Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Game 107: These Rays Sting

Of all the teams to have your number. The D-Rays would be playoff bound if they only played the Jays. As Robert said in last night's game thread:

It occured to me that the D-Rays are well-suited to turf. Fast guys who put the ball in play (and seem to get hits on grounders with maddening regularity), speedy outfield and good basestealers.

Yeah, and they have stolen a couple of wins this year with bloops and bleeders off hard-luck starters. Tonight, Lou sticks with RH Victor Zambrano, who was awful in April, better in May, 4-1 with a 2.36 ERA and .165 opponent's average in June, and has been mediocre in July. He was the winner in that horrible April game when a brilliant Hendrickson had a 2-0 lead through seven; the roof didn't cave in, it kinda crumbled. Vic's given up 17 earned runs in his last three starts, which prompted me to thank him for June and release him in the BBFL when Cliff Politte came off the DL.

Cory Lidle's on our side, for now. He might not be dealt; he's a guy who could clear waivers and he would probably bring draft pick compensation if there are no acceptable trade offers. His last start was more encouraging; the time before he was livid at a mysteriously quick hook. June's ERA 7.90 and July's (now down to 8.41) are embarrassing, and he only beat the D-Rays in May thanks to plenty of run support. For the umpteenth time, I'm hoping he's turned it around. It's the new "regular" lineup for the Jays; Woody, Berg and (sigh) Phelps are watching again. I think Hudson and Cat will sit with Myers against lefties; Berg can play some 2B and with Wilson catching, Josh has to either DH or play first. Woody will play when Bordick gets tired.

I'm pleased to have been wrong when I joked last night about the likely small crowd -- there were 21,007 on hand. There were exactly 14,007 (mostly disguised as empty seats) for the May opener against these guys. I hope the trend continues.

Posted by Coach on Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 07:01 AM EDT.

Game 107: These Rays Sting | 25 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Coach - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#95821) #

I think Pat Tabler's actually better than Cerutti and Candiotti, which isn't saying much. There's nothing to choose between Rod Black and Rob Faulds.

A couple of runners get on, so Lidle starts pitching to Travis Lee like he's Jason Giambi. So on 3-1, he changes the plan and lays a straight one in the middle of the plate. 2-0 Tampa.

_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 07:41 PM EDT (#95822) #

Cory Lidle might be my least favorite Jay ever. And that's saying a lot. I even was excited when I found out he was coming to the Jays, because he was sort of a 'pet' player of mine, someone I followed from the time I noticed him. So much for that.....

_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#95823) #

SPARKY!

And he damn near doubled him off......

_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 08:02 PM EDT (#95824) #

But even the 'plug couldn't catch that one.

_Grimlock - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#95825) #

Cory Lidle might be my least favorite Jay ever.

Me Grimlock's least favorite Jays ever include Homer Bush, Carlos Garcia, Jacob Brumfield, bullpen Kelvim Escobar, and Mike Timlin (even though he has the World Series save).

Coach - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 08:19 PM EDT (#95826) #

It was a terrific catch by Johnson. The hitting stars have been Delgado and Myers (who hit ropes to lead off the second) and Mike Bordick, who's 2-for-2, on a 9-game hit streak, and drove in the go-ahead run. Lidle gave that back on a 2-run shot by Jeff ".180" Liefer, so it's 4-3 Rays after four. Zambrano's given up six hits, issued two walks and wild-pitched in a run, so maybe the middle of the order will put him away next inning.

Coach - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#95827) #

Lidle did a nice job to escape the seventh after a leadoff double. He's at 83 pitches and has been OK, except for two fat mistakes. Zambrano's 97th pitch was ripped for a double by Reed Johnson, so maybe the Jays will pick Cory up right now.

_Spicol - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#95828) #

I'm not comparing the players, but watching Lidle pitch fills me with the same ugly sense of dread that I'd feel with Steve Parris on the mound. Prior to Parris it was Joey Hamilton that did that to me. Prior to Joey Hamilton, it was Erik Hanson.

I hate being reminded of Erik Hanson.

_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 08:57 PM EDT (#95829) #

Being reminded of Erik Hanson definitely isn't a good thing. At least he wasn't the Jays highly touted no. 2 starter at the beginning of the season.

_Spicol - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 09:00 PM EDT (#95830) #

More Rod Black Bashing: It's not called a pitch-out when it's an intentional walk there Roddie.

Coach - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 09:27 PM EDT (#95831) #

After Myers was called out on a pitch that looked outside, Kershner didn't get the call on one that was maybe an inch low. Tosca hollered at ump Paul Emmel from the dugout until he got tossed, then came onto the field to get his money's worth.

The Rays then scored their fifth run on a sac fly, but Cliff Politte came in and threw hard, getting a double-play grounder with his second pitch to end the rally. I presume he will continue into the ninth.

