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It's time, babies. It's time.

Time to wait until tomorrow...


On the last weekend in March, everyone was making moves to get down to the 25 man active roster. Seems like a good time to catch up with some old friends and acquaintances:

* Lord Voldemort will be the Dodgers fifth starter

* Chris Woodward signed a minor league with the Phillies after being released by the Yankees

* Jose Cruz Jr finds another employer. He's made the Astros.

* Bobby Kielty isn't sure he wants to go to Pawtucket and wait for the Red Sox to trade Coco Crisp.

* Aquilino Lopez opens the year in Detroit's bullpen.

* The Dude makes the cut - Eric Hinske will be the starting RF for Tampa later today

* Jason Smith optioned to the minors by Kansas City, along with Ryan Shealy and Hideo Nomo.

* Josh Towers was outrighted to AAA Colorado Springs

* Vinnie Chulk is on the DL in San Francisco

* Kelvim Escobar is on the DL in Anaheim, with a tear in his labrum. If he doesn't have surgery, he might be back in June or July.

* Jay Gibbons was released by Baltimore

* Woody Williams was released by Houston, says he intends to retire.



TDIB 31 March 2007: Game... Off? | 76 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
VBF - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 09:14 AM EDT (#181739) #
Hopefully this game can get in as Yankee Stadium has an 80% chance of rain after 1pm today. There's nothing worse than waiting six months, only to get rained out.
Noah - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 10:04 AM EDT (#181741) #
Blair is reporting that Stairs will sit today.  Stewart is going to get the start in left field batting 2nd in the lineup (assuming the game actually gets played).

He seems to think the injury is more serious than initially thought, hopefully he's wrong because it would suck to lose Stairs to the DL as well.  Especially since Gibbons seemed to indicate that the player who would get a callup in that situation would be Joe Inglett.



Chuck - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 10:18 AM EDT (#181743) #

I guess the rationale for Inglett, an infielder, replacing Stairs, an outfielder, is that Coates, an outfielder, is replacing Rolen, an infielder. Some kind of zen balancing technique, I guess.

A bench of Inglett, McDonald, Coates and Barajas... Is sarcasm superfluous?

greenfrog - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 10:26 AM EDT (#181744) #
Joe Inglett? Our bench is starting to resemble last year's sorry crew. I'm starting to miss Reed Johnson...
China fan - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 10:38 AM EDT (#181745) #

    And so the Adam Lind mystery deepens.   First the Jays choose to call up Coats instead of Lind.   Then Stairs goes down and the Jays disclose that they would prefer to call up Joe Inglett.  Two chances to call up Lind, two decisions to say no.

    According to the oracle of ZiPS, Lind should be able to slug .457 in the majors this year.  Is it possible that the Jays disagree?   Perhaps, rather than simply regressing to the mean this year as ZiPS would expect (which would mean that he would again be the Lind that we loved in 2006), it's possible that Lind might still be mired in some of the poor batting habits of last year, and the Jays want to make sure he has shaken those habits before they promote him.  Spring training is not enough to prove that he is the slugger we all loved in 2006.

timpinder - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#181746) #

I think the Jays just want Lind to play every day.  Stewart is fine offensively against both RHP and LHP (keeping him over Johnson is looking like the right move now).  Lind needs to prove he's back and hit in AAA for at least the first month or two before he'll be summoned to play fulltime in LF, in my opinion.  If Rios doesn't sign his name within the next two hours, Lind's chances of being the LF of the future for the Jays will likely improve, too.

Could Stairs' injury be a $10 million blessing in disguise?  It might facilitate the arrival of Lind, and hitting doesn't affect his hip, so could we see a platoon at DH if Thomas struggles against RHP early on? 

Leigh - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#181747) #
Eric Hinske will be the starting RF for Tampa

Did Johnny Gomes:
(a) get injured;
(b) get the nod at DH, or
(c) run over Madden's dog?
Chuck - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#181748) #

I though I read somewhere that the answer was (d) both are healthy and Hinske simply was chosen over Gomes.

Funny that a team with 9 outfielders in 2007 finds themselves with Hinske in the starting lineup in 2008.

