Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
Well, we can officially scotch the Russ-Ortiz-to-Toronto rumours: the Giants just dealt him to the Braves for another guy I rather liked: Damian Moss, plus a minor leaguer. Frankly, it seems like an odd deal for the Braves: why did Atlanta want to add an older pitcher with a higher price tag and worrisome peripherals when they already had one in Moss? In any event, there go two potential trading partners in one swell foop.

So, we'd best start cooking up some different Jose-Cruz-for-pitching rumours to keep us going. As is so often the case, this deal was foreseen by no one and came out of the blue. Rumours are great fun, but that's all they are.
No Ortiz for You! | 20 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Coach - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 12:42 PM EST (#100945) #
Though I called Felipe Alou "past his prime" elsewhere, he's been handed a pretty good lineup, and the Giants will be difficult to dethrone in the NL. However, if they disappoint, most of the blame will be placed at the feet of the ancient skipper, and Sabean, relatively unscathed, will open the vault again next year. Maybe this means the Jays turned their attention elsewhere, but I think SF simply recognized an excellent deal and accepted it. In other words, I'd much rather have Moss and a prospect than Cruz.

Rumours sometimes start out of nowhere -- one blogger suggested yesterday that the Jays would flip one of their Rule 5 pickups to the A's for John-Ford Griffin, but what does he know? (I admit it was a wild guess; I still think JFG is coming to Toronto, but have no idea in what kind of deal, or when.) Other times, front offices leak information for their own purposes, perhaps mentioning a stalled discussion to stimulate activity from a third party. The lack of movement by the Expos (so far) seems to support the contention of several cynics, myself included, that MLB used "its" team -- and rumours -- to deflate the Nashville market and wrist-slap the union and the agents.
Coach - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 03:46 PM EST (#100946) #
The suddenly busy Braves also signed Paul Byrd today; two years. He is a joy to watch -- every pitch has a purpose. Atlanta is loaded with RH starters now, making the decision to jettison Moss (after trading Perez last year and letting Glavine go) even more of a surprise. And they're sure taking their time with Maddux.

That makes the Royals' ace Jeff (9-16, 5.22) Suppan, and they're shopping Carlos Beltran. This is what MLB calls competitive balance.
Pistol - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 03:52 PM EST (#100947) #
With the Ortiz and Byrd acquisitions, and the likely(?) acceptance of arbitration by Maddux, would Marquis be available?

I wouldn't mind JP going after him.
_jason - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 03:52 PM EST (#100948) #
Its possible that Ortiz is just insurance in case the Braves dont land Maddux, and if they do they might turn around and deal Ortiz. And the Giants could also turn around and trade Moss for an outfielder.
_R Billie - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 03:54 PM EST (#100949) #
When JP was asked near the end of the winter meetings about when or if Griffin would be coming to the Jays he said "talk to me next week".

There is something in the works involving Oakland. Maybe they're waiting for the non-tender deadline to pass or they're waiting for a third team. But Oakland did want a centerfielder.

However, Oakland may have gotten a centerfielder for no cost. They picked up Rontrez Johnson in the Rule V draft yesterday (26 years old, .300/.397/.454 in the PCL). According to DePodesta they plan to start him in centre. Of course Johnson isn't a sure thing and Cruz would be much more bankable.

But this lingering Griffin leg of the Lopez-Arnold deal is driving me nuts. Will it be minor or is there a big move planned here?

Also does anyone know what constitutes a qualifying offer to an arbitration eligible player? Is a team allowed to offer a paycut or is there a minimum raise that must be given?
_Jordan - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 03:57 PM EST (#100950) #
What is going on in Atlanta? Here's the rotation as we speak:

Kevin Millwood
Mike Hampton
Jason Marquis
Russ Ortiz
Paul Byrd

I think we can safely assume that Greg Maddux will now not return to Georgia. I expected that the Braves would let go of either Maddux or Glavine, but I never thought they'd get rid of both. Wow.

Now, that's a fine rotation and all, even if you're overpaying for a 5th starter, but the Braves still have no one at first base, a whiffle bat at third, and a third baseman in the outfield. Oh yeah, and a $10 million closer who ought to be starting. In other words, meet the new Braves, same as the old Braves. Memo to John Scheurholz: maybe it's not the pieces on the chessboard; maybe it's the guy moving them around that's the problem.
_R Billie - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 04:06 PM EST (#100951) #
There was talk at one point that the Jays were pursuing Damian Moss as the possible return for Lopez or Hudson...I have to say I'm much happier with them getting Jason Arnold. I'm pretty sure Moss won't have much of a decrease in performance going to the pitcher friendly San Fran park...if Kirk Reuter can succeed there then Moss certainly can as well. I wouldn't have nearly as much confidence in Moss succeeding in AL parks.

