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Something has to inspire the Jays' slumping starter. He's been absolutely awful recently -- 0-2 with a 14.54 ERA in July, 2-5 and 9.20 over his last eight starts -- and the Red Sox love hitting against him. Cory’s allowed a .354 AVG in two outings against them this year, and is 1-2, 7.12 in five career starts and five relief appearances vs. Boston. Bill Mueller, David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez are a combined 10-for-16 off Lidle in 2003; Manny’s 6-for-12 lifetime.

Cory is well aware that his career record prior to this year was 5-15, 5.17 in the first half, and 20-7, 2.92 after the break -- could that knowledge restore his missing confidence? He also watched Doc and Kelvim shut down the BoSox the last two nights, so there's at least a chance he'll follow suit.

Ramiro Mendoza’s a perfect 2-0 (allowing just one earned run) since returning from the DL; he’s gone five strong innings each time, beating the Yankees and Jays. Carlos Tosca keeps inventing new lineups, and I like what he's done tonight. Of course, Vernon Wells is back, and he's gone deep twice, doubled and driven in six runs off Mendoza in just six AB this year. Mike Bordick is 5-for-13 lifetime against the righty, the shaky-fielding Chris Woodward just 1-for-5, so who would you play at short? Howie Clark is the DH, batting second, with Bobby Kielty in the 5-hole and Tom Wilson (2-for-3 off Mendoza) hitting sixth. I have a hunch that the Jays, in a positive frame of mind, will score a few runs, so if Lidle does find his groove, it could be another good game.
Game 98: Second Half Turnaround For Lidle? | 47 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Lurch - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#97021) #
I don't like that Lidle let Nomar go from 0-2 to 3-2 to On Base.

Mendoza is getting on my nerves, where's McBain when you need him?
_Mike H. - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#97022) #
Nice rip by Hudson. It's only a matter of time when all those groundballs start getting past Red Sox infielders.
Coach - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:37 PM EDT (#97023) #
Lidle has a right to be upset -- he's pitched better tonight and is trailing by just a run, having thrown just 75 pitches. Tosca had him intentionally walk Ramirez with two out in the fifth, then went to the bullpen for Kershner to face Ortiz. Cory stomped right through the dugout into the clubhouse.
_George Tsuji - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#97024) #
Anyone with access to the Tigers-White Sox game right now might want to check it out...
_snellville jone - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:46 PM EDT (#97025) #
Just the fact the fact that the ChiSox ar getting beat by Detroit again, or is there more?
_Mike H. - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:49 PM EDT (#97026) #
Maybe it was Paul Konerko actually getting a hit?
_snellville jone - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:50 PM EDT (#97027) #
Ouch.
_snellville jone - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#97028) #
What was Tosca thinking, anyhow?
Coach - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#97029) #
Kielty ties it up with a two-out RBI double. Tommy Wilson then cashes in two more with a double, and the Jays lead 4-2. Lidle probably has mixed emotions; he's enough a team guy to be happy about the lead, but he has to be seething at the quick hook.

That chases Mendoza, and now it's up to the Toronto bullpen.
_Jim - TBG - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#97030) #
http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
Way to redeem thyself Mr. Wilson.

I'm going to disagree with Cerutti here. I doubt Lidle is as relieved to be "off the hook" as he is steamed that he would now be position to pick up a win.
_Graham Hudson - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:54 PM EDT (#97031) #
Conspiracy theory answer: They want Lidle's ERA to drop down a bit more so they can sell him off later, so they are limiting the opportunity for him to give up that "one big inning". As well, they are going to stretch out Kershner a bit so they can turn him into a starting pitcher.

BTW, I would have yanked Wilson out of there and sent up Myers in the 6th (with 2 out and men on 2nd/3rd) if I was in charge. Glad I'm not.
_Gwyn - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#97032) #
Just the fact the fact that the ChiSox ar getting beat by Detroit again, or is there more?

