Did any Jays make the Baseball America list of top prospects from the Sally League?

It looks to me like Mastny is going to start next year in Charleston, instead of Dunedin. He's behind League and Perkins (both of whom are not ready for double A yet), as well as Hanson, Banks and Isenberg. I'm not counting Rosario, Leonard, Nin, Pleiness and Vermilyea (who may be converted back to a starting role). There sure are enough bodies for a tandem starting rotation, if the Jays were inclined that way.

Hanson is, in some ways, the most intriguing of these three. A high-school draftee in 1999 (in the 6th round -- you won't see that happen with the JP regime), he struggled in his first two years in rookie ball, then had knee surgery that wiped out his 2001 season. He returned to pitch well in the second half at Auburn last year, but fought command problems and general ineffectiveness at Charleston most of 2003. But August was his turnaround month, as Craig notes above, and I think he has a pretty good shot at opening 2003 at Dunedin (if there's room).

His stuff is comparable to Dustin McGowan's, if not quite as powerful -- explosive fastball consistently in the low 90s and a hard mid-80s curve. I don't know whether he has a good change or any other breaking pitches; if he's a two-pitch specialist, then that, combined with his size (5'11", 175), might make him an ideal closer. At his age (24 next August), he needs to get out of A-Ball.

Did any Jays make the Baseball America list of top prospects from the Sally League?

Brandon League at #13. They rave about his fastball, and for good reason; if and when he gets his breaking stuff (in his case, a slider) in order, look out.

I was wondering the other day what kind of club Gord Ash would have had if he had been under the same kind of payroll restraints as JP, and didn't have the option to hand out the kind of deals he did to stiffs like Hamilton, Parris, Bush, and Loazia. Although they left the farm system pretty barren of pitching prospects, especially at higher levels, the Ash regime did draft and develop almost an entire starting lineup of legitimate major leaguers. I'd even go so far as to suggest if he hadn't thrown away so much dough on mediocre or lousy players, perhaps he would have even had enough cash to keep both Green and Carlos.

What I'm getting at is that Ash was allowed to deviate from his organization's strength - drafting and developing hitters. Had he not had that option, would he have been more successful or would he never have built a decent pitching staff? What does anyone else think?

. Although they left the farm system pretty barren of pitching prospects, especially at higher levels, the Ash regime did draft and develop almost an entire starting lineup of legitimate major leaguers.

It might be difficult to tease out the impact of coaching. Remember JP has changed more than just the draft strategy.

I think there is a good chance that due to his age and results Hanson will start the year at AA. If you think about it, none of the current AA starters are good bets to return (Bush, McGowan, Gassner, Reimers are all likely to get promoted due to some combination of age and talent and Baker may get promoted or released - he is 26 I believe). As for who might move up from A, well Jesse Harper is probably moving up. After that it's a number of question marks. Nin and Pleiness are possibilities, neither had dominating peripherals but probably need to move up due to age and decent results. Perkins and League probably need more time in Dunedin. The only other options are Peterson as a starter (although he maybe headed for a career as a closer). Vermilyea may go as a starter but its hard to see him starting above Dunedin. Rosario probably needs to start back from injury at one of the A level teams. So, if I were guessing, I think the AA rotation will look like this:

Harper
Nin
Pleiness
Hanson
Peterson

With Peterson as a question mark given what JP ultimately foresees for him, I still think they may let him get more innings as a starter.

JP has changed more than just the draft strategy.

Something that shouldn't be ignored at the major league level either. The JBuck Martinezes and Jim Fregosis, though good people and baseball men, are not really the teachers of this world.

I'd even go so far as to suggest if he hadn't thrown away so much dough on mediocre or lousy players, perhaps he would have even had enough cash to keep both Green and Carlos.

Would Shawn Green have stayed if the Jays had offered him a long-term deal at the right time?

I've heard three theories about Green's departure:

1. The Jays could have had him signed earlier, but Ash made bad financial choices.

2. Green wanted to go home to California, and there was nothing they could have done to keep him. (This is the official version.)

3. Cito Gaston didn't treat Green with enough respect. When Cito was hired as the hitting coach, Green demanded a one-way ticket out of town.

Comments?

I've always thought it was a combination of 2 and 3.

Remember JP has changed more than just the draft strategy.

