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The draft eligible college hitters are generally regarded as a weak class this year. As opposed to the strength of the college pitchers, as few as a handful of hitters will be selected in round 1 on June 7th. However, there are plenty of gems to be found if you’re willing to mine for them.

The stats listed are fairly straight forward, with the exception of aGPA. Thanks to the park factors and strength of schedules listed at Boyd's World adjusted statistics are possible to calculate. While not as thorough as Craig Burley’s adjusted statistics for 2003, aGPA still does a good job adjusting for parks and schedules (at least in my mind).

GPA is a stat created by Aaron Gleeman where GPA = ((OBP*1.8)+SLG)/4.

aGPA is GPA adjusted for parks and schedules. Park factors used for 2002 and 2004 are based on the park factors for 2000-2003. Park factors for 2003 are weighted average park factor for all stadiums a team played in 2003. Strength of schedule as presented in these listings is the average ISR of a team's opponents for each year listed.

Onto the prospects!

Following are a list of the top college hitting prospects, position, college, and batting side. Stats provided are through the games played on May 16th. Years listed are the years each player played in Division I.

1. Stephen Drew, SS, Florida State, Switch - The brother of J.D. Drew, Stephen is considered by most the top college position player in the draft. Spectulation has him going as high as #3 in the draft. However, opinions on Drew are mixed, and like his brother he has had some injuries in college.

Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg	aGPA
2004 157 0.338 0.472 0.669 0.510
2003 263 0.327 0.435 0.582 0.435
2002 204 0.402 0.457 0.750 0.539


2. B.J. Szymanski, OF, Princeton, Switch - Normally when you think of the Ivy League and baseball you're thinking of front office personnel. However, Szymanski is one that has the scouts drooling with size, power and speed.

Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg	aGPA
2004 164 0.378 0.453 0.646 0.394
2003 179 0.330 0.362 0.492 0.304


3. Dustin Pedroia, SS, Arizona St, Right - One of the candidates for College Player of the Year, Pedroia has put up some strong numbers across the board. One thing to be aware of, however, is that playing baseball in the SW US has a Coors-like effect on the stats. For comparison sake, Aaron Hill had an aGPA of 0.422 last season before being taken 13th overall.

Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg	aGPA
2004 197 0.411 0.514 0.655 0.384
2003 297 0.404 0.472 0.579 0.358
2002 236 0.347 0.417 0.432 0.288


4. Danny Putnam, OF, Stanford, Left
Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg	aGPA
2004 201 0.398 0.476 0.677 0.460
2003 230 0.348 0.423 0.630 0.403


5. Jeff Frazier, OF, Rutgers, Right
Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg	aGPA
2004 186 0.376 0.452 0.640 0.409
2003 213 0.315 0.399 0.516 0.330


6. Eddy Martinez-Esteve, OF, Florida State, Right
Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg	aGPA
2004 212 0.377 0.447 0.679 0.498
2003 186 0.371 0.457 0.608 0.456


7. Brad McCann, 3B, Clemson, Right
Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg	aGPA
2004 206 0.388 0.462 0.660 0.526
2003 251 0.347 0.376 0.546 0.394


8. Jon Zeringue, OF, Louisiana State, Right
Year	ABs	Ave	Obp	Slg	aGPA
2004 199 0.422 0.481 0.698 0.436
2003 227 0.339 0.406 0.577 0.386
2002 97 0.247 0.298 0.361 0.260



Last season the Jays were able to find a couple of sleepers late in the draft. In the 18th round Toronto selected Ryan Roberts. Roberts is currently the starting 2B in Charleston and given his production so far he's moving up the Jays prospects rankings. In the 2003 NCAA season Roberts ranked fourth overall in Craig Burley's adjusted OWP.

Similarly, Jayce Tingler put up an OBP in excess of .500 at Missouri in 2003. Selected in the 10th round Tingler is starting in Dunedin this year and has an intriguing 31 BB+HBP against just 10 strikeouts.

So along those lines, here are 25 players that aren't as highly regarded, but have put up some interesting numbers that might be worth taking a flyer on. These players could go from as high as round 2 to as low as round 20 (or who knows, maybe not at all).

Players listed are sorted by 2004 aGPA:

Player School Pos Year ABs Ave Obp Slg aGPA
Brad Hayes Arkansas State 3B 2004 135 0.407 0.462 0.704 0.544
Brad Hayes Arkansas State 3B 2003 209 0.321 0.367 0.493 0.359
Brad Hayes Arkansas State 3B 2002 197 0.335 0.412 0.442 0.433

Brendan Winn South Carolina OF 2004 189 0.349 0.444 0.720 0.520

Josh Morris Georgia OF/1B 2004 182 0.341 0.450 0.692 0.517

Matt Barket Tulane OF 2004 200 0.400 0.481 0.595 0.515

Chip Cannon The Citadel 1B 2004 185 0.368 0.533 0.697 0.501
Chip Cannon The Citadel 1B 2003 206 0.335 0.459 0.612 0.400

Landon Powell South Carolina C 2004 205 0.356 0.433 0.654 0.491
Landon Powell South Carolina C 2003 245 0.339 0.436 0.555 0.444
Landon Powell South Carolina C 2002 274 0.292 0.350 0.485 0.407

