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Here's a challenge ... can you name the greatese single Franchise Position in baseball history? Isn't it Left Field, Boston Red Sox?

Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski you know about. Before them came Duffy Lewis -- who would have made a bushel of All-Star Games had there been such a thing back then -- and after them came Jim Rice, Mike Greenwell and now Manny Ramirez, the latter who is also headed to the HOF.

Um ... wow. I don't think even NYY 1B -- Gehrig, Skowron, Chambliss, Mattingly -- comes close to that. Does anyone else come close?

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Mick Doherty - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#186366) #

Of course, I picked the wrong NYY Position to compare ...

Combs, DiMaggio, Mantle, Murcer, B. Williams ... Melky Cabrera? I think the BOS LF still holds up!

Pepper Moffatt - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#186367) #
How about NYY, C:

Dickey, Berra, Howard, Munson, Posada, ... Matt Nokes...

Dries up after 5, but that's a terrific 5.

ChicagoJaysFan - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#186368) #

Of course, I picked the wrong NYY Position to compare ...

Combs, DiMaggio, Mantle, Murcer, B. Williams ... Melky Cabrera? I think the BOS LF still holds up!

You can squeeze Rickey Henderson in there as well, he played CF in 85 and 86 for the Yanks.

I give the BOS LF the advantage if you're talking just the bat - but the NYY CF would likely be better if you incorporate defense.

King Rat - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#186369) #
Well, the Yankees have usually had good catching-Dickey, Berra, Howard, Munson, Posada. Also centre field-Combs, DiMaggio, Mantle, Williams at least competes with Red Sox LF.

Other than that, though, I don't see much to challenge the Monster Men. The Sox have had a remarkable run.

Mike Green - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#186370) #
The Cardinals first basemen have included: Pujols, McGwire, Pedro Guerrero, Jack Clark, Keith Hernandez, Joe Torre, Orlando Cepeda, Bill White, Stan Musial, Johnny Mize, Ripper Collins and Jim Bottomley.  Usually, they have played 5-7 years with the organization; the Cards have been expert at getting the best years from the careers of sluggers.  They have usually had a Hall of Famer or near Hall of Famer at the position since 1920.

james - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#186377) #
Not arguing that it tops Yaz et al, but for such a poor franchise overall, the Baltimore Orioles have had a surprising run of shortstops, anchored by Ripken, but add Tejado, even Belanger, and way back to Bobby  Wallace  and his 2,300 hits. 


zeppelinkm - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#186378) #

This isn't going to be close, but it is fun to look at some organizations and see what positions were a strength for them.

The Expo's had some pretty good RF'ers:

Andre Dawson, Vladdy, and the Canadian Hero, Mr. Walker are the cream of the crop.

Ron Fairly, Ellis Valentine, and Hubie Brooks look like (as much as you can tell from B-ref), solid above average major leaugers. I put them in order of what I thought was their ability (again, as much as one can infer something from just looking at offensive numbers - defensive insight is welcomed!).

And in the category of, I didn't notice him till this point in the research, but Rusty Staub (AWESOME NAME ALERT), gave them 3 stellar years at the beginning of their life. (69, 70, 71). They were actually 3 of his 4 best years overall for his career (full seasons only).

Seems like RF was a good position for the Expos.

John Northey - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#186382) #
Always was amazed by Boston's LF 3 HOF'ers (most likely) in a row who were developed and played their entire careers there.

For the Jays I'd say 1B is the best.  Mayberry to start, then Upshaw, then McGriff, then Olerud, then Delgado with Fielder being blocked by Upshaw/McGriff.  Overbay is decent but not in the class of the others.  What was amazing was the upgrade each time, Mayberry < Upshaw < McGriff < Olerud (at peak) < Delgado.  Nice streak.

Mick Doherty - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#186388) #

played their entire careers there.

John, I may be misunderstanding you, but I grew up in Ohio and can assure you that Ramirez does not fit that criteria. Half his (so far) career and 236 homers for the Indians!

Geoff - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#186389) #
Since John mentioned 3 LF in a row, I presume he must mean Williams>Yastrzemski>Rice ...thinking that Rice (most likely) will get in.

I don't want to wade into the argument about whether RIce will get in, but last go around in January he had recieved 72.2% of the vote falling just 2.8% short from baseball immortality.
Geoff - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 06:04 PM EDT (#186390) #
..and even detractors such as Sheehan concede that he is a "virtual certainty" to be elected next year.
John Northey - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#186391) #
Bingo Geoff - I was talking about the 3 HOF'ers in a row developed and staying in Boston.  Greenwell looked like a potential continuation of that streak but his career never really grew after his age 24 season (194 OPS+ after a 147 rookie season, then 120 lifetime in the end).  Ramirez is not part of that streak, he is a free agent who came via money not development.

To me it is far more impressive when an organization takes a kid, develops him, gets him to the majors and keeps him for his whole career than bringing in the best free agent to fill a hole.  A lot more fun as a fan too.

Craig B - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 10:16 PM EDT (#186392) #

First base for the Giants is good...

Roger Connor, Fred Merkle, George Kelly, Bill Terry, Johnny Mize, Orlando Cepeda, Willie McCovey, Will Clark.  Mize-McCovey-Cepeda-Terry are four solid Hall of Famers, plus you have Kelly who is in the Hall, Connor who is in the Hall, and Clark who maybe deserves to go one day.  That's depth.