Mike D - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#95832) #

Grimlock, that really is skid row.

Carlos Garcia...

Mike D - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 09:32 PM EDT (#95833) #

I meant to say,

Carlos Garcia...(shudder)

_Spicol - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#95834) #

Carlos Garcia...(shudder)

But Orlando Merced is off the hook?

_Shane - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#95835) #

Reed Johnson's fine diving catch basically adds up to another dagger in Josh Phelps's AB's.

Corey Lidle is a putze.

Bobby Kielty has the patent down of 280 foot fly balls to the outfield.

Unlike last year, this years final two months will reveal a lot less of what's in store for next year. There's no hot prospects coming up to impress, so hopefully Thurman, Hendrickson, and maybe "prospect" types like Vinny Chulk will get some looks because the 40man roster management is going to be pretty interesting come October, as a lot of real prospects are going to need the space.

_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#95836) #

Did Carlos Garcia get mention in Da Box's unworthy all-star discussions? Because he deserves it.

_rodent - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 11:29 PM EDT (#95837) #

Surely Acker and Caudill deserve to be ranked among the unworthy.
And although Kelly Gruber is frequently mentioned as the Jays all-time third baseman, for me he's the prototype of all the gifted, ten-cent heads who've plagued us: Guzman, Escobar, Lopez, etc.

_rodent - Wednesday, July 30 2003 @ 11:44 PM EDT (#95838) #

I should have called Gruber poster boy, not prototype--he'd have to be back-dated.

Is anyone watching the Stones? Satisfaction sounds discouraged, but Jack Flash kicked.

_Shrike - Thursday, July 31 2003 @ 12:10 AM EDT (#95839) #

Actually, calling Juan Guzman a ten-cent head is doing him a great disservice, in my opinion.

Craig B - Thursday, July 31 2003 @ 08:35 AM EDT (#95840) #

I am ZLC member 134,000! Whoo-hoo!

I think it's a disservice to Juan Guzman too, who I think was a terrific pitcher; he was, however, a guy who was pretty fragile and got hurt a lot... not always predictably; the appendicitis was a weird thing and put him badly off track just when he was becoming one of the top five pitchers in the league. That's no mark on his brains. If it's the wildness one points too, remember how wild Jack Morris was too.

And Lopez is/was too young to be called on the carpet for being immature.

Phelps will be back earning regular time once Delgado's knees are healthy again, Shane. I wouldn't worry.

Reed Johnson is looking like a guy who will give good value for years, July struggles or no. Three years of this guy at bargain basement prices? Sounds nice.

And just to point out one thing on Erik Hanson... actually, he *was* the highly touted #3 starter coming into the season. Not #2, but close.

Dave Till - Thursday, July 31 2003 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#95841) #

I seem to recall reading that Guzman was quite intelligent.

Least favourite Jays: Junior Felix, Frank Viola, and John Frascatore. I also found it difficult to root for Jack Morris.

_Matthew Elmslie - Thursday, July 31 2003 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#95842) #

Surely Acker and Caudill deserve to be ranked among the unworthy.

Well, Caudill, maybe, but not Acker. Acker was good in all but his last year with the team. Unfortunately it's the last year that all too many people remember.

_rodent - Thursday, July 31 2003 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#95843) #

Excuse me. I suppose it's frustration talking. The first three years of Juan Guzman, usefully coinciding with the World Series wins, were remarkable. Guy wins four of five decisions, gets a ton of coverage for his work ethic (sprinting the stadium stairs,) and although he never looks truly comfortable on the mound, seems able, with the exploding high fastball and the-breaking-ball-without-a-name to get everybody out.

Then over the next few years--we attend a jillion games in the early and mid-ninties--all his little yips and lapses appear gradually to overwhelm his talent; the Gordie Howe shoulders cram up around his ears until he seemsto be peering from a shell crater.

I concede "ten-cent head was rude," especially seeing as Juan was way more responsible to his physical well-being than the reckless Gruber, but every time the little pinwheels start up behind the eyes of Escobar, I think of Guzzie.

I looked at Acker's numbers, and they seem fairly similiar to Paul Quantrill's--although Paul's bb/k ratio was a lot better, Acker has a better lifetime whip--and I have no complaints about Quantrill. Maybe it's the Tomahawk connection

And maybe "least favorite" is appropriately subjective.

_King Rat - Thursday, July 31 2003 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#95844) #

Least favourite Jay is easy for me-Alex Gonzalez. How I hated him. Non-existent offence, overrated defence...the girls swooning over him didn't help. The trade for Heredia remains my favourite Ricciardi deal.

_Donkit R.K. - Thursday, July 31 2003 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#95845) #

Craig B. ; I looked up Hanson's numbers at Baseball Reference and was surprised at his pre Blue Jays competence. I was wrong in thinking he was a scrub from the get-go.

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