I asked this on the other thread, but perhaps it fits better here. Who did the Jays remove from the 40 man roster? DeLos Santos to the 60 day DL?

Side news: Jesse Foppert could be returning from his TJ surgery, less then a year, not to the majors but rehab assignments, heres hoping Dustin is a quick recover too.

MNNR, as far as we can tell, the transaction has not officially been announced by the big club (just by the Fisher Cats). So no word yet on who's waving goodbye.

I like this. If I'm going to have to watch Clark and Berg platoon at first, then getting to see Peterson in Toronto is a nice consolation.

Is the Peterson call up a temporary or permanent move? That is, will he be sent down after someone comes off the DL?

With all the young relievers now in Toronto, could it mean that Speier,Adams and Lightenberg are all on the trading block?

Wow, that's a lot of strikeouts.

I guess the big question with Peterson is whether he'll be intimidated by major league hitters or not. Some farmhands seem to wilt a bit when they realize that it's [insert name of famous star] up there at the plate; others (like Frasor) seem to just keep on doing what they do.

I wonder how long before (Peterson) makes his first appearance? (Loveshack asked this on the Roundup thread, but the comment vanished)

The Fisher Cats scheduled an 8:30 a.m. press conference this morning, so they must have known yesterday, which suggests that Adam could already be here. Though I have absolutely no knowledge of his travel schedule or the team's plans, I would guess that he's unlikely to get into tonight's game. There's no reason he couldn't be used tomorrow, though.

They're not going to take save ops away from Frasor are they? (Mosely's query, also devoured by a software glitch)

You can be certain that will come up in the media scrum with Tosca this afternoon. Spencer Fordin will have those quotes on the Official Site before I can share them here, because he has a laptop and Internet connection in the press box, and I don't. You can also listen to Mike Wilner's live updates on The FAN before the game. That's where I get my breaking news when I'm not at the Dome.

My guess? Peterson will be used in the sixth or seventh inning for a while. If he does OK, they'll try him in the eighth. Ultimately, he's a lot more of a closer "type" than Frasor, but he'll have to prove he can get big league hitters out before that role is handed to him.

MNNR, designating Estalella for assignment/outrighting him could be another option to clear room for Peterson.

Pistol if it were a temporary thing I think they might have called up Frederick or used the 7 guys they already have. The pen overall is pretty fresh, especially after a day off so it's not like it was an emergency. I would guess Peterson's here to stay provided he performs.

Are Speier, Ligtenburg and Adams on the trading block? Probably but there isn't likely much of a market for them right now either.

Confirmation might be on the FAN 20/20 update at 11:20. Wilner has a daily update around 2:45 as well, for those who can't wait until the pregame (i.e., me). :)

How does it work, I dont believe Estalalalalala can be designated till after he is recalled from the 15 day DL, but yes that makes the most sense.

not Ryan, you're right, I totally forgot Estalella had been put on the DL

I think it's pretty disappointing that we can find news like this on the Fishercats' website, but there's naught to be found on the Jays' website. If the Jays' AA team can put together a notice on their site, why can't the Jays themselves, who surely have more resources to devote to it? Even something simple like "We promoted Peterson. This is how he pitched at AA."

Anyway. This is a bold move, but I like it. Peterson may get knocked around for a a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's closing by the end of August. The bullpen is shaping up surprisingly well with Frasor, Chulk & File, and Peterson should be a nice addition.

I'm not sure I like this move. Why couldn't he go through AAA first? Oh well he's got the arm, now we just have to see if he can use it properly.

If the Jays' AA team can put together a notice on their site, why can't the Jays themselves, who surely have more resources to devote to it? Even something simple like "We promoted Peterson. This is how he pitched at AA."

Because they haven't announced the move yet! As far as we know, the Blue Jay who's going down might not have been told yet.

Give them time!

I asked the guy who runs the site why I always found news everywhere else but that site, his response was he posts it as soon as they give it to him. That includes pictures of players, You can find pictures in Jays "hats" elsewhere, but on their site they sometimes are behind. He put the blame on the organization that runs all of the mlb sites. The ole, its not my fault routine.

I don't have a problem with him skipping AAA, my only real question is: was there a need to bring up another reliever right now? This gives them a total of 8 relievers (Frasor, Chulk, File, Adams, Kershner, Speier, Nakamura and Peterson) and 7 of them are righties. With off days and the starters generally going deeper into games, the pen isn't exactly overtaxed right now. Unless one of the relievers is going on the DL or is sent down (Nakamura?), I would have favoured bringing Pond back up. It's hard for me to see everyone getting work. Strange timing.

