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Nomar Garciaparra was one of the “Holy Trinity” of shortstops of the late 90s, with Jeter and A-Rod. All were considered at the time to be likely Hall of Famers. Unfortunately for Nomar, the early part of this decade has not been kind to his chances, and 2004 continued the trend. He hit well enough for a 30 year old Hall of Fame candidate shortstop, .308/.365/.477, but he was traded by the Red Sox to the Cubs in a 4 team trade at the deadline. It will undoubtedly will be remembered that the Sox went on to their first Series win in over 80 years after the trade.

Nomar was drafted by Boston with the 12th pick of the first round of the 1994 draft. He played a month of high A ball in 1994, followed by a year of double A in 1995. He was a solid hitter, but with little power. In 1996, he developed power at triple A Pawtucket- slamming 16 homers in 172 at-bats while hitting .343, and had an impressive cup of coffee at the end of the year in Boston. He emerged in 1997 as the Rookie of the Year, followed it up by a fine year in 1998 and was absolutely great in 1999-2000. Unfortunately for him, his greatness was masked to some degree by the amazing performance of Pedro Martinez, who pitched better than any pitcher ever has during those same years for that same ballclub. It will be remembered that Pedro left Boston after their World Series triumph in 2004. Nomar’s offensive performance from 2001-2004 has been very good, but at nowhere near the level of his 1999-2000 peak.

Nomar’s defence had always been considered solid, but not outstanding, and his statistics reflected this. But, the Red Sox gave his defence as a reason for the trade in 2004, and his zone rating did in fact plummet into the hazardous zone in 2004. As he turned 31 in July, this was not entirely a shock, although the fall was so precipitous that one guesses that a recovery is possible.. Nomar has been a fine post-season performer, posting a cool .323/.391/.625 line in 5 series.

So, without further ado, here’s a chart of comparables:

Player         G     AB     H    HR     W     BA    OBP   SLUG   OPS+
Nomar 1029 4133 1330 182 295 .322 .370 .549 133
Banks 1216 4670 1355 298 452 .290 .353 .552 138
Stephens 1412 5481 1588 224 598 .290 .360 .474 124
Cronin 1363 5108 1539 80 653 .301 .383 .453 114
Vaughan 1539 5763 1846 86 829 .329 .410 .460 138


The interesting comparison is Banks. Banks to this stage in his career was slightly better than Garciaparra, and more importantly had played signficantly more games. Banks had very modest value in his 30s as an average first baseman. But, Ernie Banks had garnered more fame than Garciaparra in his 20s by virtue of the back-to-back MVP awards, although his team had much less success than Nomar's.

If Garciaparra can put in 3 more good seasons as a shortstop, and then finish his career in his late 30s at some other position, one would think that he would be Hall-worthy, and likely to be admitted. If he does not, my guess is that he will likely not be admitted, with the record of his teams, the decline in his defence, and the shortness of his career being key factors.

My own view is that he was a great, great player, and that he should be admitted unless his career is very short. Joe Cronin, Vern Stephens and Alan Trammell were all significantly lesser hitters than Nomar and about even with the glove, but I think they all should be in. Cronin is the only one of the three who is, so far.

For today's Green projection method, we hope for a sweet New Year with a mocha sauce. Melt 2 pieces of semi-sweet chocolate, add a teaspoon of ground coffee, inhale and pronounce:

Nomar's final statistics: 1800 games, 270 homers, .305/.360/.515.

You may now pour the mocha sauce over vanilla ice cream.

Next up: Derek Jeter.
Hall Watch 2004- The Shortstops-Nomar Garciaparra | 29 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_David C - Monday, December 27 2004 @ 10:24 PM EST (#6274) #
Garciapara is a hacker that gets by on his superb athleticism. Once he loses a bit of bat speed his average with go south & with it his hall of fame candidacy. At this point I would say that Tejada has a better shot at the hall that Nomah.
_CaramonLS - Monday, December 27 2004 @ 10:34 PM EST (#6275) #
Just curious why isn't Torre being considered for the HOF with his career numbers?

I was just looking through some of the BBreference comparables and his name pops up.
Pistol - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 09:02 AM EST (#6276) #
Nomar was drafted by Boston with the 12th pick of the first round of the 1994 draft. He played a month of high A ball in 1994, followed by a year of double A in 1995. He was a solid hitter, but with little power.

