OK, I said I wouldn't indulge in this kind of speculation, but here I go.

I've been e-mailing the Elephants in Oakland blogging team, and they passed on a Marcus Giles/Ted Lilly rumour. This would make sense for the A's since Giles:

1) Has some patience
2) Has some pop
3) Is a few years from free agency
4) Can't play defense

All these rumours are hobgoblinish, so let's remember that they're rumours, but this trade is a better fit for the A's than the Escobar/Lilly/Blanton one. Other rumours have Escobar going to the Cardinals, with Lilly still ending up in Toronto and J.D. Drew getting hurt on the plane ride from St. Louis to Oakland.

We've also been discussing Carlos Beltran and Brian Giles, but I can't see the A's hauling in either of them. The PR fallout for Allard Baird would be massively bad if he deals Beltran now.

Why would the Braves make that trade?

http://economics.about.com
I wanted to get the ZLC's opinion on this.

What do you think JP could get from the Giants for *both* Escobar and Lidle, if he agreed to pay their remaining 2003 salary?

Mike

Beltran to the A's makes sense, though. It would complete the Kansas City to Oakland Relocation Project with Dye, Damon and Beltran all making the same trip the entire A's franchise did 35 years ago.

What do you think JP could get from the Giants for *both* Escobar and Lidle

Jose Cruz Jr. :-)

(I am not contributing usefully to this discussion)

If JP were to do that for SF, I would hope he could get Jerome Williams plus a secondary pitching prospect. If he can it would make sense. Most likely though, Williams isn't available.

He could then turn around and use some of the free money to sign back one or both of Escobar and Lidle in the off-season. Assuming that was desirable. You've got to think Lidle isn't in line for a big pay day and he's better than he's shown in the past month and a half.

He's been discussed elsewhere, and yes, it's low A, but not a bad little line for yesterday (per BA report)

TM PITCHER IP H R ER BB K ERA
OAK J.Blanton 7.0 4 0 0 1 14 2.57 - Last 5 GS: 35 IP, 48 K

Dealing Escobar & Lidle to SF would more likely fetch Jesse Foppert (and perhaps a B- prospect). I would do that in a microsecond if I were JP, even if I had to eat some salary.

JD Drew taking his Glass Menagerie act to Oakland would be manifestly unfair, given what the Cards did to Oakland in the McGwire trade. Talk about gluttons for punishment.

Not even Allard Baird could possibly deal Beltran now. Face facts, Allard: if an unexpected pennant race and playing for Tony Pena can't convince Beltran to stay in KC, then wish him good luck, offer him arbitration and take the draft picks. Seattle did that with A-Rod and it worked out pretty well for them.

Mike, I think the Giants really only have pitching to offer, and all their best young arms are in the rotation already (I'm not sold on Boof Bonser). They wouldn't be able to sign both of those guys next year, I imagine, so the prospect of trading, say, Jerome Williams for three expensive years of Escobar and two months of Lidle may not appeal to Sabean. The sad reality is, there's just not much good pitching on the market right now, which is why Ted Lilly's name is being seriously discussed, I guess.

There hasn't been much scuttlebutt about Cory Lidle at all. Maybe his past few stinky outings have really cooled expectations that his legendary second-half run will take place again this year. I'd rather deal him than Escobar at this stage, but I'd rather have Frosted Cheerios for breakfast every morning, too.

Robert, there's no way the Braves would make that trade, I completely agree. But as this is trade/rumour central, I thought I'd pass it along anyhow.

Jordan, I can only hope the J.D. Drew talks are diversionary while Beane works to acquire a hitter who actually plays enough (read: ever) to make an impact.

Sean, you're right on about Foppert heading northeast in a scenario where Lidle and Escobar would wind up in San Francisco. I don't know if Lidle is any better than Foppert, however, as his 10 whiffs in six innings may suggest his fastball was pumping in the mid-to-high 90s again. I didn't see the game or hear any reports, so that's speculation about a speculative postulation. Etc.

Oh, and Beltran won't be traded this year, for reasons outlined above by Jordan and others, nor will he re-sign with the Royals. His agent is Scott Boras, and while I don't begrudge Boras too much -- he's just doing his job, whatever that is -- S(o)B won't accept the notion of a hometown discount.

