Overall, the 2003 season went as planned. The starting pitching wasn't quite as good as would have been expected, but the offense was a little bit better than expected, so they effectively netted each other out.

Of the players that are possibly a part of the future:

Delgado is Delgado
Hudson took a step forward
Hinske struggled, but I'm not concerned at all (as a previous thread detailed nicely)
Woodward took a step back
Wells took a big step forward
Johnson was a bit of a surprise
Phelps didn't follow up last season like I expected, but I still expect him to mash
Cash didn't show much with the bat, but has been slow to adjust at each level IIRC
Lopez, Kershner and Miller were good finds
Politte proved he shouldn't be closing
Hendrickson proved to be a good emergency starter
Towers showed some promise (exceptionally low BBs)
Escobar proved to be an adequate to above average starter
Halladay proved to be Cy Young

Offensively, the team should be fine for years. The key, obviously, is filling a handful of pitching spots. There's a need for a #2 and #3 starter, and a couple above average relievers, and I don't think that's going to be filled internally next year.

I wish I could be optimistic about the offence beyond 2004, but that is highly dependent on the status of a certain first baseman ...

It seems that J.P's plan is on course...his philosophy of procuring and developing real "baseball players" instead of "athletes" has resulted in heads-up baseball and a more positive environment in the organization.

It is a shame that Mel Queen had to be let go, but I guess he was just too labled as "Old Blue Jays Philosophy"...Gord Ash thought he knew much more than he actually did and I believe that Dave Stewart did more harm than good. It was a "me first" philosophy with the Jays in the past, and Stewart was a huge part of it. He wanted the G.M. job more than he wanted the Jays to succeed. Queen was just stuck in the middle of this mess.

I really like the emphasis of OBP and such. As an Assistant Baseball Coach at the high school level, I am looking forward to encouraging that philosophy in 2004.

Offensively, the team should be fine for years. The key, obviously, is filling a handful of pitching spots. There's a need for a #2 and #3 starter, and a couple above average relievers, and I don't think that's going to be filled internally next year.

Somewhere in the Globe today its noted that J.P expects to have around $13 million to play with over the winter - thats after paying HLH.

So the money is there to do something about those needs.

J.P expects to have around $13 million to play with over the winter - thats after paying HLH.

*Cough* *cough* *cough* *splutter* *incomprehending goggle-eyed stare*

Is this right?

HLH is due, I would say, at least $6 million. That would mean that out of a firm $48 million budget, only $28-29 million is spent so far.

That may be right... and believe it or not, $18.5 million of that goes to Delgado.

The next-highest 2004 contracts the Jays appear to have are Hinske at $800,000 and Berg and Wells at $700,000 each.

Politte and Woodward are due for arbitration. Trever Miller should be as well, but I think he's a free agent. Is that right? He needs to be re-signed.

Myers and Catalanotto need to be re-signed, of course, or their positions need to be filled. Cat could probably come back for about what he was signed for ($2.2 million) and Myers will need a raise.

Other than that, the guys are all pretty cheap signings. Cash, Hudson, Johnson, Hendrickson, Kershner, Lopez, Phelps, Towers (who may be a FA), Walker, and Wilson are all automatically renewable and should make 300-500 thousand apiece. Walker I'm actually not totally certain about.

Kielty, I think, is in line for a raise, but should be still automatically renewable.

If you add up Delgado's $18.5 million, $1 million each for Politte and Woodward, $2.2 million for Hinske, Berg, and Wells, and a $350,000 average times 11 for the 11 guys I think are auto-renewable, that makes $26.5 million for those 17 guys.

From there, you can even figure in $3.5 million re-signing cash for Myers and Cat, get up to $30 million, add $6 million for Halladay and you still have $12 million. I think any long-term deals that J.P. signs players to will be back-loaded like the Wells and Hinske deals were (and I think Hudson may be a good candidate for a similar deal at less money), so not too much extra money should go out the window. If they need to put an $8 or $9 million figure on the frist year of a long-term deal for Halladay, them's the breaks.

I forgot to conclude... J.P. has been masterful with his budget. There's tons of room despite Delgado's salary eating up 40% of the available dollars at one go.

I wonder if J.P. will trade O-Dog for a starting pitcher. Hudson's inability to hit lefthanded pitching is a huge problem. If you platoon him you lose out on the defence, and a lineup with Hudson and Cash against a lefhander won't generate many runs.

