to give Orlando Hudson and whoever the everyday shortstop is next year the occasional day off.

I assume Russ Adams will be the everyday SS, unless there's been some reports to the contrary. Have there been any? I thought J.P. was pretty high on Adams, especially after his great September. Either way, I thought Jason Alfaro would be the backup MI in '05. Maybe this is just for some Spring Training competition, but I'd rather have Alfaro's bat in there instead of McDonald's.

I've heard that McDonald is a good fielder, but is he a Guzman-like "he-can't-hit-so-he-automatically-has-good-defense" player or is he actually pretty good? Honestly, I never heard of him until I found out he was signed today.

When taken together, Frank Menechino and John McDonald (as the new M & M guys?) form one very good player. Mighty Mouse is a stronger hitter, especially against lefties, and John McDonald serves as his defensive side.

As a backup insurance policy for Russ Adams at shortstop, enabling Russ to rest and not wear down over the season, there is real hidden value to a 1960s and 70s style all glove shortstop. McDonald can be batted for in any situation, where a little pop is needed, of course.

Another thing to note is the high demand this offseason for shortstops, inflating their price. That includes the Neifi Perez's of the world, along with the Royce Claytons. That gives McDonald some premium value, and a potential trading chip to a shortstop needy team in search of an emergency stopgap. A bit of decent trade bounty could result, if defence becomes a bit over valued.

Competition for position, and as a role model defensively for Russ Adams, and for other potential utility infielders, makes McDonald more valuable than on the surface. Menechino is a more valuable commodity becaus of his bat, but he does need a glove man too.

I hope the player to be named later is no one of consequence to the Jays.

I don't know who John McDonald is but just by looking at his numbers I'm not impressed.

I don't know how much he makes but I'm guessing it's less than what Gomez's price would be for next season.

The first time I ever heard of John McDonald was at Dunedin in a Blue Jays / Indians spring training game in 1999. Omar Vizquel started the game and played three or four innings. Then this dude wearing a really high number takes shortstop. He goes on to make three absolutely unbelievable plays. He made diving stops to both sides and flashed a very strong arm. I and everyone else was thinking, "Who is this guy?" Of course, he can't hit at all. But defensively, I think if you even asked the Indians, they would probably tell you that John McDonald was the best defensive shortstop they had in Cleveland the last three or four years.

I'm guessing he's not getting much more than the minimum if he even makes the big roster. He can't hit but the Blue Jays don't expect much from him offensively and if he only starts a couple times a month and comes in late for defense, I'm fine with that.

McDonald was plagued by injuries this year. Assuming he's healthy, he's an excellent glove to add to the mix.

McDonald is very impressive with the glove. He's a nice addition to the bench.

Wow, those are some pretty abysmal career hitting stats (.231/.269/.308 in 623 AB. His minor league numbers are a bit better). That's taking good-field/no-hit to the extreme. Here's what ESPN's scouting report has to say:

"If McDonald could hit as well as he fields, he'd be headed for Cooperstown. He makes dazzling plays at shortstop and second base. He has quick feet, quicker hands and a strong arm. McDonald's not as flashy at third base, but still gets the job done. What he has a problem doing is hitting. He swings at too many high fastballs and doesn't hit enough line drives. Power pitchers knock the bat out his hands, yet he hit .283 (13-for-46) with runners in scoring position. McDonald has average speed, but needs to make consistent contact."

I guess the question is, can AL teams afford to carry a player like this? He looks like a superb late-inning defensive replacement, but would you ever want him in the starting lineup? I like this acquisition but the rest of the lineup and bench had better be pretty strong. (JP also seems to be following Theo Epstein's lead in placing a premium on good defense and strategic role players--eg Orlando Cabrera, Doug Mientkiewicz, Dave Roberts. Although as an offensive player McDonald is clearly a notch or two below those players.)

I guess this means that Gomez's time is up. Not sure if I regard this as an upgrade!

If this guy feilds as good as some posters here just mentioned, great pickup for the jays, assuming the player going the other way is no big loss.