(By the way, has anyone ever considered the odd double meaning for the word "resign"? One means to come back, the other means to quit. I would never want to learn this friggin' language cold.)

One more thing. (Sigh.) Yes, I understand that "resign," as in "I will re-sign with BB when my contract is up," should, in fact, be hyphenated, so it is therefore different than "resign," as in "I will resign from this board, an event people would no doubt appreciate."

[rant] Just all the more reason for people to use hyphens more -- such as "e-mail" vs. the despicable "email." [/rant]

People always forget the hyphen. I hate that.

Don't stop, John, I like your rants. ;)

On a serious note, I would like to re-iterate my desire to see Jesse Foppert pitch for the Blue Jays. Were it to cost Josh Phelps *and* Cory Lidle or Kelvim Escobar, I'd say: bye-bye.

The most glaring need for JP is above-average starting pitchers, which is the foundation for Billy Beane's success. Oakland could not have been so successful these last four seasons without its trio of inexpensive, excellent starters Zito, Hudson & Mulder. JP has to do all that he can to mimic that success, and the Jays should be willing to part with Phelps if that is what it takes. Very soon now Halladay will either be paid a king's ransom or be in pinstripes; JP needs a major league-ready starter with ace potential in the worst way for the Jays to contend for a WS in 2005.

Could Lidle and Escobar , with JP eating the salary since the Jays seem to be under budget, bring in 1 or 2 of Zach Greinke, Jimmy Gobble and Jeremy Affeldt from the Royals? Or maybe one of the pictures plus Phelps to try to ensure the landing of two of those pitchers.

As someone who not only uses "email" on a daily basis and has also been told numerous times by Gitz to use "e-mail," I will say that I now do it partly out of habit and partly because I know it annoys several people.

Trade process for rebuilding team:

1. Identify surplus
2. Identify needs.
3. Identify expected timeline to compete for division/pennant.
4. Identify teams with holes to fill who are in the race.
5. Of the teams in #4, identify the stupid teams and target them.

I'd say the Cubs just did a brilliant job of #5, and with the suggestion that we look to KC, maybe we have, too. With KC's recent rash of SP injuries and their need for a stick, particularly at OF, maybe they'd be a good target. Maybe some combo of Lidle/Escobar/Cat/Cash could bring back Gobble, Gotay, Affeldt or some combination thereof.

6. Steal underwear.
7. ?
8. Profit!

6. Steal underwear.

I am going to assume this is a sly pop culture reference to the Underwear Gnomes of South Park fame.

Aaron, the fact you use "email" to annoy people like me wins you tons of points in your favor.

I am going to assume this is a sly pop culture reference to the Underwear Gnomes of South Park fame.

Ah-yup. :-)

If JP were to target KC for a possible trade, I'd like to voice my liking for Kyle Snyder. The one game I've attended this year in Oakland, he did reasonably well in a 3-1 loss vs. Mulder. He's not likely to command an excessively high price in the trade market like Greinke or Gobble, yet is already doing reasonably well at the ML level.

Gitz, you need to identify other pet peeves for the denizens of the Box to exploit. :)

Just hazarding a guess here, but if you really want to annoy Gitz, go read his A's column, then send him "email" asking him questions about things he's already completely covered, fill the email with grammatical errors and typos, ask if he has talked to anyone in the A's front office who can confirm the Scott-Hatteberg-for-Bartolo-Colon rumors, and be sure to end your email with a signature file that quotes "George W. Bush, Great American."

Am I the only one who thinks it's blindingly logical for J.P. and Billy to be talking about Cat or Kielty going to Oakland? Is Billy not willing to give up anything genuinely valuable?

Any of Philadelphia's 5 starters would look real good behind Roy Halladay, and Ed Wade has been quite accommodating in the past... but I don't see a glaring weakness for Philly.

Not so fast, my friend. You are on the right track, of course, identifying Philly as another traditionally stupid team (Larry Bowa, anyone?). Haven't you noticed the hue and cry over Pat Burrell's batting average? Escobar + Cat? He needs a new home...

