\"I tried to throw through it thinking it would go away, that things would get better. But it hasn't gotten better and I'm starting to bury myself and the team a little bit."\

A **little bit**? Boy, that's an understatement. Over the last few weeks Politte has helped the Jays lose some very winable games. I realise he hasn't had much job security in his major league career and is probably concerned about being labeled soft, but he should have known that being labeled a junkballer isn't a preferable alternative.

I have no sympathy for Politte trying to tough this one out. Unlike other sports where you can be effective while fighting an injury, the nature of baseball - especially pitching - makes this difficult. The difference between the 95 mph heat (with movement) that he threw last year and the cheese he's been serving up lately has meant at least 2 games in the standings.

I can't believe it's taken him this long to realize that he might be hurting the team. He may not have wanted to admit the injury because of worries about job security, but I think not doing so may have cost him respect not only with fans, but also with teammates. Everyone wants to win, and to realize that someone has been hurting that effort has to be frustrating.

I wouldn't be to hard on Pollitte for being less than honest about his injury as I would be on Tosca and JP for not getting to the bottom of it sooner.

Remember the (ouch) Star story earlier. Tosca loyal to closer. It came out last week I think and as well more or less the same story appeared in the Sun.

It has been apparent to even all of our kids grandmothers that there was something missing from Pollittes game for the past two months. If "your" man doesn't have it, it is encumbent on you to do the due dilligence. On that front Tosca failed his team. Thats where I'm looking for an answer. To publicly state confidence in a man with a broken wing and keep handing him the ball is a complete failure and he should be embarrassed and be made to explain. If he were really loyal and thinking, he would have taken the ball from "his closer" and used his superiour communications skills to convince Pollitte to shut it down a while to get his shoulder right and his MPH back and not allow him to let the team down or for that matter his career.

With respect to who takes the ball now. I think you need to hand it to Service in the first instance. He is pretty hot right now with a ratio under .600 and 7 K's in less than six innings. He has yet to give up a run. He's hot, hand him the ball if the situation arises over the next few days.

Then pass the ball to Acevedo. He's done the job before and may do a reasonable job for a while. I fully appreaciate the fact he is no lights out closer. This is evidence by his season so far with the Yanks. As well his mixed results with the Tigers last year in either home or away situations.

With respect to each of them, neither is a solution. There is nothing in Services career stats to think that he can sustain any level of sucess. I expect he will turn his 0 ERA into a lofty 5 before the onth of July is out. But there's perhaps a few safe innings before the explosion. Acevedo, much the same thing. JP has stated that he believes Acevedo should be given the chance. Given the teams current situation I have to agree.

A couple weeks ago I too was one singing the praises of Aquillino. Lately though he has been very ordinary. Might just be an aberation but combined with his very limited major league experience and perhaps maybe he is hurting a wee bit too then I think that might be an unnecessary risk to the Jays results in their playoff chase. As well if Aqillino can't rise to the pressure packed closers role then this could be a mental setback for the young man. A pitcher who could next year step into a more significant role. I just hope his arm isn't starting to fall off.

Nope give it two Service and Acevedo. These guys are not in any future plan and thus can be easily jettisoned if / when they fail.

Lefty, Acevedo is unavailable for at least the next few days; he is attending his grandmother's funeral. I was mildly surprised that Tosca mentioned Sturtze ahead of Service, but it's clear that they will try Lopez first. Miller's probably going to get a few saves when the last out or two are lefty batters. Once Acevedo returns, he's almost certain to be given a chance to close. I don't like the term "committee," and the Jays are avoiding it, but even when (if?) Politte recovers completely and gets the heat back, there may not be clearly defined roles.

I disagree with your criticism of the manager for trusting his player's word and being loyal. Knee-jerk changing of closers hasn't worked very well for Jerry Manuel, who seems to ruin a good one every year. Mind-reader isn't part of Tosca's job description; the blame rests with Politte for witholding the truth about the extent of the pain he's been enduring.