This move really makes me think that Rios is up for the year. If that's the case, I'm happy with it.

I wonder if Peterson will be used as a LOOGY to start. I know his overall numbers are great but his numbers against lefties are phenomenal. I wouldn't be against it--for his few outings anyway.

Anyone have Peterson's lefty-right splits from last year?

Because they haven't announced the move yet! As far as we know, the Blue Jay who's going down might not have been told yet.

Well, it's obviously been partly announced. And it doesn't look like this is a spur-of-the-moment emergency move; there seem to be a lot of moves in the works, some of which we've found out about and others we haven't. You'd think they'd at least organize some trickle-down announcements: Jays, Fishercats, D-Jays, Alleycats. Besides, it always seems to work this way.

He put the blame on the organization that runs all of the mlb sites

I understand that one, actually. I never really liked the idea of MLB running everything; makes it all a bit homogenous, and obviously creates information gaps like this one.

My guess is File goes down. Their bench is thin enough as it is, and for all of our complaints about Dave Berg, he's more useful to us than an 8th releiver. I don't think the Jays would go with 8 in the pen, and they're not going to send down Speier, Ligtenberg, Adams or Kershner. Frasor and Chulk are pitching well and I doubt they'd call up Nakamura and not play him. File's pitched reasonably well, but his numbers aren't great, so I suspect he is the one being demoted.

Maybe Peterson is good in the outfield as well as being a reliever?

Actually he did blame MLB he blamed the organization that does the sites, apparently a completely different entity, hence the reason they don't know the moves.....As for Nakamura not playing, last year the Jays called up Mike Smith twice and he never played.

And also, Nakamura's a better pitcher than File is. 29/3 K/BB ratio in Syracuse compared to File's 6/4.

I wouldn't have thought bringing a guy up and sending him back down was very smart until SOMEONE in here posted the link to Rob Neyers Primer on Transactions.... now I understand that options run out after the third year, so why not....?

Robert, Here are Peterson's New Haven left-right splits, and there are his Charleston left-right splits. Small sample sizes obviously, but it's clear that at a minimum he doesn't have a particular problem with lefties.

There's a difference between sending someone down and designating them. Peterson is not on the 40 man so someone has to be dropped. J.F. Griffin? Nakamura has been embarassing AAA hitters. He has nothing to prove down there.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/minors/stats/2003/fsldunedinltrt/
Yikes, I forgot that Peterson played in Dunedin too last year. COMN for his left-right splits there. Too bad that SI.com is not providing the same service this year.

With the number of good young arms the jays are starting to compile in the bull pen you have to wonder if Brandon League would not be better suited to starting again.

I still think Santos goes 60 day, but if not, someone help me, what prohibits them from calling up McGowan and placing him on 60 day? Is it just a service time issue?

Someone mentioned this earlier, but had we guessed who'd be the first Ricciardi draftee to hit the majors, I would not have said Peterson; Adams or Bush made far more sense. This really surprises me; can anyone remember the last time the Jays promoted someone from Double-A straight to the majors? I've been saying Peterson was overdue for a promotion, but I didn't think they'd make the kind of two-level jump that I often criticize other organizations for doing. I have to think this promotion is meant to be permanent, i.e., not a brief fill-in call-up. Whether it turns out to be permanent will depend on how Adam performs in the next three months.

On the positive side, Peterson is already 25, and he clearly needed to be challenged after ripping up the Eastern League. But there are a whole lot of caveats that need to be raised here. The first is inexperience; despite his age, Peterson has thrown just 119 professional innings at four different stops. He has virtually no historical record of any statistical significance to draw upon. Second, although he's been striking out a ton of guys, his command has not been sterling: 10 walks in 28 innings this year, and a 39/119 BB/IP ratio over his brief career. That's a 0.32 ratio; by comparison, David Bush is at 0.17 as a starter, a level higher. Peterson is going to walk quite a few guys when he first hits the majors, and command issues out of the bullpen can be very frustrating for everyone concerned. Third, he's still not going to get a lot of innings: I agree that he'll probably be slotted into 6th-inning duty to start with, in order to keep the pressure off him as much as possible; but it's hard to get comfortable in a spot-relief role, and if he has one bad outing (which he most certainly will, in the next ten days), it takes longer to get over. This is going to be a baptism by fire, and I hope he's up to the challenge.

