003 draft and signing bonuses. After the first few selections, the bonuses are more reasonable.

It's rare to see ML contracts given to draftees, but you'll still find a few. I believe Rickie Weeks has one from Milwaukee.

One point I forgot to mention is that minor league teams are individually owned, at least partially. I'm not too sure on how this works but I know Cal Ripkin has one and well as various other people. I think this is why minor league teams relocate more often than major league teams. That may help to pay of the minor league budget although I have no idea how much. You sometimes see teams switching allegiances too and I have even less of an idea how that works. It seems kind of off to me to have a team operated under different ownership but have the players belong to the big club. Maybe I'm mixing everything up here but it seems that if teams spend more on their minor league teams than they would have better teams and prospects. Cleveland would be a good example because they always have a decent sounding team but I'm not sure if they do.

I know this question fits in the "canadian Lumber" category, but I have not been online in a few days. I posted this question in that section but wonder if anyone will go back to look at it so I will post it here:

Whatever happened to the Cooper Bats? At one point, many major league players, especially Blue Jays, were using them.

Did Cooper stop manufacturing them for major league players?

can anyone figure out how the strengthened Canadian dollar might effect the Jays payroll, and if the dollar remains strong how much can we expect the jays payroll to increase?

I'm the farthest thing from an economist -- paging Mike Moffatt! -- so I couldn't even hazard a guess. But I can say this: Paul Godfrey has spent the better part of the last two years complaining about the low Canadian dollar and how the Blue Jays are being pummelled by "the exchange rate" (note: the "exchange rate" is not the same as the difference between the fundamental value of the US and Canadian dollar). Funny thing, though: as our dollar has risen over the past several months, we haven't been hearing from Paul on this topic. If the dollar continues to rise even more, and the Jays simply pocket the extra cash without comment, I think Paul will have some splainin' to do.

OK number crunchers!! can anyone figure out how the strengthened Canadian dollar might effect the Jays payroll, and if the dollar remains strong how much can we expect the jays payroll to increase?

The impact of the stronger Canadian dollar on the Jays depends on a number of factors, most of which we know nothing about.

1. The simple impact of the change on a US$50 mil payroll would be about CAN$15 mil. That assumes an exchange rate reduction from 1.6 to 1.3. That would be a CAN$15 mil pickup for the Jays.

2. The numbers in #1 would first be impacted by how the Jays use forward exchange contracts. I believe I read last year that the Jays did not benefit as much as you might have expected from the rate reduction because they had bought their US dollars in advance. If so then 2004 would see their first benefit from the lower rates.

3. The Jays have more US impacts than their major league payroll. The do have revenues in US dollars. The national TV contracts (Fox, ESPN) are in US dollars. I am sure JP Ricciardi is paid in US dollars. Various scouting, minor league, travel, and spring training costs would be in US dollars. What we do not know is the net of all of these inflows and outflows.

4. The Jays may have received some exchange rate equalization money from MLB in the past. They probably will not get that money in 2004.

I think you can safely assume that the impact is positive. How much is unknown. I know that Paul Godfrey used to complain about the exchange rates when they were high. We will see what he will say now that the rates are better for the Jays.

I think one of the fears of those who advocate a MLB salary cap is the sudden blowout of minor league salaries that would almost certainly ensue.

If the Yankees were capped at, say, $80M, can you imagine how good the $80M Columbus Clippers would suddenly become?

If the dollar continues to rise even more, and the Jays simply pocket the extra cash without comment, I think Paul will have some splainin' to do.

Nah. I imagine they will pocket the cash - their prerogative, and it may offset some of the crushing losses of the past couple of years - but I'm sure it will put ownership in a much more receptive mood should Ricciardi ask for some more dough to :

(1) bolster the roster near the trade deadline for the pennant race;

(2) sign Halladay long-term to a reasonable deal; or

(3) re-sign Captain Carlos for 2005 if they can get close.

Don't expect to see Rogers up the budget for the Jays anytime soon. I work closely with their company and I can tell you one thing about them...

CHEAP!!!!!!

They'll do anything to cut corners and have no qualms about pushing out an inferior product just to save a few bucks. Sorry to say it but it'll be up to JP to use his brain rather than the corporate chequebook to make this team a serious contender.