Dez - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#181749) #
Hey, does anyone know a good place to watch the game around Yonge and Bloor?  I'm at work at a client but I have a 'doctor's appointment' at 1.
FranklyScarlet - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#181750) #
Or, did Gomes get suspended for running in from right field to protect his second baseman when Duncan plowed him over??


Samir - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#181751) #
Anyone know where I can listen to/watch games over the interweb without paying the outrageous mlb.tv prices? I moved to England a few months ago but would really like to enjoy baseball this summer. Radio stream would be just fine, I know fan590 doesn't do it :(
chengy - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#181752) #
If I were Tampa Bay, I'd feel a little concerned about that Delmon Young trade. Garza better pan out for them.
Ryan Day - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#181753) #
There's also option e), which is that Gomes has been a pretty mediocre hitter for the last two years and has only slightly more defensive value than Frank Thomas.

I get the idea that Lind should play regularly, but a) when your top left-handed bat goes down, Lind's the only viable replacement, and b) the International League in April is not exactly friendly to a regular, uninterrupted schedule.

Noah - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#181754) #
If the game gets cancelled today because of the rain, will it be played tomorrow (scheduled off day)?



Chuck - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#181755) #
If the game gets cancelled today because of the rain, will it be played tomorrow (scheduled off day)?

I believe this is the specific point of off-days so early in the season.
Excalabur - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#181756) #
Nope.  At least, not consistently.  MLBAM is pretty on-the-ball shutting down unauthorised broadcasts over the webs: that is, everyone that isn't them. 
AndrewK used to use MLBTV, and the radio feed from MLB is pretty cheap if you just want audio. 

I'd love to be allowed to pay for MLBTV and get Jays games, but I live in canada so it's unallowed.  Boo.

Rich - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#181757) #
Samir, in the past CJCS in Stratford has carried live audio: http://www.cjcsradio.com/.  You can often get video streams at http://www.myp2p.eu, though you will need to install some free software like SopCast or TvAnts, both of which are available on that site.  The site is based in Asia and simply offers links to existing streams.  It does not offer its own streams from its server.  This is how I often watch the Jays or English soccer when I can't get a game here (I don't have Sportsnet).  hope this helps.
natan79 - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#181758) #

Anyone know where I can listen to/watch games over the interweb without paying the outrageous mlb.tv prices? I moved to England a few months ago but would really like to enjoy baseball this summer. Radio stream would be just fine, I know fan590 doesn't do it :(

You can sign up for Gameday Audio at MLB.com.  It's $14.95 for the year.

VBF - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#181759) #
The weather tomorrow doesn't look much better, so it's possible that they'll try and cram this game in.




Dave Rutt - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#181760) #
Hey, does anyone know a good place to watch the game around Yonge and Bloor? I'm at work at a client but I have a 'doctor's appointment' at 1.

If you have enough energy to venture down to (just north of) Yonge and College, Hoops has about 8 million TV's, including one in every booth.
Magpie - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#181761) #
Did Johnny Gomes:
(a) get injured;
(b) get the nod at DH, or
(c) run over Madden's dog?

No, No, Maybe. And to all of which one could add
(d) have you ever seen Jonny Gomes play the outfield?

Maddon has never seemed to think very highly of Gomes. It does look like a platoon arrangement, at least to start the year.
Gwyn - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#181762) #
Dez:  If you walk north on Yonge and turn down the first street on the left there are a couple of bars down there.  The Pilot (or something like that) has a few TVs behind the bar that usually have sports on.

Samir:  I use a site called myp2p.eu to watch cricket, I've seen spring training baseball games on there too, it might be worth a try, the quality can be in and out but Ive found the cricket games usually of a watchable standard.

Chuck - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#181763) #
Are Hinske and the heckler buddies now?
China fan - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#181764) #

   The Rios contract deadline has been extended by a few days, according to MacLeod on the Globe's baseball blog a few minutes ago.  Apparently they're too close to a deal to walk away from it now.  Sounds like the deal will get done, even if takes a few more days.

