Richard Griffin says so in his latest Toronto Star column. It's mostly about Tanyon Sturtze, who's getting a lot of positive ink lately, but I agree with the premise that an arbitration win Thursday over Moorad and Stewart makes such an acquisition possible. Kenny Rogers would be affordable, professional short-term help -- and like Lidle and Sturtze, he'll be auditioning for his next contract and a permanent home.
I'm more interested in Griffin's column of the previous day. How can we be effective fans if we're not given complete injury information?
Griffin actually has a nice little streak of columns going. I'm glad to see it.
Griffin actually has a nice little streak of columns going. I'm glad to see it.
Nuts to the players' privacy. I need injury info for the fantasy draft! Letting players diagnose themselves doesn't really work either. See Chris Carpenter and Luke Prokopec from 2002. That was a worrying observation about Miller...just normal soreness that goes with getting the kinks out in spring or something more?
I am personally of the opinion that MRIs on pitching arms at the beginning, middle, and end of each season can save teams a lot of trouble in the long term. It costs what...a thousand or two for each one? That's peanuts compared to the money spent on total payroll. Budget an extra $200K for regular arm exams for your best pitchers in the majors and minors and be done with it.
Just one more reason that getting a guy like Rogers is likely a good idea. Maybe he'll settle on a one year deal under $2 million at this point. I wouldn't be surprised to see both him and Sturtze eat a lot of innings and win 12 games a piece with an ERA under 4.50. The Jays would then have all kinds of luxury in bringing their young guys along slowly and not pitching them through soreness which might ruin their shoulders (again see Carpenter and Prokopec).
I am personally of the opinion that MRIs on pitching arms at the beginning, middle, and end of each season can save teams a lot of trouble in the long term. It costs what...a thousand or two for each one? That's peanuts compared to the money spent on total payroll. Budget an extra $200K for regular arm exams for your best pitchers in the majors and minors and be done with it.
Just one more reason that getting a guy like Rogers is likely a good idea. Maybe he'll settle on a one year deal under $2 million at this point. I wouldn't be surprised to see both him and Sturtze eat a lot of innings and win 12 games a piece with an ERA under 4.50. The Jays would then have all kinds of luxury in bringing their young guys along slowly and not pitching them through soreness which might ruin their shoulders (again see Carpenter and Prokopec).
I'd be shocked if $2 million was enough to bring Rogers to Toronto. The Sox, White and Red, would more than likely offer more than that, plus they'd likely be more appealing to Rogers from a playoff standpoint.
Here is Griffin's "Jays Muzzling Media" column from yesterday. He concludes:
However, the future blackout on injury information won't stop the media from speculating and that is never good. In this case, accuracy should rule. Privacy is tough to regulate in a very, very public profession that relies on good health and good will.
So here we go, worrying about Miller and knowing nothing. An honest public statement about player health a couple of times a week isn't asking too much of any pro team. There's a billion-dollar sports betting industry, and even fans who aren't in action care.
However, the future blackout on injury information won't stop the media from speculating and that is never good. In this case, accuracy should rule. Privacy is tough to regulate in a very, very public profession that relies on good health and good will.
So here we go, worrying about Miller and knowing nothing. An honest public statement about player health a couple of times a week isn't asking too much of any pro team. There's a billion-dollar sports betting industry, and even fans who aren't in action care.
"Letting players diagnose themselves doesn't really work either. See Chris Carpenter and Luke Prokopec from 2002."
Well, they're not really diagnosing themselves; they're just diagnosing themselves to us. This may not be particularly useful to us, but it's entirely without consequences to the player. The teams and doctors are still in the picture just as much as they ever were; they just won't be (if this article is true) spilling the beans to us anymore.
Well, they're not really diagnosing themselves; they're just diagnosing themselves to us. This may not be particularly useful to us, but it's entirely without consequences to the player. The teams and doctors are still in the picture just as much as they ever were; they just won't be (if this article is true) spilling the beans to us anymore.
