I saw Tommy Gregg in spring training in 86 or 87. He looked to me to have the sweetest swing since George Brett. I don't remember whether I had HOF hopes for him, but certainly I saw him as a fine major leaguer. Didn't work out that way.

Todd Zeile
Sil Campusano
Sam Horn
Mike Marshall (the hitter)
Todd Van Poppel
Mike Greenwell
Gregg Jeffries
Kevin Sietzer
Chris Sabo
Mike Paliarulo
Ben McDonald
Dan Pasqua
Pete Incavilia
Matt Nokes
Greg Brock
Ron Kittle
Billy Beane

I was shooting the breeze with a Marlins scout at Camden Yards in 1995. I remember him telling me that Karim Garcia would be "awesome" and that Wilson, Pulsipher and Isringhausen would "bring a pennant to Shea."

He also told me, to my chagrin, that Nigel Wilson had "ballooned" and would "never be anything but fat and lazy."

Marc Newfield as a second I mean third Griffey.

I remember thinking that Jon Nunnally and Angel Miranda were both on their way to stardom.

Back when the Jays played two spring training games in Skydome every March -- whatever happened to that, anyway? -- I saw a hulking youngster named Domingo Martinez crush a pitch off the Windows restaurant and thought I was seeing a new Jays slugger. Traded for Mike Huff in '94, I never heard from him again.

Do I hear GlenAllen Hill?

Hey, you try putting up All-Star numbers while being chased by giant spiders. It's damn tricky.

Matt Nokes

When he was playing in the Northern League at the end of his career in the late-90's, he attacked the mascot of the Winnipeg Goldeyes during a game. I forget the exact reason why.

Jordan, I think you were dead-on; if my math is right, this Domingo Martinez kid ended up with a better career HR/AB ratio than Aaron or Mays.

Brewers pitcher Jose Nieves, 1992 ROY Pat Listach
Jays '87 number one pick pitcher Alex Sanchez, Jose Nunez (Jays 87-89), Junior Felix
Mike Caruso (more than 160 hits at the age of 21, out of ball for a few years now and just turned 27).

TOR, a Google search indicates Nokes was "tired of Goldie pounding on the visitor's dugout" but that later in the season the two "shook hands and made up."

Peace, love and mascots.

Sparky Anderson had a tendency to tout anyone with an iota of talent as a future All-Star. Torey Lovullo anyone?

Eddie Zosky. Heck, while we're on Toronto shortstops, how about Alex Gonzalez. "He'll be in the upper echelon of shortstops, right there with the big-3".

Wasn't Kevin Maas supposed to break a tonne of Yankee records? I think his biggest claim to fame now is that you can still hear his name in an old Seinfeld episode where Jerry's watching a Yankee game.

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
I always liked the way Toronto announcers tried to include Gonzalez with the "Big-3" shortstops, always hastily adding the minor caveat "except for his offense."

In 2001 while he was managing, Buck Martinez called Gonzalez one of the best young players in the game, despite Gonzalez being 28 at the time. If Jesse Orosco had been on the team, Martinez probably would have said he was in the prime of his career.

Brien Taylor was supposed to be "the next thing". Didn't he ruin his arm/shoulder in a pubfight? Afterwards my ToppsRookie Card went down faster than new economy stocks

Some good ones mentioned already. (Marc Newfield. Ouch)

Phil Plantier! (Didn't the Sox have another power-hitting OF prospect at the same time, who also bombed out?)

Brent Gates!
Tim Naehring
Sandy Alomar

Wil Cordero? Looking at his record, he did better than I'd thought, though he looked like a future HOFer to me, at the time.

Ruben Sierra might've been eligible if his career ended after his not-so-glorious stint in Toronto. MVP runner-up at 23. Washed up at 31.

A Ruben Rivera almost broke up my Scoresheet Baseball league, so highly was he regarded.

Oh, and the litany of failed pitching prospects. In addition to those mentioned already like TVP, and Big Ben:

Sam Militello, Jimmy Haynes, Roger Salkeld.