 

Dave Rutt - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#181766) #
Roger Lajoie of the Fan will "be surprised if the Detroit Tigers don't win 110 games", and then followed that up by referring to Dustin as "McCowan". Let's hope Herbal Magic ensures Wilner doesn't need any time off this year.
Dave Rutt - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#181767) #
Speaking of Wilner, he just told us that the game will be delayed by about an hour and a half, but they are going to try to squeeze it in since the forecast tomorrow is even worse.
Mike D - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 12:40 PM EDT (#181768) #

A bench of Inglett, McDonald, Coates and Barajas... Is sarcasm superfluous?

In baseball circa 2008, you can't have a promising bench with two starters on on the DL, unless you decide to platoon and both platoon partners are healthy.  In fact, it's a credit to JP's offseason that none of the above-mentioned four are starting today.

Still, yikes.  I would be delighted with a 3-3 start to the season.

Magpie - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#181770) #
Here's my best Opening Day news. Roger Angell can still bring it. The man is 87 years old, and this is from the current New Yorker:

If we fans need an image to connect us to the departing era, I would pass up the tarnished Clemens or the unpleasant Bonds and, looking back five years, focus, rather, on some imagined Class AAA infielder who has just been called up to a major-league team as a midseason defensive replacement. He doesn’t have to carry his bags anymore, but at twenty-seven he’s a gloveman with a lifetime .269 average who will now be looking at world-famous sliders and heat. Sitting a couple of lockers away there’s a celebrated but tired-looking shortstop in his late thirties, with two gated-community houses, a nanny, a nutritionist, a trainer, a motivational coach, two lawyers, a divorced wife, three foreign-marque cars, an agent, two chefs, and a part-time veterinarian on his payroll. Our rookie may be competing against this icon for a steady job next spring, but for that to happen he’ll need two additional base hits a week, starting right now. The word “Help!” floats into his head, perhaps from not far away.

Baseball, we’ve discovered once again, is always better as a sample of American business life than as a place for moral lessons. It’s still the national pastime. 

Is it too much to hope he keeps writing about the game forever?

costanza - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#181771) #
Well, at least the delay will allow Sportsnet to have a "pre-game show" of some sort.  I can't believe that, while the Detroit FOX station just finished a 4-hour pregame show, Sportsnet couldn't even squeeze in half an hour (can't bump the World Pool championships!)...  for the last Opening Day at Yankee Stadium, no less!
natan79 - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#181772) #
the FAN 590 has its usual great pregame coverage
Pistol - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#181773) #
they are going to try to squeeze it in since the forecast tomorrow is even worse.

Looking at the radar it looks like it'll be clear once they start.  Good news in the US - Shulman is announcing on ESPN.  Bad news - Kruk is providing 'analysis'.
Mike Green - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#181774) #
I guess, Dez, that your doctor's appointment was delayed.  It must have been raining clients in surgery.

I thought that the Rays plan was to platoon Cliff Floyd and Jonny Gomes in right, pending Baldelli's return.  Hinske was smoking this spring, so I guess Maddon is from the "ride the hot hand" school.

daryn - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#181775) #

***** Rant Alert*****

I don't get how come everyone says the Jays have improved so much.

Who did they add? Eckstein, Scurtaro, Stewart and Barajas.
(did I miss someone, are you counting Randy Wells? BJ Ryan?)

Sure they added Rolen, and took away Glaus, everyone knows that's a wash, unless Rolen stays healthy!....
(HE'S NOT HEALTHY)

Lets get real, predicting that the Jays will do better this year, means predicting that everyone on the team that played badly last year, will play better and be healthier, and everyone that played fabulous gets no worse and that no one important gets hurt this year.

Not a good bet.
I'd like to see better, but I'm betting on the same old same old.

 

Dez - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#181776) #
Damn rain.  I figure I have to be back before my manager leaves so that he can see that I'm gonna work late.  Hopefully once it gets started, it goes quick.  BTW, thanks for the tips on where to go.  I ended up at Hoops.
MondesiRules - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#181778) #

Here you go Dez:  One of them is bound to work.  Works for me all the time:

http://radiotime.com/Search.aspx?AffiliateId=37940&AffiliateType=station

 

greenfrog - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 01:50 PM EDT (#181779) #
I don't get how come everyone says the Jays have improved so much.

