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A place for discussing the Rookies of the Year for each league.

"A player shall be considered a rookie unless, during a previous season or seasons, he has (a) exceeded 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the major leagues; or (b) accumulated more than 45 days on the active roster of a major league club or clubs during the period of a 25-player limt (excluding time in the military service)."
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Coach - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#68726) #
AL:

1. Angel Berroa
2. Mark Teixeira
3. Rocco Baldelli
4. Aquilino Lopez
5. Reed Johnson

The exclusion of Matsui is a protest vote with absolutely no racist overtones. In fact, if you are really sensitive to how the Japanese players (and their fans) feel, you'd understand that it's a colossal insult to ignore their accomplishments. When the time comes to consider Ichiro for the Hall of Fame, it would be a racist argument to dismiss the seven consecutive batting titles he brought with him to North America, and overlook him because his MLB career was "too short."

Hockey put an age limit on RoY eligiblity, as a response to established stars from other countries dominating the NHL in their first seasons. Baseball should acknowledge the Japanese leagues' special status. Even if you think they are approximately AAA-equivalent in overall depth, it's obvious that a superstar in Japan can play anywhere.

NL:

1. Brandon Webb
2. Alex Cintron
3. Dontrelle Willis
4. Scott Podsednik
5. Marlon Byrd
Craig B - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#68727) #
I knew we'd get into this.

Coach, Matsui is rookie. He's a rookie by the league's guidelines, and is considered a rookie within the organization. He got dolled up with the rest of the rookies on rookie dress-up day. It doesn't show a player any disrespect by saying he's in his first year in the majors.

Is it an insult to Jose Contreras and Cuban baseball that he is considered a rookie as well? (Or also had to don a white faux fur hat? Ye Gods.)
_Rusty Priske - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 12:40 PM EDT (#68728) #
AL Rookies

1. Jody Gerut
2. Angel Berroa
3. Rocco Baldelli
4. Hideki Matsui
5. Mark Teixiera

NL Rookies

1. Brandon Webb
2. Scott Podsednik
3. Dontrelle Willis
4. Alex Cintron
5. hmmmm.... no one?
Craig B - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#68729) #
Rusty, how about Jason Phillips for NL rookie? He could fill out your ballot. .300/.374/.446 in a good pitchers' park.
Coach - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#68730) #
Cuban defectors haven't exactly set the major leagues on fire; they have one club (the national team) that could be considered remotely equivalent to say, the Detroit Tigers. The Japanese leagues are unique. Ichiro came over and won an MVP (even if it was undeserved) and Kaz Sasaki has been equally successful on both sides of the Pacific. Matsui (2003) and Matsui (2004) are perennial all-stars making a lateral transition. It's not a level playing field to compare them to a kid out of AA or AAA, taking a huge step up for the first time. Berroa had a better year than Godzilla, anyway.
Gitz - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#68731) #
AL:

1. Angel Berroa
2. Mark Texeira
3. Jody Gerut
4. Rocco Baldelli
5. Aquilino Lopez

NL:

1. Brandon Webb
2. Scott Podsednik
3. Marlon Byrd
4. Dontrelle Willis
5. Alex Cintron
Pistol - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#68732) #
AL:
Angel Berroa
Mark Teixiera
Hideki Matsui
Jody Gerut
Rocco Baldelli

NL:
Brandon Webb
Scott Podsednik
Dontrelle Willis
Alex Cintron
Marlon Byrd

I'm with Craig, as long as the rules are the way they are you have to vote for Matsui (if you think he's worthy). It's not the job of the voter to make the rules, it's the job of the voter to follow them.
Craig B - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 01:11 PM EDT (#68733) #
Alex Cintron, incidentally, is not eligible AFAIK.

AL

1. Angel Berroa
2. Francisco Rodriguez
3. Hideki Matsui
4. Jody Gerut
5. Rocco Baldelli

NL

1. Brandon Webb
2. Scott Podsednik
3. Dontrelle Willis
4. Marlon Byrd
5. Jason Phillips
Gitz - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#68734) #
No Cintron, eh? I'll take Craig's advice and plug Phillips in there, making our ballots identical. I'd llke to presume that great minds think alike, but that would be an insult to Craig.
Craig B - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 01:19 PM EDT (#68735) #
No respect for what Francisco Rodriguez has done... not just a 7-3 record, but more importantly 83 innings with a 3.14 ERA, 33 walks vs. 91 strikeouts. Opponents are hitting .174 off him, his WHIP is 0.99, his VORP is second-best among AL rookies next to Berroa.

His only blemish is giving up some home runs, but as none of the rookie hitters actually hit home runs (Teixeira excepted) I don't see how you can fault him too much for that.
_dp - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#68736) #
Respect for Phillips? Though he played mostly 1B, he can play catcher, was only kept at 1B because Wilson's a very good defender and Piazza is stubborn. Too bad about Reyes getting hurt; I think with a solid September he could've slipped onto some ballots.