Jason Vargas Long Beach St 1B 2004 161 0.342 0.470 0.516 0.487

Wes Swackhamer Tulane OF 2004 185 0.368 0.447 0.573 0.485
Wes Swackhamer Tulane OF 2003 145 0.297 0.401 0.566 0.411

Ryan Jones East Carolina OF 2004 175 0.406 0.507 0.891 0.483
Ryan Jones East Carolina OF 2003 208 0.264 0.336 0.370 0.272
Ryan Jones East Carolina OF 2002 196 0.260 0.370 0.327 0.270

Matt Anderson UC Irvine Inf 2004 188 0.330 0.417 0.473 0.482
Matt Anderson UC Irvine Inf 2002 239 0.381 0.444 0.494 0.507

Greg Dini Tulane C 2004 188 0.372 0.418 0.606 0.479
Greg Dini Miami, Florida C 2002 85 0.247 0.270 0.353 0.247

Steve Pearce South Carolina Inf 2004 196 0.337 0.424 0.622 0.474

Dallas Morris LA-Lafayette 3B 2004 150 0.373 0.434 0.740 0.472
Dallas Morris LA-Lafayette 3B 2003 224 0.299 0.350 0.406 0.314
Dallas Morris LA-Lafayette 3B 2002 87 0.264 0.414 0.368 0.361

Mark Jurich Louisville OF 2004 216 0.361 0.431 0.708 0.469
Mark Jurich Louisville OF 2003 130 0.285 0.351 0.531 0.349
Mark Jurich Louisville OF 2002 203 0.365 0.443 0.724 0.480

Chris Campos Oregon State OF 2004 113 0.310 0.497 0.549 0.467

Chris Iannetta North Carolina C/1B 2004 189 0.344 0.453 0.587 0.466
Chris Iannetta North Carolina C/1B 2003 232 0.319 0.407 0.496 0.404
Chris Iannetta North Carolina C/1B 2002 165 0.333 0.431 0.539 0.457

Ryan Steinbach IUPU-Fort Wayne Inf 2004 167 0.359 0.432 0.413 0.463

Phillip Hawke LA-Lafayette 1B 2004 124 0.339 0.485 0.613 0.461
Phillip Hawke LA-Lafayette 1B 2003 203 0.305 0.387 0.468 0.353
Phillip Hawke LA-Lafayette 1B 2002 114 0.246 0.428 0.351 0.364

Barry Gunther Mississippi C 2004 142 0.352 0.428 0.486 0.460

Dustin Fremion IUPU-Fort Wayne OF 2004 146 0.356 0.428 0.411 0.460

Mike Ferris Miami, Ohio 1B 2004 177 0.379 0.528 0.831 0.454
Mike Ferris Miami, Ohio 1B 2003 175 0.360 0.484 0.549 0.336
Mike Ferris Kentucky 1B 2002 114 0.228 0.350 0.386 0.297

Hunter Pence Texas-Arlington OF 2004 165 0.418 0.462 0.618 0.452
Hunter Pence Texas-Arlington OF 2003 239 0.347 0.406 0.561 0.379

Lou Santangelo Clemson C 2004 203 0.305 0.381 0.591 0.450
Lou Santangelo Seton Hall C 2003 160 0.281 0.335 0.381 0.262
Lou Santangelo Seton Hall C 2002 131 0.214 0.286 0.305 0.226


Brett Anderson Co Charleston OF 2004 166 0.367 0.505 0.705 0.448
Brett Anderson Co Charleston OF 2003 189 0.286 0.369 0.407 0.278
Brett Anderson Co Charleston OF 2002 177 0.333 0.450 0.548 0.380


Kurt Suzuki Cal St Full. C 2004 189 0.439 0.537 0.709 0.445
Kurt Suzuki Cal St Full. C 2003 143 0.350 0.441 0.462 0.333


Preliminary Batter's Box Draft Coverage:
* College Pitchers - April 28th
* A review of the 2 Ricciardi Drafts - May 26th
* Mock Draft - June 2nd
* Batter's Box Draft Day Coverage - June 7th
Draft Preview - College Hitters | 82 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_MrPurple - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 12:04 AM EDT (#61842) #
http://www.naturesguard.com
Has Jeff Larish fallen so far this year as to not show up? BA had him going as high as fourth earlier in the year.It will be interesting to see how JP moves on this draft. Everyone will be taking pitchers, most of these hitters are within striking distance of pick 16 and 32. But I'm still betting on Huston Street or David Purcey.

Very good summery. I must say I have been enthralled with this baseball knowledge on this board. I was begining to think there was no one out there that would not think my obsession was crazy.

Seeing you guys I know I'm not.

I mean I have never even been able to have an intelligent conversation with ANYONE about the June Draft before. Not even on the Jays Fan forum. I got chewed out for posting about the draft on there.

I must thank you all for providing me with the daily sustanence my addiction craves. I know I'm going to buy my next ticket in section 518, so I will see some of you then. I don't post often but I read everyting you post so keep up the good work, I can't live without it now.

Go Jays!!