- Wells, Overbay and AJ are healthy
- BJ is (almost) back
- Better infield defense (when Rolen returns)
- Middle finger aside, Rolen appears to be healthy
- No more OBP sinkholes in the lineup
- League is back and throwing well
- Significantly more bench depth (although it's been temporarily depleted)
- Doc no longer has an appendix
- With the addition of Rolen and Eckstein, more accountability and leadership (I'm hoping)
- More balanced lineup (better numbers against RHP)

I do think the loss of Janssen will hurt the club, but there are definitely reasons for optimism.
timpinder - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#181780) #
You forgot to add that Ohka, Zambrano and Towers won't be making any starts this year.
seeyou - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#181781) #
More on the Rios extension deadline, um, extension from Jordan Bastian.  Sounds like it's just the formalities that are left now. 

The part of the article I'm most happy with, though, is that Riccardi is indicating that the extension would have no opt-out clause.
Chuck - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#181782) #

Lots of needless hookey today. The game is washed out.

Meanwhile, Miguel Cabrera has smacked dinger #1 of his AL career.

Dez - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#181785) #
any word on whether sportsnet will carry tomorrow's make up game?  or the rogers preview channel or something?
Sanjay - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#181786) #

60 Minutes did a piece on Bill James and Sabermetrics.

Just watched it over here at: http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/153/baseball_by_bill_james

Anders - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#181787) #
Rob Neyer's a believer of sorts.

SportsNation Rob Neyer: (2:05 PM ET ) I think the Blue Jays have a legitimate shot, because their rotation and their defense are outstanding, and Vernon Wells is poised for a nice big bounce. Rolen going down obviously doesn't help, though.




unclejim - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#181788) #
For a little dose of schauenfreude, Hinske's first at bat for the Rays was a nice grounder into a double play to kill an innings... 

He's now players for the Sox, Rays and Jays... what are the odds he finishes his career with some bats for Yankees and Orioles ? 

Hmm, has any player ever played for all the teams in one division over the course of a career ?  Sounds unlikely...

Dewey - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#181789) #
Thanks for the New Yorker link, Magpie.  Roger Angell is amazing.  He's got to be one of the two or three best writers on the game, ever.  And he's 87 now! 
ramone - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#181790) #
Hinske redeemed himself launching a homer, 4-2 rays.
John Northey - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#181791) #
Lots of reasons to believe, but one has to wonder just what PECOTA is using for its projections for the Jays. I know it has always been down on Hill (although it did call Adams going down, just not as far down as he went) and appears to be down on a lot of Jays this year. I don't subscribe to B-P so I can't see who they use for comparisons.

One of these days I have to write up a piece on the core of PECOTA and many modern projection systems. Namely the height and weight part, which on the surface appears to be a good idea but I have a feeling it falls apart when dug into along with the comparisons of players from different time frames at the same age.
Chuck - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#181792) #

Joy in Marlins land? Mark Hendrickson is their opening day starter and Luis "first to third" Gonzalez is playing right field. I guess this will be one of the years that they don't win a World Series.

timpinder - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#181793) #

There's lots of talk about Thomas and his 376 plate appearances in Blair's blogs.  Blair thinks Thomas looked "awful" in spring training, but expects Thomas to be sensitive about his playing time since he wants to play until he's 41.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/baseball

With Stairs' hip injury, an injury he described as one that "might be a little bit more intense than the one last year", affecting his running but not his hitting, I can't see him making it through the 110+ games in LF against right-handed starters.  Thomas had an OPS of .796 against RHP last year and looked even worse in spring training this year, while Stairs has a career OPS of .867 against RHP.  A strong first month or two by Lind in AAA might muddy the water even further.  Personally I'd like to see the Jays play whoever gives them the best chance to WIN, regardless of money or feelings, but I am very interested to see how this plays out.

Thoughts?

As for Rios, I'm really glad to hear that this deal is likely to get done and I'm also happy that there isn't going to be an opt-out clause.  That's always a lose-lose situation for the team.

daryn - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#181794) #
Hey... good to chat

I'm not going to cut-and-paste Greenfrog's reply to my post because I don't want to argue line-by-line. I'm just "talking"

But doesn't it show my point?
The whole "the Jays added a lot this year" argument seems to come down to.
1) guys that were hurt last year won't be hurt this year, even though come of them still are
2) Rolen will have a healthy year, even though we don't know he will and he's on the DL right now
and
3) in addition to injury prevention, guys like Eck, League, Scutaro and Barajas can turn a 83 Win team into a 95 Win team.

