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Who killed that bird out on you window sill?
Are you the reason that he broke his back?
Did I see you laugh about that?

Orioles 9 - Jays 1

  1. Recaps:
    • Spencer Fordin:

        Every so often in baseball, real life intervenes.

        Ballplayers are well compensated to leave their personal lives away from the field, and they succeed an overwhelming portion of the time. But not always: Justin Miller had one of those human moments on Monday night, when he pitched just one day after the death of Richard Cuadillo, his grandfather.

    • Gary Washburn:

        It was a payback of sorts for Bruce Chen. The Orioles left-hander thought he was going to get a legitimate shot to make the Blue Jays rotation this past Spring Training. Instead, Toronto coaches privately didn't think much of Chen's ability and he was shuttled to Triple-A Syracuse.

        Four months after being acquired by the Orioles for cash considerations, Chen returned to Toronto on Monday and tossed his first Major League complete game in a 9-1 romp at SkyDome. It was Chen's first win since April 21, 2002, while with the Montreal Expos.

    • Shi Davidi:

        Chen allowed just a run on five hits in the first complete game of his career, striking out five and walking none. The only run against him came on Vernon Wells' RBI triple in the sixth.

        "I just wanted to win," said Chen, whose last victory came on April 21, 2002. "It's my first win in such a long time. To give this team a complete game, especially after we used 10 pitchers yesterday, it was huge for us."

    • Larry Millson:

        Meanwhile, Chen didn't allow a baserunner until, with one out in the third, Guillermo Quiroz was given credit for an infield hit on a grounder that shortstop Tejada knocked down. But the Jays couldn't get anything going as the next batter, Adams, hit into a double play.

        The second Blue Jays hit came with two out in the fifth inning, on a line drive to left by Eric Hinske. Frank Menechino singled to centre before Quiroz ended the inning on a fly to right.

    • Geoff Baker:

        Gibbons wasn't kidding about the difficulties of playing from behind, since the five-run Baltimore outburst seemed to transform the much-maligned Chen. With the early cushion, a pitcher who was the butt of spring training jokes — and didn't see a fence he couldn't allow opposing hitters to hit the ball over or off of — held the Jays to a borderline infield hit by Guillermo Quiroz until the fifth inning.



  2. Fordin Notes on J.P.'s plans for first base next year as well as the new contract given to Frank Catalanotto:

      Toronto inked Frank Catalanotto to a two-year deal worth a total of $5.4 million, with the amount split evenly between the two seasons. It is the first multiyear contract of Catalanotto's career, a feature that made it easy for him to waive a shot at the open market.

      "It's very important. That's most of the reason you want to sign multiyear deals -- you want to be more secure and more comfortable," he said during a conference call from his home in New York. "For my family, this is an opportunity to be set up for the rest of our lives. I'm just happy J.P. wanted to do a multiyear deal."

    We've been discussing the new contract in our "Cat Power?- Frank Catalanotto re-signed for 2 years" thread. Despite all the accusations the Batter's Box has gotten that we're a moutpiece for the organization and a zombie-like cult, a number of Bauxite staffers are less than supportive of the new deal while still being fans of Catalanotto.

  3. Not surprisingly the Catalanotto contract is the main Jays story in the Toronto newspapers. In Catalanotto gets extension" Shi Davidi gives his take:

      At this point, the Toronto Blue Jays do not see Frank Catalanotto as a solution at first base should Carlos Delgado leave as a free agent after the season.

      They do, however, see Catalanotto as a key table-setter at the top of the lineup, which is why they signed the outfielder to a two-year, $5.4-million US contract extension through 2006 on Monday.


  4. Mike Rutsey adds to the Catalanotto discussion with "The Cat will be back":

      Why the rush with Catalanotto? For one thing, the Jays need veteran hitters and Ricciardi doesn't see a whole lot of affordable bats among potential free agents. The non-tender route is the one he'll travel to get some thump in the lineup.

      "The biggest ripple we're going to see is in the non-tenders," Ricciardi said. "The free agents, it's a lot of guys we like that we can't afford."


  5. Jeff Blair gives his two cents:

      Catalanotto, 30, joined the Blue Jays before the 2003 season, and while eligible for free agency, made it clear that staying in Toronto was his first choice.