Aaron Hill, age 22, AA season - .279/.368/.410

Nomar, age 22, AA season - .267/.332/.384

The end result is certainly unknown, but so far Aaron Hill is on a very similar career path.
Pistol - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 09:16 AM EST (#6277) #
the Red Sox gave his defence as a reason for the trade in 2004, and his zone rating did in fact plummet into the hazardous zone in 2004. As he turned 31 in July, this was not entirely a shock, although the fall was so precipitous that one guesses that a recovery is possible.

It was his achilles that was injured so this makes sense. How much his defense recovers is probably the same as how much his achilles recovers.
_Eric - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 11:56 AM EST (#6278) #
Aaron Hill, age 22, AA season - .279/.368/.410

Nomar, age 22, AA season - .267/.332/.384

The end result is certainly unknown, but so far Aaron Hill is on a very similar career path.


Adam Everett, age 22, AA season - .263/.356/.385

I like Aaron a bunch myself, but with this and Coach drawing a comparison to Jeff Kent a little while ago, some folks around here need to calm down just a little about the kid.
Mike Green - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 11:57 AM EST (#6279) #
Aaron Hill, age 22, AA season - .279/.368/.410

Nomar, age 22, AA season - .267/.332/.384

The end result is certainly unknown, but so far Aaron Hill is on a very similar career path


As I mentioned in an earlier piece, Hill's numbers were quite comparable to Jeff Kent's in Knoxville, as well. The suggestion made by some that Hill does not have a "high ceiling" is puzzling to me.

Just curious why isn't Torre being considered for the HOF with his career numbers?

Torre's HoF case (as a player) is a lot like Ted Simmons': more than enough O for a catcher, but poor D. It would be a real surprise to me if Torre did not go in eventually in some capacity, taking into account his playing and managerial contributions.
Mike Green - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 12:01 PM EST (#6280) #
Eric, I did not read your post before posting mine. None of us are saying that Aaron Hill will progress as Nomar or Kent did. He might indeed progress as Everett has. What we are saying is that the "modest ceiling" description doesn't really fit.
_Eric - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 12:17 PM EST (#6281) #
What we are saying is that the "modest ceiling" description doesn't really fit.

Understood now, and I do agree.
_Moffatt - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 12:27 PM EST (#6282) #
I like Aaron a bunch myself, but with this and Coach drawing a comparison to Jeff Kent a little while ago

IIRC, Coach was quoting JP on the Kent comparison, though I may be mistaken.
_Magpie - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 12:54 PM EST (#6283) #
Garciapara is a hacker that gets by on his superb athleticism.

I was thinking that one of the intersting things that has happened with Garciaparra concerns his plate discipline. His walks per plate appearances improved steadily each year from the moment he entered the majors. He walked just 4.3 times per 100 plate appearances in his initial 1996 call-up, but he increased that ratio every year until he had it up to 10.2 walks per 100 PAs by 2000. By this point he was drawing more walks (61) then he was striking out.

And then I looked more carefully at his numbers, and... oh darn! The improvement in his plate discipline never really happened. He wasn't drawing more walks - he was receiving more walks - 7 IBB in 1999 and 20 IBB in 2000. He has been walked intentionally just seven times in the last four seasons combined, which is why his "plate disclipline" has come back to earth. Oh well!

Do free swingers not retain their effectiveness as hitters as long as more disciplined hitters? That's an interesting question. As a hitter, Garciaparra has always reminded me a little of Al Simmons who had his last really outstanding year at age 32. Clemente and Puckett were both hackers, and they were both pretty good right to the end - not as good as they had been, but good enough to play the OF.

If he can stay reasonably healthy, Garciaparra seems likely to end up with 2500 hits minimum, a couple of batting titles, and a slew of all-star appearances. He's turned in only six full seasons, but he has at least 190 hits in all six of them. He's probably not going to hit .372 again, but in half a season last year he hit .308 with 9 HRs. He's probably a mortal cinch for the HoF unless he stops hitting right now, and that doesn't seem likely.
_Mick - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 01:09 PM EST (#6284) #
He's probably a mortal cinch for the HoF

I agree with you, but I also remember thinking the same thing about Mr. Trammell.
_David C - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 01:37 PM EST (#6285) #
Nomah as a HOF lock? - you gotta be kidding me.

The guy is already past 30, has a history of injuries and a terrible defensive rep. He will forever be known as the final millstone that the Red Sox shed on their way to the promised land.

He's already behind A-rod & Jeter and Tejada who is two years younger already has him beat in home runs and will eventually pass him in hits.