(I am going to try out my first of your Anagrams that took me forever to decipher)

If you like cartoons COMN to see what I do for a living. Well; I hope it will soon provide a living wage anyway. It's the website for one of my cartoons I co-produce that should soon be in production up in Ottawa.
robertdudek - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 12:14 AM EDT (#61843) #
Great work Pistol,

And great to see more people using GPA. I would like to add that when discussing GPA and it's creation, it should always be mentioned that Aaron developed it based on Tangotiger's research.
robertdudek - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 12:17 AM EDT (#61844) #
One thing to mention,

It's not clear to me that you can adjust GPA for schedule and park in a matter-of-fact way. I invite Pistol to share his adjusting method.
_Sneeps - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 01:04 AM EDT (#61845) #
Mr. Purple, your is amazing.
_Sneeps - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 01:08 AM EDT (#61846) #
Duh, that was supposed to say your ART is amazing. Sleep...
_johnnnyS99 - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 03:20 AM EDT (#61847) #
Hey who are the cast memebers on your site Mr purple? Voice for the cartoon ? The dude from the Leprachaun "Warwick Davis" is on the site!! "I WANT ME GOLD< GOT TO HAVE ME GOLD"
Pistol - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 07:51 AM EDT (#61848) #
Hmmmm, on my computer at home it formats nicely, at work on a larger screen, not so much...

Has Jeff Larish fallen so far this year as to not show up?

Well, the first section is the top rated prospects. The second section is 'interesting players' who may or may not be highly rated players, but have high aGPA's.

I did look at Larish and I didn't think he was close to any of the top 8 listed. I'm almost certain he'll be rated higher by BA than the second group I listed, but his aGPA wasn't close to any of the players listed above.

it should always be mentioned that Aaron developed it based on Tangotiger's research.

Yes, I should have mentioned that, although I think Aaron does if you follow that link.

It's not clear to me that you can adjust GPA for schedule and park in a matter-of-fact way. I invite Pistol to share his adjusting method.

The way I did it was more or less matter-of-fact. I'm not certain that it's highly accurate, but sorting for aGPA came out with a real similar order to what Craig came up with for the 2003 hitters so I had some level of comfort with that. I look at it as a quick & dirty method to adjust the raw stats.
_Ryan01 - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 09:34 AM EDT (#61849) #
Larish has really dropped off this year and even BA is souring on him quite a bit. He's picked it up a little as of late but it doesn't look like he'll be signing that big bonus he thought he would be a year ago. I knew ASU's park was somewhat hitter friendly, but looking at Pedroia's aGPA, I didn't realize it was THAT hitter friendly. Probably a good reason to avoid Larish in the early rounds this year and maybe Travis Buck next year.

Interesting work Pistol, especially the sleeper category. It would be nice to find a couple more like Vito or Roberts.
Mike Green - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 09:59 AM EDT (#61850) #
Here are some bios on the sleepers:

Landon Powell
Chip Cannon
Wes Swackhamer
Matt Anderson

I'll get the rest later if someone doesn't beat me to it.
Pistol - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#61851) #
Mike - I believe I have most of the links to the sleepers, I can post them tonight.

How cool of a name is Wes Swackhamer? The Jays should draft him just for that.
Mike Green - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 10:32 AM EDT (#61852) #
Pistol, his full name Wesley Dodge Swackhamer is even better, and lends itself to a pop culture quiz. In which movie would a character named Wesley Dodge Swackhamer find himself right at home?

Can someone explain to me Landon Powell's weaknesses, so I know why he is not more highly rated? You've got a catcher with good size, a fine arm, good plate discipline and power and a switch-hitter. The bio suggests that he has some smarts as well. What's not to like?
_Ryan01 - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 10:34 AM EDT (#61853) #
Chip Cannon isn't a bad name for a two-way, pitcher/slugger either.
_Smack - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#61854) #
I agree I like Chip Cannon,son of Rooster Cannon.
He played good defense at 1b in college, I would take him with a late draft pick.
Craig B - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#61855) #
Powell is the consensus #1 catcher in the draft, isn't he? I think that's being pretty highly rated. I think he's got first-round talent, and if he slips to the compensation pick at #32 I hope he gets taken!

Jays pick #16, 32, 57, 83, and 87.
Craig B - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#61856) #
Ah, crap, I forgot one thing about Powell. Is he still a Boras client?

If so, I might not want to touch him. Then again, after Boras failed to get him signed professionally after pulling the stunt where he left high school early with a GED, maybe he's no longer Boras-represented.
Pistol - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#61857) #
Can someone explain to me Landon Powell's weaknesses, so I know why he is not more highly rated? You've got a catcher with good size, a fine arm, good plate discipline and power and a switch-hitter. The bio suggests that he has some smarts as well. What's not to like?

I agree, I like him as well. He and Brad McCann are the 2 college position players I'd most like to see the Jays get.