      "I was very comfortable with the organization and the city," Catalanotto said. "J. P. really stuck his neck out for me, and showed that they really wanted me."

      Catalanotto said he will begin his off-season conditioning program after four-to-six weeks of rest. He has been told that it typically takes 10 weeks to recover from the surgery.

  6. In the last of our Cat articles we have "The Cat signs on for two more years" by Mark Zwolinski of the Star.

      Frank Catalanotto was asked yesterday why he would return to the Blue Jays instead of testing the value of his near .300 lifetime average on the open market.

      After all, the Jays have one of the worst records in the majors and have little prospect of major improvement next season.

      "I'm very comfortable with Toronto, with the organization, the city and my teammates," Catalanotto said yesterday after signing a two-year contract extension that will pay him $2.7 million in each of the next two seasons.

  7. Today's Rutsey Notes has details on the Catalanotto contract, Josh Towers, and Russ Adams:

      Russ Adams made the start last night at shortstop despite the fact the Orioles had left-hander Bruce Chen on the mound.

      In his seven previous games with the Jays, Adams, who bats left, has batted .429 (9-for-21) with one homer and 4 RBI. In those games he has gone 0-for-3 vs. left-handers.

      Adams has impressed Gibbons with his smooth adjustment to the major leagues. At no time has Adams appeared wide-eyed or overmatched since being called up from Syracuse.



Off-Day - No Game Tonight
Jays Roundup - Baby, Baby Why Can’t You Sit Still? | 74 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_SF - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#12540) #
Off-days come on just like a dream. They're always the remedy this hack wants and needs.
Joe - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#12541) #
http://me.woot.net
And now to beat a dead horse.

Firefox 1.0 Preview Release is now available. If you're at all concerned with spyware, viruses, pop-ups or other annoyances and dangers, I highly suggest you give it a whirl.

Get Firefox!
Named For Hank - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#12542) #
http://imdb.com/title/tt0083943/
And you can control it with your mind, but you have to think in Russian.

COMN
Named For Hank - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:12 AM EDT (#12543) #
Hey, is this the first time Fordin wins a cuttlefish?
_Jordan - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#12544) #
My condolences to Justin Miller and his family. I wonder, however, if sending him to the mound the day after his grandfather's death was the wisest course of action. I'm sure Miller was more than willing to take the ball, but in the result, it's reasonable to think that he simply wasn't in the game; the decision to pull him after the first inning suggests that John Gibbons also came to that conclusion, a little belatedly.

I'm glad to see Adams get a start against a lefty. The Jays have about two more weeks to see what they have in Adams, and they need to get as much of the whole picture as they can during that time. If they decide Adams can be their starting shortstop in 2005, that could change their entire off-season approach. I imagine the jury is still deliberating about his overall defence.

I saw Chen pitch for Ottawa against Syracuse earlier this year, and he looked nothing like this. Then again, Miller threw a one-hit eight-inning shutout in Anaheim last week, and the Angels batters must have been muttering the same thing about Justin at the time. Chen has had flashes of brilliance before, and I'd need to see about a month of strong starts like these before I begin thinking Chen has finally turned it around. I don't think the Jays need start worrying about the one that got away.
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#12545) #
Hey, is this the first time Fordin wins a cuttlefish?

I believe so. Fordin wins 200 million points for cleverly identifying Remedy by the Black Crowes, as well as a picture of a lovely pharao cuttlefish (Sepia pharaonis):



If you're at all concerned with spyware, viruses, pop-ups or other annoyances and dangers, I highly suggest you give it a whirl.

What if you're concerned with people spamming ads for browers on message boards? What do you do then? :)
Named For Hank - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:21 AM EDT (#12546) #
Moffatt, you ban their IP.

LET THE BANNINGS BEGIN!
_SF - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#12547) #
Sweet crustacean -- or whatever the hell that thing is. And here I thought the much maligned Firefox was my prize for waking up before you guys on an off-day.
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#12548) #
Moffatt, you ban their IP.