Regarding the bullpen as a whole, I have no idea what's going on there, but a trade of one of the veteran arms seems likely enough. The Royals just dealt Jason Grimsley and the Red Sox signed Curt Leskanic, so there's a market right now for recognizable names out of the bullpen. Adams is the likeliest candidate, though I don't expect the Jays would get anything other than a handshake in return. But don't second-guess the veteran signings in the off-season too quickly; Jason Frasor wasn't on anyone's radar in January, and File, Chulk and Nakamura have been pleasant surprises in limited action so far.

Despite my trepidation about this move, I'm also genuinely excited by it: having the first Ricciardi draftee hit the big leagues is a huge milestone for this organization. I fully expect to see Bush and Adams in Toronto by August at the latest, and who knows what other surprises are in store? Enjoy it, and be patient with Peterson: he's got the arm, but he's got a steep learning curve ahead of him right now.

Maybe Peterson is good in the outfield as well as being a reliever?

Having watched him shag fly balls, I can assure you that is not the case. Adam was having a lot of fun out there, but he's a brutal outfielder. :)

Another press release from New Hampshire: Vermilyea has been promoted to replace Peterson in Double-A.

what prohibits them from calling up McGowan and placing him on 60 day? Is it just a service time issue?

I don't know for certain, but I suspect that's the case. They'd also have to pay him a major league salary instead of the minor league salary.

apparently Gammons is saying Cat to stlouis for Brad Thompson, Thompson is not on Stl 40 man, IF< and its a huge IF when speaking of Gammons, That is a move that is made, we still need to get Pond up to replace Cat.

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=39626
COMN for the Union Leader report on the Adam Peterson press conference. Peterson was at the press conference and will be landing in Toronto at 1:30 pm today.

This really surprises me; can anyone remember the last time the Jays promoted someone from Double-A straight to the majors?

Corey Thurman might qualify, although the reason he did it was because of the Rule 5 draft.

IIRC, Tom Davey made the Jays opening day roster in 1999 after only getting as high as AA the previous year. He's the last non-Rule 5 guy I can recall making the jump.

I highly doubt Catalanotto was/will be traded to St. Louis considering that he's injured and likely out for a significant period of time with a hamstring problem.

Regarding the other moves: I like Vermilyea to New Haven. He's been stronger lately after a mediocre start, and it will be interesting to see if he struggles with the promotion the same way Brandon League did. I'm slightly surprised that Bubbie Buzachero didn't (yet) get the call to move up, especially with Brian Reed now in Dunedin, but it might be further indication that the Jays view Bubbie as more of an organization man. But we'll see; the moves aren't done yet.

I like all of the Charleston promotions; those four are pretty much who we all thought would get moved up. I'm expecting good things from Marcum and Roberts (though don't expect Ryan's power to manifest itself much in the FSL), and I think James is going to surprise some people. I'll be very interested to see how Reed is used by the D-Jays.

Regarding the Jays bullpen situation to me, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Speier to the A's sounds like a good match to me, especially if JP views him as too expensive to be worth it in 2005 and beyond. Beane's got to be getting desperate watching his pen right now, Speier's a good pitcher, his dad's a coach there and JP and Beane manage to make trades that work out well for everyone involved.

Jordan, I guess the same could of been said of Andy Torres, he really impressed last year, but ended up spending almost half of 2004 back in Dunedin. Guys like Bubbie and Torres, just got to battle to prove their worth.

They called Dewayne Wise straight up from AA two years ago. But of course he already had some major league and AAA experience prior to that year.

Dewayne Wise, i saw him playing for the Braves the other day on TBS. Guess he is still good enough for a fill in.

I also forgot to mention the Isenberg demotion, which has to be a disappointment for both him and the organization. In hindsight, it's easy to say Isenberg shouldn't have bypassed Charleston to open the season, but he was dominant at Auburn in 2003: virtually 1/1 K/IP ratio and 1.00 WHIP. Interestingly, although he gave up tons more hits and didn't strike out nearly as many people in Dunedin, his BB/IP ratio (20/60) there was almost exactly the same as from his Auburn debut. An odd fact, but one that gives some hope that he's basically getting killed on pitches that used to strike batters out last year, and that he hasn't just lost it.

Isenberg had a lousy senior season before he was drafted, which most of us forgot about when he pitched so well in his pro debut. Those concerns will resurface now. But he's quite young (he only turned 22 in January) and left-handed, and the Jays are clearly trying to help him regroup. I think he'll work it out and come back.

In Ash's day it was not unusual for players to be called up from AA. Escobar comes to mind and with inferior numbers to Peterson. I think we have to be careful in using Peterson's career minor league stats. About half-way through his stint in Charleston early in 2003 he turned it up to another level. Since that time his numbers are a lot better though the 10 walks in 28 innings this year is concerning.