Cornejo had a no-hitter going into the seventh.
_Mark - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:58 PM EDT (#97033) #
http://jeays.net
I'm getting very irritated with Tosca's handling of the relievers. Why on earth did he pull Lidle with 2 out in the 5th, only 86 pitches in, not in massive trouble, only down 1 run? It may have worked out but they could have gotten at least another inning out of Lidle and with the bullpen the shape it's in they need the starters to go deep as much as possible

Thankfully the Jays just struck: walk, HBP, double by the "new kid" (5 for 9 and 2 walks as a Blue Jay so far...) and another double by Frankencatcher. This game is far from over though.
_Jim - TBG - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#97034) #
http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
Is it just me, or is Kevin Millar modelling his look on the evil Yankee slugger from "Major League" - (played by ex-Jay Pete Vukovich) ?
_Mike H. - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:01 PM EDT (#97035) #
I'm glad Tosca is moving Kershner out of the LOOGY role. He looks too good to be shoehorned into that role.
_Mike H. - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#97036) #
Ouch, Mueller just crushed that one.
Coach - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:17 PM EDT (#97037) #
They've had Service up a couple of times, but I'm not too confident about him facing Nomar and Manny next inning. Of course, the other options aren't great -- Thurman, Sturtze, or wearing out Lopez. I'd use Acevedo; there will be nothing to save if the lead slips away in the seventh. Politte can't return soon enough.

Where's Gil Patterson tonight? Bruce Walton is making the mound visits.
_Andrew Edwards - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:20 PM EDT (#97038) #
...and that is why we try to minimize steal attempts.
_Gwyn - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#97039) #
Where's Gil Patterson tonight? Bruce Walton is making the mound visits

Coach I was wondering the same thing - I would have thought someone at Sportsnet would have been able to find out.
_Eric C - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#97040) #
According to the Sportsnet duo Patterson is off attending a family wedding.
_Gwyn - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:29 PM EDT (#97041) #
According to the Sportsnet duo Patterson is off attending a family wedding.

I never pay enough attention :-)
Coach - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#97042) #
Service and Miller sure came through; those were two huge outs for the big fella. This is nerve-wracking, but fun to watch. Now what? Leave the lefty in to work very carefully to Millar and face Nixon, or is it Aquilino time?

Another good plan would be to score a few runs right now...
_Vernon Wells - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#97043) #
Another good plan would be to score a few runs right now...

You called?
_Lurch - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#97044) #
Damn it!

I hope these bases loaded things don't hurt the Jays.
_Gwyn - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#97045) #
I was surprised the Sox would rather face Frankencatcher-left than Frankencatcher-right.

They got the result they wanted though.
_Andrew Edwards - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#97046) #
If you're Grady, why do you go to Jones there?

You know Tosca's going to bring in Myers for Wilson, and then you've got righty Jones facing Myers and Hinske.

I may have found a manager whose approach to substitutions I like less than Tosca's.
_Andrew Edwards - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#97047) #
That it worked out is utterly beside the point.
_Lurch - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#97048) #
Yeah, Sox fans hate Grady's bullpen work.

That pop-bunt was a nice stroke of luck in return for those DP bases loadeds.
Coach - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#97049) #
What a sequence by Acevedo (and Myers) to whiff Varitek! 94 mph heat low and away, then a gorgeous changeup above the belt, followed by the high cheese. Juan was obviously distracted against the Yankees, but that's as good as he's pitched all year.

The ninth won't be easy with the top of the order coming up.
Coach - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#97050) #
FYI: Elliotte Friedman has a good interview with Carlos Delgado on The Score; I caught a moment of it during a pitching change, and if it's on an hourly rotation, try about the :45 minute mark. On the radio pregame tomorrow at 1:30, Tom Cheek will talk to Bobby Kielty.
_dave bell - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:16 PM EDT (#97051) #
ouch... garciaparra scores to tie it up
_Cristian - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:17 PM EDT (#97052) #
Someone explain to me why Ramirez wasn't just walked when Garciaparra stole second; especially with Ramirez already at 3 balls.
Coach - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:17 PM EDT (#97053) #
How could that not be interference on Ramirez when he strolled across the plate while Myers was trying to throw to second? The non-call led directly to the tying run. This sucks.
Coach - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:19 PM EDT (#97054) #
Christian, that was strike two. Manny then interfered with the catcher on the "steal" and not wanting to start a riot, the ref swallowed his whistle.
_Duane Grassbaug - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:19 PM EDT (#97055) #
Jerry Remy on the NESN broadcast, flat out said it was interference and that the Sox had gotten away with one....what a shame..
_Lurch - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#97056) #
Aaaarrrggghhh...

