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You have to use your bench players sometime, so tonight Carlos Tosca is going to get Dave Berg (RF, batting second), Tom Wilson (C, sixth) and Mike Bordick (3B, ninth) some AB against Boston lefty Casey Fossum. There will be no second-guessing from me; Hinske can use a night off to get his mind right, Cat's back is worth taking precautions with, and Myers has made two consecutive very good starts.

Ken Huckaby will get one of his final starts as Doc's personal security blanket tomorrow, unfortunately relegating Myers to the bench again, and there's another southpaw (Rogers again) slated for Saturday, so we'll soon know whether this is a strict platoon or mere lineup juggling; my guess is Hinske plays Saturday but Hudson or Woodward sits. The A-team won't be on the field together again until Sunday.

I hear there's another sporting event on TV tonight, and I might even watch it, but I'll also be listening to Tom, Jerry and Mike on 610 AM.
Game 8: Platoon? | 32 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_King Rat - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#91032) #
Does anyone know if its at all possible to get cktb over the internet? Someone mentioned it in a previous thread, but I can't seem to connect to it.
_M.P. Moffatt - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 07:48 PM EDT (#91033) #
http://economics.about.com
Wow.. 5 strikeouts for Fossum in 3 innings. Is anybody watching the game? If so, does Casey look as dominating as that stat suggests?

MP
_Sean - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#91034) #
King Rat if you have realone player this'll work:
http://www.610cktb.com/cktb.ram
Coach - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#91035) #
I didn't say much about the pitching tonight, because I expect Tanyon Sturtze to be a win-one, lose one kind of guy, and he'll generally need a few runs to win. He also needs help from his middle infield defence, but Woody made another error that led to an unearned run in the fourth, and O-Dawg failed to turn yet another double play (sounds like Millar broke it up aggressively) with a poor throw. So it was 3-0 for the visitors, on a Manny Ramirez homer, until Berg took Fossum deep with a solo shot. Mike Wilner said, "if you're going to play right field, you should hit like a right fielder." Hudson later excited the crowd, and Tom Cheek, with one of his creative tags, getting Todd Walker on a steal attempt by catching the Wilson throw and diving at the runner.

Fossum had been dominant, with 7 K's through 4.2 IP, but then a 2-out walk to Woodward and a Bordick double made it 3-2, and Casey followed that with two more free passes to Stewart and Berg, with a wild pitch mixed in, and suddenly his night was over. Ramiro Mendoza, facing Vernon Wells with the bases loaded, just gave up the grand salami that put Fossum on the hook, and the commitee is in further disarray.

Creative ways to lose: the Tigers are the first team since the expansion 1962-63 Mets to go 0-7 in two consecutive seasons. Today they matched their entire previous season's output with six runs, but the game ended when runner Bobby Higginson was hit by a ball Carlos Pena pulled into the hole. The Royals remain unbeaten.

Other stuff: Mark Prior got the first of many career shutouts with a 12-K gem against the Expos. The super-soph scattered four hits and didn't allow a walk.
Coach - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#91036) #
First career slam for Vernon, capping a 5-run, 2-out rally built around three walks and a blast, and featuring two key at-bats by the super-subs. Not bad. Sturtze is now looking good to go 2-0, after his 4-18 debacle of '02. They've announced the attendance at 13,099, but I stongly doubt there are that many people in Toronto not watching the Leafs.
_R Billie - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#91037) #
Well so much for Fossum's quality start! It all began so well for him...tsk tsk. And eventhough my former pitcher stands to profit, somehow I don't care. The Jays have dangerous patience. :)
_Cristian - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 08:46 PM EDT (#91038) #
Great fifth inning for the Jays.

Fossum starts the inning having mowed down the Jays and having only thrown 54 pitches. He quickly strikes out Wilson and Hudson and it looks like another quick inning. Then the Jays cue JP ball. Wooward comes back from an 0-2 count to draw a 10 pitch walk. After a Bordick double, Stewart draws an 8 pitch walk. Berg walks. At this point Fossum has tossed 36 pitches in the inning and gets the hook. After rigorous statistical analysis, out of the Committee bullpen emerges Ramiro Mendoza to face Vernon with the sacks full...well I'm sure you all know by now what Vernon did.