Good call, Andrew, and Rios is a prime example. Under Ash, he probably would have arrived in the Show as a taller version of Jose Cruz Jr., who wasn't completely uncoachable -- he does listen to his dad. J.P., through Dickie Scott and the New Haven staff, challenged Lexi to improve his plate discipline and change his approach. As a result, he made giant strides this year, and if he continues to embrace the Jays' philosophy, will be a much better player when he reaches the majors. If not, he'll be traded to an organization that values his considerable tools.

Green wanted to go home to California, and there was nothing they could have done to keep him.

In Rob Neyer's otherwise delightful Big Book of Baseball Lineups, he says Green wanted to play in a city with more Jews. Given the size of Toronto's Jewish community, that seems ridiculous. I think it was mostly geography, but Cito's style as a hitting coach may have been a factor.

My own opinion with Green was a combo of 1 and 3. If Ash hadn't been so clueless about the the finanical aspect of the GM's role, he would have locked Green up much earlier, as JP has done with Wells.

The point about the change in coaching personnel and philosophy is a very good one; I hadn't really considered that.

I don't mean to suggest an Ash club would have won the world series, but I think he could have had more success than he did had his hands been tied with a smaller budget.

Ash hadn't been so clueless about the the finanical aspect of the GM's role, he would have locked Green up much earlier, as JP has done with Wells.

By the way, while we're on the subject, how great a move was that? J.P. not only made Wells happy, he saved his bosses millions of dollars in doing so.

Congratulations are also in order for Gabe Gross who was selected to play for Team USA in the Olympic qualifying tournament this fall. The team will play in the Arizona fall league before they head to Panama. It should be a good learning experience for him.

Anyone have the stomach to offer up congratulations to Esteban F*!@#*#! Loaiza on his 20th win today?

Felicidades Esteban!

If Ash hadn't been so clueless about the the finanical aspect of the GM's role, he would have locked Green up much earlier.

Part of the problem, of course, is that Green spent a decent chunk of his arbitration-eligible years on the bench against lefties. I don't think platooning a guy for three years while renewing his salary at the league mimimum is the best way to build a franchise around him.

That said, Shawn is posting an uninspired .275/.348/.453 line in LA this year; he now has two seasons as a Dodger with an OPS above 940 and two seasons with an OPS under 840. I would've loved to have kept him around too, but that ain't necessarily been $13M/year production.

That said, Shawn is posting an uninspired .275/.348/.453 line in LA this year; he now has two seasons as a Dodger with an OPS above 940 and two seasons with an OPS under 840. I would've loved to have kept him around too, but that ain't necessarily been $13M/year production


According to Green, he's been playing with a hurt right shoulder since spring training. This is from September 2nd:


Shawn Green revealed Monday he has played with a painful right shoulder injury since spring training and expects to undergo surgery after the season, according to the LA Times. A recent MRI showed labrum damage and bursitis on the back of his right shoulder, and he has taken anti-inflammatory medication since the spring in an effort to remain in the lineup. "It's the type of injury where, regardless of how it feels, I'm going to play this year," said Green, who added that he would play in the postseason if the Dodgers win the NL Wild Card. "There's nothing I can do about it right now. I just have to play through it."


No idea why he chose to play through it. I wonder what the recovery time would have been had he decided to under the knife in March.

A question I will most definitely be asking Will Carroll on Saturday :)

No disrespect to Gord Ash, but he just was not prepared to be a major league General Manager. He could run the administrative side, but not the baseball side.

I think what happened to him is that, after a while, he believed that he could evaluate talent. He over-estimated the abilities of so many players both at the major league and at the minor league level.

Also, there was very little discipline on some of the minor league teams during his stewardship (Example: St. Catherines in 1998 and 1999--I remember a pitcher who should have been in uniform in his street clothes, eating beaver tails). Ash's tenure set the Jays back ten years...

Do you select the "baseball player" or the "athlete"? I believe that J.P. has answered this question! Our days of selecting and trying to develop stubborn "athletes" such as Andy Thompson while giving up on "baseball players who may not be ideal athletes" such as Jay Gibbons are over.

Thank you, J.P. for the most exciting season of Jays baseball that we have had in a long time. Looking forward to 2004!

Ditto, coliver.