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The 2003 Blue Jays' batting order has been a lively topic here before, and Bob Elliott of the Sun goes straight to the source in his latest column, quoting Carlos Tosca at length.

"It will hit me all at once one day during a spring game once I see what everyone can do," says the Little General, who also wants one-on-one chats about the lineup with all his regulars.

The skipper's declared preference to alternate L-R bats makes it sound like Stew-Hinske-Wells-Delgado-Phelps-Cat-Woodward to me, and although it's not my first choice, it's not bad. Puts the pressure on Wells more than I would, but it's subject to change -- last year at this time, we were told Vernon was the fourth OF and primary DH, which never happened. Carlos has talked to the coaches, but if J.P. gets a vote...
Vernon Wells #3? | 9 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Steve Z. - Sunday, February 02 2003 @ 01:30 PM EST (#97317) #
Coach, I was just about to post a link to Elliott's column, but I was hoping someone like yourself would start a new thread. For all the conversations on this site, and others, regarding Spring Training battles, the issue of a back-up CF'er has received very little play. Finding someone to back up Wells is Tosca's biggest task at camp. The only viable options (that I can think of) are Werth, Wise, and the under-the-radar Mike Colangelo. The latter, Colangelo, gets the nod on the opening day 25-man roster, says my crystal ball; (DeWayne, out of options, is waived and and lost, ala Chris Latham last year; Werth, having added some muscle to his long, athletic, frame, spends the first two months tearing up the International League to the tune of 290/400/520).
_DS - Sunday, February 02 2003 @ 01:46 PM EST (#97318) #
Why would they waive Wise? He seems more than competent enough defensively, and it's not like he'll see much playing time anyway behind Wells. Granted, he can't hit a lick, but his deficiencies won't prevent this team from playing to expectations. If they're relying on Dewayne Wise to help carry the offense, there are real problems with the team offense.
_jason - Sunday, February 02 2003 @ 04:59 PM EST (#97319) #
Alex Ochoa would have made a good 4th OF. The Cards only gave him a minor-league deal. Also, whats the deal with Ricky Henderson? Has anyone signed him? He can still play (.369 OBP last year) and I'm sure he wants to. He did play some CF and RF last year for Boston in addition to LF.
Coach - Sunday, February 02 2003 @ 05:29 PM EST (#97320) #
Yeah, St. Louis grabbed Orlando Palmeiro, too, presumably for a pittance. Looks like they're more worried about J.D. Drew than they've let on. Rickey's still unsigned, as are Kenny Lofton, Ron Gant, Ray Lankford and a couple of decent veteran pitchers. With Escobar settling, and Stewart likely to lose in a hearing, there may be some room in the budget for another FA, but it doesn't seem necessary.

Wise looks quick enough when he plays the corners, and could play CF, but isn't a big defensive plus there. If Dewayne is out of options, I'm afraid Steve's right; he might catch on somewhere, but looks like a victim of the numbers game in T.O.

I'm almost certain Colangelo was signed to play in Syracuse and would get called up only in the event of a Wells injury emergency; he's legitimate in the field but no better than Wise with the stick. Bruce Aven or Howie Clark could enter the picture with a solid spring, which isn't ideal, as that would leave Stewart as the alternate CF. We're talking about the 25th man, so I still prefer Werth, who at least has a little power, didn't embarrass himself in his first game in CF, can platoon with Cat and even catch.

Does anyone know where to find the status of other "borderline" guys? How many more times can Werth and Miller (to name two) be farmed out?
_Jordan - Sunday, February 02 2003 @ 06:19 PM EST (#97321) #
My nominations for regular Jays lineups against LHs and RHs (with OPS against each side in brackets)

Left-hander---------------Right-hander
Stewart (844)-------------Stewart (808)
The Cat (759)-------------The Cat (831)
Wilson (894)---------------Hinske (905)
Delgado (815)-------------Delgado (992)
Phelps (792)---------------Phelps (955)
Wells (700)----------------Wells (783)
Hinske (632)-------------- Woodward (778)
Woodward (516)----------Myers (700)
Hudson (469)--------------Hudson (857)

Some notes: Catalanotto has a lower OPS than Wells against lefties, but his OBP against them is .387, versus .322 for Vernon. Cat loses a lot of his power against lefties, but who needs power in the two-slot? Stewart and Catalanotto should be the everyday 1-2 punch.

Wilson has the best career OPS against lefties on the entire team , and he should be in the 3-spot against them, convention be dratted. If the other team brings in a lefty, Myers (700 career OPS, 768 last year) or someone off the bench can pinch-hit; this will become a lot easier to manage when Kevin Cash arrives. Wilson's bat has to be high in the lineup against lefties.

Hinske will improve against southpaws given time, talent and work ethic, each of which he has in abundance. Against righties, yes, this does mean a L-L-L run in the 2-3-4 slots. But honestly, I'd rather see Tosca manage aggressively and put his best lineup out there from the start, get as many runs as he can, force the other manager to be reactive, and deal with the 8th inning when it comes.

Generally, all the younger RH hitters should figure to improve against lefties: the OPS listed for Wells, Woodward, Phelps and Hudson all came from very limited action. This team will doubtless struggle against lefties early on, but if the young players learn and improve from the experience, it will be invaluable time and energy invested for the future.
_jason - Sunday, February 02 2003 @ 09:07 PM EST (#97322) #
I didnt realize Wilson hit Lefties that well. I guess that puts the nail in the coffin for Huckaby's chances. He should be a good mentor for Cash in AAA. I see him having a career as a possible managerial/instructor type anyways.
_dp - Sunday, February 02 2003 @ 10:16 PM EST (#97323) #
jordan, i'm all for the unconventional lineup, but if you bat Wilson #3, then later in the game when the bring in a rightie you're going to have Myers (or a worthless Wilson) hitting in between the team's best hitters. That could be a crucial out in a close game.

I'm totally aginst batting Wells in the 3 spot, though. It seems like a dumb move- ideally, you want 3 high OB% guys ahead of Delgado and Phelps.
Coach - Monday, February 03 2003 @ 11:53 AM EST (#97324) #
Jordan, at our BB lunch, I was only half-joking when I said the biggest problem for the offence would be the catchers clogging the basepaths. Your approach against lefties makes sense, but I think that's where they will give Wells some 3-hole experience, and hit Wilson sixth. Like the bullpen committee idea -- the manager gets second-guessed enough following "traditional wisdom," so a "radical" idea is going to fuel the fire for the armchair critics in the media. I also think they'll rest Cat every so often, aiming for 450-500 AB, so he'll sit against most lefty starters (there's your PH for Wilson, dp) which gets Berg some deserved playing time. Bordick might be in there too, if Woody continues his struggles against southpaws.

Thanks to the eagle-eyed reader who e-mailed me some information about remaining options. Apparently Werth (and Phelps) can each be sent down one more time, and both Brian Bowles and forgotten man Bob File will be on their last chance to stick if and when they're called up again. Hinske and Hudson have two more options, not that I expect them to be needed; so does Mike Smith. Hendrickson, Thurman and Cash can still be Syracuse-shuttled three times each. The technicality involving Wise, who does have two options left, is that he will lose them April 3, the third anniversary of his big-league debut. So Steve is right, in essence; if Dewayne does make the team in spring training, after a week of the regular season, he would then be subject to waivers.
_Scott R. Lucas - Monday, February 03 2003 @ 02:33 PM EST (#97325) #
RE: Cat loses a lot of his power against lefties.

Quite so. In fact, Cat has never hit a home run against a lefthanded pitcher.

Still, he has a .387 OBP against them, so bat him second and be done with it.
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