I believe BA had Powell in the 40s earlier this year among college players, and he's probably climbed since then (they haven't updated their rankings in a couple months).
_DW - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#61858) #
Powell struggles with his weight from time to time, his swing gets long, and his lower half is a little sluggish. Salary demands may also be a problem. Still, I'd peg him as a sandwich pick if the draft happened today.
Mike Green - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#61859) #
Thanks, Craig B and DW, for the answers. So Landon needs to start eating salad instead of his favorite "grandma's macaroni and cheese", and change agents, and then he'd be set. Heck, even if he only changes agents, he's not going to as slow as Ernie Lombardi.
_johnnnyS99 - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#61860) #
Josh Fields, and Danny Putnam are two of the few postion players the jays would consider with the 16th pick. JP said last year due to the lack of polished hitters and the depth of College pitching he had to take a postion player. The same goes for this year, count on JP going ith a hitter wiht the first pick and a pitcher at the sandwhich round. JP picked up Josh Banks in the 2nd round , and knew he was first round talent, there passed on Brad Sullivan (good call)
Mike Green - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#61861) #
Brewerfan.net has very interesting player profiles. Here is Landon Powell's. It seems that Boras may indeed no longer be his agent, and that he has lost weight.
Craig B - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#61862) #
He lost weight, and he can't hit now. I'll take the fat guy who can rake, thanks. :)
_MrPurple - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#61863) #
http://www.naturesguard.com
"Hey who are the cast memebers on your site Mr purple? Voice for the cartoon ? The dude from the Leprachaun "Warwick Davis" is on the site!! "I WANT ME GOLD< GOT TO HAVE ME GOLD""

Yep those are the actors we have signed to do voices for the cartoon. The pics on the first page is myself and the other co-creator with Warwick Davis and Jeremy Bullock AKA :Bobba Fett.At the Comic book Launch in England in 2002.

Duh, that was supposed to say your ART is amazing. Sleep...

Thanks! I don't do the art myself I could barely draw a stickman, be we are very proud of our artists. We just hope we can start paying them soon :)
Mike Green - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#61864) #
Craig, me too. Anyways, I'd like to see Powell hit.

It surprised me that Powell did not receive more attention than players like Pedroia and Szymanski, who have lesser offensive performance and defensive ability. I guess it's the whole tools vs. performance debate.
_goatboy - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#61865) #
Mr Purple I can't see the Jays drafting David Purcey, not with his lack of command which we all know is perhaps the first thing the Jays look at when they draft a player
_goatboy - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#61866) #
I see the batters box has no shortage of Landon Powell fans. Now I know the philosophy of in the first round is suppost to be draft the best talent, but what in the world are we going to do with all these catchers. We know all about Cash and Quiroz, but are other quality catchers in the system, Jose Umbria and Robinson Diaz to name a couple. I have nothing against drafting Landon Powell I just wounder if the Jays don't have more pressing needs, such as a third baseman for example.
Mike Green - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#61867) #
Goatboy, aside from the question of drafting the best talent, catchers have a very high dropout rate due to injury. There is nothing wrong with having Quiroz, Cash, Diaz and Powell.

But, it does come down to best talent, not filling needs. That's something you do much, much later on.
_goatboy - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 05:39 PM EDT (#61868) #
Hey, you know what Mike the Jays don't have enough bats in the system if Landon Powell can hit I say welcome.

While I was writing that last comment and crazy thought ( now there's a first ) popped into my head. What if JP throws us all for a loop and drafts a bat with the 16th pick and the 32nd pick. Ya I know crazy, hey JP you listening?
_goatboy - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#61870) #
Ok I'm going to play GM, if he is availible when the jays pick I'd draft BJ Szymanski. Szyamski is a switch hitting outfielder who is a protential 5 tool player.

I am going to enclude part of an article from a ESPN news piece on the up coming draft.

Fastest Riser
B.J. Szymanski, of, Princeton
It took just one pitch for scouts to take notice of B.J. Szymanski.

That pitch came in Szymanski's first at-bat of the season and happened to be a 96 mph fastball from Old Dominion righthander Justin Verlander, a likely top 10 pick. Szymanski deposited the ball into the trees beyond the center-field fence at Bud Metheny Stadium.


Princeton's B.J. Szymanski is batting over .400 this season.
"I've always hit fastballs pretty well and I went in there looking for one," Szymanski said. "He's a pretty intimidating pitcher and it was a pretty good pitch, low in the zone. I just turned on it and hit it over the fence."

With that mighty blow, the scouts there to scope Verlander started moving the switch-hitting Princeton center fielder up their follow lists. They had already noticed his muscular 6-5, 215-pound frame and witnessed his batting practice power.

Szymanski doesn't just show plus power in game action. He also displays solid pitch recognition, above-average speed (he runs a 6.45-6.47 60-yard dash) and plus arm strength, thrusting him into contention to become a first-round pick this June.

"I wanted to take him over to that lake over there and see if he could walk on water, because he can do everything else," one area scout said.

Szymanski's meteoric rise seems more impressive given that he is playing just his second season of college baseball and spends his late summers and falls as an All-Ivy League wide receiver. He caught 44 passes for 823 and a league-best 18.7 yards per grab last year for Princeton.

"It's a pitching-rich draft, and I've talked to a number of scouting directors that like him a lot because of the limited number of athletes and position players," Princeton coach Scott Bradley said. "He's a five-tool player who scouts look at as just a part-time baseball player who can keep improving. He has the ability to do things other kids can't. A week into our practice (last year), the assistant coaches and I looked at him and then at each other and said, 'You've got to be kidding me.'"

