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Here's my report card for September. This is a happy occasion: as expected, the Jays beat up on the American League's weaker sisters in September. It's too bad nobody outside the Greater Toronto Area noticed. Oh, well - it's the same as it ever was.

A full year report will follow sometime soon.

Hitting

Dave Berg
.292 .320 .375
Batted only 24 times in September. Walked only once. The least memorable of the Jays. He's the baseball equivalent of an evening spent eating meatloaf, reading a few pages from a mildly entertaining novel, and going to bed early: a bit dull, but you have no regrets the next day.
Grade: B (the meatloaf of grades)

Mike Bordick
.229 .316 .300
Awe-inspiring defense, but unimpressive offense. Drew a lot of walks this month: his total of nine free passes was third on the team in September, trailing only Delgado and Hinske. Sometimes, players at the tail end of their careers draw more walks, as they are letting pitches go by when they can't hit them; eventually, the league catches on, and it's Sayonara. I don't know whether this is happening to Bordick, but perhaps this is why he is strongly considering retirement. If he goes, he'll be missed; Halladay, in particular, enjoyed seeing Mr. Mike scoop all those ground balls up the middle.
Grade: B-, because of his defense

Kevin Cash
.125 .164 .203
Let's start with the good news: Cash didn't strike out all that much in September. He fanned 13 times in 64 at-bats, which isn't a great total, but indicates that he's not totally clueless out there. And, as advertised, his defense is otherworldly: he can pounce on a wild pitch or slow dribbler, immediately locate where he is on the diamond, and then zip a perfect throw wherever he needs to put it. Now, the bad news: his offensive numbers imply that he is bringing one of those stick-shaped child's flotation devices to the plate instead of a bat. If he doesn't do better than that at the plate, his future relationship with baseball in Toronto will consist of paying his way into the SkyDome and trying to get Guillermo Quiroz to sign his scorebook.
Grade: a provisional D-

Frank Catalanotto
.273 .347 .455
An uneventful month, as Cat lost playing time in September to nagging injuries, Reed Johnson's hot streak, and persistent incurable lefthandedness. Like Hudson, Cat compiled September numbers that were quite similar to his season stats. Not one of the stars of the team, but he did more good than harm.
Grade: B

Howie Clark
.400 .400 .400
Went 2-for-5 after being called up. Wears his uniform socks high. You could probably swap him with Dave Berg - nobody, except possibly their wives and children, would know the difference.
Grade: Insufficient Data

Carlos Delgado
.270 .368 .539
Before his four-homer game and season-ending grand slam, this was a subpar month for Delgado by his (lofty) standards: he only had two home runs the rest of the month, drew fewer walks than usual, and struck out 27 times. I've heard rumours that he's been playing hurt this month. A hobbled Delgado is still better than just about anybody else around, mind you: he drove in 19 runs in September, which is still a league-leading pace. Statistically, at least, he reminds me a bit of one of those old martial artists who sits in one corner of the dojo and spends his days dispensing wisdom to the young disciples; every now and again, he gets up, stretches, displays awesome ninja powers, and then, after proving he's still the top dog, sits back down again.
Grade: A

Eric Hinske
.276 .356 .471
There, that looks better. Was 7-for-7 in stolen bases this month, which was more steals than the rest of the team put together. Remember when the Jays had trouble finding hitters who would do well out of the #2 slot in the batting order? Now, the Jays have lots of them: Catalanotto does well batting second, Kielty probably could handle it, and Hinske would be a perfect #2 man. I wouldn't hit and run with Hinske at the plate, though: he fanned 26 times this month. Was second on the Jays in extra-base hits, with 11. I expect him to be at this level more often next year. So does he, I assume.
Grade: A

Orlando Hudson
.262 .324 .446
His September numbers are very similar to his season numbers, which suggests that this is his true level of ability. Is still not stealing any bases; I think he's battling a leg injury or something like that. He'd be a better hitter if he drew more walks, but the Jays can live with him at second, especially given his defense. He's certainly better than Homer Bush, or being hit upside the head with a brick embedded with nails.
Grade: B