It's amazing to me that pitchers in this day and age will try to pitch through pain, especially shoulder pain. I'm absolutely positive that every major-league pitcher has a buddy whose career ended because of a torn labrum or other serious shoulder injury. Your career is going to be much shorter and significantly more frustrating spending the last three years of it in rehab, only to discover that you are now ineffective at best (Blue Jay exhibits: Joey Hamilton, Chris Carpenter, Mike Sirotka).

This is likely Kershner's last stand. He was added to the 40-man and would likely be the first one off again should any moves necessitate a roster spot. He's a lefty and his AAA numbers are pretty solid so he might not pass through waivers again.

Just Noticed: Commissioner Gordon from the Batman show (campy 60s version) looks like Peter Gammons. The difference, of course, is that there are more annoying sound effects during Sportscentre than there are during Batman.

Coach,

I agree with your last point, but it still puzzles me that the players are so reluctant to admit to injury. I assume that management is against the culture of machismo, but what are they doing about it?

IIRC, Justin Miller should be on the list of guys who hid injuries, if not the ones who hurt the team by so doing. And what about Luke Prokopec last year?

Lefty, Service has given up two runs since joining the Jays. Did you mean he has yet to give up a walk?

John

I'd think the job would be Acevedo's by default, at least initially.

Despite the good numbers he has so far as a Jay, it's hard to make much from Service's 5 innings of work. He wasn't working wonders in Arizona, and his past performance is not suggestive of being an effective closer. I'd likely go with him over Sturtze, though, if only because Service allows fewer balls in play. Hopefully, Juan is back soon enough to make this a moot point.

I'm curious why Service was let go. From his stats, he WAS working wonders in Arizona--his ERA being his only below average stat. All his peripherals are great so I'm led to believe his high ERA is the aberration.

IP Hits ER HR BB SO WHIP ERA
23.2 24 12 1 2 25 1.16 4.66

I'm sure it was Service's peripherals that caught the attention of Blue Jay management.

From what I've read in various interviews, the main problem with pitching is that you just don't feel right most of the time. Certainly there is a difference between usual aches and pains (and maybe slightly more than normal pain) and real-injury pain, but you don't get to this level without having a high tolerance for pain.

While I'm not pleased that Politte's problem went undiagnosed for this long (Major League players and staff should be more perceptive), pitching through pain is an everyday thing for most of the rotation and bullpen. Once you've been able to pitch through one bit of pain, you're of the mindset that you can do it for anything.

The only thing I can hope is that the players in question (and the Blue Jays in general) will tend towards "once bitten, twice shy" -- it doesn't hurt to go to a doctor if things aren't feeling right.

Yup Acevado is away for the week perhaps, went without saying. And yes Service did give up a couple about ten days ago, rechecked the facts.

At any rate I stand my position that Tosca should have acted Coach. Thats the beauty of the BB everyone is entitled to an opinion.

As you said it is not necessarily in a managers job description to be a mind reader but it certainly helps. It really helps if your thinking and can be decisive. It is however for a manager to make a decision based on the facts and irrefutable evidence. As you have taken pains to point out before, Pollitte has been labouring. It has been evident for well over a month paritcularly. What does one suppose from this evidence? Carlos just kept on giving him the ball while all of us wondered what was going on in his mind. He obviously wasn't mind reading he might have been day dreaming though.

Look I'm not calling for the guys head or anything because of blind loyalty. The facts also support that the Jays are a very good team and perhaps it might be even because of his influence on his troops. If so he deserves credit for that and has mine conditionally.

However, he has made dozens of bonehead decisions this year, most of them stratigic in nature. Its kinda like having your comfortable favorite uncle managing your team. It feels nice for a while then the heart gets in the way of the head and boom its all gone.

I agree with you about knee jerk reactions with your closer but the Koch example is a bit of a stretch. Koch has a history of driving fans and managers alike crazy. He certainly was next to terrible in his last season with the Jays, so bad he was shown out of town for an improbable Escobar to take on the mantle of closer. In Oakland he had huge apparent success. He pitched alot for a team that could gut out close games. He had 11 wins I think to go along with all of his saves. A good portion of those wins came from a team which could come back from a B SV.

