Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Game 154: Listless Lidle

This is a repeat of last Sunday's pitching matchup in Toronto. A seemingly indifferent Cory Lidle grooved a few in the first inning and fell behind 3-0, then after the Jays cut the lead to 3-2, a sixth-inning 2-run shot by Jay Gibbons sealed the deal. On The FAN 590 the other night, Mike Wilner speculated that Lidle won't get any offers as a free agent and may have to accept a minor-league contract with an invitation to spring training. Good riddance. Of course, that's what we all said about Esteban Loaiza.

Baltimore southpaw Matt Riley went five innings for his first big-league win, four years after being rushed to the Show while barely out of his teens. He had good success in AA (5-2, 3.11) and AAA (4-2, 3.58) this year, striking out a combined 150 while walking 51 and giving up 126 hits in 142.2 IP. In his first AL start, he was touched for a solo homer by Josh Phelps, along with three singles and three walks. We'll see tonight if the Jays learned anything about him.

It's possible this will be the last we see of Mr. Lidle. There has been talk about Trever Miller and Jason Kershner being mentally and physically exhausted, so Mark Hendrickson (still listed as tomorrow's starter on ESPN.com) might be more useful in the bullpen. If Pete Walker goes Sunday, Roy Halladay can open the home stand on his normal rest Monday. Then it would be Josh Towers and Kelvim Escobar, and the skipper has hinted that he'd like to get Vinny Chulk a start. Thursday against Tampa would seem like the logical spot. They could go Walker-Halladay-Towers next weekend vs. Cleveland. On the other hand, if Lidle is OK tonight but Walker struggles, we could see Cory one more time. Whoopee.

Weekends are always quiet in Da Box, and a meaningless ball game on a Saturday night, featuring our least favourite pitcher not named Tanyon, might not be a huge attraction. But for the team, it's a chance to win five in a row, move eight games over .500, and improve to 9-1 in their last ten games. And for the fans, there are only eight more chances after tonight to see the 2003 Jays perform. Vernon Wells, who admits he's tired from the long campaign, is hitting .386 and slugging .643 in September; in addition to leading the majors in hits, he's second to Albert Pujols in extra-base hits and total bases. On the radio pregame, Carlos Tosca just called V-Dub "the most talented player in the American League."

There are a few surprises in the lineup -- Tom Wilson is the catcher, Chris Woodward is at short and Orlando Hudson gets a rare start against a lefty. Eric Hinske, who has an astounding 18 doubles in just 122 AB vs. lefthanders this year, is back in the 2-hole despite an 0-for-2 off Riley last week.

Posted by Coach on Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 06:45 AM EDT.

Game 154: Listless Lidle | 23 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

_Jacko - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 07:41 PM EDT (#91502) #

Interesting.

Compared to last week, Riley is throwing harder, but looks like it has less movement.

I wonder if the second time around the Jays will start sitting on his fastball. Then again, his breaking stuff looks pretty sharp as well (he says as Orlando flails at a breaking ball for strike three).

Coach - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 07:49 PM EDT (#91503) #

Yeah, O-Dawg does a lot of flailing from the right side, and he also takes a lot of hittable pitches. He's not a guess hitter batting left, but he's getting himself out batting right.

Lidle also looks better tonight. More focus, good command.

Coach - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#91504) #

Lidle's been solid; Matos went down to get one curveball and roped it into the left-field seats for the game's only run. Reed Johnson extended his club record hit streak to 17 in the first inning, then stretched a single into a double, but the rest of the team got just one hit off Riley and none so far off lefty reliever John Parrish.

Elsewhere, Esteban Loaiza returned on three days' rest, but did not get his 20th win, and is in line for the loss, as K.C. leads the fading White Sox 4-1 in the seventh.

Coach - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#91505) #

All right!

Kielty drew a leadoff walk in the seventh, advanced to third on a Woodward double that Gibbons probably should have caught, then scored on a wild pitch. Tie ball game.