McDonald profiles as a late-inning defensive replacement and occasional starter. His bat may be sub-par even by National League standards, but it's still a step up from Dave Berg in terms of having a true gloveman on the bench, particularly with Adams still adapting to the big leagues. If McDonald can serve as a Bordick-like mentor to Adams, all the better. Still, McDonald ought to receive no more than 30 or so starts at both middle-infield spots all season.

Adding a strong defensive presence, minor as this is, might still be a sign that the Jays are focusing on pitching and defence at this point. The Jays clearly are not going to out-club anyone in 2005, and they're not going to out-spend anyone for the better free agents either, so they need to find other ways to compete. A powerful, affordable and increasingly home-grown pitching staff supported by superior defence is one possibility with potential.

Adios, Chris Gomez. He was useful last season in on-base terms, but he slugged .346 in nearly 350 AB, he wasn't likely to improve, and that kind of production is not difficult to replace for less than $1M.

Which brings us to a word of caution on Frank Menechino:

2000: 145 AB, .255/.345/.455
2001: 471 AB, .242/.369/.374
2002: 132 AB, .205/.312/.326
2003: 83 AB, .193/.364/.265
2004: 269 AB, .275/.371/.454

Menechino had a fine 236-AB run with the Jays last season (.301/.400/.504), but it would be very unwise to expect him to approach, let alone duplicate it next season at age 34.

Tough call. In some ways, an AL team can *better* handle someone like this, because they require fewer pinch hitters than NL teams do. Obviously, if you carry 14 position players and only five outfielders, then a John MacDonald is useful if you have a bat to partner him with. Menechino is the bat.

At least he represents a legitimately outstanbding glove. Everyone loves his glove. This means Gomez likely won't be back, which may be too bad, but McDonald may end up at Syracuse.

McDonald ultimately will be a tool whose utility is determined by how he is used and how others are used around him. It's never bad to have a player with an outstanding skill, no matter how bad he is in other areas, if you can leverage that skill sufficiently - and minimize the hurt of what he can't do.

The good news is that we'll be able to ooh and aah some next year.

Plus, what if he does hit? :). OK, maybe I'm dreaming in Techniclolor.

Jordan, four of those five Menechino OBPs are excellent from a multi-position infielder.

Jordan, do you have lefty/righty splits for those years as well?
I'm assuming Menechino will get most of his AB's going up against left handed pitching.

Isn't D a weakspot for the Indians even when they had Omar?

If so why would the Tribe trade McDonald for most likely something useless?

I could be wrong, but for some reason I think Menechino had a bad injury in there somewhere around the middle of the five year period listed...getting hit with a pitch or something? I seem to remember BP making reference to him having a concussion...

McDonald is a very good defensive player. He's can't hit worth a damn though. If he can mentor Adams defensively, he'll serve a role on this team.

Whats the rule on Players To Be Named Later. Can a team just give anybody or is there a rule about it.

Also, I don't see Menechino playing first as he does not have the height or the stretch.

First is somewhat unlikely, but youneverknow. Interestingly enough, Menechino has never played an inning of 1st in his MLB career.

Last year Chris Gomez played 115 innings at first, Howie Clark played 93, and Dave Berg played 40. Playing FM there doesn't seem any more unreasonable than playing these guys.

four of those five Menechino OBPs are excellent from a multi-position infielder

Oh, no question. I'm just saying not to expect a repeat of the power or the average. For $650K, I'll happily take a .250/.350/.385 season from Frankie.

do you have lefty/righty splits for those years as well?

2004 vs LH: .315/.398/.565
2004 vs RH: .248/.353/.379

2003 vs LH: .250/.386/.417
2003 vs RH: .149/.349/.149

2002 vs LH: .185/.290/.296
2002 vs RH: .218/.326/.346

2001 vs. LH: .317/.431/.472
2001 vs. RH: .203/.337/.323

Some of these splits involve sample sizes so small as to be irrelevant, but overall Menechino has shown better production against southpaws. With Orlando Hudson much improved against lefties, however, actually posting an OPS 19 points higher from the right side, a lefty-killing substitute shouldn't be necessary for him (or for Adams, for that matter). For his part, Hinske hit slightly better against lefties in limited action than against righties in '04, so a rough platoon there might not be necessary, either. All of which to say, I wouldn't use Menechino exclusively against lefties on this team -- and in any event, his on-base skills are strong against either type of pitcher.