Beautiful

Where is everyone? Is there some other sporting event distracting Torontonians?
Coach - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#91039) #
Another night, another 7 runs... so far. Remember when Woodward was 0-15? He's now hitting over .300, on a 4-game hit streak, and just drew yet another walk. Bring on Brandon Lyon!
_Chuck Van Den C - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#91040) #
Mark Prior got the first of many career shutouts with a 12-K gem against the Expos. The super-soph scattered four hits and didn't allow a walk.

Take two very good pitchers and sprinkle in a (presumably) generous strike zone and what do you get? A combined 27 K and 1 BB.
Coach - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#91041) #
OK, even I'm going back to hockey now, but kudos to Mike Bordick for his two doubles, 3 RBI and initiating an excellent 5-4-3 double play (in the first start of his long career at 3B) to help Tanyon escape a leadoff single with a 5-pitch 7th inning.
_Chuck Van Den C - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#91042) #
Anyone noticed that the Jays haven't stolen a base yet this year? I'm certainly not concerned, I just find it odd that Stewart, Wells, and Hinske are a combined zero for zero.

In fact, of the 3 CS's, 2 are by the not-so-fleet-footed Josh Phelps. Does anyone remember the occasions that had Phelps running? I know Tosca doesn't hit & run much.
_Cristian - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#91043) #
List of people whose whereabouts I would like to know

2. Saddam Hussein
1. Aquilino Lopez

!!Free Aquilino!!
_Sean - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#91044) #
My fantasy teams are thrilled that Sturtze is better than average for the moment. I too am struck by the complete lack of a running game so far, but it's still very early in the season. I think it's due to the fact that the Jays haven't played many close games yet.
_M.P. Moffatt - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:17 PM EDT (#91045) #
http://economics.about.com
I think it's more due to the fact Hinske can't steal first base... and stealing third base after a double isn't a great idea either.

I came on to write about Aquilino, but it looks like someone beat me to it. I guess I'll just have to have another Keith's. I'll refrain from sending pictures this time, tho.

MP
_R Billie - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#91046) #
Phelps was picked off once and he had strayed far enough for it to be called a caught stealing. The second time he charged for home after a runner from first took off for second. The throw came home and Phelps was out with his second caught stealing.
_R Billie - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#91047) #
Two quality starts and (likely) wins from the back of the rotation against the Red Sox. Who would have thought?

Aquilino Lopez finally makes his big league debut striking out Garciaparra swinging to end the top of the 8th.
Craig B - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:32 PM EDT (#91048) #
Am I insane, or did Aquilino play in game 2 of the Yankees series?

Anyway, nice to see him back out there.

I'm heading over to Sox Therapy to (mildly and lightheartedly) taunt some Red Sox fans. And maybe, just maybe, the friggin' troll on alt.sports.baseball.tor-bluejays will be shut up about the damn Leafs since they're winning.
_Chuck Van Den C - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#91049) #
Does Tosca not like to bail out his platoonees mid-game?

He let Wilson face Lyon and Berg face Fox. Even with the nice lead, why wouldn't he go to Myers and Catalanotto? Perhaps in the latter's case, he didn't want to mess with his day off. Still, the bases were loaded...
Mike D - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#91050) #
Brandon Lyon pitched a scoreless inning. THEO EPSTEIN IS A GENIUS!!!
_rodent - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#91051) #
Ya gotta love five Jays pitchers giving up only two walks.
_the shadow - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#91052) #
If J.Miller is brought up this weekend, who in the BP will get the long ride to Syracuse, Tam or Linton,
Coach - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#91053) #
At first I was a bit ticked that Aquilino got to face just one hitter, especially since he struck out Nomar and I was eager to see how he'd do against Manny, but Tosca was thinking ahead. Jeff Tam thrives on steady work, almost overwork -- it makes the sinker sink better -- so even though he was ineffective, he'll be just tired enough to do well if he's needed tomorrow or (more likely) Saturday.