Reed Johnson
.364 .400 .545
Last month, I speculated that Johnson had reached a turning point in his career, and would have to show that he was capable of making adjustments at the major league level. It looks like he's passed this test with flying colours, as he compiled a 20-game hitting streak in September. His low walk total is worrisome - he drew only four walks in 88 at-bats - but anybody who reaches base 40% of the time is doing his job. An absolute joy to watch.
Grade: A+

Bobby Kielty
.284 .354 .448
When given the opportunity to face a lower grade of pitching, Kielty's numbers bounced back. I'm not sure what this means. Either (a) he has rebounded out of his slump, or (b) he only hits well when facing bad pitching (and it's not like the Twins face overwhelming pitching on a regular basis). Had an excellent strikeout-to-walk ratio in September: seven walks, and only eight strikeouts. This suggests that he'll likely be a useful hitter next year. It's impossible (and unfair) to judge a person by how he looks, which means I have no idea whether Kielty is smart and sophisticated, or dumb and gauche - but, boy, he sure looks like a hayseed.
Grade: A-

Greg Myers
.297 .333 .595
He'll never hit like Delgado ever again, but he hit well enough in September to suggest that he would be a useful player to retain in 2004. He can catch and serve as a lefty bat off the bench. And he'd be unlikely to complain about playing time. Only batted 37 times in September, as the Jays were giving Cash a full audition.
Grade: B+

Josh Phelps
.239 .346 .493
An interesting hitter; I haven't quite figured him out yet. His strikeout total was actually fairly low: 14 K's in 67 at-bats (as compared to 27 K in 89 at-bats for Delgado, and 26 K in 87 at-bats for Hinske). His patience at the plate is improving: he drew seven walks in 67 at-bats, which puts him over the magic "one walk every ten at-bats" Beane Seal Of Approval level. My impression is that he is still a work in progress. Had five home runs and 17 RBI in September; if you project that over a full season, you get impressive numbers indeed.
Grade: A-

Vernon Wells
.354 .389 .566
Good Lord, he's still getting better. And it's not just because he got to feast on mediocre pitching - he hit .345 in August. Still not drawing walks much, but I think that's because he's batting ahead of Delgado; after all, you can't draw a walk unless the pitcher throws you four wide ones. If his fall numbers represent his true level of offensive performance, he stands a good chance of becoming next year's MVP. I have no idea what to expect next, quite frankly - when a player's numbers begin to ascend into the stratosphere, prediction becomes difficult, as there aren't a lot of comparisons available. But, to give you an idea: this year, Vladimir Guerrero hit .330 with a slugging percentage of .586. Wells' OBP isn't at that level, but Vlad can't cover centre the way V-Dub can.
Grade: A+

Tom Wilson
.100 .182 .100
Has lost all his playing time to Kevin Cash; batted only ten times all month, despite being healthy (as far as I know). Baseball can be cruel at times. If Cash can pull it together, I can't see where Wilson fits into the equation: the Jays have a lot of 1B/OF/DH types already, and some (if not all) of them are better hitters than he is.
Grade: Missing In Action

Chris Woodward
.125 .250 .208
Expeditions of intrepid explorers have been sent to the equator and to both poles to search for Chris Woodward's career, which appears to have gone missing sometime during the summer. He isn't hitting well, he isn't fielding well, and he isn't playing much. At this point, his best hope is that Bordick retires, and Berg and Clark decide to go for a drag race on the Don Valley Parkway. Still, he could bounce back - at one point, this spring, his numbers were better than Derek Jeter's. We were all younger then.
Grade: F

Pitching

Brian Bowles
1 2/3 IP, 0 H, 1 BB, 1 SO, 0.00 ERA
Pitched only once, allowing no runs in 1 2/3 innings. He now gets to tell his grandchildren that he went an entire month without giving up a single hit. That's much better than, well, being hit on the head with a brick embedded with... never mind. (You try writing something meaningful about Brian Bowles. I dare you.)
Grade: Incomplete

Vinny Chulk
5.1 IP, 6 H, 3 BB, 2 SO, 5.06 ERA
Got beaten up, which tends to happen to marginal young pitchers that get called up in September. I don't see him having much of a future. But, whatever happens, he can say that he pitched in the major leagues, which will look really good on a resume even if he decides to go into life insurance.
Grade: Incomplete