Check out the Shea line from Phillips:
.354 .414 .556 .970

Damn nice, especially considering how little Yankee-hating New Yorkers had to entertain us at baseball's worst ballpark this season.
_Scott Lucas - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#68737) #
AL:
Angel Berroa
Jody Gerut
Mark Teixeira
Hideki Matsui
Rocco Baldelli

Gerut gets higher placement than Tex. The Jake has been freakishly pitcher-friendly this season, while The Ballpark is its usual jacktastic self, and Teixeira has been pretty weak outside of Arlington. If Matsui weren't eligible, bump up Baldelli and put Frankie Rodriguez in 5th.

NL:
Brandon Webb
Scott Posednik
Dontrelle Willis
Alex Cintron
Marlon Byrd

In terms of raw OPS, Posednik, Cintron, Byrd and Phillips are pretty closely grouped. Jason Phillips has the best OPS and is in a pitcher's park, but he plays a much less demanding defensive position. So he's 6th. Maybe Jerome Williams is 7th. After watching Keith Ginter tear up the Texas League in 2000, I'm glad to see him finally get some everyday play.
Mike Green - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#68738) #
The funny thing about the NL Rookie award is that the player who clearly has the best future, and who is performing remarkably at age 20 in the heat of a pennant race, Miguel Cabrera, has no chance to even contend for the rookie award. Mark Teixeira, Cabrera's counterpart in the AL, will at least get a few votes.

Anyways, I remember the year that Alfredo Griffin and John Castino shared the award, and so far as I know Cooperstown has not yet summoned them.
robertdudek - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#68739) #
I think Jose Reyes has a brighter future than Cabrera.
Mike Green - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#68740) #
Jose Reyes' minor league MLEs translated to Shea have been roughly .255/.325/.400. At Norfolk this year, he went .269/.333/.356. Miguel Cabrera went .365/.429/.609 this year in double A before getting the call.

Robert, my money's on the converted third baseman-leftfielder with the big bat over the slick-fielding shortstop, but actually they both probably have much better futures than any of the names here.
_Ben NS - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#68741) #
AL RoY
1) Matsui
2) Teixeira
3) Baldelli
4) Gerut
5) Lopez

NL RoY
1) Webb
*space denotes lack of closeness between Webb and Willis*
2) Willis
_Jurgen - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#68742) #
AL
1. Berroa
2. Rodriguez
3. Teixeira

NL
1. Webb
2. Podsednik
3. Willis
Mike Green - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#68743) #
There does seem to be consensus picks here, Berroa and Webb. I agree with the consensus.
_Ben NS - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#68744) #
After a quick look at the stats, I will change my ballot. Berroa shoots up from a non-ranking to numero uno. He deserves it , even if you do include Matsui, especially when you consider the postion that he plays.
_Ben NS - Monday, September 22 2003 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#68745) #
Will Lopez or Johnson garner any voting support?
Do they deserve any?
_Ich bin Gott - Wednesday, April 14 2004 @ 12:14 AM EDT (#68746) #
Robert: Saying Reyes has a brighter future than Cabrera is ridiculous. All Reyes has proved is that he can spend lots of time on the DL, while Cabrera has set all sorts of rookie records in the 2003 postseason. Presently, he's beginning the 2004 season right where he left off last year, currently leading the league with 5 HR (as of April 13). He can also play multiple positions (SS,3B,LF,RF), and he has a great arm.
Craig B - Wednesday, April 14 2004 @ 08:55 AM EDT (#68747) #
I still think Reyes is ahead of Cabrera (who has a raft of old player's skills), but what do I know.

Anyway, you will notice that this stuff was written last September, before the 2003 playoffs and well before this April.
Mike Green - Wednesday, April 14 2004 @ 09:32 AM EDT (#68748) #
Craig, I'm a bit puzzled by the comment that Cabrera has a raft of old player's skills. In a young player, it makes me think of Phil Plantier or Tom Brunansky. Big guys who are slow as molasses, hit for power, draw walks and hit for a low average. Is premature balding part of the picture as well?

I haven't seen Cabrera that much, but he seems to me to have average speed at this point in his career. He doesn't draw many walks yet, and it looks like he will hit for a pretty good average. He's also very thin, and started out his minor league career as a shortstop. He doesn't fit the profile that I'm used to of the "old" young guys.

This really belongs in the roundup section, but I'm mystified by the Expos' re-signing of Livan Hernandez for $21 million for three years, after having put in a poor effort to re-sign Vlad. I presume that these decisions are determined by MLB's salary budget dictates, but I imagine that Expos' fans are pulling out their hair.
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