Oh, and my first favourite Blue Jay (Otto the Swatto) certainly deserves to be in the Hall of Pretty Good!

(Oh, and that was supposed to say a Ruben Rivera trade )

Domingo Martinez was a victim of circumstance. As a first baseman, there was no room for him with the Jays, so rather than forcing him to age in Syracuse, the Jays' brass did the lad a favour by trading him. Unfortunately, they traded him to the White Sox. Rumour has it there was a pretty good first baseman already in Chicago.

Martinez ended up playing baseball in Japan, until retiring a few years ago.

Remember back in the early 90s when the Jays would play a couple of spring training games at the Dome?

One of those games a guy named (I think) Gerry Schuntz hit a monster home run and made a couple of incredible defensive plays. I was ready to put all of my allowance into his rookie card. I don't think it worked out for him.

And Derek Bell part of the very first team of killer B's.
Regarding Karim Garcia he certainly would be a superstar if not for becoming an alcoholic at the tender age of 22...

I'm not sure if Kal Daniels and Ted Higuera is what you had in mind.

But, I remember Montreal touting Angel Salazar as the best SS the team ever produced.

A scout said that Condredge Holloway was the best SS ever scouted.
Anyone know anything about that?

I remember thinking Rob Ducey would be great if he just got a shot. Then when he finally appeared to get one he ran through the outfield wall at Skydome and was injured 8P

Doug Linton was another guy I thought would be something special, but instead his Dunedin teammate Pat Hentgen took off.

Steve Davis won 20 in the minors/majors for the Jays in '85, first guy to do so in the Jay system, but he never did much in the majors (57 IP, 6.44 ERA over 3 seasons).

Matt Stark was a personal favorite. Sadly never got his chance after getting hurt after making either the '87 or '88 team in spring training (28 ML AB's). Always thought he'd have been a good power hitting catcher. What is funny is I did a search for him and found out he has a page on ESPN as a Yankee (never played for them). Hmm... how did I live without Google... he was the hitting coach for the Isotopes in 2004. Lost in the Rule 5 draft in '88 (Atlanta took him).

Luckily the one guy I though would be something, so much so I bought his first (I think) minor league card as part of a team set from St. Catharines (1989 set) did something along with his teammate, Carlos Delgado along with Jeff Kent. Quite the team with those two eh?

Speaking of whatever happened to... does anyone know the status of Damaso Garcia? I think he had major surgury a few years back for a brain turmour iirc. Hopefully he fully recovered. One of my favourites in the mid-80's even if he wasn't the type of player a stat-head should enjoy (never walked, stole a lot of bases with a mid-level success rate, one heck of an attitude too).

A scout said that Condredge Holloway was the best SS ever scouted.
Anyone know anything about that?

Larry Doby said this, I believe. Doby worked for the Expos at the time... in 1971 the Expos drafted him onthe first round, but they couldn't sign him and he went to the University of Tennessee.

Oh geez, Derek Bell. He might have helped cost me a job with Stats Inc. back in the early 90's. After I graduated university with a stats degree I applied there and had an interview in Chicago. I was asked by a couple of the people there what I thought of Derek Bell. I told them he was a good prospect but would never get to play regularly under Cito Gaston. This was early in 1992. Everyone there seemed to think Bell was going to be a fantastic player and that I was nuts to think he could be benched. I was right of course (Cito play a rookie when he has a vet to play instead...yeah right) although that and $14 will get me into a movie. Luckily I didn't get the job though as I'd probably have been layed off in '94 and who knows what would've happened then.

I just found this quote:

=== As a shortstop, he was offered an $80,000 contract by the Montreal Expos in 1971 and signed it — but it wasn't valid because his parents refused to endorse it, too. "Baseball was my first love — I never even would've played college football. But my mother (Dorothy) knew the value of an education," he said. ===

I just spent the last 15 minutes googling
"Condredge Holloway"

Some great memories for you CFL fans...

http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
I remember my #1 draft pick Alex Sanchex O-Pee-Chee rookie card never amounted to much. Gary Scott was a Cubs 3B who was supposed to be something special and wasn't and Hensley Meulens was much touted as the "Yankee prospect" - I believe he was their only one - of the early 90s.