Kelvim Escobar
30 IP, 33 H, 20 BB, 31 SO, 4.20 ERA
Gave up a few more walks than last month, but basically was the same pitcher: his ERA in August was 4.22. This suggests that, finally, he's found his level: he's a mid-level starter with power stuff and a strong arm. He's running the risk of becoming the Alex Gonzalez of pitchers: a sort of okay player who looks like he could turn the corner and become great any day now. Except that Escobar really could become great: he could become the next, er, Roy Halladay. Or he could become the next Robert Person. Or the next Rick Ankiel. That's what makes it fun to watch him: you never know what is going to happen. It's been a long weird road.
Grade: C+

Roy Halladay
51 IP, 31 H, 5 BB, 42 SO, 1.41 ERA
Of all the incredible numbers Doc put up this month, the most incredible is the first one: 51 innings pitched. That projects out to about 300 innings of top-quality pitching, and without significant arm abuse (except for the last start, in which Doc would have thrown 200 pitches, if necessary, to pick up that 22nd win). If you polled 100 baseball fans right now, and asked them whether they'd want Halladay or Loaiza to start Game 1 of the World Series for their team, I'd say that 95 of them would pick Halladay. Starting the good doctor against Detroit when shadows were obscuring home plate was an act of wanton cruelty to the Tigers.

Mind you, I'm already worrying that Halladay might have hurt his arm in his last start: pitchers always seem indestructible right up to the point at which they destruct. It's really startling how much of the franchise's success now depends on one man.
Grade: A+

Mark Hendrickson
14 IP, 21 H, 5 BB, 6 SO, 7.07 ERA
Car number 43, your time is up. When you lose your job to Pete Walker and/or Vinny Chulk, perhaps it's time to reconsider basketball as a career option. None of his September numbers look good in any way, shape, or form. If this guy starts another game for the Jays, I will write off their 2004 pennant chances.
Grade: F

Jason Kershner
12.2 IP, 11 H, 2 BB, 3 SO, 0.71 ERA
I seem to recall reading that Kershner was running out of gas in September, and his numbers show it - two walks and three strikeouts in 12 innings suggests a pitcher flinging the ball down the middle with the last of his fading strength. Mind you, this is an effective strategy when your opponents are teams like Detroit and Cleveland. He pitched well, but I hope he hasn't hurt himself permanently.
Grade: A

Cory Lidle
32.2 IP, 28 H, 12 BB, 21 SO, 4.13 ERA
Lidle recovered most of his form this month, but it's too little, too late. Surrendered five home runs, which suggests that the devils have not all been exorcised. Of the 2003 Jays, I suspect that he's the one most likely to go to a new team and then complain about his former employees. (Toronto baseball writers: keep this in mind as a subject for future columns, if you're in the mood for a little light J.P. bashing.)
Grade: C+

Aquilino Lopez
13 IP, 8 H, 4 BB, 3 SO, 1.38 ERA
As usual, came into the game whenever the Jays had a late-inning lead and it was close. Three strikeouts in 13 IP may mean that Lopez has finally been Tested To Destruction. Collected seven saves, which is impressive: if he keeps that up, the Jays will be able to trade him to the White Sox for two starting pitchers and cash. If he gets hurt, he'll sit right next to Darren Hall and Bob File on the list of relief pitchers who were good for one year and then imploded.
Grade: A+

Trever Miller
8.1 IP, 6 H, 5 BB, 8 SO, 4.32 ERA
The least heralded of the Jays to set a club record this month: he broke the record for games pitched in a season. Somehow, I don't think that, thirty years from now, we will tell our descendants that, yes, we were alive when Trever Miller was pitching in game after game after game after game after game after...
Grade: C-

Cliff Politte
4.2 IP, 3 H, 4 BB, 3 SO, 9.64 ERA
Those are some butt-ugly stats. Tosca has pretty much given up on him, going to Lopez and Miller pretty much exclusively. That's a small sample size, so you never know, but at this point I'm not expecting much.
Grade: F

