A sweet play by Bordick, a nasty 0-2 splitter and a harmless pop to first on a gorgeous curve; 12 very good pitches by Super Kelvim to cruise through the first.

Ohka was just as efficient, though Wells nailed an atom ball to left. Vernon may have injured his left elbow on a checked swing foul ball, but he's still in there. Sounds like a large and lively crowd again.

Not a great inning for Delgado defensively; Vidro doubled under his glove, then after Wilkerson singled, Carlos got faked out by Escobar's pump to third on a comebacker, and didn't have his foot on the bag for a routine 1-3 putout. Calloway blooped one to shallow left, Mike "Buck Fifty" Barrett singled up the middle, and it's 2-0 Expos with the bases loaded and none out.

I am invincible!

The invincible one has a no-hitter through five. I hope that's a sufficient jinx to wake up the Jays' bats. Kelvim got out of his second-inning mess by helping himself with a 1-2-3 double play, and has looked good since then, though he's over 100 pitches after six.

I'd mention that Ohka has a no-hitter going right now but I don't want to jinx him.

I am anything but.

A fella could second-guess the decision to let Escobar start the eighth after 114 pitches (it's not as if he dominates Vidro) but the way the bullpen performed, it hardly mattered. I'm worried about Miller, who wasn't following through on a lot of pitches. Lopez wasn't sharp, and Tam looked like a mopup guy. Credit where it's due -- Ohka was terrific. At least it wasn't a cheap hit that broke up the no-no.

Does an error break up a perfect game?

Donkit, I'm pretty sure it does. My understanding of a perfect game is 27 up, 27 down. If someone reaches on an error but gets double up it still counts against the game being perfect and you're stuck with an impressive no-hitter.

Disappointing game today, especially the inability of the offense to reach Ohka. I hope this recent spell - splitting against the O's and losing 2 of 3 to the Expos - isn't a sign of things to come. If so, the Sox and Yanks will soon far ahead.

Free Josh Phelps

Where's Jayson Stark's wealth of useless info when you need it? I wonder if there's ever been an "impressive no-hitter" with no hits, no walks and an error(s).

Coach:
Escobar had a split finger nail in the fifth inning during his last game( go back to Tosca's press conference that nigth: pedicure , manicure whatever it takes joke about both Kelvim and Cliff ), it is not all in his head.
It is important to keep him around the 90 pitches per game ( and sometimes he has been very efficient to finish games with just 100 pitches or less ) he just get to much of the plate in late innings...
It is not second guessing, there is evidence. He is a quality starter with the need of another hand to finish it off. Not perfect.

After the game, the Blue Jays placed closer Cliff Politte on the 15-day disabled list with a strained right shoulder. Right-hander Juan Acevedo has also been temporarily removed from the 25-man roster for bereavement leave to attend the funeral of his grandmother in Chicago. The Blue Jays have recalled right-hander Mike Smith and left-hander Jason Kershner from Triple-A Syracuse. ...

As Coach spectulated a week or two ago, perhaps Politte's struggles were due to an arm injury.

So with no Pollite, and even no Acevedo will Aquilino close? Or closer by commitee since it's only temporary?

37000+ today and another loss. What is it about big crowds that cause the Jays to fall apart?

They get intimidated in front of larger crowds because of the larger number of non-whites in the crowd who obviously only support the black and latino players.

In other news, Geoff Baker has just been appointed the Order of Canada for his tireless and groundbreaking investigation of the racial makeup of the newly renamed Toronto White Jays.

"White Jays", I love it!

The Politte I remember last year threw 95-96 mph gas. This year he could barely touch 91-92 with any consistency...not surprised by the shoulder injury.

So what do you guys think. Who's it going to be. Will Service get the first chance at the SV's.

A combination of Service and Lopez, sure. They're the best of a bad lot. None of Tam, Miller, Kershner, Smith or Sturtze deserve to be given the ball that late in a close game.

I'd be surprised if anyone besides Lopez got a save oppurtunity, unless it's a situation where's he's pitched 3 games in a row.

Free Corey Thurman!

Seriously, is there any reason at all to believe that Davis and/or Hendrickson would be a more effective starter than Thurman for the rest of the year?

Davis: .331 $H, .106 $BB, .089 $K, .025 $HR
Hendrickson: .356 $H, .056 $BB, .101 $K, .029 $HR
Thurman (AAA): .329 $H, .083 $BB, .211 $K, .013 $HR

Thurman in AAA has struck out more than twice as many batters as Hendrickson or Davis while giving up half as many home runs. His walk rate is midway between Hendrickson's (low) and Davis's (high). Obviously, you'd expect Thurman's rates to worsen in the majors, but by that much?

I understand that Smith and Kershner were called up to pitch mop-up, not to start, but you'd think that the Jays might use these injuries as an opportunity to get Thurman up and bump one of the lefties into the pen.

Furthermore, Smith hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire over the past month: 22.2 IP, 29 H, 15 BB, 18 K. Looks a fair bit like Brian Bowles' season line (27.2 IP, 20 H, 15 BB, 21 K) to me, and I am just about the only person on this board who thinks that Bowles has any chance to be an adequate reliever.

In a completely unrelated note, the seemingly invincible James Vermilyea was knocked around last night to the tune of 2 IP, 7 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 0 BB, 1 K. It's a rough day for Jays fans...

John, I'm with you. There's no reason to hold Thurman in AAA when the bottom of your rotation means Davis and Hendrickson.

Sorry to disagree with you on the Thurman option guys. Gideons Chiefs Lynx report stuck in my head. You can read it out of the archives, 06/06/03.

After I read that upon its original posting I thought that Thurman would be an excellent relief option at the time. The Jays at that point had not yet picked up Acevedo or Service.