McDonald, as an excellent fielder, allows Gibbons to put him in when there is a groundball pitcher going, say a Towers or Batista. Halladay gets a lot of GB's but more so to second base. Adams can get a rest when the Jays need a glove more than a bat.

I don't think Adams needs to worry about losing significant playing time here. But it's his first real big league season from start to finish and you have to hedge against him struggling or wearing out. Menechino and Alfaro alone don't provide enough insurance as reliable defensive replacements. If MacDonald sees one start a week at shortstop it will go a long way towards keeping Adams well rested and able to observe a masterful middle infield combo.

I think the Jays recognize the value they got out of Hudson defensively last year and have finally decided that instead of getting a utility player that is mediocore in all categories, it's better to have one that is strong in one. And strong defence at second, short, center, and catcher are important (to varying degrees).

If the Jays' interest in Koskie turns out to be true and they find a fairly good player to handle first, then all of a sudden the weak defensive infield becomes a strong defensive infield. Not to mention Wells, Rios, and Johnson/Gross/PlayerX in the outfield. Defence becomes less of an issue for such a team. Add field turf and more quality pitching and you'll have runs allowed going in the right direction even if runs scored drops even lower.

Now that's quite a bit to assume from the acquisition of just one utility player. But I'm much happier with the shortstop situation this year than any of the past 3 years. The Jays finally look to be above average at the position.

So what do you guys think the Jays should go after?

I feel that if they sign Koskie they should shift Hinske to first, and spend the rest of the money on a quality starter. Basically going the defense/pitching route.

So therefore Hinske first, Hudson second, Adams short, Koskie third, Alfaro/McDonald Utility IF's and Rios, Wells, Johnson/Cat in the outfield. Then have a Zaun/Quiroz catching split with a Menechino/Myers DH split. This leaves the rest of the money to go out and sign a top notch pitcher in the rotation with Halladay, Lilly, Bush and Chacin/Towers. In the bullpen Chacin/Towers, Chulk, Ligtenburg, Frasor, Spier, League & Batista

Obviously keeping Delgado trading Hinske's contract and/or not signing Koskie would be my number one choice, but this is one way to look at things if JP can't sign Delgado and wants to go the "homegrown young pitcher route" in the future.

Signing Koskie without first getting rid of Hinske makes no sense. If Koskie is signed and Hinske is kept, one would have to DH or play 1B. Having Koskie DH might keep him healthy longer, but he's more valuable at 3B.

The rumor is Ricciardi has offered Koskie 3 years, 15 million. There's no way I'd have Hinske and Koskie eating up 28 million over three years combined.

Signing Koskie has to signal the end of Hinske, or no deal, IMO.

I'm delighted with the return of Frank Menenchino. He will make an excellent platoon partner for the Cat out of the DH slot, and as Monty Hall used to say, the price is right.

Although if Franky DHs a lot then you lose his utilitiness off the bench. But a platoon with Hinske or Cat or whomever does seem to be the natural use for him.

Isn't D a weakspot for the Indians even when they had Omar?

If so why would the Tribe trade McDonald for most likely something useless?

I think he just got squeezed out... The Indians should have Jhonny Peralta starting at SS, Brandon Phillips seems to be on the comeback trail after a good season back in AAA, and Aaron Boone will be around next year as well.

Last I read the plan was to shift Casey Blake to 2B to make room for Boone at 3B and let Phillips compete to be a backup INF (he played some SS at Buffalo last year as well as lots of 2B). If Lou Merloni is still hanging around as a backup infielder as well, that's just too many bodies. And I haven't even mentioned Ronnie Belliard either (maybe on the way out via trade).