Dan Reichert
6.1 IP, 11 H, 4 BB, 7 SO, 7.11 ERA
Move along, there's nothing to see here. When your ERA is equivalent to the name of a national variety store chain, it's best not to fork over a down payment on that luxury downtown Toronto condo you were considering.
Grade: F

Tanyon Sturtze
4 IP, 3 H, 2 BB, 2 SO, 4.50 ERA
Actually recorded a win in one of his two appearances this month. But don't be fooled, sports fans - he still had the 9th worst ERA on the staff. I suppose that's better than having the 11th worst ERA on the staff, but that's like saying that Buckley's Mixture is more tasty than cod-liver oil. Helped the team most during the final three games of the season, when he was suspended for his part in the Great Cuzzi Dispute.
Grade: D-, since I'm feeling magnanimous

Josh Towers
24.2 IP, 25 H, 2 BB, 25 SO, 3.65 ERA
Has boiled pitching down to its essence: throw strikes, and hope that the batters either miss the ball or hit it someplace harmless. So far, it seems to be working, but Towers did allow five home runs in September when pitching against teams that aren't exactly scary. I won't be convinced that Towers is effective until I see him survive pitching in Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park; after all, Brandon Lyon used to throw strikes too. But you can't argue with a K/BB ratio of 12.5 to 1, or a won-lost record of 3-0. Apparently has a grudge against the Orioles, which makes him popular in my book.
Grade: A-

Pete Walker
14.2 IP, 14 H, 1 BB, 6 SO
Pitched kind of okay, which is what Pete Walker does. You can't ride him to victory, but he won't hurt you. Is probably kind to children and small dogs, too. Walked only one batter all month, which is a good way to keep a manager happy. Every staff needs a guy who can start when necessary or pitch long relief when needed. One warning cloud: six strikeouts in 14.2 innings suggests that his arm isn't quite back up to snuff yet.
Grade: B+
Blue Jays Report Card for September 2003 - Hitters and Pitchers | 42 comments | Create New Account
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_Jurgen - Monday, September 29 2003 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#89276) #
Mind you, I'm already worrying that Halladay might have hurt his arm in his last start

What?
_Wildrose - Monday, September 29 2003 @ 06:04 PM EDT (#89277) #
As always very entertaining.
_Mark - Monday, September 29 2003 @ 07:27 PM EDT (#89278) #
Geez, there's concern and then full paranoia. I don't think one 122-pitch start in a 2 hour 7 minute game is anything to worry about!

Great writeup though. Dunno if I would have given Kielty an A-, I'd say a B to B- is probably fairer. And other than his Day of Pure Awesomeness, I'm not sure Delgado's month ranks an A by his lofty standards. But I'm just quibbling.
Dave Till - Monday, September 29 2003 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#89279) #
Geez, there's concern and then full paranoia. I don't think one 122-pitch start in a 2 hour 7 minute game is anything to worry about!

I suspect you're right - especially considering that he has a lot of time to rest after the start. :-) But it's a little scary to realize how much is resting on one right arm. Baseball is not for the faint of heart.

(As far as I know, Jurgen, his arm is just fine.)
Gerry - Monday, September 29 2003 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#89280) #
I noticed a difference in Cash from the first of the month to the last week or ten days. Initially he was usually gone in 3 or 4 pitches, but lately he has taken a few walks and been more selective. He had a multi-hit game and a homer in the last week.

I am not saying he is a .300 hitter, but he will be better than .130. I would guess .225 next year with a push to .250 the year after.
_Don - Monday, September 29 2003 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#89281) #
Hinske: is well over rated and after the third year when R. is trying to unload him don't say I didn't tell you.
Manager: D- at best: Why is he still learning on the job. If I was a reliever on the jays I would ask for a trade. He gives only Lopez confidence. and has no idea od baseball strategy for the team. Let's get an experienced Bench coach to-day.
I gave up my tickets after 1995 and since then the jays strive for 3rd. Well they did not improve. Wins after JUly, when you're out of it don't count. Every year they do the same when is someone going to state the obvious. They don't know how to win as a team.
_S.K. - Monday, September 29 2003 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#89282) #
Good job, Dave, but I think you're being unfair to Mark Hendrickson - it was his first full season in the majors, after all. I think Lurch would make a fine 5th-starter or swingman for the Glaring Jays in '04.
_S.K. - Monday, September 29 2003 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#89283) #
don: Who exactly doesn't know how to win as a team? The only person who's been with the club since '96 is Delgado, so I suppose you're criticizing him. Yeah, that dude is awful.