I don't see it
Its not like they added a premier free agent like a Tori Hunter or Dontrelle Willis, or ????


HollywoodHartman - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 06:18 PM EDT (#181795) #
I have to echo Dez's question on whether RSN is carrying the new opener. Any insight is appreciated.
Mike D - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 06:24 PM EDT (#181796) #

According to TSN's website, TSN is carrying the new opener tomorrow night.

And for those of you who want to waste an inordinate amount of time looking at gorgeous pictures of not-so-gorgeous uniforms, ballparks, etc. of the '70s...you've been warned.

daryn - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#181797) #
I don't see it

that being said, sure would be nice if the predictions work out
scottt - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#181798) #
Didn't take long for the loss of Rodney to cost Detroit a win. Their current bullpen does not look very good.

I'm curious to see if Bedard will be better in the opener than he was in spring training. Seattle paid a lot for him.

jsut - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#181799) #
I'm amused by the dual meltdown of Wood and Gagne in the Cubs Brewers game
timpinder - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#181801) #

It'll be on TSN if there's actually a game.  The forecast in New York looks even worse tomorrow though:
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/usny0996

I'm dying for baseball, but I'd rather the Jays play their games against New York with Stairs in the lineup, and if it's rescheduled for another series entirely, Rolen too.

Wilner made a good point on his "rain delay" show, and that was that the MLB opening series' should be played in stadiums with roofs or in warmer climates whenever possible.  (I.e., Seattle in Texas, New York in Toronto, Baltimore in Tampa Bay, Minnesota in LA, etc.  Not the other way around).  I hadn't thought of that before he mentioned it.

Rob - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#181802) #
Hmm, has any player ever played for all the teams in one division over the course of a career ?

Matt Herges and Steve Finley. Maybe Mark McLemore if you relax the definition. And the Orioles are waiting by the phone if Canseco calls.
Jdog - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 08:18 PM EDT (#181803) #
I also believe our old friend  Royce Clayton was mentioned to have played for all of the NL West teams at one point.
Rob - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#181805) #
I also believe our old friend  Royce Clayton was mentioned to have played for all of the NL West teams at one point.

Unfortunately, Royce is 3-for-5.

Unfortunately, Royce is 3-for-5. Unfortunately...Royce is 3-for-5--no, still sounds weird.
King Ryan - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#181806) #
- Wells, Overbay and AJ are healthy
- BJ is (almost) back

This is probably the most common error that people make when making predictions.  Everyone who was hurt last year will be healthy!

No.  Injuries are a part of the game and the Jays could easily have as many injuries this year as they did last year.
sweat - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#181810) #

Injuries are part of the game, but sometimes things go better and guys like macdonald, stewart and stairs are injured instead of doc, wells and overbay.

Last year the Canadiens(my hockey team of choice) were devestated by injury.  This year they are under 100 man games.  I can't find the stats for last year but I'm pretty sure it was over 300. 

I choose to hope for a healthy great year, and I would rather be wrong in my thinking that we have a legitimate chance this year.  I don't expect no injuries, i just hope that they are limited to short stretches and to more easily replaced players.

ChicagoJaysFan - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#181811) #
No.  Injuries are a part of the game and the Jays could easily have as many injuries this year as they did last year.

I agree, but I think the Jays depth is much improved this year.

Scutaro and Eckstein versus Clayton and Jason Smith is a pretty big upgrade on that front. 
Stewart, an older Lind, and Coates provide better outfield depth than Reed Johnson, a younger Lind, and John-Ford Griffin.
Barajas, an older Thigpen, and Diaz provide better depth than Philips, Fasano, and a younger Thigpen.

On the pitching side, I like our bullpen depth a lot more right now, but our starting pitching depth isn't as good.  Thankfully, I think our 1-5 are improved, so that should help.