Something else to keep in mind regarding promotions: the Blue Jays have to think about their minor-league clubs too. For instance, I would've loved to have seen Davis Romero promoted as well, but the Alley-Cats just had their two best pitchers, ace reliever and leading hitter ripped out of their lineup. That's the nature of a farm team, of course, but an organization has to respect the on-field and attendance needs of a minor-league franchise and help it to compete. Charleston is having a tremendous season, one made all the more special by how badly they struggled last year. They won't be as good in the second half, but at least the Jays have left them with enough good players that they can continue to compete. Ditto for the other clubs. It's a delicate balancing act.

Marcum starts tonight for Dunedin. Dunedin Subtracted Isenberg and Vermilyea, and replaced them with James and Marcum, Perkins should still have a spot in the rotation.

Dewayne Wise, i saw him playing for the Braves the other day on TBS. Guess he is still good enough for a fill in.

Wise is actually hitting the ball with some power; he's hit .242/.266/.450 as a Brave. It's not really enough to make him useful as anything more than a fifth outfielder, and there really wouldn't have been any way to keep him in a Jays uniform, but it would have been nice to still have him around this year with all the injuries!

...but it would have been nice to still have him around this year with all the injuries

Indeed, the moral of the Blue Jays' 2004 season appears to be that you should never trade or release anybody unless you're certain your team is composed of indestructible cyborgs. :)

Indeed, the moral of the Blue Jays' 2004 season appears to be that you should never trade or release anybody unless you're certain your team is composed of indestructible cyborgs. :)

LOL

I love the revisionist history that some use to view player's careers and how they could still be useful to the Jays. Example, Chris Carpenter. Yep, the Jays should have paid him for three more ineffective/rehabilitation years so they could ride the wave now.

unless you're certain your team is composed of indestructible cyborgs. :)


wasn't there a nintendo baseball game where all the players were robots? anyone remember what it was called?

While I don't know the name of the game, dp, I do remember that that game was great. I used to have so much fun playing it back in the day.

Basewars was the game (at least, the good one). We covered it a couple weeks ago. (Shouldn't there be an FAQ for this sort of thing?)

DaveInNYC: It was called Basewars.. awesome game =)

I'm most surprised by the fact that Taublado hasn't been promoted. I know that the small sample size rule applies but his .381/.444/.733 line in the FSL no less is pretty crazy. Due to injuries its only in a little over 100 AB's. His age dictates that its time to move him. Dunedin now has both Roberts and Cota. They both can't play 2nd so moving one of them to 3rd may be a necessity to get them both in the line-up. It seems only natural to move Taulado to New Haven. Frankly, New Haven could use the offense as well.

Hey DaveInNYC-

Not to screwwith your self-identity, but I'm also a Dave, also in NYC. Hitting up any of the Yanks-Jays games? All my Yankeefan friends tell me they're available real cheap because no one here cares about the Jays, and all the people with season tix give them away...

Heh, on the Fan 590's 20-20 update:

"...and sources tell the Fan that the Blue Jays have called up their closer of the future, Adam Peterson..."

Sources, eh?

Sources, eh?

That's Boston speak for "sauces". Don't know what they're putting in the pasta at Alice Fazooli's, though. :)

Anyone know if any of the call ups this year got any good old fashion rookie hazings? I remember Hinske having to wear a dress and not being to thrilled about it. Did Rios and the rest get away scott free this year?

http://www.dunedinbluejays.com/team/transactions.php
COMN for the D-Jay website confirmation of their moves. The only addition: Santo Valdez was released.

I think that had Tablado stayed healthy throughout April and May, he certainly would've been called up; he's really interesting. But the organization probably wanted him to continue solidifying his approach at the plate; a jump to Double-A so soon after breaking out might have set him back. They might as well be patient with him, but if he does very well this year, he'll certainly open 2005 in New Hampshire and could move quickly from there.

Santo Valdez was released.

Wow ... I'm more than a little surprised by that. His numbers this year were skewed by one horrible appearance, and he still maintained a respectable BB/K ratio. In fact, his BB/K rate has at times been very strong through his career. And he only turned 22 in March. He's not the player I would have expected to be released when the promotions took place. Meh.

With Ryan Roberts joining Cota and Tablado, does this mean that Tablado will be playing short for the time being?

I'd certainly prefer if he was promoted to New Hampshire, rather than being moved to a position which challenges the limits of his defensive ability.