Even after he addresses the issue of signing AL Cy Young Award candidate Roy Halladay, Blue Jays general manager J..P. Ricciardi figures he will have $13-million (U.S.) in discretionary spending. It will go for pitching.

Just had to look up the URL to make sure I hadnt been sleep-reading in the cab to the aiport :-)

The Star today had a breakdown of all contracts for next year. I don't have it at work but if someone else does they could verify Craig's numbers.

Here's what Richard Griffin has to say, shifting his cross-hairs from the GM to his bosses.

Ownership is not a baseball fan. Rogers does not want to take a chance on winning, because winning isn't everything. That fact becomes clear when, despite 86 wins and a strong finish, Ricciardi refuses to come off his prediction of 2005, or later, for the post-season.

Rogers' baseball strategy does not involve gambling on Ricciardi's ability to find the right players to bring the Jays to the post-season immediately. Why not?

There's a similar theme from Geoff Baker:

Ricciardi has picked the players, but it's the corporate decisions by Jays president and CEO Paul Godfrey and team owner Rogers Communications that will set the agenda for coming years.

It would have been impossible, even for the Star writers, to spin this season as a complete failure, so instead, they're performing what I'm sure they believe is a public service -- warning us not to get our hopes up.

Giving fans with heightened expectations something in the interim, other than a scrappy team winning 80-90 games while finishing 10 out of the playoffs, remains a challenge for an organization spending less and less.

Griffin: Finishing up his second year on the job as GM, Ricciardi, flushed with the success of the Jays finishing third for the sixth straight season, is now forced to wait for hand-picked prospects to develop into major-leaguers.

What a whiny, catty b****. The Torstar vs. Rogers war continues... how infantile.

I don't think increasing payroll for 2004 is a wise idea. I DO think Rogers should increase their budget for 2005 and beyond if that's what it takes to keep Delgado and bring in another ace starter.

If they let Delgado walk and don't bring in any prime talent in 2005, I'm going to come down very hard on Rogers.

That said, I expect an 88-92 win season next year and if they don't reach that I will consider it a disappointing season.

What a whiny, catty b****. The Torstar vs. Rogers war continues... how infantile.

Couldn't agree more.

With some great performances over the last few weeks and the personal milestones by HLH, Delgado and Wells its been a fun end to the season for Jays fans. Not that you'd have any idea about that if you relied on the Star for your Jays coverage.

Halladay made almost $4 million last year. He is likely to win the Cy Young this year and he has another year under belt. He has unquestionably been the best pitcher in baseball over the last two years.

Unless service time is the only important factor in arbitrations (it isn't), his salary next year has got to be close to $10 million.

JP's line about having $13 million US in discretionary spending makes no sense unless Rogers is willing to open the purse strings. We heard $11 million from JP last time, and this figure makes sense.

As for trading O-Dog, what is the alternative at second base? Jorge Sequea would be a significant drop-off, both offensively and defensively. Russ Adams is at least a year away offensively, and has never played the position. Instead of trading him, O-Dog should be instructed to give up switch-hitting.

Incidentally, by 2005, the lineup will likely include Quiroz, Rios, Wells and Phelps, so vulnerability to left-handed pitching should not be an issue with the Jays, but infield defence is likely to remain one.

You'd think Rogers would realize an extra 10-12 million in the hands of a smart GM could be the differance between a legit playoff race leading to better attendance and tv ratings. That and putting in real grass which I'm convinced would also give attendance a boost because of the improved atmosphere.

I was wondering if anyone would bring up the Griffin column. My reactions:

- Griffin's main point is that Rogers isn't giving Ricciardi the budget he needs, and that we as fans are suckers for buying Rogers' argument about how Toronto is a small market.

Well, I, for one, am not a sucker. My perspective is this: I have no idea whatsoever what kind of money Rogers is making out of the whole Jays/Sportsnet/FAN setup. If I pored through all the papers I might be able to find out how well they said they were doing, but that's not the same thing. Therefore I couldn't say what the Jays' budget 'should' be. Would I like it to be more? Of course; I'm sure Ricciardi could do great things with an extra ten mil or whatever.

But then I have no competing priorities. Rogers does. Granted that Rogers (the company) is evil (and if Griffin wants to start taking shots at them then as far as I'm concerned he's just showing good taste); I'm still fair enough in my best moments to admit that they have the right to make a profit. I don't care if they do or not, but they have the right to. So I have nothing to say about the budget, except that I do think it should increase over the next few years as attendance and ratings increase.