I don't like the Jays as favorites or anything, but they were an 87 win team according to Pythagorean last year.  Since 94 wins is playoff territory, I think their improved depth, combined with a little bit better health, and some luck, and the Jays have a shot at getting 94.
Shane - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#181813) #

From Goldman's chat today over at Prospectus....

Tony (Brooklyn, NY): Sheehan thinks that Toronto is more than a mockery of a contender. I don't, but I can see how Ricciardi could have been lulled into putting this team together, having Halladay, Rios, Wells come up together. What do you think?

Steven Goldman: Well, the problem is that Riccardi has made some poor drafting decisions that have set them back, and what they have drafted hasn't developed, at least on the hitting side. There is nothing wrong with the Jays that about 1.75 good hitters wouldn't cure, but over the last several years they just haven't been able to come up with that guy. And as good as Vernon Wells was at 24, I don't think there was a reasonable expectation of his having too many more seasons like that based on his plate judgment. Even if they had guessed right on him, by himself he wasn't enough. Since Delgado left they've really needed a big, pure, home run bat.

CaramonLS - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#181815) #
I don't like the Jays as favorites or anything, but they were an 87 win team according to Pythagorean last year.

Come on now, that is a Paper Tiger argument more than anything.  We both know why the Jays underachieved according to Mr. Pythagoras.
Ryan Day - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 10:43 PM EDT (#181816) #
Injuries are a part of the game and the Jays could easily have as many injuries this year as they did last year.

Sure they could. And if their ace, #2 starter, closer, catcher, first baseman, third baseman, and centre fielder all see significant time on the DL, they have no chance of contending.

Of course, you can say the same thing for just about every other team in baseball, too. There are a handful of teams that might have the resources to recover, but not many.
ChicagoJaysFan - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#181819) #

Come on now, that is a Paper Tiger argument more than anything.  We both know why the Jays underachieved according to Mr. Pythagoras.

It's not a paper tiger, it's using Pythagorean as what it's designed for: simplifying and quickening things.  I believe, as most probably do, that the Jays underperformed versus Pythagorean projections due to an overabundance of runs against lefties and an underabundance against righties.

My entire post was about their improved depth, and in Pythagorean, this depth comes up again.  Pretty much all of those players that I named in that last commment dramatically improve the team's depth (and starting 9) against righties.
timpinder - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:27 PM EDT (#181822) #

I'm with ChicagoJF.  Injuries will happen, but this team is much better equipped to handle them.  I also agree that injuries sometimes happen a lot worse some years than others, whether it's the caliber of player that goes down, the amount of time they're out or the number of players injured at once.  Boston had a bad year in 2006 (and the Jays finished ahead of them), then had a lucky year in 2007, where a lot of guys with a history of injuries stayed healthy for the entire year, more or less.  Other than Burnett, the Jays don't really have anybody on the roster who is chronically injured, except maybe Rolen, but his injuries are confined to the last three years and all stem from a single shoulder injury caused by a collision, which he looks to be over after the scar tissue was removed last fall.

scottt - Monday, March 31 2008 @ 11:28 PM EDT (#181823) #
It's not so much a question of having less injuries than last year as having less injuries than Boston and NY.

I don't see any teams in the division with pitching depth, or even infield depth.

Manny and Ortiz hit 34 less homerun in 2007 than in 2006, so the pure homerun hitters aren't essential if the lineup doesn't have holes.

The best time to play the Yankees is when their pitching is struggling and out of the gate might be as good a time as any. In the other hand, I'm not too anxious to see how Burnett will fare against them without his out pitch.



Glevin - Tuesday, April 01 2008 @ 01:02 AM EDT (#181824) #

"Manny and Ortiz hit 34 less homerun in 2007 than in 2006, so the pure homerun hitters aren't essential if the lineup doesn't have holes"

What? Are you saying that Ortiz and Manny aren't big bats because they hit fewer HRs last year than the year before? Ortiz slugged .621 last year. The Jays have NOT had a hitter like those two since Delgado and the big bat is something they are missing. They have no one scary in the lineup.

"Scutaro and Eckstein versus Clayton and Jason Smith is a pretty big upgrade on that front. 
Stewart, an older Lind, and Coates provide better outfield depth than Reed Johnson, a younger Lind, and John-Ford Griffin.
Barajas, an older Thigpen, and Diaz provide better depth than Philips, Fasano, and a younger Thigpen."