That'd be mean. I was just going to change the slogan on Joe's Firefox ad from "The browser you can trust" to "The browser for people too cheap to pay for Opera". :)

Back on topic: Who's on first next year? The $2.7 mil per will probably crowd Delgado's contract out unless the Jays raise payroll or are content with having Adams as their shortstop next year. Should make for an interest off-season. I'm not sure what's going to happen.
Joe - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#12549) #
http://me.woot.net
Oooh. NFH always said that Firefox was bad, but I didn't know it was 17% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes bad.
Joe - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:26 AM EDT (#12550) #
http://me.woot.net
No way $2.7 million crowds out Delgado's contract. I fail to believe that Rogers can't eat the $500k that is Catalanotto's raise for next year.
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#12551) #
Sweet crustacean

It's a cephalopod, not a crustacean. Crustaceans are arthropods and not cephalopods because arthropods have chitinous exoskeletons and taste good when drenched in butter.
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:30 AM EDT (#12552) #
No way $2.7 million crowds out Delgado's contract. I fail to believe that Rogers can't eat the $500k that is Catalanotto's raise for next year.

In isolation, it's not a big deal. But you have to add that to all the other raises that are due to players. Then it's an issue.

When looking at the team as a whole I just don't see how a big contract at first will fit under a $50-52 million dollar payroll, unless you're pretty content not upgrading at many other positions.
_SF - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:30 AM EDT (#12553) #
I knew there was (at least) one reason that I'm a sportswriter and not a marine biologist. If I had just strapped on that scuba tank like Ma wanted -- instead of the batting gloves for Pops -- this world might've had it's first Hebrew answer to Jacques Cousteau.
Named For Hank - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:32 AM EDT (#12554) #
And here I thought the much maligned Firefox was my prize for waking up before you guys on an off-day.

Those of us whose jobs are not writing about baseball still have to go to work on off-days.

So why are you up so early?
_SF - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#12555) #
Noon deadlines on off-days, my orange-shoe wearing friend. The life of a working sportswriter isn't all free popcorn and soda. Although, to be fair, that takes up a LARGE portion of my gameday fare.
Named For Hank - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#12556) #
And yeah, Joe, it's really that bad. You wouldn't think a Clint Eastwood movie with a thought-controlled invisible jet could be boring, but oh, it's so boring.
Joe - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#12557) #
http://me.woot.net
I was just going to change the slogan on Joe's Firefox ad from "The browser you can trust" to "The browser for people too cheap to pay for Opera". :)

Only hippy capitalists use Opera. :)

(Anything but Internet Explorer is fine by me!)
Named For Hank - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#12558) #
The life of a working sportswriter isn't all free popcorn and soda. Although, to be fair, that takes up a LARGE portion of my gameday fare.

Okay, now you're just taunting us. Moffatt, take back his cuttlefish!
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:47 AM EDT (#12559) #
The life of a working sportswriter isn't all free popcorn and soda. Although, to be fair, that takes up a LARGE portion of my gameday fare.

Okay, now you're just taunting us. Moffatt, take back his cuttlefish!


I spend a great portion of my work day pretending to be a marine biologist and going to Tim Hortons. I can't be too jealous of Fordin's gig.
Joe - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#12560) #
http://me.woot.net
I just don't believe that the Jays' ability to sign Delgado changed yesterday. If they were able to sign him before Catalanotto's contract, I think they're still able to sign him; if there wasn't enough in the budget to pay Delgado's salary before Cat, which seems the more likely scenario, this hasn't changed that at all.

Rob in yesterday's roundup counted up the salary obligations for next year, which are by his reckoning $29.450 million. This leaves a little over 20 million to go.
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:00 AM EDT (#12561) #
This leaves a little over 20 million to go.

For 18 roster spots. Obviously many of those will be filled at the minimum, but it's going to be pretty hard to fit a $10 million contract in there. Not that they necessarily should try.

Given that the difference between Cat and a Ken Phelps All-Star is $2.4 million, that could end up making the difference.

Even before the Cat deal I didn't think Delgado was coming back. Someone will sign him for decent money plus Delgado would be a 5-and-10 player if he comes back and I'd rather not have a big money player on the roster that I absolutely could not trade.
Mike Green - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:25 AM EDT (#12562) #
It's a cephalopod, not a crustacean. Crustaceans are arthropods and not cephalopods because arthropods have chitinous exoskeletons and taste good when drenched in butter.

Whereas cephalopods are sumptuous with rice, wasabi and (perhaps) seaweed and accompanied by a little pickled ginger.