You don't elect the fourth best shortstop in the league (and even that is debatable) to the hall of fame
_Mick - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 01:50 PM EST (#6286) #
He will forever be known as the final millstone that the Red Sox shed on their way to the promised land.

Unless, of course, he is the starting shortstop for the World Champion Chicago Cubs. Any team with Wood, Prior and Zambrano has as good a shot as any getting into the post-season and making a run. Then Nomar immediately becomes "The man whose destiny wasn't in Fenway, but Wrigley."
Mike D - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 01:55 PM EST (#6287) #
Great job, Mike G.

Nomar in his prime (assuming that we're not still in the midst of his prime) was simply an excellent line-drive hitter. Having seen him reasonably often in person during his absolute peak, I always found it striking how hard-hit all of his balls in play were -- line drives, deep fly balls, scorching grounders. For a "hacker" to produce at as high a level as Nomar did, he's got to be able to drive pitches anywhere in the strike zone, and beyond.

Vladimir Guerrero does it better, but I wouldn't put too many other hitters above 1999-2000 Nomar in terms of consistent, hard contact.
Mike Green - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 02:04 PM EST (#6288) #
You don't elect the fourth best shortstop in the league (and even that is debatable) to the hall of fame

Don't you think that's a little extreme? Garciaparra in his 99-00 prime was pretty clearly better than Jeter (more on that next time), and about even with A-Rod (better O; less D).

Garciaparra's defensive reputation was not terrible. He was widely considered to be a solid shortstop, but not a Gold Glover. His zone ratings every year until 2004 were league average. Here is a nice summary of where the shortstops stood defensively according to the various metrics in 2003.
_David C - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 02:31 PM EST (#6289) #
As I said during the McGriff thread a while back - I'm not saying that he shouldn't get in the hall of fame - I'm saying he won't. You can quote Win Shares & Zone ratings and all that fancy stuff - however what counts to the voters are batting average, RBIs, gold gloves & playoff reputations.

Nomar has a great batting average and that's about it. Sure if manages to last long enough to get the magic '3000' or leads the Cubs to a sting of championships he gets in. I think the odds against him maintaining that average or reaching either of those latter two goals are staggering. My money is on him falling short.
_Snowboy - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 03:27 PM EST (#6290) #
Be careful with the "BA and that's it"
Nomar's SLG is .549 and his OPS is .919. Yes, he has many years to go, and may slide, but don't start calling him Joe Sewell just yet.
_Vsaint - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 05:37 PM EST (#6291) #
JP said Hill reminded him of Craig Biggio.
_Lefty - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 05:53 PM EST (#6292) #
Not sure if this is the thread this should be posted but it is a shortstop. Chris Woodward just signed a minor league deal with the Mets. In other news the A's have given up trying to get a multi year deal with Durazo.

source: Rotoworld
_Magpie - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 05:58 PM EST (#6293) #
however what counts to the voters are batting average, RBIs, gold gloves & playoff reputations.

I don't disagree with that - but I think these categories are some of Garciaparra's strengths. He's got a .322 lifetime BAVG right now, and he'll have to fall right off the planet to finish up below .300. He already has as many 100+ RBI seasons as Mickey Mantle, among others, despite his two injury seasons, despite starting his career as a leadoff hitter. I think he does exactly the type of things that HoF voters typically like.
_David C - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 08:39 PM EST (#6294) #
I love baseball fans - that last comment really made me smile. I never knew that Mantle had only FOUR 100+ rbi seasons - how did a bum like that get into Cooperstown so easily when poor Joe Carter gets no respect?

Oh yeah - Mantle at age 30 had almost 1200 rbi - or 500 More than Nomar at the same age. I know Ernie Banks is his closest comp but seriously when it comes to the hall of fame Mr. Cub makes it on the strength of the 512 home runs (in the run depressed era of the 60's) and the back to back MVP awards.

Nomah won't have that and as far as the average goes it's a catch 22 situation. If he stays healthy enough to play he drops that average lower each year and if he gets hurt he doesn't get those counting stats he needs to pad his case.
_Grimlock - Tuesday, December 28 2004 @ 11:04 PM EST (#6295) #
As I said during the McGriff thread a while back - I'm not saying that he shouldn't get in the hall of fame - I'm saying he won't. You can quote Win Shares & Zone ratings and all that fancy stuff - however what counts to the voters are batting average, RBIs, gold gloves & playoff reputations.