Szymanski hit .330 with 3 homers and 32 RBI last year. He also led the Tigers in runs (39), hits (59), at-bats (174), triples (six) and extra-base hits (88) last year. He's batting .421-3-22 with five doubles and four triples this season. Bradley compares Szymanski to a switch-hitting Rocco Baldelli, a player he recruited heavily out of high school.

Szymanski was recruited more as a football player out of Rider High in Wichita Falls, Texas. He spoke to Bradley during his recruiting trip to Princeton, but opted to play only football as a freshman so he could keep his academics in order. He returned to Texas that summer and participated in a Reds tryout camp as a favor to Rider High baseball coach Kerry Hargrove. He smacked some ropes there, piquing the Reds' interest -- as well as his own. "I pretty much decided right there that I would play college baseball," he said.

Bradley welcomed the physical specimen wholeheartedly and has since helped Szymanski improve his mental approach to the game. "In high school, I played more on raw athletic ability and less on baseball skills," he said. He has also improved his selectivity at the plate and shown a knack for making adjustments.

"He might get fooled by a breaking ball in one at-bat, but if you're a pitcher you better put it away the next time because he learns," Bradley said. "We've always known how good a hitter and a player he was, and all it took was one game at Old Dominion for everyone else to."
Pistol - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#61871) #
Goatboy - Da Box frowns upon reposting others work. It's one thing to have a few sentences, it's another to post nearly (or all) of an entire article.

You can always link the article in the homepage or in your message.

And FWIW I don't believe Szymanski will be around when the Jays select.
Pistol - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#61872) #
Here's Larish's stats:


Year ABs Ave Obp Slg aGPA
2004 193 0.295 0.378 0.425 0.269
2003 234 0.372 0.528 0.697 0.413
2002 128 0.328 0.447 0.477 0.312


With a drop that big it smells like there's an injury he's playing through.

Does it remind you of another player that had a bad season prior to the draft? Hint: His first name is VITO~!


Year ABs Ave Obp Slg aGPA
2003 229 0.306 0.398 0.528 0.323
2002 238 0.357 0.465 0.727 0.438
_goatboy - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#61873) #
Pistol I understand what you are saying and it certainly was not my intention to violate any copy right laws it was just that this article was a small part of a bigger story

but for the record it won't happen again
_johnnnyS99 - Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 11:59 PM EDT (#61874) #
Larish and Syzmanski wont be picked by the Jays. Larish is a Boras client, who will probably be taken in the 2nd round or so, to a team willing to fork over 2 million. The jays will follow the same philosphy they did the first few years and get guys who are close to making the bigs and play their style of ball (OBP), as JP was saying during the game today.
Craig B - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 06:36 AM EDT (#61875) #
Ok I'm going to play GM, if he is availible when the jays pick I'd draft BJ Szymanski. Szyamski is a switch hitting outfielder who is a protential 5 tool player.

Well, Szymanski won't be available. But you're missing two tools. Szymanski can't hit, and can't hit for power. He may be run, field, and throw, but he just can't hit. If Szymanski ever hits better than the major-league average for a full season, I will eat a sock.
_goatboy - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 07:35 AM EDT (#61876) #
Craig B, would those socks freshly laundered or worn and raunchy?
Mike Green - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#61877) #
Craig, I'm not up on the competition level in the Ivy league, but I'm guessing that it's way behind the Pac-12, the ACC etc. Szymanski might very well be a case where your system would show a greatly different adjusted GPA, than the admittedly more casual system Pistol used. Am I right?
Pistol - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#61878) #
Mike - I think you just merged the Big 12 and Pac 10....

Competition in the Ivy league isn't particularly strong (Ron Darling I think is the best player ever from the league), and I think Szymanski's aGPA reflects that. Overall I don't believe he's in the top 100 this season in my aGPA rankings (I don't have my sheet in front of me).

Szymanski size, speed, and inexperience (which in this case is looked at as a positive) is why he's rated so high.
Craig B - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#61879) #
Princeton's SOS (I don't have the data to run my own SOS measures, so I'll use Boyd Nation's which are quite good if somewhat unfair and not ideally suited to adjusting any sort of ratings) is 187th in the nation. Remember the weak schedule Rickie Weeks faced at Southern last year? Princeton's is weaker. A fair shade weaker. Even their non-conference schedule is weak (159th overall, below-average in all).

It's vastly weaker than, say, Texas-Arlington's schedule was in 2003, where Ryan Roberts hit better than Szymanski has this year. Take that for what it's worth.

Szymanski size, speed, and inexperience (which in this case is looked at as a positive) is why he's rated so high.

Which is true, but really, do you care (within limits) how fast an outfielder is? I don't. It's not like Szymanski has blazing speed, either. He's fast. He's third on the Princeton team in steals, which tells me he's the third-fastest baseball player on the Princeton varsity.

As for the inexperience, I think that cuts both ways. Szymanski's going to be 22 by the time he plays full-season ball, and hasn't got as much baseball experience as most 20-year-olds. That's a lot of development he's missed out on. Then you have the fact that he actually does have quite a bit of experience.

What scouts *really* like, when you cut away all the crap, is that Szymanski is 6'5". Does that help a guy? Is a guy more projectable because he's tall? I'm skeptical. He does have a killer body by all accounts, so you can infer the power potential, but he's got a loooong way to go.