Shortstop for the Browns/Orioles is also really good...

Bobby Wallace, Vern Stephens, Luis Aparicio, Mark Belanger, Cal Ripken, Mike Bordick, Miguel Tejada.

As is first base...

George Sisler, the very underrated George McQuinn, Jim Gentile, Boog Powell, Eddie Murray, Rafael Palmeiro

The Cubs have a great tradition at third base...

Cap Anson, Ed Williamson, Tom Burns (very underrated player), Harry Steinfeldt, Heinie Zimmerman hit the cover off the ball at third for Chicago, Stan Hack, Handsome Ransom Jackson, Ron Santo, Bill Madlock, Ron Cey, and now Aramis Ramirez.  Lots of good players with Hack and Santo anchoring the whole thing.

The Tigers, though, have more frontline strength in right field...

Sam Crawford, Ty Cobb, Harry Heilmann, Vic Wertz, Al Kaline, Kirk Gibson, and now Magglio Ordonez.

Craig B - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#186393) #

You know who has had great third basemen?  The A's.

Lave Cross, Jimmy Collins (OK, only two years), Home Run Baker, Pinky Higgins whose career got off to a HOF start in Philly before losing its way, Ed Charles, Sal Bando, Carney Lansford, Eric Chavez.  (I left out Scott Brosius and Wayne Gross for a reason).

Craig B - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#186394) #

Another team that you wouldn't think of when you think first basemen has had some good ones... the Rangers/Senators II

Mike Epstein, Mike Hargrove, Pete O'Brien, Will Clark, Raffy, Mark Teixeira, not bad in 47 years.

Paul D - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#186396) #
So what's the Jays best position?  CF - Moseby, White, Wells.  I wonder if Alomar alone is enough for 2b.  1b is strong, although I suppose most teams would have strong 1bs.  It seems easy to pick LF or RF, but I guess that makes sense, since it's usually easier to find corner OFs than middle IFs.
ChicagoJaysFan - Monday, June 02 2008 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#186397) #
So what's the Jays best position?  CF - Moseby, White, Wells.  I wonder if Alomar alone is enough for 2b.  1b is strong, although I suppose most teams would have strong 1bs.  It seems easy to pick LF or RF, but I guess that makes sense, since it's usually easier to find corner OFs than middle IFs

I know we've limited this to position players, but the best baseball position I think the Jays have been able to fill is the front of the rotation.

Stieb -> Hentgen -> Clemens -> Halladay

That's pretty much a continuous line from just after the Jays started where they've had their staff ace at least in the conversation for "best pitcher in baseball" (at least during their years at the front of the Toronto rotation)
Geoff - Tuesday, June 03 2008 @ 12:52 AM EDT (#186400) #
Some would turn their stomachs at the thought, but the A's have long struck me as having a good run of DHs -- I've long suspected they would stack up above the rest of the AL for most any period for the most dubious of positions, designated hitter.

It's been a revolving door, with guys like Thomas, Durazo, Jaha, Stairs, Berroa, Neel, Baines, Kingman, and Burroughs being the notables since the DH came in to effect.

Magpie - Tuesday, June 03 2008 @ 04:19 AM EDT (#186401) #
Shortstop for the Pirates is as good as it gets for the first half of the twentieth century - they started out with the greatest shortstop who ever lived, and eventually replaced Honus Wagner with Arky Vaughan, also a Hall of Famer, and a man who is probably one of the five greatest shortstops of all time himself. Even Glenn Wright, who helps bridge the gap from Wagner to Vaughan was a pretty good player.

But since Vaughan... yikes. Dick Groat was pretty good and somewhat mysteriously won an MVP, and so was Gene Alley. But otherwise it's a whole bunch of guys like Frank Taveras and Slammin' Sammy Khalifa.

Magpie - Tuesday, June 03 2008 @ 04:35 AM EDT (#186402) #
You can squeeze Rickey Henderson in there as well, he played CF in 85 and 86 for the Yanks.

There was another Hall of Famer known to play centre for the Yankees in those days. Never regularly, but that's where he was on August 4, 1983. Raining death on wandering sea birds. I was there!
Magpie - Tuesday, June 03 2008 @ 05:08 AM EDT (#186403) #
Because I like making the pretty pictures, here are the Jays first basemen through the years. The steady peaks are the McGriff and Delgado years, of course, although Olerud's big year shoots for the moon as well.

See Willie Upshaw slowly decline! See Eric Hinske fill in!

Photobucket
Calig23 - Wednesday, June 04 2008 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#186470) #
The Pirates have also had a pretty good collection of left-fielders: Fred Clarke, Max Carey for a few years before moving to CF, Ralph Kiner, Bob Skinner-decent but not great, Willie Stargell, Barry Bonds, Al Martin-decent, Brian Giles, and Jason Bay.

Four Hall of Famers, one future Hall of Famer, and one guy(Giles) who was a better hitter than many actual HoFers, though he himself will never get in

At one time, RF wasn't bad either, with guys like Paul Waner, Clemente, and Dave Parker. However, since Parker, it's been a pretty unimpressive revolving door.
What's Left is Right in Boston | 22 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.