There's a billion-dollar sports betting industry, and even fans who aren't in action care.
Baseball? Gambling? Kent! Get your head back under the sand immediately!
Baseball? Gambling? Kent! Get your head back under the sand immediately!
NEWSFLASH:
Jays come to terms with OF Shannon Stewart - 1 year 6.2 million.
Jays come to terms with OF Shannon Stewart - 1 year 6.2 million.
"Jays come to terms with OF Shannon Stewart - 1 year 6.2 million"
There's a waste of $700,000.
There's a waste of $700,000.
"There's a waste of $700,000."
Oh well; so's Doug Creek.
Oh well; so's Doug Creek.
Matt, you're right that the team doctors would still be involved of course. I guess I went off on a tangent there about my leeriness about pitcher health in general.
That's good news about Stewart...eventhough the Jays probably would have won their case, I'm glad they were able to avoid an acrimonious process. Which shows again that Ricciardi is willing to make concessions for players that he likes.
Assuming that $7.5 million would have put the Jays right at their $52 million budget, that leaves a little over $1 million to spend. That's not enough to bring in a guy like Rogers; though if he was that in demand I'd have to believe he'd be signed by this time with pitchers reporting to camp now.
It might be the Jays' best move to add that extra money to their amateur draft coffers and splurge a little in the first two or three rounds. Maybe Ricciardi is a not a guy who likes juggling budgets around though; maybe that extra salary room will just be there to give them some trade flexibility mid-season.
That's good news about Stewart...eventhough the Jays probably would have won their case, I'm glad they were able to avoid an acrimonious process. Which shows again that Ricciardi is willing to make concessions for players that he likes.
Assuming that $7.5 million would have put the Jays right at their $52 million budget, that leaves a little over $1 million to spend. That's not enough to bring in a guy like Rogers; though if he was that in demand I'd have to believe he'd be signed by this time with pitchers reporting to camp now.
It might be the Jays' best move to add that extra money to their amateur draft coffers and splurge a little in the first two or three rounds. Maybe Ricciardi is a not a guy who likes juggling budgets around though; maybe that extra salary room will just be there to give them some trade flexibility mid-season.
"There's a waste of $700,000."
Oh well; so's Doug Creek.
Oh well; so's Doug Creek.
Matt, you're right that the team doctors would still be involved of course. I guess I went off on a tangent there about my leeriness about pitcher health in general.
That's good news about Stewart...eventhough the Jays probably would have won their case, I'm glad they were able to avoid an acrimonious process. Which shows again that Ricciardi is willing to make concessions for players that he likes.
Assuming that $7.5 million would have put the Jays right at their $52 million budget, that leaves a little over $1 million to spend. That's not enough to bring in a guy like Rogers; though if he was that in demand I'd have to believe he'd be signed by this time with pitchers reporting to camp now.
It might be the Jays' best move to add that extra money to their amateur draft coffers and splurge a little in the first two or three rounds. Maybe Ricciardi is a not a guy who likes juggling budgets around though; maybe that extra salary room will just be there to give them some trade flexibility mid-season.
That's good news about Stewart...eventhough the Jays probably would have won their case, I'm glad they were able to avoid an acrimonious process. Which shows again that Ricciardi is willing to make concessions for players that he likes.
Assuming that $7.5 million would have put the Jays right at their $52 million budget, that leaves a little over $1 million to spend. That's not enough to bring in a guy like Rogers; though if he was that in demand I'd have to believe he'd be signed by this time with pitchers reporting to camp now.
It might be the Jays' best move to add that extra money to their amateur draft coffers and splurge a little in the first two or three rounds. Maybe Ricciardi is a not a guy who likes juggling budgets around though; maybe that extra salary room will just be there to give them some trade flexibility mid-season.
For conspiracy theorists out there...