I just don't believe that the Jays' ability to sign Delgado changed yesterday. If they were able to sign him before Catalanotto's contract, I think they're still able to sign him; if there wasn't enough in the budget to pay Delgado's salary before Cat, which seems the more likely scenario, this hasn't changed that at all.

Here is the Dugout dollars calculation. There are increased commitments for 2005 over 2004 to Batista, Catalanotto, Halladay, Hinske, Ligtenberg, Lilly and Wells totalling $11.9 million. There will be reduced commitments for Terry Adams, Delgado and Hentgen totalling $22.4 million. One presumes that Orlando Hudson will get a raise from his current $320,000 salary. At this point, it is not at all clear whether the 2005 budget will be more than, less than or equal to the 2004 budget.

What does seem clear to me is that given the size of the Jay budget, salary differences for individual players of 500K to $1 mil matter, whereas for the Yankees or Red Sox they barely do.
_Blue in SK - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:25 AM EDT (#12563) #
I stand corrected, in yesterday's thread about the Cat signing I said that I thought the signing was a contingency plan for 1st. And today, JP states (for the first time, I think) that his preference is to bring back King Carlos.

When asked previously, I can't recall a time when JP replied with anything other than "the numbers have to fit" or something to that extent. For me, his comments today are great sign - I now firmly believe that Carlos will be back next year and retire as a life long Blue Jay and (hopefully) also the first home grown Jay's HOF.

Maybe a 3 year, $27M deal? Does anyone know what Ortiz signed for? Would he be a good market comp (other than age)?

So Cat's in the bag, Delgado signing has potential, and JP wants another bat with power (RH DH/OF?) and a SS, plus pitching help. That's a busy off season.

Anyone know the deadline for non-tenders? It's relatively soon after the WS, isn't it?
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#12564) #
Anyone know the deadline for non-tenders? It's relatively soon after the WS, isn't it?

I think it's around the middle of December. Jose Cruz Jr. was non-tendered by the Jays on December 20, 2002, so I imagine it will be around the same time this year.
Pistol - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#12565) #
Anyone know the deadline for non-tenders? It's relatively soon after the WS, isn't it?

It's after free agency starts. I believe it's in early December (although I may be confusing that with the arbitration deadline).
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#12566) #
Does anyone know of a list of players that are likely* to be arbitration eligible this year? If there isn't one online, perhaps the Batter's Box should make one.

* Likely since there are a few players who may or may not fall under the Super 2 classification, such as Josh Phelps.
Pistol - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#12567) #
Does anyone know what Ortiz signed for? Would he be a good market comp (other than age)?

2 years, $12.5 million total.

If I look at his career it looks like this upcoming year would have been his final arbitration year, so while not the best comparible, it's not a bad one either.
_Blue in SK - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#12568) #
Thanks Moffatt, Pistol. I recall some media getting on JP for non-tendering Cruz because it was so close to Christmas.
_Blue in SK - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#12569) #
Thanks Pistol, for the info re: Ortiz.

The reason I asked that question was because one of the articles today referred to Delgado having to be cautious about not signing too far below market value for fear of upsetting his union brothers. So IF Ortiz, is a reasonable market comp (albeit on the low side), then Delgado could sign a deal in the $8-10M range for multiple years without fear of union reprisal (not that he could be swayed one way or the other).
_Jordan - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#12570) #
I don't wish to throw cold water on the parade, but I simply cannot see Delgado settling for $8M-$10M a year. He's been red-hot the last month or so and will finish 2004 with very respectable numbers. He will have multiple bidders for his services, including a few teams with very deep pockets. He has never shown any indication that he would sign for less than his maximum market value (nor should he). And unlike David Ortiz, he has a lengthy history of top-level production that gives him greater leverage. He won't see $18M again, but he will receive more than one offer in the $12-$14M range, and for more than four years. Unless the Jays can match that -- and I think they neither can nor will -- he will not be back with the team next year.
_Gwyn - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#12571) #
I agree Jordan. I think $12-$14 million might be on the high side, but I'm sure Carlos will receive at least one offer for significantly more than the jays can afford.
Which clubs are expected to be in the market for a marquee first baseman ? Im the AL I can see Baltimore, Anaheim and Seattle being interested in Delgado. I'm not sure about the NL.
_Magpie - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:26 PM EDT (#12572) #
The life of a working sportswriter isn't all free popcorn and soda.