I do agree it's a bit of a curious trade for Altanta but not really if they don't plan to offer Maddux a contract...but I'd personally rather have Ortiz's power arm in the hands of Leo Mazzone. And the Braves signed Paul Byrd to two years today as well...so it's possible Maddux might not be offered a deal.
Craig B - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 04:08 PM EST (#100952) #
Now, that's a fine rotation and all, even if you're overpaying for a 5th starter, but the Braves still have no one at first base, a whiffle bat at third, and a third baseman in the outfield.

Sounds like a job for Jose Cruz Jr. to fix. Who says the Ortiz deal is dead? The Braves look a lot better with Cruz in the lineup than Castilla, and with Cruz in the outfield instead of Larry Jones.
Craig B - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 04:10 PM EST (#100953) #
Maddux might also still decide to accept arbitration to grab a one-year big-money deal and try to get a three-year deal next year to take him through to the end. Maddux would probably make $12 million at arbitration.

With less money being thrown around this year than previously, guys seem better off going to arbitration
_Jordan - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 04:11 PM EST (#100954) #
Hmmm...I hadn't considered that they might re-sign Maddux and trade one of the current starters. I would be all over Jason Marquis if he were available, but I think the Jays dealt away the only infield prospect who interested Atlanta. But youneverknow.

There is something in the works involving Oakland. Maybe they're waiting for the non-tender deadline to pass or they're waiting for a third team. But Oakland did want a centerfielder.

Hey, here's a totally cool and incredibly unlikely thought:

1. Jose Cruz to Oakland.
2. Kelvim Escobar, Dominic Rich and Rontrez Johnson to Kansas City.
3. John-Ford Griffin and Carlos Beltran to Toronto.

California dreaming, I know, but hey, if JP and Billy Beane really did gang up on poor Allard Baird, anything could happen.....
_Allard Baird - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 04:35 PM EST (#100955) #
Though I don't have a single starter who can go five innings, I do need a Proven Closer...
_Jordan - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 04:43 PM EST (#100956) #
That's the spirit, Allard. :-) Actually, I'd try to sell him on converting Escobar to a starter, but there are probably metaphysical limits to what any one man could possibly believe.
_Kent - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 04:55 PM EST (#100957) #
what constitutes a qualifying offer to an arbitration eligible player? Is a team allowed to offer a paycut or is there a minimum raise that must be given?

You could offer him anything, to reserve the "right" to go to arbitration. So if you are really afraid (see Rangers, Texas vs. Rodriguez, Ivan) that the judge would award some ridiculous amount, even a low qualifying offer can backfire, and you are better not to make one.

The inability of the arbitrator to "split the difference" or make any other reasonable award means agents submit the highest number they can support (Pudge=Piazza) but since teams don't want to come in too low, even when they "win" it's at an inflated amount.

Maddux, if he doesn't get blown away by a 3-4 year offer from someone else, might get $12 million (as Craig suggests) but only if the Braves win the decision. His agent could ask for $14-15 million and use the Brown and Hampton contracts to "prove" he "deserves" it. Then the Braves might have to trade Ortiz, or Millwood. The off-the-field part of the game has become almost as difficult as hitting a slider.
_R Billie - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 05:02 PM EST (#100958) #
Well I guess the hope is that the Jays make a reasonable qualifying offer to Cruz (his injuries and lower performance this year help a bit) and better yet get him to agree to a one year deal before going to arbitration.

This may in fact be what is holding up a deal with Oakland...Oakland wants Toronto to make the qualifying offer and maybe complete a contract with Cruz before anything else is done.
Craig B - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 05:48 PM EST (#100959) #
Is a team allowed to offer a paycut

I am pretty sure that you can offer a cut of up to 20%, no higher.
Craig B - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 05:51 PM EST (#100960) #
On an unrelated note, I just received some mail from the U.S. addressed to "Celia Roady". This is, unquestionably, the worst spelling of my name I have ever seen in my life. They got the first letter right, and the fourth letter, and the last letter, and all the other letters are wrong.
_Jordan - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 05:58 PM EST (#100961) #
I've been addressed as Jordon, Jardan, and Gordon. But the Toronto Blue Jays marketing department was the only place that ever sent me a letter addressed to "Maurice Furlong." I still have no idea what that was about.

The best address I ever received at my current editorial job was from the Law Society of New South Wales: "Jordan Furlong, Ediot-in-Chief."

"Some people call me Maurice ... wheet-whoo...."
_Kent - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 06:11 PM EST (#100962) #
My sister Bess was asked to spell her name by someone with a French accent, who sent mail addressed to "Biff," and the name has stuck.
_Ryan Adams - Tuesday, December 17 2002 @ 07:52 PM EST (#100963) #
I'm just glad I'm not the only person with this name who has to put up with Brian Adams jokes.
Dave Till - Wednesday, December 18 2002 @ 09:55 AM EST (#100964) #
I am occasionally forced to deal with people who think that "Till when?" is a witty response. (Hint: it's not.)
No Ortiz for You! | 20 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.