I like the way you're thinking lurker, but I really got shot down the last time I floated Escobar and Duckworth's names together... granted my suggestion was a ludicrous, but I suspect other Bauxites will be skeptical of this one as well.

I doubt that the Phillies would trade for pitching. Other than Duckworth, the pitching has been very good in Philadelphia. The major hole in Philadelphia is 3rd base. We all know however, that Ed Wade would rather trot out the predictably horrible David Bell every day instead of admitting he made a mistake.

In my opinion, the contract to David Bell is worse than other albatross contracts like the one given to Chan Ho Park. When Park was signed money was still being tossed around like nobody's business and Park was the best free agent pitcher available. Bell is a weak hitting, over the hill 3rd baseman who parlayed a reputation as a 'clutch hitter' into a fat contract. In the same market paying Jose Hernandez pesos, this contract was inexcusable.

I concur. The Phils are second in the NL in pitching, but well into the lower half in runs scored; they need hitters. They picked up Mike Williams to be Jose Mesa's setup man (blind setting up the blind?), so I don't see any place for Escobar there at all, and I don't think Cat will be the kind of batter who impresses Larry Bowa. Plus, not only can I not see the Phils giving up on Burrell after one bad half-season, isn't he already (or about to become) awfully expensive? Maybe Philly might part with Duckworth in the off-season, but they'd want an "established bat," and the Jays don't have any (without a no-trade clause) that they'd be interested in. I can't see a fit.

Also, you never like to see an injury, but Matt Morris has a fractured finger and is likely out till at least September 1. If there was ever a time to ship a pitcher to St. Louis, it's now....

Burrell signed a six-year, $50 million before this season.

There you are. That's way too rich for Toronto blood. Thanks, Gitz.

Actually, I thought that Burrell was undervalued. By the time the contract runs out, Burrell will only be 32, still at the peak of his career. If he turns it around -- as I think he will -- he'll be a relative bargain at that price.

For what it's worth, Peter Gammons on Baseball Tonight reported that the Blue Jays won't trade Kelvim Escobar to the A's unless the A's give them Joe Blanton in return (along with Ted Lilly), something, according to Gammons, the A's are not willing to do right now. Gammons also reported that the A's think Blanton could be ready for the rotation next year, something I find hard to believe.

Making a deal with SF to get Foppert is way beyond my wildest dreams. I would love to see him in the organisation. To prise him from SF's clutches we have got to give up more than half years of escobar + lidle even if we pay the salaries, we would be getting one of the top 5 pitching prospects in the game.
Considering the price of pitching at the moment, especially good young pitching, if JP could pull this off i would seriously eat my hat and my trousers, heck i'll eat everthing i got on......(and ppl can hold me to this)

I'm partial to prospects so I'm a bit biased on this one, but to be frank i would pay for Fopperts flight to Toronto.

In the end no way this is gunna happen as much as i would love it to.

Would it be worth it to package a good hitting prospect along with Escobar/Lidle to snag Foppert? Maybe Gross? Is that too much?

Way too much. As good a prospect as Foppert is, he's still a prospect. Escobar has a lot of current value and Lidle has less but not much less. There's no way I'd trade 2 established starting pitchers for a prospect who has struggled in his rookie year. Adding Gross would make it a ridiculously imbalanced trade.

I was thinking perhaps Ainsworth and Foppert for Escobar and a prospect (I don't think the Giants would want Lidle, seeing as he wouldn't really be an upgrade for them after acquiring Escobar).

Back to the Cubs-Pirates trade: the Player To Be Named Later apparently will be either Steve Smyth, Francis Beltran, or -- surprisingly, to me at least -- Bobby Hill. Does anyone think the Cubs have given up on Hill too quickly? Certainly, if the Pirates pass him over, that would signal a huge drop in his stock.

Just to preserve some belief in my sanity, the Burrell proposal was in jest. Although as my father says, there's a kernel of truth in every joke. Meaning that it would be just like Philly to deal a guy because of a bad 1/2 year.... Or to pay an aging, powerless 2B-playing-3B just because he's a "clutch" hitter....