Maybe you giving up your tickets caused this slide into mediocrity - come on, we want a winning team, pony up the dough!
Leigh - Monday, September 29 2003 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#89284) #
don,

While you bright-eyed optimism is comforting, I must take issue with every single word that you just wrote.

Hinske is overrated? Hinske is grossly underrated. Even a superficial glance at his 2003 stats reveals that he has some serious extra-base power [http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00000930.shtml].

Manager: D- at best? Tosca has been McGyver-like in his industriousness with regard to bullpen management. That is: holding a lead using Dan Reichart is like stopping a terrorist attack using only a drinking straw.

They don't know how to win as a team? This reminds me of that sketch on Saturday Night Live where they parody Hardball with Chris Matthews, and whenever Al Sharpton [aptly portrayed by Tracy Morgan] is asked a question, he answers only in gibberish. Seriously, it makes no sense.
_benum - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 03:12 AM EDT (#89285) #
Hinske: is well over rated and after the third year when R. is trying to unload him don't say I didn't tell you.
Manager: D- at best: Why is he still learning on the job. If I was a reliever on the jays I would ask for a trade. He gives only Lopez confidence. and has no idea od baseball strategy for the team. Let's get an experienced Bench coach to-day.
I gave up my tickets after 1995 and since then the jays strive for 3rd. Well they did not improve. Wins after JUly, when you're out of it don't count. Every year they do the same when is someone going to state the obvious. They don't know how to win as a team.


Why are you here???
_Andrew Edwards - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 07:09 AM EDT (#89286) #
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
_dp - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#89287) #
I think the Jays need...

Rey Sanchez. He might be expensive (TF not worth it) after posting a high batting average in Seattle, but he covers lots of ground. With the everyday lineup just about set for next year, SS is one area where the Jays could improve themselves.

I think something has to be done about Tosca's bullpen and bench use- I was baffled by some of the hitters left on the bench in close games. I assume Carlos is a greater motivator or something, because as a tactician (other than not sacing or stealing often, which I don't think are his preferences), he sucks.
Craig B - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#89288) #
Sanchez would stop some of the bleeding, but he's going to be 36 now, and while he was once as good a defender as Bordick, his bat is just terrible. He it .250/.285/.285 this year, and that's not really worth it even if he's as good a defender as he was a few years ago... and he's not.

If the Jays are looking for a SS, they'd be better off trying to pry loose Orlando Cabrera from Montreal. Julio Lugo would be another promising guy, but I don't know whether he's going to be available.

Cabrera will be due a raise from $3.3 million but might not get tendered because of the Expos' finances. He's a legitimate star... very good bat for a shotstop and terrific defender. But then you're committing to a guy who will be expendable soon. Lugo will take less dough.
_Cristian - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 11:23 AM EDT (#89289) #
The Angels look to be in on the Tejada sweepstakes. If so, David Eckstein would be available as well.
Craig B - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#89290) #
Eckstein would be an OK fit, though I wonder if his range is going to maintain itself as he moves into his late 20s. He's a good defensive shortstop (average for a starter I suppose), appearances notwithstanding, and might be better on carpet than grass because the turf will help his somewhat limited arm.

But his career numbers are 279/350/360 and that sums up David Eckstein perfectly. Even though he's a better defender than Woodward, I don't think his bat is any better.

Eckstein will probably get what, $2 million at arbitration? More? Cristian Guzman got $2.5 million and that's probably a good comparable (Guzman 2000-2002 to Eckstein 2001-2003), as is Furcal (2000-2002) at $2.2 million.