When Atlanta signed Andy Messersmith, one of the very first "free agents," Ted Turner introduced him as Andy "Channel" Messersmith, a nickname nobody understood -- until they unveiled his jersey, which had the word "CHANNEL" over number 17. Of course, TBS was then "Channel 17," and baseball ordered the Braves to cease their uniform-based advertising forthwith. (Messersmith, for his part, replaced "CHANNEL" with "BLUTO" on his next jersey. Heh, heh.)
Of course, here good ol' Ted could sign Kenny and have a perfectly legal walking billboard. Oh, and a quality veteran for the rotation, too.
When Atlanta signed Andy Messersmith, one of the very first "free agents," Ted Turner introduced him as Andy "Channel" Messersmith, a nickname nobody understood -- until they unveiled his jersey, which had the word "CHANNEL" over number 17. Of course, TBS was then "Channel 17," and baseball ordered the Braves to cease their uniform-based advertising forthwith. (Messersmith, for his part, replaced "CHANNEL" with "BLUTO" on his next jersey. Heh, heh.)
Of course, here good ol' Ted could sign Kenny and have a perfectly legal walking billboard. Oh, and a quality veteran for the rotation, too.
According to Spencer Fordin's report on the Stewart deal, JP now has some wiggle room for another SP:
...Ricciardi said that settling with Stewart pre-arbitration may allow the team to get one or two more players into camp. He said that the team's offense is set and that the bullpen seems to have enough competition, but that he might be able to add another starting pitcher.
Aside from Rogers, who else is out there?
...Ricciardi said that settling with Stewart pre-arbitration may allow the team to get one or two more players into camp. He said that the team's offense is set and that the bullpen seems to have enough competition, but that he might be able to add another starting pitcher.
Aside from Rogers, who else is out there?
Assuming that $7.5 million would have put the Jays right at their $52 million budget, that leaves a little over $1 million to spend.
Are you sure that's the budget? I've repeatedly heard "mid-50's" from JP but never an accurate number.
With the Stewart signing, the Jays are at around $51M, depending on what they give the guys with less than 3 years of service and what they gave Dave Berg. I can't seem to find what Berg's contract extension was worth. Anyone know? I assumed $1M per year.
If the payroll budget is set at "mid-50's" and if my addition is correct at $51M, there is room for a Kenny Rogers. That said, why waste the money? It's developmental year and while Rogers may mean a couple more wins, 38 year olds don't develop much except beer bellies and bald spots.
Are you sure that's the budget? I've repeatedly heard "mid-50's" from JP but never an accurate number.
With the Stewart signing, the Jays are at around $51M, depending on what they give the guys with less than 3 years of service and what they gave Dave Berg. I can't seem to find what Berg's contract extension was worth. Anyone know? I assumed $1M per year.
If the payroll budget is set at "mid-50's" and if my addition is correct at $51M, there is room for a Kenny Rogers. That said, why waste the money? It's developmental year and while Rogers may mean a couple more wins, 38 year olds don't develop much except beer bellies and bald spots.
Aside from Rogers, who else is out there?
Chuck Finley (old) and Robert Person (just generally icky).
Chuck Finley (old) and Robert Person (just generally icky).
"I'm glad they were able to avoid an acrimonious process. Which shows again that Ricciardi is willing to make concessions for players that he likes."
The Jays must have thought there was at some risk of losing in arbitration because I don't think very many teams, let alone the Jays, would give someone an extra $700,000 just to keep them happy.
Having cost certainty & knowing they could use the remaining $1.3 probably was a factor as well.
The Jays must have thought there was at some risk of losing in arbitration because I don't think very many teams, let alone the Jays, would give someone an extra $700,000 just to keep them happy.
Having cost certainty & knowing they could use the remaining $1.3 probably was a factor as well.
Look, you guys, this whole Kenny Rogers thing is very simple.
"That said, why waste the money? It's developmental year and while Rogers may mean a couple more wins, 38 year olds don't develop much except beer bellies and bald spots."
Well, you see, you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em...