The problem here is that if you come out with it straight, adding Eckstein, Scutaro, Stewart, and Barajas, and Rolen for Johnson, Clayton, Thigpen, Glaus etc...is not much of an improvement. These are peripheral players. Teams don't vastly improve by adding a slightly better backup catcher.

"Injuries will happen, but this team is much better equipped to handle them."

The Jays opening day 3Bman will be Marco Scutoro and LFer will be Stewart. That's weak. The Jays do not have a good bench or a good system which is a problem when you are an injury-prone team with mediocre offense anyway.

scottt - Tuesday, April 01 2008 @ 06:51 AM EDT (#181827) #
What? Are you saying that Ortiz and Manny aren't big bats because they hit fewer HRs last year than the year before? Ortiz slugged .621 last year. The Jays have NOT had a hitter like those two since Delgado and the big bat is something they are missing. They have no one scary in the lineup.

Manny slugged
.493 last year, Thomas was .480. What really put Boston over was  the performance of Youkillis (in the first half) and Lowell batting around them. Toronto can get the same time of numbers from Overbay and Rolen if they're healthy.

Manny slugged .619 and Ortiz .636 in 2006 yet that's the year they finished in third place.


ChicagoJaysFan - Tuesday, April 01 2008 @ 08:34 AM EDT (#181828) #
The problem here is that if you come out with it straight, adding Eckstein, Scutaro, Stewart, and Barajas, and Rolen for Johnson, Clayton, Thigpen, Glaus etc...is not much of an improvement. These are peripheral players. Teams don't vastly improve by adding a slightly better backup catcher.

Agreed - they don't vastly improve by just adding a backup catcher.

But Lind, Clayton, Philips, Thigpen, Adams, and Smith totaled 836 at bats last year.  If we're expecting similar health to last year, that means that dramatically improving each of those spots (15 to 20 points of OPS+) is about the same as improving 1.5 starters.  If we're considering the case where we have improved health, then the Jays improvement is even more dramatic as it will be people in our starting 9 getting the at bats.
Mike D - Tuesday, April 01 2008 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#181840) #

But Lind, Clayton, Philips, Thigpen, Adams, and Smith totaled 836 at bats last year.  If we're expecting similar health to last year, that means that dramatically improving each of those spots (15 to 20 points of OPS+) is about the same as improving 1.5 starters.  If we're considering the case where we have improved health, then the Jays improvement is even more dramatic as it will be people in our starting 9 getting the at bats.

Don't forget the 201 innings pitched by Towers, Ohka, Chacin and Zambrano.

John Northey - Tuesday, April 01 2008 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#181845) #
Don't forget the 201 innings pitched by Towers, Ohka, Chacin and Zambrano

C'mon, can't I forget those ever happened? Please? Pretty please?

But in the end the key question for the staff is how many starts for each of the big 5. Halladay had 31 last year, McGowan 27 (more than I thought), 25 each for AJ and Marcum, and 20 for Litsch.

So we had 128 starts for our big 5, an average of 26 starts each (well, 25.6 if you are picky). Shift to 28 starts each and that takes 12 games out of the 'ugh' category. 30 each and we'd be up to 22. 30 is dreaming of course but 28 is possible. 12 games allowing about 2 runs less per game and that is 2 1/2 wins right there. Of course, if things go south...
uglyone - Tuesday, April 01 2008 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#181849) #

I'm not sure some here are acknowledging just how many at bats the jays were forced to waste on offensive black holes last season.