- Griffin invokes the oft-heard argument about how many of the good players on the roster were drafted by Gillick and Ash. I have a problem with this argument, and it's not directed against Griffin, because this line of thinking is not original to him (it isn't, is it?). The problem is this: yes, Phelps and Wells and Hudson and Johnson and Cash and Halladay and Escobar and Delgado were already here when Ricciardi got here . . . but how many of them would have jobs if Ash was still in charge? We'll never know, of course, but I think there's a decent chance that, if Ash was still here, the lineup would still feature Stewart, Cruz, Mondesi, Felipe Lopez and Alex Gonzalez. Vernon Wells and Josh Phelps might not have major-league jobs (but I think Hudson would; nobody would have stuck with Homer Bush much longer. Although it might be Izturis in there instead. I suppose Hudson could be in there at third instead of Lopez). Ricciardi didn't draft these guys, but he did deploy them, and those who make this argument tend to ignore this fact.

Unless service time is the only important factor in arbitrations (it isn't), his salary next year has got to be close to $10 million.

It is. Service time is *by far* the most important factor in arbitrations. Halladay's comparables with his service time will not be high-salaried players.

The extra $2 million is apparently due to the budget now being at $50 million instead of $48. I suspect that this would be due to the 10% bump in attendance this year.

There are two critical decisions to be taken by JP with his budget rigth away.
Number one is to lock HLH for say 4 years ( then we all will breath easier ).
Then he will decide to let walk or not Kelvim. I do hope to have him the next 3 or 4 years, since he has been healthy and will solve another one fifth of the vital equation related to starting pitchers.
After that and if there is money lets talk about the new contract to Carlos...
The above will dictate if we are in in 05 or have to wait till 08 or whatever.

Here's the thing about Griffin's column: say Rogers gave JP a $100 million payroll starting next year. Say JP signs a whole lot of talent and makes a serious run in 2004. One of two things would happen.

1. The Jays miss the playoffs, or make the playoffs but get bounced out along the way. Griffin proclaims them the $100 Million Failures, draws comparisons to the Mets and call for Ricciardi's head.

2. The Jays win the World Series. Griffin calls them "The Best Team Money Could Rent" and predicts this bunch of mercenaries (which includes not a single Canadian) will be dismantled over the winter.

We all know that's the game being played here, and that the outcomes are already preordained -- no matter what, the organization loses.

Jordan: Yeah, but that's no reason for Rogers not to do it. I don't really know if the amount they're giving Ricciardi to work with is reasonable or not - although I'm pretty sure that $100 mil is above and beyond - but I certainly hope that Griffin's opinion doesn't enter into their decision-making process.

The whole "third place for six straight years" business is really beginning to grate. Yes, it's true. But to phrase it like that makes no attempt to differentiate between the 80-82 team of 2001 that was stocked with overpaid mediocrities and this year's team, which even the most cynical observers must admit has a promising future. But it's the Star, so whatever.

The big question, of course, is whether Rogers will ever increase the payroll. Attendance was up this year, TV ratings are supposedly up... yet the payroll stays the same. It reminds me of a Dilbert strip where the Boss puts Dilbert in charge of "Project B.I.F.F.", which stands for Big Improvements For Free. Dilbert points out that you have to spend money to make money; the Boss responds:
"If we HAD money, we wouldn't have to make money. Duh."

I wonder if Paul Godfrey actually wears a toupee...

http://economics.about.com
but I certainly hope that Griffin's opinion doesn't enter into their decision-making process.

If it causes less people to come to the games or watch the games on TV it matters. If the Jays pay out $100M in payrolls and only bring in $70M in revenue, they're a failure even if they win the World Series. They're a business, not a charity.

Mike

Here's some of the questions the Jays need to ask in the off-season.

1.Do you keep Delgado long term or approach him about waiving his no-trade clause for a possible deadline deal? ( I'd try to find a way using deferred contracts/or pressure on Rogers to keep the teams marquis player. Attracting star talent to Toronto is hard enough and this guy loves the city..so find a way.)

2.Can Woodward be your everyday short-stop? If not who replaces him.?(Personally I think if they just left him alone he'd be fine...reading between the lines the team seems unhappy about his off-field preparation.)

3.Can you talk Bordick out of retirement? (Watching Bordick yesterday he's gone,long hugs,last player off the field. I guess he has 5 kids at home and wants to be around more.He can still play and would really help address the Woodward question.)