"Chuck Finley (old) and Robert Person (just generally icky)."
...know when to walk away; know when to run.
"With the Stewart signing, the Jays are at around $51M, depending on what they give the guys with less than 3 years of service and what they gave Dave Berg. I can't seem to find what Berg's contract extension was worth. Anyone know? I assumed $1M per year."
Hey! You never count your money when you're sitting at the table! There'll be time enough to count it when the dealing's done.
I hope that clears everything up.
"That said, why waste the money? It's developmental year and while Rogers may mean a couple more wins, 38 year olds don't develop much except beer bellies and bald spots."
Well, you see, you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em...
"Chuck Finley (old) and Robert Person (just generally icky)."
...know when to walk away; know when to run.
"With the Stewart signing, the Jays are at around $51M, depending on what they give the guys with less than 3 years of service and what they gave Dave Berg. I can't seem to find what Berg's contract extension was worth. Anyone know? I assumed $1M per year."
Hey! You never count your money when you're sitting at the table! There'll be time enough to count it when the dealing's done.
I hope that clears everything up.
True enough Matthew. But let's not forget that every gambler knows the secret to survivin is knowing what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
Oh, sure, haul out the old "Gambler" lyrics. When I was fantasy-corresponding for the Rangers ("This week's news: still no pitching!"), I just couldn't get enough of the fantasy players who sent in the Kenny Rogers Rotisserie Chicken puns.
How's Rogers' wing this week? Is he gonna get roasted by the A's? Hey, he looked sharp, even extra-crisp-y! Can he cook up some Orioles (Blue Jays, Cardinals)?
Et-freaking-cetera.
How's Rogers' wing this week? Is he gonna get roasted by the A's? Hey, he looked sharp, even extra-crisp-y! Can he cook up some Orioles (Blue Jays, Cardinals)?
Et-freaking-cetera.
Finley would require a first round pick as compensation so the Jays would have zero interest I think. Person has a gimpy shoulder and Benes retired with a gimpy knee, so that leaves Rogers as the only pitcher of note left out there.
Supposedly the Red Sox have shown light interest and the Rangers can't negotiate with him until May 1st. I haven't heard anything about the White Sox being interested though it could be a possibility. And Rogers is...you guessed it...a former Athletic; the ace of the A's staff at the time they traded him for Terrance Long.
Supposedly the Red Sox have shown light interest and the Rangers can't negotiate with him until May 1st. I haven't heard anything about the White Sox being interested though it could be a possibility. And Rogers is...you guessed it...a former Athletic; the ace of the A's staff at the time they traded him for Terrance Long.
The White Sox interest in Rogers might have been before they acquired Colon.
I do remember reading in one of the Boston papers that Rogers wasn't coming down a bit from $5 million.
I do remember reading in one of the Boston papers that Rogers wasn't coming down a bit from $5 million.
The White Sox and Rogers cut off talks last week. Kenny Williams said that Boras claimed the market was resurging and that Rogers would end up with more money than Williams could dream of. Boras, evidently, is not afraid to look foolish in public. Odds are still slim, but Rogers may yet end up in Ranger blue.
Admit it, Mick: writing about Rick Helling and Darren Oliver was the pinnacle of your existence. Just as writing about John Thomson is the pinnacle of mine.
Admit it, Mick: writing about Rick Helling and Darren Oliver was the pinnacle of your existence. Just as writing about John Thomson is the pinnacle of mine.
It's lovely to see Boras twist in the wind like this. Shunned at the amateur draft, losing the arbitration case for Beltran, asking a ridiculous amount for Kenny Rogers. Sure Scott...now that there are fewer teams interested the market for Rogers is bound to pick up any day now.
Rogers could wait until May 1st to negotiate with the Rangers, but I don't know that he'd have the leverage to demand $5 million from them at that point. Maybe Boras thinks he can squeeze $3 million out of Texas. He has successfully gotten them to bid against themselves in the past with A-Rod. More likely it's wishful thinking.