J.McDonald '07: 327ab, 1hr, 31rbi, .251avg, .279obp, .333lsg, .612ops
A.Lind '07: 290ab, 11hr, 46rbi, .238avg, .278obp, .400slg, .678ops
R.Johnson '07: 275ab, 2hr, 14rbi, .235avg, .305obp, .320slg, .625ops
R.Clayton '07: 189ab, 1hr, 12rbi, .254avg, .304obp, .344slg, .648ops
J.Phillips '07: 144ab, 1hr, 12rbi, .208avg, .269obp, .278slg, .547ops
C.Thigpen '07: 101ab, 0hr, 11rbi, .238avg, .294obp, .287slg, .581ops
R.Adams '07: 60ab, 2hr, 12rbi, .233avg, .313obp, .383slg, .697ops
J.Smith '07: 52ab, 0hr, 4rbi, .212avg, .267obp, .269slg, .537ops
R.Olmedo '07: 51ab, 0hr, 1rbi, .216avg, .245obp, .294slg, .539ops
H.Clark '07: 49ab, 0he, 2rbi, .204avg, .298obp, .245slg, .543ops
S.Fasano '07: 45ab, 1hr, 4rbi, .178avg, .229obp, .311slg, .540ops
H.Luna '07: 42ab, 1hr, 4rbi, .167avg, .217obp, .238slg, .455ops

Total At Bats For These Guys: 1625
Total At Bats For Whole Team: 5536


So that's 29.4% of our at bats last year that went to these guys, that's 29.4% of our offense there which posted an OPS of around .600 overall last year.

Of these players, only McDonald - whose at bats should drop drastically into the 100 range, and Lind - who won't be getting at bats unless he's hitting better than he did last year, are still with the team. 

This year, the vast majority of those at bats should be filled by these guys:


D.Eckstein 3-yr: 1564ab, .297avg, .357obp, .375slg, .732ops
S.Stewart 3-yr: 1301ab, .284avg, .336obp, .388slg, .724ops
R.Barajas 3-yr: 876ab, .251avg, .310obp, .434slg, .744ops
M.Scutaro 3-yr: 1084ab, .257avg, .331obp, .384slg, .715ops

That's almost 1/3 of our total offense that we should realistically expect a .100+ point improvement in OPS.

And that's not even considering that our starters may be healthier this year (likely, even), which means many of those at bats should be replaced by even better performances from starting players.

o even if our Starters are just as injured and have just as many off-years as occurred last year, the team should still see a significant bump offensively.

AWeb - Tuesday, April 01 2008 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#181869) #
There's some great optimistic information, thank you. I made a similar point in another thread about just the backup catchers, and how much a difference Barajas might make alone. Realistically, the Jays might need to call on the services of a few similar players this year, and McDonald is still going to get some ABs, but those 1625 at bats with an OPS of .613 (a quick estimate, not looking up PAs for proper weighting)...well, the Jays should at a minimum be replacing half of those at bats with something quite a bit better, as uglyone says.  McDonald was obviously a great defender last year, and Lind/Johnson were solid OFs, but the bottom names on the list weren't adding much defensive prowess either. 

In 2004 Toronto had a similar offense (11th), and improved by 56 runs in 2005 (to 5th in the league), without anyone having a great year (aside from Menechino), mostly by replacing bad with reasonable. Adams replaced Gomez at SS, Koskie replaced Hinske at 3B, Johnson/Catalanotto replaced themselves by being better, Josh Phelps was replaced by Hill and Hillenbrand. Woodward, Cash, Berg, Clark, well, they just didn't get to play in 2005 for Toronto. Adding 50-60 runs this year gets Toronto to a playoff run, assuming the pitching/defense doesn't get much worse.
Alex Obal - Tuesday, April 01 2008 @ 06:32 PM EDT (#181873) #
Solid post, ugly.

I failed to list a prediction in the roundtable. I'm very optimistic though, largely for the same reason. I'm gonna sneak in under the wire and predict 91 wins while nobody is looking. How this team responds to the inevitable A.J. Burnett injury is going to be the turning point in the season. Obviously we don't have a great #6 starter on paper, but youneverknow. If someone from the minors steps up and fills the void ably, the Jays contend. If that someone is David Purcey, watch out.
timpinder - Tuesday, April 01 2008 @ 06:51 PM EDT (#181874) #
I think it's going to come down to when Burnett has his injury.  If it's early, Ricciardi is going to turn to Camp or Parrish, maybe Wells.  If it's a couple of months into the season, one of former 1st round lefties in AA or AAA may have had a couple of months to prove themselves (Purcey or Romero).  Like you say, if it's Purcey, and the start of the season last year before his injury and the AFL after the injury were the real deal, look out.  Mike Green's been the biggest Purcey fan, I hope he's right.
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