Me Grimlock don't think he'll get in either and agree with you, but who's to say that in 10-30 years (guesstimating Nomah's eligibility), that the voters incorporate more "fancy stuff" in their voting consideration?
_CaramonLS - Wednesday, December 29 2004 @ 12:41 AM EST (#6296) #
Dustin Mohr signs with Colorado 1 year/900,000

Kind of surprised the Jays didn't make a run at him. Would be a nice option in the OF.
_Magpie - Wednesday, December 29 2004 @ 01:27 AM EST (#6297) #
that last comment really made me smile.

That's really the only reason it was there. They're not exactly comparable guys. :-)

But let's see. Nomar's only been healthy two of the last four years. Suppose he plays another eight years. Let's give him four full ones and four half ones - another 3600 at bats. If he hits .280 over the rest of his career, his lifetime average is still above .300, and his worst BAVG so far is .301 so its not exactly a blistering pace he has to maintain. I don't expect Wrigley to hurt him too much.

Worst case scenario, he ends up with a resume rather like Kirby Puckett's: 2300 hits, .300+ average, a couple batting titles, a lot of celebrity. At shortstop.
_Magpie - Wednesday, December 29 2004 @ 01:43 AM EST (#6298) #
And celebrity matters. I suppose that's one of the reasons Trammell and Grich and Blyleven aren't in the HoF, but Rizzuto and Mazeroski and Drysdale are.

I think Garciaparra at his peak was always viewed as a future Hall of Famer by the people who will eventually be voting on it. I think he'd have to pull a complete Dale Murphy not to get there. Which could certainly happen, I admit.
_Mick - Wednesday, December 29 2004 @ 02:27 AM EST (#6299) #
he'd have to pull a complete Dale Murphy

Ouch, on behalf of the former 2-time MVP. Reminds me of that SNL opening monologue where Alec Baldwins is visited by his future self who warns him that if he doesn't give his best, future hosts will worry about "taking a Baldwin" on the show.
_Magpie - Wednesday, December 29 2004 @ 05:23 PM EST (#6300) #
the former 2-time MVP

It's one of those Deep and Profound mysteries. Everybody cast your memories back... back... to December 1987.

Dale Murphy is 31 years old, a five-time Gold Glove winner in center field. He has been named to seven All-Star teams. He won back-to-back MVP awards in 1982 and 1983, and followed them up with essentially identical seasons in 1984 and 1985. Trying to determine which of thosae four seasons was his best... well, it's a chore.

He had a bit of an off-year in 1986, but only by his own standards. And he came roaring back with a vengeance in 1987, posting career bests in HRs, On-Base, and Slugging.

At this point his career numbers look like this: he has a .278 BAVG with 310 HR and 927 RBI. He plays in a good hitter's park, and he'll turn 32 during spring training.

And on top of all of that, he is tall, handsome, and universally regarded as one of the truly good people in the game.

But from that point he played just four more seasons (and tiny bits of two more) - he hit .233 with 88 HR and 339 RBI. And hung them up with 398 career HRs after looking like he had a good chance to make it to 500...

How could he miss? What happened? Does anyone actually know?
Mike Green - Friday, December 31 2004 @ 01:39 PM EST (#6301) #
I thought that I'd try to find out what happened to Murphy, and checked the old Abstracts. I didn't get too far, but here's my best guess. He had always had huge platoon differentials, unlike most right-handed hitters. Whether this was due to his vision or (less likely) an arm problem, or was purely idiosyncratic I do not know.
Anyways, as he aged, he became utterly incapable against right-handed pitchers, and that was pretty much that. It's much easier for a left-handed hitter witht his type of problem to age gracefully.

While I was looking up Murphy, I came across this gem on Kirby Puckett in the 1988 Abstract:

"Probably no player in any city is as popular as Kirby is in Minnesota...What other major league superstar would let his teammates rub his head for luck?...

Young plyers are often bathed in a transcendant innocence which makes them attractive. Then they start doing commercials, trading on that attraction, and we know it's just a matter of time until they are caught trying to capture some chemicals or are hit with a paternity suit and start fighting with the club over money...Part of the charm of Kirby is that his skin of innocence seems thicker than usual, and seems to be wearing off more slowly."

Boy, when the skin of innocence did wear off, it was not a pretty picture.
_Magpie - Saturday, January 01 2005 @ 01:55 AM EST (#6302) #
what happened to Murphy

Its also possible that a:) the decline really begins in 1986 and the apparent recovery in 1987 was an illusion created by that year's sudden offensive explosion; b) and I think there were injuries the last couple of years. Possibly a shoulder?
Hall Watch 2004- The Shortstops-Nomar Garciaparra | 29 comments | Create New Account
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