I guess Rogers is in a position where he doesn't care if he misses the first month of the season. And you never know; in mid-April a rich team could suddenly decide they do have money to throw at a starter afterall.
Rogers could wait until May 1st to negotiate with the Rangers, but I don't know that he'd have the leverage to demand $5 million from them at that point. Maybe Boras thinks he can squeeze $3 million out of Texas. He has successfully gotten them to bid against themselves in the past with A-Rod. More likely it's wishful thinking.
I guess Rogers is in a position where he doesn't care if he misses the first month of the season. And you never know; in mid-April a rich team could suddenly decide they do have money to throw at a starter afterall.
And you never know; in mid-April a rich team could suddenly decide they do have money to throw at a starter afterall.
That's almost the point I thought you were going to make. :-)
Right now, I think sitting out would be a brilliant move on Rogers' part. The best possible scenario for him is probably this (financially speaking):
- Don't sign with anyone.
- Actually, do sign with someone: The Forth Worth Cats.
- Agree to make one "celebrity" five-inning appearance per homestand in order to stay in shape and keep loose.
- Wait.
Not for May 1 and an offer from the 11-18 Texas Rangers, but until ... oh, I don't know. Until Pedro Martinez goes on the DL for the first-place-in-late-May-again Red Sox. Or Jamie Moyer blows an elbow for the pennant-chasing Mariners in June. Or Pedro Astacio is deported for some Mets-curse reason in July. Or even wait until after the trading deadline and sign with the ever-hopeful Cubs after Kerry Wood gets hurt.
NFL running backs do this all the time now. Don't just sign; wait around for the right situation and name your price. Pitchers, like running backs, are injury magents. In the NFL this is known as "The Terry Allen Plan." It could land Rogers in Arizona replacing a "'surprisingly ineffective,' said manager Bob Brenly" Elmer Dessens behind Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling in the D-Backs' playoff rotation.
That's almost the point I thought you were going to make. :-)
Right now, I think sitting out would be a brilliant move on Rogers' part. The best possible scenario for him is probably this (financially speaking):
- Don't sign with anyone.
- Actually, do sign with someone: The Forth Worth Cats.
- Agree to make one "celebrity" five-inning appearance per homestand in order to stay in shape and keep loose.
- Wait.
Not for May 1 and an offer from the 11-18 Texas Rangers, but until ... oh, I don't know. Until Pedro Martinez goes on the DL for the first-place-in-late-May-again Red Sox. Or Jamie Moyer blows an elbow for the pennant-chasing Mariners in June. Or Pedro Astacio is deported for some Mets-curse reason in July. Or even wait until after the trading deadline and sign with the ever-hopeful Cubs after Kerry Wood gets hurt.
NFL running backs do this all the time now. Don't just sign; wait around for the right situation and name your price. Pitchers, like running backs, are injury magents. In the NFL this is known as "The Terry Allen Plan." It could land Rogers in Arizona replacing a "'surprisingly ineffective,' said manager Bob Brenly" Elmer Dessens behind Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling in the D-Backs' playoff rotation.
Carlos Tosca was on the Fan half an hour ago and he had this to say on "the perception that there are few positional battles this spring":
We could do the smart thing and read basically nothing into this, but that's not what we're all about, now is it? Comment #1 could indicate that Hendrickson's already in the rotation. Conversly, perhaps the two comments go together and Hendrickson's most likely destination is lefty set-up.
- The rotation is not set yet. He mentioned Miller, Linton, and Walker, but neglected to mention Hendrickson as players in the mix. He did put an asterisk on that by saying "...ummm, dont know if I'm forgetting anybody here..."
- The top lefthander out of the pen is TBD.
We could do the smart thing and read basically nothing into this, but that's not what we're all about, now is it? Comment #1 could indicate that Hendrickson's already in the rotation. Conversly, perhaps the two comments go together and Hendrickson's most likely destination is lefty set-up.