Sonny, back in the day when Labatts owned the team, the life of a sportswriter was free beer and hot dogs. Those were the days, I tell ya.

he (Delgado) will receive more than one offer in the $12-$14M range

I agree. The Orioles are obviously trying to shed their obligation to Palmeiro. The Yankees can't be certain what they still have with Giambi. The White Sox could be interested - if Reinsdorf was willing to pay for Albert Belle... The Mariners have some cash and a lineup full of holes.

The Angels should be interested, but probably won't be. Delgado's a much better player than Erstad, but they love Erstad anyway.
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#12573) #
Im the AL I can see Baltimore, Anaheim and Seattle being interested in Delgado.

There's always a few dark horse candidates as well. Who thought A-Rod would end up a Ranger?

For AL dark-horse, how about the Tigers? After all, they did sign Pudge last year. The Red Sox are another candidate, depending on how things shake out with all their pending free-agents. Maybe Tampa Bay could use another veteran in the clubhouse.

The NL is less clear. The Pirates could use him, but I can't see them spending that kind of money. Same with the Braves. What about the Giants? They'd be a good match.
_Scott Levy - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#12574) #
This is Kelvim Escobar Part Deux. "We want Kelvim back". Did anyone believe that from JP at the time? He elected instead to sign a 33-year old to a 3 year deal where JP will save (brace yourself!) five million over three years, or 1.6 million a year. Big whoop. We got a worse pitcher, someone more likely to become an albatross due to age, and passed up on someone in his prime, and all that for 1.6 million of savings per year over the next 3. Welcome to small budget baseball.

You can be sure JP will spend the money evenly around 4 or 5 players instead of signing Carlos. JP said he wil be looking at the arbitration eligble/non-tendered players, which means we won't be getting a player that much better than Cat to play 1B.

Sorry for the negativity today, but this is frustrating for me. Losing Carlos is going to sting, a lot.
_Jacko - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#12575) #

The Angels should be interested, but probably won't be. Delgado's a much better player than Erstad, but they love Erstad anyway.

Where would Delgado play?

Guerrero (OF)
Guillen (OF)
Anderson (OF)
Salmon (OF)
Erstad (1B/OF)
Kotchman (1B)
Glaus (3B)

Unless Salmon retires, the Angels have no room for Delgado. And put in Salmon's position, I would not walk away from 9.75 MM in guaranteed money.
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#12576) #
someone more likely to become an albatross due to age

Batista is 33 not 43. Pitchers generally don't decline due to age that quickly. Not until they hit their late 30's.

There are all kinds of valid reasons to decry the Batista signing but age shouldn't be one of them.

If Batista *does* become an albatross it'll be due to injuries that are not at all related to age.
_SF - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#12577) #
I was just lording my cuttlefish over Wilner, but he says he won one back in June. Is this true, (C)eeper of the Cuttlefish?
Pistol - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#12578) #
And Dallas MacPherson
_Moffatt - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:39 PM EDT (#12579) #
I was just lording my cuttlefish over Wilner, but he says he won one back in June.

Afraid so. You're at best second in the cuttlefish club. Depends if Griffin and Baker have been playing under assumed names.
_Jacko - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#12580) #

And Dallas MacPherson

I was going to throw his name in my list as well, but he's IMO he's irrelevant to there being room for Delgado next year.

McPherson is likely going to start 2005 in AAA. If/when he's called up, the Angels are not going to displace Erstad/Kotchman at 1B if he can't handle 3B. I suppose they could try him out in the OF, but like I said before, there ain't much room.
_Jim - TBG - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#12581) #
http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
I wonder if Delgado will even see a $10 million offer. Deep pockets or no, a lot of teams are set at first base, and owners are much more budget conscious than they used to be. There are also other tasty free agents out there, like Pedro and Beltran, who will command attention from contenders before Delgado. And I doubt Carlos will want a situation where he is a pure DH.

I know that it only takes one rich guy on a Monte Burns longevity treatment bender to sign Delgado to a ridiculous deal, but looking around the majors, I just don't see that perfect fit that cries out "he's going there."
_Wildrose - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#12582) #
I like the Cat signing. The Jays don't operate in a vacum. Virtually every team now has a Keith Law clone scouring the numbers for a Ken Phelps all star,or an undervalued potential free agent. The market for mid -level value hitters has become very tight.

