The Jays had to trade him. What good is he on a 65-70 win team?

I hope what we got for him will work out.

I think the Jays got a very decent return for him in all the circumstances. In fact, the team would likely have received significantly less if Doc hadn't agreed to a such a team-friendly contract extension with the Phillies. However, part of me wonders whether AA could have taken a tough stand and somehow pried away Drabek, Brown and D'Arnaud. I doubt the Phillies would have pulled the trigger on that one, though. All in all, I think AA did very well in the deal.

The Jays won 65-70 once during Doc's career here, and that was mostly because he missed 2 months. The Jays won 75 games last year and were unlucky with their Pythag, so I would have been surprised if they didn't finish .500 this year with the return of Marcum and the growth of the young arms through their experience in 2009. Roy didn't HAVE to be traded, Rogers and Beeston chose to trade him. They can talk about scouting and development all they want, but the bottom line is that payroll dropped yet again as my ticket prices rose, and that's after we were sold the nonsense from Beeston prior to 2009 that it was a reloading year for 2010. I refuse to believe that this team couldn't have contended with the addition of guys like Jason Bay, Adrian Beltre, and some arms like Sheets and Harden. Although I'm happy with the return of Drabek, Wallace, and D'Arnaud, I wonder what Philadelphia was offering without the Jays swallowing 6m and would have preferred keeping Doc until the trade deadline and then seeing what's out there for all their tradable assets if their was no hope for contention.

I'm sure the one move that AA regrets is not making a preemptive bid for Chapman, who looks like the real deal. That would have given the Jays a youthful starting four of Marcum/Romero/Chapman/Drabek in 2011, with ample depth beyond in Stewart, Cecil, Morrow, Jenkins, etc. Along with AA's other moves and the extra draft picks this summer, signing Chapman might have been enough to fast-forward the franchise back into playoff relevance within a year or two.

Yeah, why didn't they go out and trade for Pujols and A-Rod and get a few more decent starters like CC.

Oh wait, this isn't a fantasy league?

Could the Jays have contended with Halladay and hoping the kids develop? Yeah, possibly. If they added a few free agents on top? Yeah, possibly. However, AA made a very good point in the offseason - it is extremely rare for a team to go from 75 to 95 wins in one year. It happens, but pretty much everything must go right for it to happen and in the AL East less than 95 wins normally means golfing in October instead of baseball.

I wanted the Jays to keep going for it as much as anyone, but pulling back it was obvious that, unless they signed every major free agent on the market, odds were drastically against them. To gain 20 games in one year, even if your pythag says you have 1/2 of it ahead of time, you need to get 2 superstar level players replacing replacement level players. Given Scutaro was not going to hit like he did last year, given Encarnacion (or any replacement) wouldn't hit/field like Rolen did for 1/2 a year last year, given Hill just had a career year, given Wells is on the wrong side of 30 to expect a comeback the decision to cut bait and move on just made sense.

I'm sure the one move that AA regrets is not making a preemptive bid for Chapman, who looks like the real deal. That would have given the Jays a youthful starting four of Marcum/Romero/Chapman/Drabek in 2011, with ample depth beyond in Stewart, Cecil, Morrow, Jenkins, etc. Along with AA's other moves and the extra draft picks this summer, signing Chapman might have been enough to fast-forward the franchise back into playoff relevance within a year or two.

Chapman for 30 million seems way too risky. You have to keep in mind he has only made one start and still has a long road ahead of him until that contract can be deemed a success. As a Jays fan, with the rate young pitchers seem to tear their elbows and shoulders, committing 30 million to any pitcher who doesn't have a proven health history seems irrational.

I'm sure the one move that AA regrets is not making a preemptive bid for Chapman, who looks like the real deal. That would have given the Jays a youthful starting four of Marcum/Romero/Chapman/Drabek in 2011, with ample depth beyond in Stewart, Cecil, Morrow, Jenkins, etc. Along with AA's other moves and the extra draft picks this summer, signing Chapman might have been enough to fast-forward the franchise back into playoff relevance within a year or two.

Chapman for 30 million seems way too risky. You have to keep in mind he has only made one start and still has a long road ahead of him until that contract can be deemed a success. As a Jays fan, with the rate young pitchers seem to tear their elbows and shoulders, committing 30 million to any pitcher who doesn't have a proven health history seems irrational.

I think the point was that if AA had offered the 24 million to Chapman a lot earlier, perhaps the bidding would never have reached a stage where the Reds offer 30 mil. 

I think the point was that if AA had offered the 24 million to Chapman a lot earlier, perhaps the bidding would never have reached a stage where the Reds offer 30 mil.

Perhaps they would have got him for 24 million, but I doubt it. The Hendricks brothers we're going to show him off to anyone serious and get the max offer. We certainly don't know enough about the negotiations to say that blindly throwing 24 million at Chapman before anyone saw him would have locked him down. If anything, it might have given the Hendricks brothers a better starting off point and raised the bar on the Reds. Their winning bid was 30 million, who knows how high they would have gone.