As Robert pointed out in another thread, the Mariners aren't going away without a fight. Seattle whomped the A's 9-3 today, and with Meche going against Harden tomorrow, just might sweep.

Knowing the Astros had lost in extra innings, the Cubs had a huge opportunity against the Pirates, but are on the verge of blowing it. The Phillies are losing; the Marlins are winning. There's nothing like September.

_mathesond - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#91506) #

Craig B - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#91507) #

Sigh. 2-1 on a Texas Leaguer.

Coach - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#91508) #

I got to see Jason Bay for the first time tonight on WGN. Good patience and plate discipline; he's walked twice. Of course, the Cubs aren't throwing him many fastball strikes after what he did to them yesterday. In the first game of a doubleheader, the Trail, B.C. native, who celebrates his 26th birthday today, hit a grand slam, a 2-run homer and a 2-run double -- an 8 RBI game. Brian who?

A very unhappy Lidle was yanked with one out in the eighth after a 40-foot single by Matos off the end of the bat. Trever Miller, who I suggested earlier is running on empty after 75 appearances, came in to allow back-to-back singles to lefty batters Bigbie and Gibbons (the latter an opposite-field bloop) and it's 2-1 O's, with Cory on the hook for the L unless the Jays can rally off flamethrowing Jorge Julio.

robertdudek - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#91509) #

Philly has lost but Atlanta inches closer on a 2-run shot by Sheffield (the ball was down and in and he swept his bat around hitting a low screamer over the LF wall). Florida leads 5-3 after 8. Cleveland scored 7 runs in the 6th to lead Boston 8-4.

_Chuck Van Den C - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#91510) #

I concede that this is 20-20 hindsight, but Tosca has simply not been pushing the right buttons tonight.

Runners at 2nd and 3rd, he lets Hudson bat against a LHP.

Runner at 1B with two out, he pinch-hits for Phelps against a RHP (he could have saved Myers for Kielty or Woodward).

Lefties Bigbie and Gibbons due up, he replaces a non-struggling Lidle with a LOOGY who's not.

robertdudek - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#91511) #

Cleveland scored those runs in the 7th and have added 3 in the 8th to lead 11-4. Seattle fans' spirits rise.

Craig B - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#91512) #

That popout from Woodward was total BS. You don't swing at the first pitch from Julio.

robertdudek - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#91513) #

Javier Lopez has just tied the major league single season record for homeruns as a catcher with his 41st (as a catcher). Matt Franco flies out: 2 out, bases empty, 5-4 Florida, Vinny Castilla up.

robertdudek - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#91514) #

Castilla walks. Pinch runner Garcia for Castilla; pinch hitter Julio Franco (for Ray King) at the plate. Franco rolls one up the middle just past the 2B Castillo, Garcia goes to third. Leadoff hitter Mark Derosa up. Pinch runner Langerhans for Franco. Ball 1. Strike Called. Ball low and away.

robertdudek - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#91515) #

Ball way outside. 3-1 count, Giles on deck. Derosa slaps a single into RF. Tie game. McKeon pulls Looper.

robertdudek - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#91516) #

Ex-Red Sox Chad Fox is in the game. Giles up with the winning run at 2nd. Quickly 0-2 on the batter. Tapper to the 1B, third out and we head to extra innings.

Coach - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#91517) #

Tosca has simply not been pushing the right buttons tonight.

No argument here, Chuck. Hudson was an automatic out in that spot; Berg might have at least drawn the walk. Leaving Once-a-week Wilson, whose bat speed has slowed since June, in to face Julio was another head-scratcher. I know Cat's hamstring is sore, but Howie Clark had a better chance to advance the runner.

The quick hook on Lidle was partly because Bigbie had hit him the last two times up, partly because Cory had slipped trying to field the Matos nubber. A mound visit to regain his breath and his composure would have been more appropriate, and going a dead-armed reliever was a mistake.

Coach - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#91518) #

Wow. The Marlins blew it. They won't sleep very well tonight.