Chris Latham. All I heard on TSN in 2001 was how this guy was a great HR-hitter, once on pace for about 20 homers in AAA. I thought he was going to be huge. Then he got claimed by the Mets in Spring Training 2002 and I never heard about him again.

Turns out he was in Japan in 2003 with a .221/.301/.443 line until he was signed by the Yankees and appeared in four games, with two at bats. Can't find any 2004 stats on him, but damn, I thought he was the next great corner outfielder. He actually played all three outfield spots.

Hensley Meulens

Bam-Bam. Which automatically leads me to Drew Henson, and the tall Australian Mark Hutton.

I never thought Drew Henson would make it. Strangely, though, I don't think he should be written off as a football player yet.

Oh, geez, Kal Daniels!
Growing up in Ohio, all you ever heard was how Daniels, Eic Davis and one of the Pauls (Householder, then O'Neill) were going to be the 1980s Reds answer to Griffey, Geronimo and Foster (or before that, Rose, Geronimo and Tolan).

Yeah, didn't happen.

After two years and at 23, Daniels had a career average of .330 with 32 homer, 41 steals and and insane OPS+ of about 155. Riverfront astroturf had him out of Cincy a year later and out of baseball by 28. So sad. He was a butcher in the OF, though.

Does Ben MacDonald count? I tried to build a Roto team around him once...

How about Eddie Zosky??

I never thought Drew Henson would make it. Strangely, though, I don't think he should be written off as a football player yet.

Absolutely not; Jerry Jones thinks he got Troy Aiman II there. But it can't say good things about your career path when you're behind 73-yeard-old Vinny Testaverde and similarly untested but undrafted Tony Romo on the depth chart.

i have this great book of prospects from 1990 that listed each's team's 'best' prospects at the time: being in middle school, i trusted the book as a great source. Looking back on it now, they really named some dogs.

for the jays, such immortals as alex sanchez (i remember watching the game he started and sucked it up that the jays came back from 10 runs down against the red sox. i lived in new england at the time so i had bragging rights), mark whiten, luis sojo, jimmy haynes, dennis hall(?) and denis boucher. ah, denis boucher. never did amount to much.

of course, they named a couple winners too: juan guzman and some kid named olerud they just drafted who looked so promising...

the other biggie i remember is good ol' Kevin Maas. Wow, he flamed out.

Felipe Lopez...although he could still turn into a decent ML player. He was Tejeda and Jeter and A-Rod all wrapped into one.

I remember hearing about how amazing Kevin Orie was going to be at third for the Cubs; Ron Santo said that Orie was better than he ever was...boy, they sure had me fooled.

Also, I remember reading back in '93 that Sparky Anderson said one of his pitchers reminded him of Bob Feller and so I started buying this Greg Gohr's rookie cards. oh well

George Arias- he had some AAA stats that would have rivaled Beltre this year

Chris Latham? He was a minor league free agent. He was never more than a journeyman. I don't anyone had any expectations from him.

I don't think anyone had any expectations from him.

I would have to vote for Ben McDonald - he was as hyped as Prior was coming out of college.

Cito play a rookie when he has a vet to play instead...

This is one of those persistent Cito Gaston myths. Gaston certainly had his shortcomings as a manager, and all managers prefer proven, experienced major leaguers. But being unwilling to play young players was not one of them.

In fact, Derek Bell broke camp in 1992 as the starting RF, not Candy Maldonado. Bell was injured in the first game of the year, was out for more than two months, by which time Maldonado and Carter were fairly well established at the corner OF spots. By which time as well, Toronto was in a very close pennant race and Gaston kept Maldonado in the lineup.