I think Szymanski might turn into a good player, but he's a stretch as a first-round pick. Football players generally don't amount to much, anyway. Scouts love them, but history doesn't bear that out. Believe me, though, scouts LOVE football players. The basketball players tend to do a little better than the football players, but all in all being a football player isn't really any advantage over not being a football player... you just get drafted higher.
Craig B - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#61880) #
He's third on the Princeton team in steals, which tells me he's the third-fastest baseball player on the Princeton varsity.

This should read

He's third on the Princeton team in steals, which tells me that, at a rough guess, he's the third-fastest baseball player on the Princeton varsity.
_KBO25 - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#61881) #
UofGA OF Josh Morris listed in the sleeper column is just a freshman.
_Brent - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#61882) #
Craig, are you going to run through all the college hitters with your method of filtering the stats? Is there a significant difference compared with Pistol's?
Craig B - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#61883) #
Craig, are you going to run through all the college hitters with your method of filtering the stats? Is there a significant difference compared with Pistol's?

Not unless I get a research assistant between now and the draft. :)
_Brent - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#61884) #
I'd be happy to help if you wish to get the project going.

I'm writing my second actuarial exam tomorrow, so I should have tons of time on my hands after that. Let me know.
robertdudek - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#61885) #
Not unless I get a research assistant between now and the draft. :)

How much do you pay?
Pistol - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#61886) #
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/2004draft/drafttracker.html
COMN for BA's draft tracker to see how the top 30 is shaping up.

FWIW BA has Szymanski at 19.
Pistol - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 06:54 PM EDT (#61887) #
Is there a significant difference compared with Pistol's?

Craig's list was sorted based on xRAA, which I believe is a counting stat, and mine was based off of aGPA which is a rate stat. However, Craig also calculated OWP so I resorted Craig's list by OWP to make them both rate stats.

Here's how each top 25 stack up against each other:

Rk Craig B Pistol
1 Rickie Weeks Michael Aubrey
2 Jer Cleveland Jer Cleveland
3 Michael Aubrey Ryan Roberts
4 Ryan Roberts Michael Johnson
5 Ricardo Nanita Ricardo Nanita

6 Michael Johnson Ant Garibaldi
7 Chad Hauseman Brian Buscher
8 Conor Jackson Conor Jackson
9 Ant Garibaldi Chris Klemm
10 Matt Hopper Brandon Armstrong

11 Brian Buscher Rickie Weeks
12 Josh Anderson Eddy Martinez
13 John Gragg Adam Heether
14 Brian Snyder Tony Richie
15 Michael Brown Jonny Kaplan

16 Tony Richie David Murphy
17 Carlos Quentin Louie Alamia
18 Mitch Maier Ryan Garko
19 Eddy Martinez Chad Hauseman
20 Stephen Drew Scott Dierks

21 Beau Hearod K Casto
22 David Murphy Landon Powell
23 Adam Boeve Stephen Drew
24 Ryan Garko Chris Durbin
25 Tony McQuade Tony McQuade


Not identical, but they're fairly similar so I have some level of comfort that aGPA is in the right ballpark for comparing college performance.
Pistol - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#61888) #
UofGA OF Josh Morris listed in the sleeper column is just a freshman

I noticed that yesterday. It's why I didn't give him a link.

That's one of the difficult things about the draft (for someone like myself) - you can't easily determine what year a player is in school, or if they're draft eligible sophomores.

But he's now officially a sleeper for the 2006 draft!
robertdudek - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#61889) #
Weeks dropping from first to 11th suggests you are punishing the weake-conference players a bit too much.
Craig B - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#61890) #
Robert, that's because the straight-line park and competition adjustments don't scale to GPA, which is logarithmic. A .400 GPA doesn't create twice as many runs as a .200; it's a much larger difference.

Pistol's method there is quick and dirty and it works pretty well as a rough guide...
_DW - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#61891) #
"He lost weight, and he can't hit now. I'll take the fat guy who can rake, thanks. :)"
Maybe I misunderstand ... Powell's OPS is up slightly from last year (according the to Boyd DB).

Anyhoo, that this discussion is even going on is awesome - I don't know of any other site with quite this type of banter - makes me wish I was a Jays fan. :)
robertdudek - Wednesday, May 19 2004 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#61892) #
Robert, that's because the straight-line park and competition adjustments don't scale to GPA, which is logarithmic. A .400 GPA doesn't create twice as many runs as a .200; it's a much larger difference.

I suspected as much - I was just prodding Pistol into refining his measure.
_JohnnyS99 - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:13 AM EDT (#61893) #
The Blue Jays will Select Josh Fields, or Danny Putnam, whichever one is not taken first.
Craig B - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 08:24 AM EDT (#61894) #
Crap! I was reading Powell's numbers backwards, lookign at 2002 as 2004.

He *is* hitting better this year, much much better. Well that's a good sign!
_DW - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#61895) #
I don't think Fields or Putnam will still be on the board.

Also, I've had two subsequent Powell discussions - both times, I was told I was crazy for thinking Powell would go in the sandwich round. Their consensus - round 3, which jibes with something BA put today ... odds are that I was wrong here. Don't know how much being a senior will help/hurt him...
Pistol - Thursday, May 20 2004 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#61896) #
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/2004draft/040520top100.html
BA has their top 100 out now. It's a subscriber page.