What I took from the report is that Thurman inspite of having nasty stuff early could not go deep into the game. He lasted about 5 innings and was gone after starting to get knocked around pretty badly.

I just checked out Thurmans numbers on the year and as well his latest two boxscores. In 11 starts he has pitched 52 inninings or less than 5 per start. So I checked his last two starts to see if his IP were was moving up but no they really aren't. He has pitched 6 and 5 innings respectively. They were more or less quality starts but not outstanding.

I suspect the Jays are trying to resolve just what Gideon points out in the report. Thurman should be developing a third pitch. If he hasn't got a decent changeup or slider to compliment his fastball and curve he'll be dead meat and we will be calling for the revival of Sturtze ...... wait a minute many are.

I still believe Thurman would be a great relief option but obviously the Jays are babying Thurman along until they feel he will be a decent major league starter. I won't fault them for that.

Regarding Davis/Lurch. Either of them don't entirely freak me out. The Jays faced a terific Ohka yesterday. If Doc or Lidle had been starting the game result probably would have been the same.

I still see enough in either of them to be an adequate fifth starter. Over the past four starts for each they have shown enough to have at least a hope. But which of the two is it?

If the Jays are going to solve their SP problems they will have to look outside. And I think they have to set their sights on a classic 2-3 starter, anything less will turn out to resemble Lurch/Davis.

lefty,

Doug Davis: 5.0 IP/GS (49.2 IP, 10 GS)
Mark Hendrickson: 5.1 IP/GS (82 IP, 16 GS)
Corey Thurman (AAA): 4.7 IP/GS (52.1 IP, 11 GS)

That's a difference of one out per game. The more significant difference is that Davis and Hendrickson have given us good evidence (if not conclusive proof) that they can't pitch effectively in the major leagues right now. The jury is still out on Thurman in that regard.

I read Jordan's report too. I know that it was not very positive, and I accept that Jordan knows a hell of a lot more about the Jays' minor leaguers than either of us does. However, one game is still just one game. Thurman has picked it up a bit over the last month (4 GS, 22.1 IP, 25 H, 5 BB, 22 K); moreover, he at least has some good stuff to work with. Plus he has a good nickname, "Thermal."

Davis' apparent mediocrity is a mirage. He allowed 12 baserunners in 4-plus innings on Saturday and somehow stranded all but three of them. He's well overdue to give up nine or ten runs in a start.

I think this matter really comes down to what the Jays are trying to do this year. If they want to make a run for it, they should call up Thurman right now and see if he can hold his own (unless they're about to trade for two good starters). If they're still planning for the long term, then I can understand keeping Thurman in AAA to work on another pitch. Either way, I think he could outpitch Davis and Hendrickson in Toronto right now.

John

John,
I'm certainly not going to stand here and say that either Hendrickson and particurlary Davis are a much better option than Thurman. My worry is that Thurman won't be any better than those two though. If Thurman can't give the Chiefs 7 innings and a quality sart then he could get eaten alive in the bigs. Certainly the analyses provided by Gideon is just one game. Completely agree with you. But cruising back through the Chiefs bx scores it at least looks to me that he is still pretty much the same pitcher as he was on 6/6/03.
Please don't get me wrong, I am in complete agreement that Thurman is the most big league ready of the Jays minor leaguers. But there doesn't seem to be much difference between Thurman and the mentioned and even perhaps Josh Towers.

That said I really hope if and when he is called up he can do a decent job.

Lefty,

Well, I think this is one of those typical BB cases in which we concur on the important stuff and are arguing the undecidables. I agree that Thurman might be no better than Davis or Hendrickson; you agree that he might be better. I'll acknowledge that an immediate promotion might screw him up; you'd probably admit that it might not. I'd argue that an extra couple of games might make the difference in a pennant race (although if we can't even beat the Tigers...), but you'd be correct in saying that most likely it won't. Where we differ is on the margins.

Anyway, there's so much uncertainty and so many parameters to estimate that I don't expect to be able to convince you any more than I expect you to be able to convince me. Both of our assessments are, I would imagine, quite reasonable, and there's not going to be any striking evidence one way or the other.

And I know how difficult it is to argue that a prospect isn't as good as others think without sounding like you've got a grudge against him or you hope he'll fail. I've been through the same thing with Russ Adams.

It's been nice arguing with you ;)

John

6.2 IP, 9 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 2 BB, 4 K, 1 HR last night ain't helpin' my cause much...

Actually I do think he's a good prospect, but he needs the chance to develope another pitch or two to compliment his fastball and breaking curve. He's young enough, got a year in the bigs already. Looked to me last season that he's got a certain level of composure. I just think he's perhaps peaked a bit and the last mile is the hardest. I think he'll be able to make that march in spite of his performance the other night. In fact that performance may do more for him than another evening of middling results.

What I think the Jays have to determine and I hope they can, is whether Thurman can take the last step in being an MLB SP. Or will he be better suited to relief. He just might make a super strong middle innings man. Just about very good team has one. Right now that role has been filled by Aquillino but is he the best suited player for that role? I'm not sure.

Take a look at the Angels bullpen last season, Donnelly and K-Rod, in Seattle it was Hasagawa, Bradford in Oakland. For years it was Mendoza in NY. Great middle relief is a huge factor in winning seasons. Perhaps once all the dead wood in the bullpen here is cleared out Thurman might become a very valuable player.

But John, I really am "just supposing".
All the best
Lefty

Lidle is starting to pitch like Thurman...quality through five then boom, he gets beat up.

lefty,

When I said "I agree that Thurman might be no better than Davis or Hendrickson," I left out the "at this point in time." Or, rather "at this point." As my mother never ceases to remind me, "this point in time" is superfluously redundant.

In either case, I wasn't trying to cast aspersions on Thurman's prospecthood ;)

John