Nevertheless, Gaston was always willing to put rookies and/or unproven young players into the lineup. Sometimes it worked (Junior Felix in 1989, John Olerud in 1990) and sometimes it didn't (Carlos Delgado and Alex Gonzalez in 1994). Sometimes the young player couldn't handle the entire job (Shawn Green year after year kept hitting .220 through July, at which point Gaston would give up and start platooning.)

OK, the issue at hand. Anyone remember Lance Dickson?
Many more players became regulars for the first time in their careers with Gaston at the helm than during the preceding Cox-Williams era combined.

Eddy Zosky was supposed to be the next great shortstop but......

Brian Milner was another who supposedly had a great future

While a buddy of mine was buying up all the Ken Griffey Jr. rookiecards he could find in 1989-1990, I decided they were too expensive so I was buying big lots of Tom Gordon cards instead. D'oh!

Gordon turned out okay, but he was supposed to be the next Doc Gooden, who was supposed to be the next inner circle Hall of Famer.

I also thought that Bob Hamelin would be the next great white slugger so I was buying up his 1990 Upper Deck card. He turned out to be quite a bust though I was somewhat vindicated by his 1994 ROY award.

On the upside, I told anyone who would listen that Roberto Alomar, not Sandy, was the card to be buying, and I did pretty well with that. In the late 80's I bought quite a few 1982 and 1983 Cal Ripken Jr. cards, and those skyrocketed in the mid 1990's. So there were a few hits that went along with the many misses. :)

Many more players became regulars for the first time in their careers with Gaston at the helm than during the preceding Cox-Williams era combined.

Williams sure, but Cox? How about a counting of players who get their first regular job during Cox's 4 year tenure:

Upshaw
Mulliniks
Barfield
Bell
Fernandez

I didn't include Whitt, because he was 29.

As for Gaston and Green, check out the 1995 and 1996 daily logs for Shawn Green on retrosheet. In 95, he'd been platooned from the get-go. After going .280/.325/.509 in 378 ABs and with only 68Ks as a 22 year old in 1995, he was given the everyday job to start the season in 1996. He was pretty good in April 96 and struggled in May, by June, Gaston had him back in the platoon role. I think that the criticism of Gaston on this score is merited.

Whatever happened to Sam Militello, Yankee fans? For those who weren't around at the time in the early 90s, he tore through each level of the Yankee minor league system with a winning percentage over .800 and well over a strikeout per inning and good walk rates. He reached the majors at age 22, and had 9 pretty good starts in 1992. He made 3 appearances in 1993, and lost the rest of the season to arm trouble, and was never heard from again.

I didn't include Whitt, because he was 29.

I'd include Whitt anyway, and I'd mention Garth Iorg as well.

For Jimy Williams, you have Gruber, McGriff, and Fielder (platoon. sort of.) You sort of have Manny Lee, except Williams didn't really believe in the concept of a regular 2B.

For Gaston, you have Borders, Myers, Olerud, Liriano, Lee (at SS for sure), Felix, Hill (platoon), Sprague, Delgado, Gonzalez, Green (platoon). Shannon Stewart became a regular in August 97. Derek Bell and Sandy Martinez didn't quite work out.

Cox was the first guy to put Jim Gott and Jimmy Key in the rotation; Jimy Williams made Jeff Musselman a rotation starter. Gaston made regular starters out of Juan Guzman, David Wells, Pat Hentgen, Todd Stottlemyre. (You could argue for Cerutti and Leiter, but I think its flimsy...)

As for Shawn Green, its exactly as you said - he was platooned as a rookie (which was sort of the franchise tradition - just as Barfield and McGriff were platooned before him) and then handed the everyday job to start 1996.