A couple of players we've discussed in this thread: Jeff Larish is #45 for BA and Landon Powell is #86. One of the players I like, Brad McCann, isn't in the top 100.
Craig B - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#61897) #
Preliminary rankings of college hitters and pitchers using my **xR methods are now nearly complete, thanks to a late night and gin. I haven't even looked at who did well and who hasn't yet.

An article detailing the top performers for 2004 to date will be up on Hardball Times within days, with more detailed data being presented both here and at THT later on. Thanks to the efforts of others too numerous to mention, I will have much more good stuff this time around, and (barring mishaps) a full draft preview file (which I hope will contain every draft-eligible college player) will be available before the draft.

I want to thank Brent Smith for agreeing to the thankless task of collaborating and helping me out with this. Much of the work you'll (hopefully) see pouring out of me over the next couple of weeks will be Brent's.
Pistol - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 08:49 AM EDT (#61898) #
BA has an initial mock draft for subscribers.

Part of what they had to say about the Jays pick:

They like Sowers but more realistically are looking at Jackson, Perkins and Purcey. They would also consider Virginia Commonwealth righthander Justin Orenduff.
Craig B - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 09:18 AM EDT (#61899) #
This list mixes starters and relievers together, but I thought I'd give a sneak peek for some of the pitchers... these are the top NCAA pitchers (not just draft eligibles) by **RA+, which takes into account (perliminary) competition and park adjustments.

Min. 35 innings

Abe Woody, Baylor 423
Jered Weaver, LBSU 418
Jason Meyer, Texas A&M 394
Alex McRobbie, UCSB 387
J. Brent Cox, Texas 387
Bo Lanier, Georgia 372
Taylor Tankersley, Alabama 363
Wade Townsend, Rice 358
Mark Alexander, Missouri 337
Philip Humber, Rice 334
Anthony Rea, Santa Clara 324
Jon Wilson, Winthrop 324 (11.0 K/9 and 5-1 K/W, nice job in a small conference)
Nate Moore, Troy St. 322
J.P. Howell, Texas 319
Brad Kilby, San Jose St. 316
Guy McDowell, Hawaii 302

(among notables and guys who did well on RSAA, Huston Street is 21st at 291, Jason Windsor 26th at 277, Wade LeBlanc 28th at 275, Jeff Niemann 49th at 249, Zach Jackson 92nd at 210, David Purcey 97th at 206, Justin Orenduff 102nd at 203, Thomas Diamond 148th at 187, Justin Verlander 214th at 169)
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#61900) #
Craig, it's great news that you're preparing this before the draft. Thanks to you and to Pistol, I'll be ready to enjoy it.
Craig B - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#61901) #
Don't know how much being a senior will help/hurt him...

It "hurts" him some, if he was a junior he might go higher, but he's lost his leverage now, so I think someone will take a shot at him pretty high up. Powell is likely to try to bargain hard for a big bonus, probably well over his draft slot.
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#61902) #
It sounds like Powell is tailor made for the Yankees. They've got all those draft picks. Powell's got talent and wants a big bonus; the Yankees crave the talent and would be willing to fork over the bonus. Best of all, signing Powell would allow them to trade Dioner Navarro for a second baseman or centerfielder in July with a clear conscience. I know, I know, the word "conscience" does not enter into George's vocabulary with respect to players until they are retired.
Craig B - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#61903) #
Odd. Someone named Patrick Perry from Northern Colorado is coming in at #2 in my list of hitters. This is, I assume, because the home PF for Northern Colorado is listed at 75, which has to be just amazingly wrong.

The actual top 5 hitters (not just draft-eligibles), by park-and-competition-adjusted xRAA

Jed Lowrie, Stanford, 45
Chip Cannon, Citadel, 43
Mike Ferris, Miami-Ohio, 42
Alex Gordon, Nebraska, 42
Ryan Jones, East Carolina, 42

Notables : Kurt Suzuki 8th, 39; Brad McCann 10th, 38; Eddy Martinez-Esteve 12th, 37; Josh Morris 14th, 35; Jon Zeringue 17th, 34; Landon Powell 18th, 33; Stephen Drew 20th, 33; Danny Putnam 24th, 32; Dustin Pedroia 28th, 32; Jeff Frazier 30th, 31; Ryan Braun 81st, 24; Lou Santangelo 86th, 24; Wes Swackhamer 92nd, 23; B.J. Szymanski 116th, 22 (much better than I gave him credit for, I take most of it back); Jeff Larish 833rd, 6.
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#61904) #
Next stupid question: what's wrong with Chip Cannon? He's got a great name, he's got a great game, he's 6'5 215...OK, OK peachy keen just won't do it. Seriously, from the descriptions and the stats, he sounds quite a bit like John Olerud, although not as good off the mound.
Craig B - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#61905) #
Um... he's really slow? :)

That's it. (He's an above-average college pitcher, nothing more than that). He rakes, he played in a pitcher's park with a fairly decebnt schedule for a team in the Southern Conference. He does strike out a lot, though, and that's a serious concern. If he strikes out 20% of his plate appearances against his level of competition, how will his power change when he can't swing for the fences with two strikes anymore?