At least Hudson looks good again.
_Lurch - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#97057) #
I swear, Cat swings at more pitches in the dirt than anyone other than Vladdy.
Coach - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#97058) #
Good for Rem-dog. Umpire Paul Schrieber is the worst kind of coward; he knows the rule and didn't have the guts to call it to end the game. There would have been 34,000 noisy critics instead of a few outraged bloggers.
_Duane Grassbaug - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#97059) #
And most importantly, he would have done his job right
_snellville jone - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#97060) #
Battle of the BKs?
_Duane Grassbaug - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:29 PM EDT (#97061) #
were those 1st 2 pitches to Kielty strikes? l
_Lurch - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#97062) #
The 2nd one to Kielty was one of new-fangled ankle strikes.
Gerry - Saturday, July 19 2003 @ 11:53 PM EDT (#97063) #
Nobody mentioned it but the Jays fell short in the third and fourth innings tonight. In the third Hudson tripled with one out and Bordick swung at the first pitch, straight to Nomar. No run scored.

In the fourth Mendoza was shaky. He walked Wells, Delgado tripled on a 3-1 count and he walked Kielty. Clark was out to start the inning. So bases loaded with one out, a pitcher who is having difficulty throwing strikes, so what does Wilson do? Hit the FIRST pitch to Mueller for the 5-2-3 DP. I said to myself, there goes the game, right there.
_R Billie - Sunday, July 20 2003 @ 12:50 AM EDT (#97064) #
Where was Tosca (or Myers for that matter) to complain about the interference? It's not like that wasn't an important non-call.

And then why was Tosca STILL asleep after that play to let Acevedo pitch to Ramirez with a base open? Why would Myers call a fastball? Things we'll never know the answer to.
_David - Sunday, July 20 2003 @ 01:53 AM EDT (#97065) #
Conspiracy theory answer: They want Lidle's ERA to drop down a bit more so they can sell him off later, so they are limiting the opportunity for him to give up that "one big inning".

I thought that Tosca just wanted to win the game and doesn't trust Lidle. But the AP game notes do say "There were an unusual number of scouts on hand. They were likely watching Lidle, who has been the subject of trade rumors." Did anyone notice JP on his cell talking to Carlos in the dugout?
Coach - Sunday, July 20 2003 @ 07:40 AM EDT (#97066) #
Things we'll never know the answer to.

Geoff Baker of the Star got this response from Myers:

"It was pretty close to hitting him," he said of his throw, which just got by Ramirez. "But I think they look at it as, if you get the throw off, it doesn't make contact and it doesn't affect the throw, then they're not going to call it."

Tosca knew an argument would be pointless, I guess. Why they threw Manny the 3-2 fastball with first base open remains a mystery.

Among the scouts watching Lidle was Bob Gebhard of the Cardinals, according to Richard Griffin, who offers an interesting theory about what's been wrong for Cory in today's column:

It may be coincidence, but starting on June 4, Lidle's first assignment after the Jays announced ill-fated plans to go to a four-man rotation, it all went sour. Lidle was the one pitcher who threw a monkey-wrench into the four-man concept, saying that he had been injured in the past and that he had to think of his future career.

Tosca told Griffin there's no friction between the pitcher and the coaching staff. It didn't look that way in the fifth inning last night, but soon, it won't matter. There have been been rumours of a deal involving Lidle and J.D. Drew, which makes no sense until you add the third party -- Oakland. The A's, in need of a RF with a bat, would happily send prospects to Toronto for Drew. Stay tuned.
Pistol - Sunday, July 20 2003 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#97067) #
I agreed with pulling Lidle in the 5th. The bullpen was pretty rested coming off the All Star break and Halladay's complete game. Lidle's been awful recently and if he gives up a hit with the bases loaded when it's 2-1, the score will quickly be at least 4-1 and there still will be the threat of more runs. Lidle hasn't earned the right this year to work through those situations.

Also, I don't think pulling him had anything to do with trying to protect his ERA. I would think a team would be more interested in trading for a player that could actually pitch 6 or 7 innings without getting shelled. If anything, I think pulling him is hurting his trade value.

Lidle's been awful, he's the one that nixed the 4 man rotation, and he's the one yelling at his manager on the field. Yet somehow he's a team guy?? If this was Escobar doing this instead I can only imagine what the reaction would be.
Game 98: Second Half Turnaround For Lidle? | 47 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.