I'd rather have Woodward at what would presumably be half that price.
_Matt - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 01:09 PM EDT (#89291) #
Don is Richard Griffin. I meant Geoff Baker, sorry, Steve Simmons. Wait, I mean...
_Cristian - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#89292) #
I completely agree with you Craig on your Eckstein analysis. I suppose it really depends on how low the Jays are on Woodward. That and my judgment is clouded by the two Eckstein grand slams against the Jays last year.
Mike Green - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#89293) #
An A for Hinske's .276/.356/.471? Hardly. This year he cost the team 3 baserunners per month (vs. a replacement level third baseman) by virtue of his inability to turn the double play, his league-worst range and his league-worst error rate. If you take into account his defensive contributions, even his September performance was not the equal of Hudson's. Charitably, a B- would be a possible grade.

If he remains a Blue Jay next season (as seems likely), we will watch his defensive performance in April carefully to see if he has finally recovered from his injury.
Craig B - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#89294) #
Charitably, a B- would be a possible grade.

For Hinske in September? Wow... tough crowd. He did improve his defensive play in September, at any rate.
Mike Green - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#89295) #
Craig, I'm not tough. If I were tough, Hinske would get a C for his September work. His offense was above the level of a replacement third baseman, but not miles above. His defence was significantly below the level of a replacement player.

His offensive performance alone does not merit an A. Maybe a B plus.
_R Billie - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#89296) #
Does turf help a guy's throwing arm? If anything it hurts both throwing and range because your feet don't have as good traction on carpet as you do on grass. The ball gets through quicker too. Hinske for instance is a much better thrower on grass than he is on turf.

There's no way Cabrera is non-tendered given the year he had. Very solid defensively and had a career year with the bat at 28 years old (.298/.348/.462, 52 bb, 64 k in 624 ab) and stole 24 of 26 bases. He's the very definition of hot commodity. If they have to lose his salary they'll trade him and get something very good. He might be a good bet to regress closer to his .733 career OPS but that K/BB ratio is hard to ignore.
Mike Green - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#89297) #
R. Billie, Turf seems to be a double-edged sword for infielders. The ball gets to the fielder quicker, but the hops are truer. Anyways, among third basemen, Hinske's competition for worst defensive third baseman (Wigginton, Helms, Aramis Ramirez) played all or part of the season on grass at home. Every third basemen who played on turf at home was miles better than Eric.
_R Billie - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#89298) #
I think that suggests as I've always suspected that Hinske just does not have the arm and/or throwing ability to play third base on turf. I think he gets to the ball fine but is achingly slow on the release and his throws are neither particularly hard nor accurate. He always seems to be maximum effort when throwing the ball where you expect a decent major league third baseman to throw like it's second nature. If Eric can hit enough to play first down the road he can still have reasonable value as I suspect he'd be pretty good defensively for that position.

I still think the Jays should experiment with baseballs that emit an electric shock if the fielder takes excessively long getting rid of it. That might convince Eric to field and throw in one motion more often.
_Matt - Tuesday, September 30 2003 @ 05:48 PM EDT (#89299) #
This is off topic but I was just reading the season ending stats and discovered that Roy Halladay gave up more hits than any other pitcher in baseball. Wonder if anyone has ever won a Cy Young doing that?
Named For Hank - Wednesday, October 01 2003 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#89300) #
Congrats to AL Rookie of the Month Reed Johnson!

(And player of the week Carlos Delgado and pitcher of the month Roy Halladay.)
_Jacko - Wednesday, October 01 2003 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#89301) #

I think that suggests as I've always suspected that Hinske just does not have the arm and/or throwing ability to play third base on turf. I think he gets to the ball fine but is achingly slow on the release and his throws are neither particularly hard nor accurate. He always seems to be maximum effort when throwing the ball where you expect a decent major league third baseman to throw like it's second nature. If Eric can hit enough to play first down the road he can still have reasonable value as I suspect he'd be pretty good defensively for that position.


After watching the end of the SF/Fla game, and Alfonzo play 3B, I started thinking the exact same thing about Hinske. Fonzie may not hit a lot, but his throwing motion is effortless and smooth. Hinkse's throws never seem to have any zip on them, and it seems like he's really trying to muscle them over to first.