I don't think that's an accurate characterization of Rogers (or of their relationship to the team) but I can't get into an argument over this.

Suffice it to say that they are an extremely successful business.

I am sure JP Ricciardi is paid in US dollars

Really? I would think any employee of the team, excluding players, would be paid in Canadian dollars. Unless of course it was something he negiotiated with the team when he did his own contract (which very well may be the case if he's living in the US and wouldn't want a fluctuation in his income due to dollar movements - so I think I just talked myself into beliving the initial statement).

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Nah. I imagine they will pocket the cash - their prerogative, and it may offset some of the crushing losses of the past couple of years

Agreed.

I don't think it will make much difference to the budget at all. It'll make a difference to the bottom line of the club. The degree of difference it will make will depend on what the Jays have been doing in the currency futures, options, bond markets etc. Heck, it's possible (but very unlikely) that the upswing in the currency could make them worse off in the short run.

I imagine, though, that the Jays will be made better off by the increasing Canuck dollar. They'll probably just use the money to improve their balance sheet. I don't believe that they've been losing $56 million a year or some of the other fun with numbers, but the club probably has been a large-ish money loser over the last few years.

The Jays payroll will only increase if the investment in player salaries will cause a larger increase in team revenue. The only way I see that happening is if the Jays think they've got a great shot at making the playoffs.

I can't see the Jays ever being a high payroll team again. Toronto only cares about the Leafs; the Jays and their possible playoff contention has too much of a "been there, done that" feeling to most Torontonians.

Cheers,

Mike

Mike,

I both disagree and agree with you...

In terms of the "been there, done that" feel that you speak of...that would appear to be the way it is. However, even more than that, I can say that living in Toronto, this city is the biggest bandwagon jumper you'll ever see. The Leafs are a freak of nature. Their popularity and following is a mystery...much like the Cubs. In terms of any other sport, event, attraction, etc, in this city, people will flock to whatever appears to be the fashionable event. If the Jays can somehow make it fashionable (and I think they'll have to be a serious contender for a couple of years for that to happen), they will come back.

What I agree with is that I don't see the Jays being a high payroll team again...at least, not with its current ownership.

Craig B,

I don't want to get into the argument over the quality of Rogers as business, however, I find that fascinating that a monopoly could lose money. Be that as it may, I hope they do a bangup job as owners of the BlueJays.

Rogers isn't a monopoly. While it is true that they have a monopoly-like position in particular cable markets, they face competition from satellite providers which are offering (essentially) the same service.

If the Jays don;t have the finances to put Halladay under wraps, what are the next steps for ensuring that he remains the Toronto ace for a long while?

Any legally-protected monopoly position (like cable TV in certain areas, though as Robert points out they face competition from near-identical produicts) is going to be accompanied by greater or lesser regulation.

Rogers' position as a heavily (very heavily) regulated business, by the most heavy-handed regulator in the country outside the nuclear industry (CRTC), does make it difficult for them to take full advantage of their position. It's the nature of the game.

ESPN's poll today asks, "Which team has the best chance to make the postseason in '04?" The choices are Blue Jays, Orioles, Padres, Rockies and Royals.

I voted for the Royals, because, hey, AL Central. When the results came up, it had the Royals leading at 41.9%, the Orioles second at 25.2%, the Padres third at 13.9%, the Jays fourth at 11.8% and the Rockies fifth at 7.0%.

Again:
Jays 11.8%
Orioles 25.2%

The average Joe Sportssurfer thinks that Baltimore has twice as good a chance as Toronto does of making the playoffs.

I say this is all to the good. The lower the expectations the general public has of the Jays, the better; a strong third-place finish (which I figure is the most likely outcome) would look all the more like an accomplishment and be somewhat more appealing to your average fan.

Looking ahead to the preseason magazines and predictions from various newspapers and websites . . . how does everyone think they'll line up? How many of them will put Boston ahead of New York, or Baltimore ahead of Toronto, or Tampa Bay anywhere but last? I'm going to be interested to see.

Good point Matthwe E, I like the underdog status. However, that is Joe Ballfan, not Joe Jaysfan who knows what Toronto has done to improve and therefore expects more.