The Indians really ought to be looking to trade some of their surplus decent young (or youngish) hitters (Blake, Belliard, Jody Gerut, Ryan Ludwick, etc.?) to improve their pitching depth, both bullpen and rotation.

McDonald is the type of player I wish they'd gotten last year, when they had Woodward and Gomez, with nealy identical skills at short, but neither particularly adapt with the glove. If Adams struggles offensively or defensively, running McDonald out there when Doc takes the mound (hopefully low-scoring games) seems like a good idea.

http://www.bluejayscheerclub.com
Useless reason why I love the McDonald signing:

Now I can organize the Cheer Club to have a sign hanging over the edge at every game that says something like

McPutouts:

Over (insert yearly total) Served

and update it in real time. Or we could keep track of McZoneRating or McFieldingPercentage. I’m Lovin’ It!

WooHoo! Never had a chance to do this...Italics BEGONE! Youppi!

To inject some baseball talk into my last few posts, I just read an article by Jack McDowell at Yahoo! Sports and he comments on the steroids issue.

I chuckled this week when my name was added to this year's Hall of Fame ballot. It was an honor, but not at all realistic. But I did wonder what might have been if I hadn't competed against juiced hitters and compared numbers with juiced pitchers.

I have a really hard time imagining that this would have made any difference. After all, the pitchers who played during the same time frame as he did and who are considered HOF pitchers did pretty well regardless. You can't tell me that McDowell would have pitched like Glavine, Maddux, Johnson, Clemens if batters hadn't been taking steroids.

After all, the time frame in which McDowell pitched in (the '90's) is when those pitchers I just mentioned made their legacy (except maybe Clemens). Steroids eating batters do not turn HOF pitchers into non HOF pitchers...

Whats the rule on Players To Be Named Later. Can a team just give anybody or is there a rule about it.

The Jays and Indians have agreed on a player, but it cannot be announced because the minor league rosters have been frozen until after the Rule 5 draft. This also means the player will not be coming from the major league roster...

Some times, such as when Texas trade Carl Everett to the White Sox, the teams agree on a small group of players that can be chosen from and then the other team has time to send their scouts out to look at them and then make the decision from that small group of players.

The McDonald signing is very bizarre, as there isn't the slightest bit of upside to him as a hitter. At least with Gomez you had defence, and a small sparkle of a hot offesive week. Maybe J.P. is really looking to our strerngths last year and building the team around pitching and defence, which of course will mean a rebound year for Hinske and Wells, while Lilly and Halliday have off years. It's a tough call when you're in a division where everything has to go right to win.

A bit off the topic, but with the Giambi steroid "revelation" it looks more and more likely that New York, one way or the other (though I think there's no chance of them voiding his contract) will be shipping Jason out of the Bronx. Their number one replacement would have to be Delgado, wouldn't it? If Delgado became a Yank, all would be lost from a fans poiont of you. Seeing them stuff another superstar hitter in their line-up is one thing, seeing it be our guy would be devastating.

I did wonder what might have been if I hadn't competed against juiced hitters and compared numbers with juiced pitchers.

Your music would have sucked just as bad, Jack, and you'd still have gotten hurt.

Seriously, though, it's an interesting question. Look at someone who didn't take amphetamines in the 70s, say Ken Singleton, versus someone who did, like say Willie Stargell. Would Singleton maybe have hit for more power with the extra "up", and Pops less? Is the "wrong" guy in the Hall? We can't unravel these kinds of questions; I prefer to try to eliminate them as far as possible.

No one considers MLB's drug problems in years past to be matters worthy of comment (well, not unless the player is Dave Parker) when thinking about thigns like the Hall. Not that McDowell is saying we should, of course, but we should be careful if we can not to think about it.

I can't even think about this stuff today. I'm too depressed.

I can't help but think of this every time someone talks about steroids in baseball:

Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?
Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
Croupier: Your winnings, sir.
Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
[aloud]
Captain Renault: Everybody out at once!

Jobu, good luck trying to keep track of the McZone Rating. I think you mean McRange Factor. ;) Good idea, though -- kind of like the "Greg Myers OPS" sign from 2003.