4.Given a high propensity of groundball type hurlers can you survive(at times) with an infield of Delgado,Berg,Woodward and Hinske?

5.Do you sign Cattlatano or use the money towards pitching?(I role the dice on Gross/or find a left hand hitting utility type until he's ready and free up 2 million for the pitchers.)

6.How much time (with Quiroz the better prospect)do you spend to see if Cash can hit?

7.See above.Do you re-sign Myers as a bridge to the future?(I think this is a priority,on the broadcast yesterday,Riccardi felt he had talked him into coming back.)

Craigs numbers are right on regarding the budget.I have the Jays hitters(not resigning Bordick or Cat,but keeping Myers at 25.5-26 million.)Now we need to ask how we address the pitching with the remaining 24 million.

8. Do you take Halliday to arbitration or sign him to a long-term contract?(If he went to arbitration I think he'd be at 7-7.5 million.I think being a 5th year arbitration player he'd get similar numbers to Freddy Garcia who last year who went from 3.8 -6.8 million with similar stats .If he went to his 6th. arbitration year he would then hit the 10 million Millwood type numbers)

Lopez,Politte,Miller,Kershner,Walker,Towers,Lurch all come back costing about 3.5 million.You now(if Halliday ups at 7.5 million)have 13 million to address the 3-4 slots left on the mound.

9.Would you resign Escobar as your #2 starter? (I sign the guy. Given the dearth of quality starters on the market ,I role the dice knowing he wants to stay and I have a good handle on his injury potential.

10.Whose your number 3 starter?Do you trade prospects to fill this role?

11.Do you spend on a quality closer/or try spreading the money on a bull-pen by commitee approach?
11.Do I spend on a quality closer/or look for more off a bull-pen

Sorry about the last question,my browser wouldn't let me edit.

We all know that's the game being played here, and that the outcomes are already preordained -- no matter what, the organization loses.

Oddly enough, this is what brought me to Batter's Box: after a few months of my whining in a baseball thread on Home Theater Forum about the Toronto media's coverage of the Jays, someone pointed me here (I think in an effort to get me to shut up about it). At the time I was endlessly frustrated with Scott Carson on Sportsnet's website -- he would write "the Jays are going to lose because everything is wrong with them" and then, in the midst of their fantastic winning streak, he wrote that we shouldn't get too excited about sweeping the Yankees and the Red Sox because we'll just lose later.

I was really considering making a giant CARSON: IF YOU HATE THE JAYS, QUIT sign to bring to the game. I was really, really close to doing it.

Anyways, I broke the habit of reading his garbage when I found Batter's Box, so I have no idea what he's said lately, and I don't care. I have tremendous hope and enthusiasm for the coming seasons, despite his best efforts. You lose, Scott. You lose, Griffin. You lose, Baker. I still love the Jays.

One of the nice things having to deal with Delgado is that he is a really nice person. He is like a boy, I can picture his Dad spanking him for not earning his dues! I would not be surprised ( and he is very bright too ) if he negotiates a very affordable deal ( say 12 M per ) and remains as a Jay for life.

I always thought the plan was to take the budget from $73 million (2002) to $53 million (2003) to $50 million (2004) to $48 million (2005).

Each reduction taking into account the exiting or reworking of large contracts (Mondesi, Loaiza, Cruz, Stewart, etc). The 2005 mark in particular taking into account whatever becomes of Delgado's $18 million.

I think if the team does get into a proper position in terms of productive major league depth in 2005 the plan was then to start increasing the budget incrementally in the following years.

As far as Griffin's comments about Halladay, Wells, and Delgado not being Ricciardi products...well duh...they were drafted/signed 6 to 8 years ago. It's going to be another 3 or 4 years before we can realistically say whether any meaningful players under JP are produced.

What they could do (starting 2005 - I'm cool with the budget for 2004) is view it as 10 million extra in salary = more wins = possible playoff appearance = 15-20 million more in revenue.

Obviously those sums are a guess - but I find it hard to believe that 95 wins and a shot at making the playoffs (in 2005) isn't worth significant coin (attendance, ratings, post-season revenue).

Baseball North is on board the development train, but if we reach 2005 and 2006 and they haven't sniffed the playoffs there's going to be a huge downturn in revenue.

Wildrose, excellent questions all. Here's my take on each.

1) Keep Delgado long-term. I think he'll be well worth whatever they pay him over the next 6 or 7 years, given his production and PR value.