Coming off an injury J.P. is buying a commodity that has become under-valued on the open market. My sense is that the Jay's have done a lot of due diligence. It seems to me most guys who have a "hockey groin" in the NHL make a full and complete recovery.

This team needs good hitters, by any measure the Cat when healthy is such a creature. Coming off an injury he took some financial security ("I'm set for life now")over perhaps a higher salary on the open market,in a place he likes to be. Good deal for everybody.
_Mike Wilner - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#12583) #
In truth, Spencer does have a 1-0 cuttlefishic advantage over yours truly. I did get the song right back in June (a great a-ha classic, it was), but I was awarded a picture of the great Leon Joseph (Bip) Roberts. You Bauxites took the time to find a more personal prize to give me, which I appreciated then and continue to appreciate now. And now I see it means you like me more than you like Fordin. ;-)
_Jordan - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#12584) #
As frustrating as I've found Batista to be the past several weeks, I don't think he's been a washout, nor should he be considered an albatross at this point. At the beginning of August, Batista's record stood at 9-6, 3.97, with opponents batting .239 against him; he looked like a pretty solid investment. After a rough debut in April (shared by the whole team), Batista posted a 4.46 ERA in May, 1.93 in June, and 3.92 in July. It's been August and September that are wrecking his season, largely because of walks. In all three of his bad months, his command has deserted him: in April, August and September, his BB/K is a horrific 44/29. But his stuff is still very good, and with time and good coaching -- cutting back to four pitches would be a good start -- I'm still confident that he'll come back and be a reliable starter. He's been disappointing overall, certainly, but I'm not ready to write him off yet.
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#12585) #
Like many Blue Jay fans, I've been thinking long and hard about the 1B situation; I've been thinking about what I want to happen, who I want JP to get, etc. I've considered numerous possibilities from inside and outside the organization. I've thought about using a whole lot of money on one big bat (Sexson, Glaus) or dividing up the money between good players at several positions.

And, after much consideration, I've decided there is only one man I want to see playing first for the Jays next year:



I'm going to miss him. :-(

Oh well. Personally, I see him going to Baltimore. Raffy looks like he's done, and the O's are (again) going to have a lot of money freed up that they are (again) probably going to blow. Obviously, I hope he doesn't go to Baltimore because we'd then see him like 20 times each season, but it's the picture I get in my crystal ball.

Hopefully he goes to LA or something. Then maybe DePo can trade Choi to the Jays for Chris Woodward :shifty:
Named For Hank - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 01:03 PM EDT (#12586) #
Steel Cage Match: Wilner vs. Fordin.

Winner wins the hearts and minds of the readers of battersbox.ca.

GO!
_Jim - TBG - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#12587) #
http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
Steel Cage Match: Wilner vs. Fordin.

Having competed against Mr. Wilner and his Purulent Boils of the old Goosh Baseball League, I have to give him the edge. The man is a shark. Watch out for eye-gouges Spencer.

Is it time for Batters Box to start a "Bring Back Carlos" Campaign? That seems to be the concensus around here, and this is the most influential Jays fan site on the net, which is roughly akin to being the best Police Academy movie, but it might be worth a shot.
_Marc - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#12590) #
Ugh. Choi at first base... now there is a scary thought. He can join Hinske and Cash in the "slowest bats in the Toronto" club.

I think Adams (albeit briefly) has shown that he could be ready to step in opening day at short with the Jays. Along with a Chris Gomez veteran backup.

I have also been very impressed with Crozier's limited appearances. His defence appears to be better than advertised and I would love to watch Hudson and him compete for foul balls on the 1B side of the field. Perhaps he could do similar to what LaRoche has done in Atlanta... with Catalanotto playing a Julio Franco role.

Surveying the free agent market I don't know if there is really a bat out there that could help the Jays (that they can afford). Their best bet may be to make a trade. I also suggest former Jays farmhand (and current Jay's killer along with Teixeira) Jay Gibbons as a possible non-tender signing to play 1B/DH and backup in the outfield. I almost cried when he wasn't protected on the 40 man roster and Baltimore drafted him.
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 01:30 PM EDT (#12591) #
Eww. Jay Gibbons would be worse than Choi.
_Marc - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#12592) #
Eww. Jay Gibbons would be worse than Choi.
Gibbons, who is only 27, drove in 100 runs last season and was injured this year. Choi is not a proven run producer.
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#12593) #
He "drove in 100 runs" because he batted fourth.