I can't even think about this stuff today. I'm too depressed.

I couldn't agree more.

I must say, I hope that the Yankees don't try and do something unjust like tear up Giambi's contract, especially since (a) they shelled out for his power hitting in the first place, and (b) it would frankly smack of ridding themselves of an injury-prone big-contract guy. I suspect the New York Post would be a tad less vehement if he was still producing at the plate.

I really hope that players and owners work together, rather than against each other, on a new drug testing policy. It'll look really bad if talks bog down. And talks will bog down -- in fact, they ought to bog down -- if the league tries to take away Giambi's money.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594
Bonds admits using steroids, but says he did not know they were steroids COMN

Yeah right, his trainer is dispensing steroids to everyone, (including a number of his team mates), discussing them with everyone, and Bonds is close friends with him and he doesn't know what he is taking.

You are a world class athlete and you just take some substance not even making any effort to find out what it is? Bonds is either the dumbest guy around or a liar. At least Giambi told the truth under oath.

Bonds may have a good case for not being a liar and just being dumb. Did you read his comments in the tsn.ca article?

He even thinks that Caucasian and White people are different.

Maybe these 2 deals signify JP's getting offers for O-Dog that he simply can't refuse...

Could we move the steroid talk somewhere else, like to the thread that doesn't exist?

Not to get too off-topic, but this ...
Caucasian and White people are different.
... is quite accurate, so don't whack on Barry about it.

A is a type of B but not all B are A.

http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00002639.shtml#136posts
Yes, Hijack Central (COMN) seems like the best place for steroid discussions at the moment. So if you could, please feel free to transfer your thoughts on the subject to that thread. Thanks.

Maybe these 2 deals signify JP's getting offers for O-Dog that he simply can't refuse...

Which 2 deals? I think I missed something, but I can't find it up above....could someone let me in on the secret!

Brady21 - the McDonald trade for a PTBL and the Frankie M. signing.

Which 2 deals?

Signing Menechino. Trading for McDonald.

Can't imagine that these deals mean anything at all about Hudson. These are all about filling in spots at the end of the roster.

Ya that's probably why I was confused, those signings have nothing to do w/ Hudson at all. At least I'd certainly hope not.

To those who are depressed or saddened about the BALCO news, did it actually catch you by surprise? Did you believe that Giambi and Bonds were clean?

To those who are depressed or saddened about the BALCO news, did it actually catch you by surprise? Did you believe that Giambi and Bonds were clean?

I didn't know what to think, and though I had my own suspicions about certain people (Bonds and Giambi included) it's depressing to have the worst confirmed, and triply depressing to have everyone in the world ask me about it. And quadruply depressing to know we're going to be having more damn Barry Bonds arguments than ever now. I hate that.

And quadruply depressing to know we're going to be having more damn Barry Bonds arguments than ever now. I hate that.

I'm with you Craig. I really don't want to see any Bonds arguments on here. Who's with me in keeping the box Bonds free?

There's plenty of discussion of that on other baseball blogs.

http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00001128.shtml
And, actually, we kind of canvassed the whole thing pretty thoroughly a long time ago. COMN.

The problem, and this has nothing to do with any particular player, is that no one in the game truly wishes to take the necessary steps to make clear that performance-enhancing drugs are not acceptable and their use will lead to swift and severe sanction.

On keeping the blog Bonds free...
Actually i'm with Jordan that we talk too little about that monster player that happen to be in our era and that his heroics are spectacular.
If you mean to keep this gossip free , i'm all the way with that.

This trade doesnt sound half bad for the Jays. McDonald sounds a lot like Pokey Reese but even less of a hitter and I'm a big Pokey fan for some inexplicable reason. I feel a good defensive infielder is critical to any team off the bench and the Jays got just that.

That's all from the belated West Coast POV

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/Sports/2004/12/03/763502.html
COMN for more details on the Menenchino 2006 option. Well done, JP.

do you guys think that the jays should give the ODOG ORLANDO HUDSON a long term deal like something like three years, cause he brings alot of enthusiasm into the play on the field and to the clubhouse?