2) I don't think Woodward can cut it. Honestly, he was slow for a shortstop to begin with and he's at that age where shortstops start to lose a step. The difference between a really good defensive shortstop (like Bordick) and Woody should be apparent to anyone who watched the Jays this year - it's colossal. Berg-type utility infielder (Props to Craig) should be his role.

3) Mikey's not coming back.

4) Not for more that 15-20 games.

5) Cat's most likely coming back, and I think it's generally a good idea to have the 3 outfielders rotating through 2 spots. Rios will likely be ready by 2005.

6) Cash will get 400 PAs next year. My guess is he hits .220/.280/.350 (avg, obp, slg). Quiroz in 2005 hopefully.

7) I'd sign Myers provided it was for reasonable cost. He should get about 200 PA giving Cash the odd day off against a tough righty and a non-running team.

8) Gotta go long-term with Doc. J.P. mentioned a 4-year deal which would buy out 2 years of free-agency. Cost-certainty is the key here.

9) Re-sign Escobar if you can get him for about 3-year, 5 million per (with a few incentives thrown in). To build a winner you have to take some calculated risks. In this case, I'd bet that Kelvim takes a step-forward and gives you 200 IP of well above average starting pitching. That would be our #2 pitcher and it would be a huge piece of the contention puzzle. I have my doubts about whether the K man will accept such an offer.

10) #3 starter: most likely we'll pick up a 1-year rental or make a Lidle for minor prospects type deal. I wouldn't trade McGowan, Bush, Hill, Rios or Quiroz, but I'd trade any other prospect to get one or two league average starters.

11) I'd try to pick up a couple of decent, relatively inexpensive veteran relief pitchers. I don't mind going into the season with Lopez as the closer. If we're unexpectedly in contention, it might be an idea to trade for an establish closer for a half-season of work.

I just want to comment this:
5) Having Cat back means Werth is not up again. But could mean we are dealing Kielty to Oakland for a another four starter ( they always have fourth starters coming out of their ears ).
9)kelvim may be asking four years ( i thing he declared that to press ) would not mind that extra option year.
11) How serious will JP be about bringing in a quantrill type of reliever? dependable,durable,but an investment ( 2-3 M).

Robert has done a good job on these. My take...

3 - We'll see in March whether Bordick is really retired. My guess is yes.

4 - You will lose ballgames with a Woodward/Berg DP combo, especially with Hinske at third. Bad idea... the Jays should be trying to upgrade defensively at short, not downgrade.

Is Julio Lugo available? I hate the fact that he hit a bunch of homers right at the end of the year. He might have been a bargain, and is a very good player who the Devil Rays might not want long-term.

5 - I would sign Cat. I like the idea of having a Johnson/Catalanotto platoon in left field, with Kielty in right and Wells in center. However, if Cat wants closer to $3 million than $2 million, I think you dump him... there are limits.

6 - I would not spend a long time waiting for Cash. If Myers can come back, I would like to see a Cash/Myers platoon. If Cash can hit .230, he should be fine, and I think he will hit .230.

7 - Myers should get more time than Robert supposes, something like a job-share rather than a strict platoon would be my preference. It's more likely to be what he supposes. I wouldn't sign Myers for more than $1.2 million or so, though, if you're only giving him 300 PA... which is all that's wise.

11 - Try to get something that's not a reclamation project... someone who has actually had some success. There will be reclamations too... but I'd like to see $2-3 million total out of 12 million go into the pen to complement Lopez, Politte, Kershner, and Miller.

Closers are the one area where someone good is *always* available. I'd wait until the team established themselves, then go begging for money if need be.

Incidentally... Jabonoso, having Cat back does not necessarily mean Werth sits.

Even with 12 pitchers (AAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHH), your position players might be

Crash and Cash
Delgado
O-Dog
Woodward and Berg
Hinske
Cat and Sparky
V-Dub
Kielty
Phelps

leaving you one spot free for Werth.

Bordick's retirement and the imminent departure (sad but necessary) of one of Wilson or Myers mean that Werth is available.

Ideally, of course, a set pen of Lopez, Politte, Miller, Kershner, and two newcomers means that only 11 pitchers would be needed... freeing up roster spots for Werth plus a utility infielder, new starting shortstop or Howie Clark.