NameAgeOBPSalary
Gibbons27.313$3,000,000
Choi25.357$310,000
_Daryn - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#12594) #
"We" kind of figured that the Jays needed 4 bats, a starting SS, a DH, a 1B and a "4th OF/DH/1st Swing man", ....

JP says they expect 2 bats, and they signed Cat.. Given Gibbons quotes on Adams I assume they expect him to start in 2005.

so we are down to a DH and a 1B as I see it... or a 1B and a Dave Berg.... and of course a top of the list Reliever

Of course we need to resign, a few like Zaun/Gomez/Menechino/Speier types... but things are pretty well locked up for 2005.
_Marc - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#12595) #
The above stats are misleading. Gibbons is having an off season due to injury, which is why I think he would be a good sign. He has a proven history or being a run producer, he's young and his salary will be going down because of the off year. Choi, whose numbers are nothing to write home about, represent a career HIGH. And scouts are not predicting much better things from him. Choi is the second coming of Josh Phelps with more walks but similar strikeout rates and problems making consistent contact. Plus if Gibbons is non-tendered then it will cost the Jays nothing to obtain him, unlike Choi.
Pistol - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#12596) #
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/040914townsend.html
Here's an interesting story on Wade Townsend. He signed with an agent AND returned to Rice to finish his degree, but won't be part of the baseball team. COMN.

There's a possibility that because of that he'll get put back into the draft next year.
_Ryan Day - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#12597) #
Gibbons isn't really that impressive. He's 27, and over his career has hit 253/313/449. Even prior to this season, his OPS was just around .780; decent for a middle infielder or a bench player, but nothing to write home about.

What's funny, too, is despite our memories of him as a Jay-killer, he really hasn't been that great vs. Toronto: 261/301/485 over the past three years. A bunch of homers, but not much else. Worse, he only hit 238/256/381 at Skydome.
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#12598) #
I would still take Choi over Gibbons. No way would I pay Gibbons 3mil, "proven run producer" or not.
_S.K. in N.J. - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#12599) #
If we're talking about potential non-tendered players, the one that jumps out at me is Carlos Pena. There were rumblings that the Tigers have soured on him. He is hitting .249/.343/.467 with 20 home runs this year, and he's only 26. IIRC, a few years ago Ricciardi was close to trading Carpenter to Texas for Pena, back when Pena was a stud prospect, so there may be some interest should Pena be non-tendered or even for a trade.

Pena will probably never live up to his minor league hype, but he's a good defensive 1B, and he's improving in some important categories (BB/PA, BB/K, ISO) while playing in a pitcher's park. The only problem is that if Cat is the DH, than Pena (or whoever we sign that's not named Delgado) would have to hit 30 bombs to make up for the lack of power throughout the lineup. That's a lot to ask.

The Catalanotto signing is giving me a strange feeling that Gross is going to be dealt. In the article about Cat's signing, Ricciardi mentioned Cat playing left, and so did the author of the article (whether he was basing that on what Ricciardi told him or just as a prediction, I don't know). Gross will be 25 by opening day and has done more than enough to prove he deserves a shot. Something doesn't add up.
Dave Till - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#12600) #
I can see the Jays trading Gross for pitching, much as they did Werth.

I can't begin to guess what Delgado will do. There are three possibilities:

- He wants to get the best deal possible, even if it meant going to a team that is not likely to contend next year (e.g., Baltimore). I don't think Delgado is particularly money-oriented at this stage of his career, but it's hard to turn down millions of dollars (and there's no reason why he should).

- He wants to play for a contender, and go to the postseason. Of course, there's only about four or five teams that are pretty much guaranteed contenders: the Yankees, the Red Sox, Atlanta, Oakland, maybe the Giants and Dodgers. And some of those teams already have first basemen.