_gid - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 10:43 PM EDT (#91519) #

A comment on the Faults/Cerutti commentary. Somewhere around the 6th/7th inning, Faulds mentioned that Lidle had made "one mistake", referring to a home run that at that point was the Orioles' only run. Later on, maybe in the 8th, they replayed that home run, and Cerutti mentioned that it was a curve ball "low in the strike zone, maybe out of the strike zone" and that the batter had "golfed it". I happened to have missed seeing the swing (original and replay), but assuming Cerutti was right in the simple observation about where the pitch was and what the batter had to do to hit it, then you could make a reasonable argument that the pitch was not a mistake at all -- the batter just flat out beat Lidle fair and square on reasonably good pitch.

The bigger problem with Faulds' original "one mistake" comment is that by that point in the game, Lidle had probably made any number of "mistakes" -- but the Oriole batters simply had not hit home runs off them. Cliches like "homerun = mistake" are horribly inaccurate. Often mistakes do lead to home runs. But certainly not always. Most of the time, they probably become nothing (foul balls, fly balls, ground outs). Some of the time, they become hits. And some of that fraction of the time, those hits are home runs. Conversely, not all hits are hit off bad pitches -- it shouldn't be surprising that major league batters sometimes hit well-located pitches, including for home runs.

Some previous thread mentioned rumors of Faulds not getting the play-by-play job next year. Cerutti certainly comes in for his share of criticism around here, but I think he's way better than Faulds. With a better play-by-play guy who he doesn't have to cover up for, Cerutti would be more relaxed and less likely to make the sort of poorly worded sentences and false starts that he makes now. For what it's worth, a few folks have expressed a preference for Candiotti over Cerutti, but my $.02 on Candiotti is that his speech is so pedantic sounding (Al Gore style) that it's almost impossible to listen to him. Maybe it's just me.

Coach - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 10:43 PM EDT (#91520) #

OK, now I'm confused. Mike Wilner reported a 6-5 Atlanta win and CBS Sportsline said Sheffield scored in the bottom of the tenth. Why are they playing the 11th?

robertdudek - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#91521) #

It was bases loaded 1 out for Atlanta, bottom of 10th. A groundball was hit and Sheffield was forced at the plate for the 2nd out. The next batter flied out. Miguel Cabrera hit a leadoff homerun in the top of the 11th.

Coach - Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#91522) #

Well, it's not up there with "Dewey defeats Truman," but a couple of sources sure got that one wrong. The Internet reporters don't make too many mistakes, but earlier this year, in the big Jays ninth-inning comeback against the Royals, they all had Dave Berg hitting into a game-ending double play. Nobody's perfect.

Gotta love these wild card races.

_Greg Os Fan - Sunday, September 21 2003 @ 08:04 AM EDT (#91523) #

I wouldn't be surprised to see Cory in an O's uniform next year. He'd be a cheap veteran to fill space while their low minor-leqague arms progress, and if he reverts back to pre-2003 form, he just might bring a prospect in return at the deadline

Unlikely. The Os don't have enough room in the rotation for all the suspects they already have. No need to add another. Possible rotation: Ainsworth, Riley, Johnson, Moss, Lopez ... with Dubose around to pick up the slack. And they're making noises about signing an "ace".

_Ben NS - Sunday, September 21 2003 @ 08:19 PM EDT (#91524) #

On the radio pregame show today, I heard it mentionned that that should the Yanks let Andy Pettitte walk, the O's would pick him up in a heartbeat. Man, I cringe at the thouht of this because while Pettitte can still be a solid pitcher, he's extremely overrated and pretty old, too. It would be a shame to waste such a hefty amount of money when it could be spent on cheap, valuable pitchers or at least on someone who can contribute for more than one or two seasons. The O's are similar to the Mets in that they spend money, dump it and then instead of truly rebuilding spend more money. Hey, the aging lefty signed in the twilight of an otherwise all-star career (Leiter vs. Pettitte) would add to the similarities...

Game 154: Listless Lidle | 23 comments | Create New Account

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