Craig B, you must be kidding about Halladay. Freddy Garcia went into arbitration last year with ERAs of 3.05 in 2001 in Safeco (not as good as Roy's 2002, but close), and 4.39 in 2002 (way, way behind Roy's 2003). If Freddy gets 6.875 million, Halladay's go to be in the 8 plus range at least. If Rogers has loosened the purse strings by $2 million, that would explain

My take on next year:

1. Bullpen is basically set- Lopez, Kershner, Politte, Trever Miller, and a young starter (one of Chulk or Thurman; pay no more than $500,000 for one veteran reliever signed to a minor league deal
2. spend most of the available cash on one starter- Schilling, Ponson (if the long-term commitment can be kept reasonable), and go with a rotation of Halladay, Schilling (say), Towers, Hendrickson and one of Thurman and Chulk. Anticipate that at least one of Arnold, McGowan or Bush will be ready by mid-season.
3. Greg Myers is unlikely to hit at the same level next year as this one, and won't be worth the 1.2-1.5 million salary that he can obtain most likely on the open market; get a cheap backup catcher
4. Use remaining cash to pick up a right-handed platoon partner (Bordick would be fine if he doesn't wish to retire) for Hinske/Clark at third base. Ideally trade Hinske for a starting pitcher.
5. Woodward is fine. Just leave him there.

The key to the team's success, whatever moves are made, will be the development of the team's young pitchers- Towers, Hendrickson, Thurman, Chulk, Thurman, Arnold, McGowan and Bush. If two are league average or better, the team should be competitive. If not, the team could very well finish under .500. The only two who have a chance to really thrive in this environment (hitters' park/below average defence) are McGowan and Bush. but it may be 2005 or 2006 before either is ready to shine.

Did anyone notice in Halladay's game on Saturday Tosca had to put in a defensive replacement for Berg at 3rd base in the ninth inning, and chose Howie Clark over Hinske? A wise choice, I thought.

If I'm J.P., here's my game plan for the 2004 roster, heading into the off-season. Subject to change based on what's going on in the market, obviously.

Rotation			
SP1	Doc	6.000	4 years, 39 million, salaries of 6, 10, 11, 12. 
SP2	(Trade)	5.000	Or Kelvim if he accepts 3 years $12M + $4M in IP bonuses
SP3	Hentgen	2.000	$3.0M option for 2nd year guaranteed at 180 IP
SP4	Towers	0.500	
SP5	Walker	0.600	Or Thurman / Lurch / FA
Bullpen			
Closer	(Trade)	2.500	Salary dump trade, let him walk after 2004
SetupR	Lopez	0.400	
SetupL	Miller	0.400	
Short	Cliff	1.000	
Loogy	Kersh.	0.350	
Long	Thurman	0.500	Or Lurch / Rule 5. Arnold in July if ready.
Lineup			
C	Cash	0.300	Quiroz in July if Cash doesn't hit
1B	Delgado	18.500	
2B	O-Dog	0.500	4 year deal?
SS	Woody	1.000	Or Gloveman - Bordick / FA
3B	Hinske	0.800	
LF	Cat	2.500	Trade for prospects mid-season
CF	Wells	0.700	
RF	Kielty	0.500	Gross in July (or sooner), Bob to LF
DH	Phelps	0.500	
Bench			
OF	Sparky	0.400	400 ABs, frequent defensive replacement
Utility	Berg	0.750	
C	Crash	1.500	FA if Greg wants more money
Glove	TBD	1.000	Bordick / Rule 5 / FA
Bat	TBD	0.500	Wilson / Pond / FA
-------	-------	-------	
Total	payroll	48.700	

I've got an 11 man pitching staff. If a Rule 5 pitcher is brought in, or if Tosca throws a hissy-fit, I could go with 12 pitchers and drop either the Glove or the Bat off the bench.

I'd consider the 4 man rotation again. Incidentally, did anyone ask Will Carroll about 4 man rotations (or 8 man tandem rotations) at the pizza feed?

Here's an interesting thought: Suppose Delgado is agreeable to deferring $6M of his 2004 salary (to be paid out in 2005 and 2006 at a reasonable interest rate). Do you take him up on that and make a serious 2004 playoff push?

Craig makes a good point about closers always being available, but I don't think that means you wait to get one. Billy Beane has perfected the art of flipping his closer, picking up value each time. I think J.P. can and should do the same.

If anybody else would like to play with / post their version of the above roster breakdown, e-mail me and I'll send you the spreadsheet. It doesn't contain any macros.