Ah, cripes. Richard Griffin used basically the same 'Gambler' joke I did in his column today. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go step in front of a bus because I've obviously hit rock bottom.
I never fully understood the advertising tagline that Kenny Rogers Roasters Restaurants used a while back: "If you're not completely satisfied, you get your money back. That's why they call me the Gambler." If it's all the same to you, Kenny, I'd rather eat someplace where satisfaction guarantees aren't considered "gambles."
And when he finished eating
He ran straight for the bathroom
Looking mighty nauseous
And green about the gills.
And when the doctor told him
He'd contracted salmonella
He knew the truth of what he'd heard:
Kenny Rogers' chicken kills.
And when he finished eating
He ran straight for the bathroom
Looking mighty nauseous
And green about the gills.
And when the doctor told him
He'd contracted salmonella
He knew the truth of what he'd heard:
Kenny Rogers' chicken kills.
J.P., this morning's FAN590 Insider acknowledged the Jays' interest in Rogers, but said it would be a "longshot".
EVERYBODY SING!
Ohhhh ...
You got to know when to chew it
Know when to spew it
How much to sock away
'afore ya git the runs
I'll always take your money
To put chicken on the table
There's time enough a-later
To pull out the Tums ...
Ohhhh ...
You got to know when to chew it
Know when to spew it
How much to sock away
'afore ya git the runs
I'll always take your money
To put chicken on the table
There's time enough a-later
To pull out the Tums ...
Every diner knows
That the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what's real chicken
And what's just last weeks' sheep
Cause every plate's a myst'ry
And could cause you great mis'ry
And the best you can hope for
Is survivin' another week
That the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what's real chicken
And what's just last weeks' sheep
Cause every plate's a myst'ry
And could cause you great mis'ry
And the best you can hope for
Is survivin' another week
This coming from the guy who once used Finnegan's Wake as a model for a fantasy baseball column? For an audience primarily made up of people who think "Finnegan" is that wide receiver guy on the Atlanta Falcons and James Joyce played the brunette on Three's Company?
Gizzi is just jealous that he didn't riff on "The Gambler" first after having to watch Terrence Long, acquired in trade for that selfsave Kenny Rogers, "hit" for the A's for lo these many months.
Gizzi is just jealous that he didn't riff on "The Gambler" first after having to watch Terrence Long, acquired in trade for that selfsave Kenny Rogers, "hit" for the A's for lo these many months.
"...an audience primarily made up of people who think "Finnegan" is that wide receiver guy on the Atlanta Falcons..."
I thought Finnegan was the floppy-eared silent grey dog puppet on 'Mr. Dressup'.
I thought Finnegan was the floppy-eared silent grey dog puppet on 'Mr. Dressup'.
For the Americans, Mr. Dressup is the Canadian (and much cooler) version of Mr. Rogers.
I am sad. Before today, the most-commented-on topic on this site was the trade. You know, THE TRADE. Of me. Felipe. Felipe Lopez.
But now this Kenny Freaking Rogers, who has never even played for the Blue Jays yet, not only catches me as the most popular topic, but gets his own SONG LYRICS?
You have no loyalty. I am wounded. I shall come back to haunt you when the Reds beat the Blue Jays in the World Series. Fear me, A-Rod!
But now this Kenny Freaking Rogers, who has never even played for the Blue Jays yet, not only catches me as the most popular topic, but gets his own SONG LYRICS?
You have no loyalty. I am wounded. I shall come back to haunt you when the Reds beat the Blue Jays in the World Series. Fear me, A-Rod!
Only if you take up Livan Hernandez's bad habits with a golf club.
For an audience primarily made up of people who think "Finnegan" is that wide receiver guy on the Atlanta Falcons and James Joyce played the brunette on Three's Company?
Always De Witty one, you are, Mick.
Always De Witty one, you are, Mick.
Let me guess: he has nightmares about Cardinal Richelieu.