Also, despite showing very good power, his power isn't prodigious.

If that's the worst you can say about a guy, though, he's a pretty decent hitter!
Gerry - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#61906) #
BA thinks the Jays will choose a pitcher in the first round. Traditionally the Jays have gone with a hitter first round. I know hitters are not strong in this draft but it goes against the Jays philosophy to pick a pitcher round one (too risky).

Do we all think the Jays will go pitcher round one, does BA have inside information?
Pistol - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#61907) #
http://www.baseballamerica.com/cgi-bin/03draftdbx_team.cgi?team=KC
Being drafted as a senior hurts your negiotiating leverage.

COMN - The Royals took 5 seniors in rounds 5-9 and gave them take it or leave it $1000 bonuses. They apparently all took it.

The actual top 5 hitters (not just draft-eligibles), by park-and-competition-adjusted xRAA

Jed Lowrie, Stanford, 45
Chip Cannon, Citadel, 43
Mike Ferris, Miami-Ohio, 42
Alex Gordon, Nebraska, 42
Ryan Jones, East Carolina, 42


I don't have my sheet in front of me, but it looks like Mike Ferris falls through the cracks in my quick and dirty calculation. I know BA had him pretty highly rated.
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#61908) #
My suggested reasons for not drafting a pitcher #16- Kyle Sleeth, Josh Banks. Maybe Jeremy Sowers is left on the board at 16 and you decide that he is far better than any hitter available, but failing that it looks to me like there are a large number of fairly interchangeable college pitching talents.
Craig B - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#61909) #
Anyone know anything about Kurt Suzuki? What's his defense like? Can he play catcher as a pro? In the majors?
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 01:09 PM EDT (#61910) #
Pistol has linked to his profile in post #179528. Interesting items: Suzuki's had a recurring hip injury, he was platooned for part of one year. He's 6', 200 lbs., for what that's worth. It'd be interesting to know what the OSB% is for him.
Craig B - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#61911) #
Other sources have him at 5-10, 190. Good build for a catcher, anyway. The hip's a scare spot. Will Kimmey says he's got good D, in a recent chat. Looks like a good pick for someone.
Craig B - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#61912) #
Opponents are 21 for 42 against Chris Iannetta, 15 for 27 against Landon Powell, 23 for 30 against Kurt Suzuki, 30 for 40 against Greg Dini, 47 of 62 against Lou Santangelo, and 28 of 37 against Barry Gunther.

I'm thinking that four of these guys may not have catching in their longterm future, but I'd love to see Suzuki at least get a chance...
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#61913) #
http://www.charleston.net/stories/060703/spo_07_scheels.shtml
Just for fun, COMN for a picture of Iannetta and Powell in action. Awkward slide, that.
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#61914) #
Martinez-Esteve looks like he might be the best hitter in the draft, taking into account age, performance, lack of injury history and subjective appearance. Have there be any comments re salary demands, motivation, baseball intelligence etc.?
Pistol - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#61915) #
Mike - If you go to the BA chat they say Martinez-Esteve is a DH
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#61916) #
Well, he's a third baseman converted to right field (this year). If his only issue is defence, and he's currently ranked 68 because of it, I'd be mighty tempted.
Craig B - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#61917) #
Well, the thing with EME is, he has a plus arm. I'm not terrifically comfortable saying that a guy with a real good arm has to go DH... surely he can play in the outfield?
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#61918) #
That's what I was thinking too. You've got a twenty year old with a very good arm, who has been a third baseman and is converted to right field. I'd certainly wait more than one year to decide that he can't field well enough. On the other hand, his collegiate coaches have moved him from the OF to DH this past week.
_Brent - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#61919) #
I'm happy to be working with Craig on the next analysis project. I'm going through the difficult stages of moving to Toronto, so any work (and updates) will come after the start of next week.
Mike Green - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#61920) #
In the BA chat, it was suggested that Landon Powell is the fifth best catcher in the draft, which would make him a third rounder indeed. I don't see it myself, but then what do I know?
_DW - Friday, May 21 2004 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#61921) #
"Don't know how much being a senior will help/hurt him..."
I meant in his specific case, given the concerns about how he'll negotiate. I think it hurts him less than most players - teams may consider him a more likely sign than they did last year, precisely because he's a senior. Anyhoo...

Suzuki looked good behind the plate in the little bit I've seen of him, but his arm isn't his best tool - I'd call it average. BA named him the third best defender (and best strike zone judgement) amongst collegiate position players in their tools article - that's a good sign.
Gerry - Tuesday, May 25 2004 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#61922) #
http://p086.ezboard.com/fsonsofsamhornbostonredsox.showMessage?topicID=13333.topic
There is a great study on baseball drafts on Sons of Sam Horn.

COMN
_tangotiger - Friday, May 28 2004 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#61923) #
http://www.tangotiger.net
it should always be mentioned that Aaron developed it based on Tangotiger's research

Thanks, but it's not necessary. There are many people who have developed an OPS that weights the OBA properly at the 1.5 to 2.0 level. Mine was just another perspective as to why that should be.

Aaron took that concept, and made it more edible for many.
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