In Chicago what did Billy do to help himself? In my opinion he forced the managers hand. Manuel has Marte down in the pen and he's not to shabby at making sure his team retains their slim leads. To me thats managing. If Koch wants the job then do the job. He can not blame his manager who wants to win more than one single guy who's fragile ego is in question.

Carlos needs to start managing or he will loose his players and his GM's confidence. This team has a ton of natural talent. He needs to do his bit to or else thats just going for a ride on the players shoulders. Cito was a loyal guy too but he came in for a ton a critisism. Some of it fair some not. I think its hard to say for us. I am certainly speculating, I never managed a hundred years in the minors but what I believe is this. You don't blame the workers when you had the opportuinty to do something yourself and it is clear Carlos let him pitch way to long when it was very clear to anyone that there was a problem.

Cristian - Service was only on the Arizona roster because of injuries. Once Mike Koplove came off the DL, that was pretty much it for him.

I'd like to think he's made some dramatic strides in the last couple of years, but those back-to-back 6+ ERA seasons worry me. Even with some impressive numbers in Arizona, his RSAA was 0 when he was released. If he keeps up that K/BB ratio, he'll win people over quickly.

Craig S, I think your spot on with respect to Service's career. There's absolutely nothing in his history that gives me any confidence except this.

Both his Arizona stats combined with his minors stats show that Service is having an outstanding year though. This is probably a huge abberation given the players ripe old age.

I am hoping that JP's gamble is correct and in fact I think he did make a good move, however no matter how much success he has I wouldn't be signing him to any deals. If we get to ride a little wave for the rest of the season kudos to him and JP. If not so what.

This just in, nice to see old Patty still leading a productive life.

Bet he signs on somewhere (Seattle) as coach whenever he retires.
Nice story

Pat Borders - C - Seattle Mariners Jun 30

Pat Borders, 40, has been selected as the starting catcher for the Pacific Coast League in the Triple-A All-Star game.
Borders is hitting .339 for Triple-A Tacoma. He'll be behind the plate when Rich Harden takes the mound to start the game. Source: Seattle Post-Intelligencer

FWIW, the update from Will Carroll on Politte in UTK today at BP.

The loss of Cliff Politte would bother most teams more than it seems to bother the Blue Jays, as they appear ready to adjust and make do with a bullpen of found parts. Politte will miss significant time with a strained rotator cuff, an injury that explains his ineffectiveness and lousy numbers of late, especially his sudden bout of gopheritis. Hard-throwing short guys always worry me--there’s no reason they can’t throw hard, but their mechanics have to be even better to generate that force. When those fail, nothing good comes of it.

I wonder if Randy Knorr is also having a great season somewhere or other ;)

Lefty said " in BB everyone is entitled to an opinion " I'm taking for granted that includes me. Wow.
For half season results, this team was only five games below his best record. And in the opinion of many in this blog there were 5 games, at least, they could have end up winning!
Beside the obvious lack of pitching, there is also the lack of experience from the coaching corps to do all the rigth things to win a game, even if it is to steal a base...
If a pitcher that is a closer because he is the only in the pen with 96 plus heat ( JP's words ) and it is only throwing 89, who is there to detect it and make adjustments, the fans? If you are paid in the seven digits you are not suposed to be a macho or stupid, but neither blind or not attentive enough. Good managers are very good at juggling with their resources and getting the best results with very subtle and perceptive decisions that fans do not get at all. And here we are second guessing Carlos and pitching coaches way to often.

Rudy Seanez was dropped by the Red Sox, anyone for just another rethread.
Too bad we only get two games with the Tigers this time.
I think that Cliff's blowdown is a heavy blow to the pen. There are many adjustments needed and not much to play with. For instance, no more Lopez as starter daydream.

John N: I assume that management is against the culture of machismo, but what are they doing about it?