Chuck, leaving those platoon guys in against the percentages is typical of Carlos -- he's trying to send his players a message that he has confidence in them no matter what the situation. I'm sure they appreciate it, too, even if we don't agree.

The radio guys are reporting that Pete Walker will get the start on Saturday. Justin Miller can get two more rehab starts this way, as they can skip the #5 spot with an off day next week. Makes sense, and gives Doug Linton a 10-day reprieve.

So is everybody OK with winning two of the first three series?
_Sean - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#91054) #
No complaints except that I can't get any radio from out on the West Coast without giving MLB some cash I don't have, and Rogers hasn't put enough games on the tube.
_Cristian - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#91055) #
On the radio, JP apparently told the radio announcers that Justin Miller isn't quite ready yet and will make one more start in Florida. Pete Walker will start on Saturday.
_Shane - Wednesday, April 09 2003 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#91056) #
Walker to start Saturday is excellent. Miller hasn't thrown a whole lot this spring and until he shows he's pitching well, why the hell bring him up when you've got two capable veterans in the pen -- I never got that to begin with. Especially because...

...Considering how long Tam and Linton have been kicking aroung the Majors, do they even have any options left, we know Walker doesn't? Obviously J.P. et al know what they're doing, but if something numb happened where they lost Linton on waivers just to have Justin Miller come up and flop, what was the sense in signing him in the first place. But, maybe one of 'em has an option left, and I can shut up. Chris Kahrl commented that Tam and Creek might not even make it through the season without being dropped, and Tam seems to have put that plan in overdrive: zero K's/3 hits allowed/2 runs against/and 5 BB's in 4 innings. I don't know who throws harder Tam, Hendrickson, or Coach? It's looking good for Coach at this point.

It been a sweet a$$ eight games so far this season. Very Very nice indeed.

Someone less lazy than myself should e-mail Spencer Fordin and ask him to find out who in that bullpen has options left.
robertdudek - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 12:03 AM EDT (#91057) #
Well, my first live game of the year and it was a beauty. Vantage point - approx. 25th row behind home plate.

Notes:

Hudson misplayed a 1st inning grounder (it looked like a weird turf hop) - it was ruled a hit but should have been an error. He threw a sure DP away and was saved by Delgado on another poor throw (Bordick made a great pick to start it). Johnny Damon blistered the ball at Woodward on a hop and the return throw beat Damon by half a step for the DP (Damon is really fast). Hudson made a circus tag on Walker off a very poor throw by Wilson (tailing into the runner, about 4 and a half feet to the first base side of the bag.

Carlos Delgado snared a line shot near the 1B line, robbing little G of a Double down the line. Orlando Hudson was safe on an error on a bang bang play. Miller, the first baseman, lunged toward the hole and corralled a soft sinking liner. Hudson and Chad Fox arrived at the same time, but the pitcher was not able to handle the energetic throw by Millar.

During Vernon Wells' last AB, the crowd suddenly erupted at the Leafs polished off the Flyers. Wells looked at the umpire, asked for time and stepped out of the box. He was later called out on a dubious full count check swing (the ump wanted to move things along no doubt)

Fossum was almost unhittable for the first 4 innings. He painted the inside corner with his slider consistently. Constantly behind on the count, the Jays batters hunkered down to protect the plate - the result being foul offs and swinging strikeouts. Fossum mixed in a slow curveball and what looked like a straight change infrequently. The Jays almost never swung at those pitches but many of them were called strikes. The rest of the time he used the fastball, usually towards the outside corner of the plate or middle of the plate letter high.

The Jays made a noticeable adjustment the 2nd time through the order: most of them backed off the plate about 2 inches so they could get better wood on the slider on the hands, sacrificing a bit of plate coverage on the outside corner.

In the 5th, Fossum started to lose his command - it looks like his current "wall" is about 90 pitches. The slider wasn't quite as crisp. The Woodward and Stewart PAs in the 5th, IMO the key PAs in the game, were struggles, where both Woody and Stu fought off several sliders before Fossum missed. I think he was done and Little made the right decision to take him out.