Having said all that, I still think Hinske will be at 3B for at least the next few years. The only way they are going to move him from 3B is if they come up with an in-house solution. And currently, there aren't any:

Simon Pond -- also a defensive liability
Orlando Hudson -- doesn't hit enough to play 3B (yet)
Aaron Hill -- 2 years away, and may not hit enough to play 3B

You can scour the lower levels of the system, and there's not much down there either.

One wonders why the Jays didn't use a their first round pick on Conor Jackson, who went at #19 to Arizona. I like his bat a whole lot more than Hill's. Though it looks like the Diamondbacks are moving him to the OF, so maybe he couldn't handle 3B either.
_R Billie - Wednesday, October 01 2003 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#89302) #
One wonders why the Jays didn't use a their first round pick on Conor Jackson, who went at #19 to Arizona. I like his bat a whole lot more than Hill's. Though it looks like the Diamondbacks are moving him to the OF, so maybe he couldn't handle 3B either.

Well that's just it. You're more likely to get a player who can handle a key position by selecting a middle infielder (especially shortstop) because often players who can handle a position in college end up not being able to at a pro level. And I don't think there's much wrong with Hill's bat. I think he'll hit just fine. I expect a righthanded Catalanatto type hitter with a bit more pop (approaching 20 homers). Which is fine for short, second, or even third.
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 01 2003 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#89303) #
R. Billie, I agree. I also feel that Hinske is simply not blessed with the cat quick reflexes that good fielding third basemen have (it aint called the hot corner for nothing), and this compounds the problem. Yes, Hinske could improve and hit .275/.370/.500 consistently and be an adequate first baseman, but it is by no means certain that he will do so.

I also agree that Aaron Hill will hit enough to be the Jay third baseman by perhaps late 2005 if everything goes well, and I thought that he was clearly the right choice by JP.
_jason - Wednesday, October 01 2003 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#89304) #
OK, lets try a little Bill James analysis. (Understood; gaul, chutzpa, etc. etc.) Lets take a look at the numbers Hinske put up and imagine that they are Player X. Not Eric Hinske, R.O.T.Y., nor Hinske signed by J.P. for the next five years, but just player X, who we have no attachment to. Someone we have not seen, and therefore can only understand through his stats. What do the stats tell us about this X guy. (I won't put them here, I know not how.)

Well he has good speed, as evidenced by the doubles and stolen bases. He has some pop in his bat, but maybe not enough to justify 1b or a corner outfield spot. A fair though not overly discriminating eye. The low totals of double plays might indicate a week arm, and the low range factor would seem to suggest that our X is missing the necessary quickness needed for 3b. Ah those ugly error totals, what do we make of those. Maybe our X is a player out of position, a converted outfielder say. It is possible that this has affected both his fielding and his batting. Poor X; these experiments never work.

Look, I wish Eric Hinske all the best, and would be the first to admit I was wrong about him. But one of the things I look for in any young player is that he make improvements in his game. Not all around improvement, not better numbers in every category, but some improvement, some growth. Eric Hinske has regressed.

Some in these pages (?) have said that we should throw out this year as a basis of assessment, but you can't: 2003 is part of Hinske's record and shall be for evermore. I hope he comes back next year, it is not beyond the realm of possibility. But I fear that Hinske has become J.P.'s first self inflicted albatross.
Pepper Moffatt - Wednesday, October 01 2003 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#89305) #
http://economics.about.com
Eric Hinske has regressed.

The guy had to completely overhaul his swing after he was diagnosed with a broken hand. Can we cut him just a little slack?

One day Cliff Politte is god's gift to relief pitching, now some people can't wait to dump him. Now Hinske is an albatross. Who are we going to jump on in 2004? Delgado? Wells? Halladay?

If Hinske has such a little chance of bouncing back, then there's no way in hell Roy Halladay is going to come back from his awful 2000. Frank Thomas only hit *4* homeruns in 2001 and just *28* the next year. That's lousy production from a DH. What a garbage player!