I don't necessarily disagree with this statement, John, but I do wonder just how well such a management position can compete with the innate machismo of a locker room. I can imagine, if not necessarily defend, a scenario whereby Politte felt he was better serving his team (and teammates) by sucking it up. I've never been inside an MLB locker room, but I fear that it would look and sound a lot more like an NFL locker room than I'd care to imagine, with all the accompanying alpha-male grunting.

Homer: I think that Cliff's blowdown is a heavy blow to the pen.

Certainly were Politte pitching as he did in 2002, this would be true. But I think that Politte v2003 being DL'd is a good thing (aside from the obvious benefit of an injury being diagnosed and soon to be treated).

Were Politte healthy, and his pitching record a function of mechanics, say, Tosca would have continued to feel compelled to utilize Politte in high leverage situations, results be damned. Tosca would have ultimately had to weigh the good of the team versus continued loyalty to Politte.

That Politte is hurt and DL'd allows both Tosca and Politte to save face, and allows the team to not be at the mercy of a highly ineffective closer.

I took my son to a game on Saturday that featured Borders (Tacoma)v.s. Knorr (Edmonton). It was Ron Kittle night but I didn't get a bobblehead doll (1000 given away via scratch tickets). This was probably the 4th game I've taken my son to over the last 3 years and he's always been more interested in eating then the game.

Knorr went 5/5 while Borders popped a game-tying homer late in the game. The Borders shot was funny; there was a group of guys up in the LF bleachers taunting him all game with chants of BOR-DERS, BOR-DERS. I leaned over to my son and said: "They're gonna piss him off and he'll jack one" BOOM! Kreskin! As he's jogging into home he turns up to the guys in the bleachers and gives them a salute. Everybody in the park had a good laugh at that one.

The game featured a great ending:
Bottom of the 9th
Visitors ahead 9-8
2-outs
Bases juiced
3-2 count on the light hitting shortstop

Grand Slam!
12-9 for the Trappers.
The crowd went wild and my son had his first experience with baseball drama. He was dancing around and screaming and it was great. I think he's finally starting to appreciate this game!

P.S. TERMMELL SLEDGE looked pretty good. So did Bergeron and Knorr (although Randy walks to the dugout like he's 70 years old)
P.P.S It looks like they changed the score the next day. Evidently it hit the top of the wall and was scored a double. 10-9 trappers.

I agree with the earlier poster who said that pain is a normal part of a pitcher's life. It's hard to tell the difference between normal post-game pain and injury pain, especially considering that pitching is basically arm self-injury, anyway. (I seem to recall reading that Bob Gibson used to scream with pain if anyone even touched his arm right after he pitched.)

Clubhouse machismo probably plays a factor as well.

I'm worried about rotator cuff problems - shoulder injuries are often very difficult to recover from. Politte may have thrown his last effective inning for the Jays.

This team reminds me of the 1983 Jays: a great offense, some good starting pitching, and no discernible bullpen. Anybody know what Tippy Martinez is up to these days? :-)

Chuck,

I didn't mean to imply that management isn't doing anything about the culture of machismo. I don't know what they're doing about it. I assume that they're doing something, or at least that they want it to change. And I don't doubt that it's hard to change. I guess I'm just frustrated because whatever they're doing doesn't seem to be working all that well.

John

I didn't mean to imply that management isn't doing anything about the culture of machismo.

John, the misunderstanding is my fault. I understood what you were saying even if my poorly worded retort suggested otherwise.

Even if management were aggressively attempting to counter the culture of machismo, I'm not sure how effective that would be. As someone above mentioned, players don't want to earn a reputation as being soft, either with potential future employers or with their teammates.

And I'm not sure that management wants to hear about every bruise and nick. I'm sure there's a gray area of normal pain that players are expected to experience and play through. I guess trouble arises when the players conduct self-diagnoses and decide that their current pain falls into that gray area.

Well, I see we all agreed that Cliff blowdown started a month ago and was officially released to the media a couple of days ago...