Unfortunately for them, Mendoza had nothing today. Brandon Lyon is probably their best relief pitcher at this point. He's definitely throwing harder than last year and still relies on his fastball. He didn't show much of an off-speed pitch, however, so if he doesn't hit his spots he'll get hit hard.

Although Wells' and Manny's homeruns were prodigious, the hardest hit ball of the night was off the bat of Kevin Millar in the 2nd inning - a line drive right at Vernon.

Aquilino devoured Nomar - he made him look like a high-schooler. Unfortunately for me, Lopez didn't come out to pitch the 9th and the game ended 15 minutes later than it should have.
_benum - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 03:56 AM EDT (#91058) #
I'm jealous...all you no good @#$%^ in the Toronto area...
(I went to the game, here's some pictures from the game, etc.)

I'm in the Edmonton area and we have the AAA team for the Expos!!! (also known as 'the team who traded all their best prospects last year for Colon'). Last year was great though, PCL Champs (The Twins are LOADED with prospects I tell ya)

Just for fun (?) I'll share a horrible secret with y'all:

I was never a baseball fan as a younger man as I was never exposed to it. Hockey (Go Jets!) was my main thing at the time and it wasn't until 1994 that I really started to appreciate/love the game of baseball. Of course, you can all recognise the horrible timing to becoming a Jays fan....

P.S. I did watch the 92/93 series wins at only a detatched level. I think this is the cause of some self loathing...
Coach - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#91059) #
"That was one of the greatest at bats I've ever been in," Fossum said after the game, referring to Mr. Woodward's determination. "I threw everything I had at him."

I concede Robert's point that Fossum was done, and the above quote supports it, but his manager could have let him at least try to get out of his own mess, considering the alternative of bringing in one of the unhappy and confused relievers. Grady Little doesn't buy into the committee, and his team knows it, which is a problem Theo will have to solve soon. Here's the cerebral skipper's explanation:

"I had a vision of a ball going into the seats, but when I had it, I had a vision of Casey throwing it, and that's when I took him out."

Brandon Lyon and Mike Timlin (the only other decent Boston performer out of the 'pen so far) are both train wrecks waiting to happen. I called Boston to win the East because of uncertainty about the Yankees pitching; so far all the old NY starters have been great, and though I was a committee skeptic, the trouble in Beantown is more serious than I imagined possible. I shoulda picked the Jays.
_Chuck Van Den C - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#91060) #
Coach: Chuck, leaving those platoon guys in against the percentages is typical of Carlos -- he's trying to send his players a message that he has confidence in them no matter what the situation. I'm sure they appreciate it, too, even if we don't agree.

I have no doubt that that's what motivated Tosca's thinking. But I just can't see that the psyches of a couple of old pros like Wilson and Berg, two 30-something fringe major leaguers, need to be handled with kid gloves. These guys know their roles.
robertdudek - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#91061) #
I think days off, especially for catchers, are important. There was absolutely no need for Greg Myers to appear in Wednesday's game.

Another point: in a blowout, it's good to let your bench guys face atypical circumstances because they need to be ready to go regardless of the percentages if there is an injury or someone gets tossed from the game.
_Chuck Van Den C - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#91062) #
Another point: in a blowout, it's good to let your bench guys face atypical circumstances because they need to be ready to go regardless of the percentages if there is an injury or someone gets tossed from the game.

Except that being up by 5 runs in the 9th is not a slam dunk victory. If it's Berg facing a RHP with the bases empty, fine. If it's Berg facing a RHP with the bases loaded, that's definitely Catalnotto time, hurt feelings on Berg's part or not.
robertdudek - Monday, April 14 2003 @ 01:53 AM EDT (#91063) #
The chances of coming back from a 5 run deficit in the 9th are slim. If you aren't going to use your bench in that sitaution you might as well never use them.
Game 8: Platoon? | 32 comments | Create New Account
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