Mike
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 01 2003 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#89306) #
Mike M, I like Cliff Politte, and I think that he will bounce back. It's just that when Politte tried to play through his injury this year and was terrible, he was ripped by Mike Wilner among others. JP is quoted in the paper as saying that Politte's on the bubble for next year. I didn't hear Mike Wilner ripping Hinske for trying to play through his injury, or JP saying that Hinske was on the bubble (I realize that he's signed long-term).

As long as people think about Hinske in the same way as Politte, I have no difficulty. Both had good but not great 2002 seasons, and had poor 2003 seasons due at least in part to injury that both foolishly tried to play through.
Pepper Moffatt - Wednesday, October 01 2003 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#89307) #
http://economics.about.com
As long as people think about Hinske in the same way as Politte, I have no difficulty. Both had good but not great 2002 seasons, and had poor 2003 seasons due at least in part to injury that both foolishly tried to play through.

Agreed. In the case of Politte he came in and had a terrific first couple of months and I think we all (myself included) got way too high on him. Hinske probably played a little over his head at times in 2002, but I still think he's quite a good player.

I just hate seeing people get built up as being the next great superstar after they've had a couple of good months, and a guy being torn down when he's had a couple of bad months, particularly in the case of Hinske where there was obviously something wrong with him.

Keep in mind that JP also replaced the training staff midseason, which may have been because there were too many "hidden" injuries.

Cheers,

Mike
_jason - Wednesday, October 01 2003 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#89308) #
Peace Mike M. You are absolutely right, we baseball fans are a reactionary lot. For my part, I was only trying share my observations of a player - maybe I was overcome with chutzpa. I don't want him run out of town on a rail, and I am sorry if it came across this way. You are also right to observe that most players have large swings in production. Consider me chastized.

Cheers,
jason
Pepper Moffatt - Thursday, October 02 2003 @ 08:10 AM EDT (#89309) #
http://economics.about.com
Peace Mike M. You are absolutely right, we baseball fans are a reactionary lot. For my part, I was only trying share my observations of a player - maybe I was overcome with chutzpa. I don't want him run out of town on a rail, and I am sorry if it came across this way. You are also right to observe that most players have large swings in production. Consider me chastized.

Hey, it's cool. My posting was too harsh. I blame it on the Sudafed.

Cheers,

Mike
Named For Hank - Thursday, October 02 2003 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#89310) #
What's this being nice business? This is the internet, and on the internet you are supposed to have flame wars.
Pepper Moffatt - Thursday, October 02 2003 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#89311) #
http://economics.about.com
What's this being nice business? This is the internet, and on the internet you are supposed to have flame wars.

That's the kind of comment I'd expect from an uneducated low-brow Satan worshipper like you.

Mike
_Brent - Thursday, October 02 2003 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#89312) #
Oooh, yeah yeah. Catfight!
Named For Hank - Thursday, October 02 2003 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#89313) #
Sadly, I have a tract called "Confessions of a teenage Satanist" taped to my wall near my computers here, that ages ago someone stuffed into my locker at high school.

I don't recall doing anything particularly Satanist-y, but who knows...
_benum - Thursday, October 02 2003 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#89314) #
Satanist-y?

Wasn't that a triple album by the Clash back in '80?

You can't have an non-baseball flame war on a baseball site without something like:

Moffatt, you are a crypto-facist!!!
Named For Hank - Thursday, October 02 2003 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#89315) #
First person to mention The Clash loses...oh, sorry, benum!
Pepper Moffatt - Thursday, October 02 2003 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#89316) #
http://economics.about.com
Sadly, I have a tract called "Confessions of a teenage Satanist" taped to my wall near my computers here, that ages ago someone stuffed into my locker at high school.

It sounds like a Jack Chick tract, but it's not one I've seen. His website is particularly amusing.

For your reading pleasure, "The Poor Little Witch".

Cheers,

Mike
Craig B - Friday, October 03 2003 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#89317) #
Picking a thread at random...

I got a very nice e-mail from Peter Clark (Curator of Collections at the Hall of Fame) today in response to a query I sent regarding Delgado's four-homer game.

Apparently Delgado has donated his bat from that game to the Hall of Fame, a splendid gesture and a great addition to the Hall's collection.
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