- He is willing to take a home-town discount and re-sign for the Jays. I agree with Jordan that someone is likely to make Delgado an offer he can't refuse - but I think that J.P. is going to make an honest effort to sign him (more than he did with Escobar), and a deal that is close to market value could very well land him.
_greenfrog - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 05:32 PM EDT (#12601) #
One problem is that it only takes one deep-pocketed owner to blow up the market for Delgado (the same thing happened with Escobar last year). The Jays can do some hard number-crunching and offer Delgado a finely-calibrated $9 or $10 million or so per year, say over three years, but if the Braves/Dodgers/Yanks offer him $13 or $14M/year, the Jays can only hope for the hometown discount--which Delgado has already said is not on offer.

One question to ponder: when in Jays contend (in, er, 2007), will Delgado be worth having around @ $10 or $12M per year? I wonder whether his production/defense/injuries will be justifiable at that point, ie, just when the team needs some payroll flexibility to get that extra stud pitcher or hitter to put them over the top.
_Andrew S - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 05:33 PM EDT (#12602) #
Seems unlikely to me that Delgado gets more money than Thome makes. All things considered.
_greenfrog - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#12603) #
Thome signed a six-year, $85M contract. That's $14.2M per year. If Delgado gets, say, a $40M contract for three years ($13.3M per), he's still getting less than Thome--a lot less, if you look at the length of Thome's contract.
_Ron - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#12605) #
Ironically I could see a "swap" between the Tigers and Jays.

I read somewhere the Tigers are going after a middle of the order bat (Delgado) while they might non-tender Pena.

I don't expect Pena to break the bank and he should come fairly cheap. He's a player I wouldn't mind seeing on the Jays as long as JP is also bringing another bat and who is a better player than Pena.
_greenfrog - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#12606) #
Can't imagine the Rangers trading Teixeira. And even if they would consider it, can you imagine what he would command in return? The farm, basically. He's one of the best young hitters in baseball: he's 24, his OPS is .945, and he makes $2.6 million.
Thomas - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:32 PM EDT (#12607) #
I keep attempting to watch video on mlb.com. After I click on the link to the video, it buffers to 100%, and begins to play but no picture appears in my media player, and I can only hear the sound of the clip.

Does anyone know what the problem is and how I can see the video?

Thanks.
_Dr. Zarco - Tuesday, September 14 2004 @ 11:50 PM EDT (#12608) #
Thomas, try clicking on preferences (right below the black screen) and switching to Real Player instead of Windows Media, or vice versa. That's the only thing I can think of. Perhaps you can try switching web browsers too.
_Jobu - Wednesday, September 15 2004 @ 01:01 AM EDT (#12609) #
Anybody still up and checking the site? Im ever so bored...

PS. Congrats to the World Champion Canadian Hockey Team. You done good boys.
_jsoh - Wednesday, September 15 2004 @ 01:28 AM EDT (#12610) #
http://www.lansinglugnuts.com/press_box/press_release_archive/pr9_14_04.htm
Sorry if this was discussed on another thread - I've been a leeetle bit busy with the film festival - but has anyone heard of the new A-ball Jays affliate - the Lansing Lugnuts (COMN for press release)? Seems like Lansing is displacing Charleston in the hierarchy.
Thomas - Wednesday, September 15 2004 @ 01:30 AM EDT (#12611) #
Thanks for the tip Dr. Zarco, but unfortunately that didn't work. They continue to seize up after they finish buffering (often without even playing the audio), no matter which preference I use.

I'm using Firefoz as my browser.
_Fozzy - Wednesday, September 15 2004 @ 02:01 AM EDT (#12612) #
Thomas, I have real troubles getting flash and other assorted plug-ins to work with Firefox. So as much as I love it, I still have Internet Explorer on my computer, so when a misbehaving site comes up, it's a copy and paste of the address into IE. It may help you, or it could be that you're missing some video codecs, which should be solved by making sure your windows software is updated. Windows Media Player is version 10 now, I believe.
Joe - Wednesday, September 15 2004 @ 07:29 AM EDT (#12613) #
http://me.woot.net
I really don't want to piss anybody off with my Firefox talk, but I do want to mention that one major feature of the just-released version of Firefox is a Plugin Finder Service. For this reason, Fozzy, your Flash problems with Firefox are over - Firefox makes it dead easy to install (just click on the missing plugin).

As for the video codec problems: I have never had any good experiences with Windows Media, ever. I don't use Windows, though.
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