McGriff moved out of the platoon role in his second year, and Green got the chance to do the same thing. But in 1996 Green hit .247 in April with 3 HRs and 9 RBI, and then .189 in May with 0 HRs and 6 RBI. Gaston began sitting him against LH when they ran into Key and Pettite in early June. With LHP out of his way, Green hit a little better in June (.267, with 3 HR and 10 RBI). After 80 games, Green had played in 66 of them, batting .233 with 6 HR and 25 RBI. Meanwhile, there was a rookie OF (Robert Perez) who was hiting .309 and just happened to be a RH hitter. It would have been hard not to let Perez play a little, and Perez promptly went on a tear in July, hitting .487 to lift his BAVG up to .361. Hitting for average was all Perez could do, but when he's doing it that well, you kind have to let him. And without LH pitching to trouble him, in the final 82 games, Green played in 66 of them, hitting .329 with 5 HR and 20 RBI.

In 1997, Green actually started the year as a platoon player. Hey, Jesse Barfield didn't move out of the platoon role until his fourth season. Once more Green was OK in April (.250 with 4 HR and 7 RBI). But once more he went straight into the tank in May (.200, 0 HR, 3 RBI). To make Shawn's cup of joy complete, the Jays had traded for Orlando Merced in the off-season, and Jose Cruz in mid-season. Joe Carter and Otis Nixon were still around, and Shannon Stewart was Ready to go, and just waiting for Otis Nixon to be sent on his way. Green spent the rest of the year scrounging ABs at DH, RF and LF.

In retrospect, its obvious that Joe Carter hung around at least two years past his Best By Date. And there was never any reason at all to waste time with Merced and Nixon. I thought at the time that Merced was a useless pickup, and that Stewart should have been the opening day CF in 1996 (when they brought in Nixon.)

The organization did a lot of dumb things back then, and they kept right on doing them the next year. Tim Johnson stuck Green in there everday and left him there - it was Stewart and Cruz who found themselves in and out of the lineup while Canseco and Tony Phillips gallumphed about in the outfield....

Gosh, I go on and on. Anyway, I always thought Gaston got a bit of a bad rap on Green. I thought he tried more than once to make him a regular, and Green would stop hitting as soon as he did.

Hey, what about Brad Komminsk?

If you believed the hype from baseball cards, these were destined to be "Future Stars":

Gregg Jeffries, Rickey Jordan, Kevin Elster, Todd Zeile...

Remember the hype that Twins draft pick rhp Willie Banks once had?

He even had a feature on This Week In Baseball.

He turned out to be a fringe journeyman pitcher.

Remember back in the early 90s when the Jays would play a couple of spring training games at the Dome?

One of those games a guy named (I think) Gerry Schuntz hit a monster home run and made a couple of incredible defensive plays. I was ready to put all of my allowance into his rookie card. I don't think it worked out for him.

Jerry Schunk. What a career he had that day. He also had a line single that almost took the pitcher's head off.

The one I got wrong was Vince Horsman. The Jays brought him up at the end of one year but didn't pitch him much. I don't know if I thought he was going to be great, but I certainly thought he was more promising than the nondescript righthander they kept bringing into games ahead of him. I was wrong, because the nondescript righthander turned out to be Pat Hentgen.

The one player who jumped out at me was Todd Van Poppel, who was being touted as the next Nolan Ryan. I bought into the hype by buying way too many of his rookie cards. They're right next to my pile of Jarmo Kekalainen cards.

I was young when these guys came up, so they were probably no moe than journeymen and I didn't realize it, but one year (around '98 or so I think). The Jays brought up a couple pitchers who pitched really well at first, Huck Flener and Marty Janzen. Janzen especially I thought was a stud. Where is he now?
Angel Martinez also never worked out. I remember years ago going to a Jays game and seeing him as the starting catcher and remembering how he was supposed to be some huge prospect who was going to be the Jays' catcher of the future. Last I checked he was behind Randy Knorr on the Expos depth chart.

I had Bob Hamelin as a Rookie in my Roto, did ok for ONE YEAR.
Then he went the way of Marty Cordova,

Which brings to mind that a LOT of ROY's probably fit this category,
- Todd Hollandsworth
- Scott Williamson
- BEN GRIEVE
- Pat Listach