I'm with Jordan about Santo Valdez. It's not like he is a great prospect- he's a 22 year old relief pitcher who is scuffling a bit this year in the FSL- but I still see him as a prospect. I'd have much preferred if Bubbie Buzachero had been promoted and John Ogiltree, say, had been released.

That's pretty crazy dp!

;)

To answer your question, yes I will be hitting up as many Jays/Yanks game as possible.

To see as many as I can, I go for either the real cheap upper deck seats (which aren't too cheap anymore at close to 25 $) or the bleacher seats which are only 8 bucks a pop. Problem with the bleacher seats is that they get pretty hectic in there if your NOT a Yankee fan, but for the most part things don't get too bad.

Can't wait!

Mike - I absolutely agree with you on your preference. I would far rather see Taublado challenged at a higher level than screwing him around by moving him to an unfamiliar position. The one caveat would be if the Jays see him long term as a SS. However, given Hill and Adams and a lack of thirdbase prospects anywhere in the system, a permanent move to SS seems very unlikely.

DaveInNYC-

Check on Craigslist for cheap tix. A lot of people hawk their extra season tickets there....

Considering the lack of third base prospects I found it interesting that the Jays converted Ryan Roberts from 3B to 2B. He was rated as one of the top fielders at third last season in Auburn and he seems to have enough pop in his bat.

Tablado, needs to have sucess for once. There is no need to promote Tablado anytime soon, especially with only 30 games or so under his belt this season, let him have some fun, and put up some numbers.

Why Does Jp Dislike Buzachero? His Numbers Are Outstanding And His Name Alone Would Sell Merchandise! I'd Buy A Blue Jays "Buzachero" Jersey!

I wonder if there isn't a fear that with the lousy hitting environment in New Hampshire that the call-ups might lose their confidence easily.

Kershner designated for assignment.

Now I really don't understand the move to bring Peterson up.

This reminds me of the day that they decided to punt Scott Eyre for no good reason that I could think of at the time and in retrospect is an even bigger mystery. Eyre has gone on to post an ERA+ in 2002 (for the brief time he was there) of 240; in 2003 of 129 and this year his ERA of 3.38 would make his ERA+ (just eyeballing) of around 130. In other words, vastly superior to any of the other LOOGY's the Jays have had in the past 2 years. I'm not saying Eyre is the "missing link" but occasionaly I sense that JP has an itchy finger (see: Eyre; Lyons; Harper).

Santo Valdez was very effective as a starter in Charleston during the 2002 season. The Blue Jays even called him up to Syracuse at the end of the year to make a couple of starts and he did respectably. For some reason, he was then shifted back to a reliever. One horrible outing skewed his stats this year. Maybe another team will give him a chance.

Re: the Eyre move JP basically said that Hendrickson was getting older and they needed to find out if he could pitch at the big league level to sort out their plans for 2003.

As to why they necessitated designating him for assignment instead of trading him or getting rid of someone else, I'm not sure.

Santo Valdez, had been impressive but he took a big step backwards last year, especially in the k category, still IMO it was too early to give up on him. A demotion to Charleston, seemed like the logical move, but with JP going pitcher crazy the last draft, there is alot of depth.

This:

Kershner designated for assignment.

and this:

Now I really don't understand the move to bring Peterson up.

?

Kershner is a completely fungible middle reliever. Even if you throw out his two spot starts, he was giving up a .300 BA and doing a pretty terrible job getting lefties out. Time to move on and give someone else a shot.

I'm a little puzzled about Nakamura's inability to get MLB hitters out -- he completely dominates AAA hitters. The only possible explanation I can think of is that MLB hitters are possibly a lot better at hitting junk, which Nakamura throws a lot of because of his below average fastball. Then again, there have been other successful guys in the majors who didn't (don't) throw hard. Doug Jones and (Jamie Moyer) come to mind.

This reminds me of the day that they decided to punt Scott Eyre for no good reason that I could think of at the time

If ERA+ is your measuring stick for his success since being punted, didn't Eyre's 90 ERA+ at the time qualify as a good reason? It wasn't exactly out of character either - for his AL career, he sports a 5.38 ERA in 290 innings.

I also ask if ERA+ truly a good measure for a LOOGY. Stranding inherited runners is a huge part of a LOOGY's job, and ERA tells you nothing about that. Here are some other relevant ratios for his NL career: 1.32 K/BB, 5.82 K/9, 4.40 BB/9, 0.92 HR/9, 1.39 WHIP. That, my friend, is a fungible reliever.

Eyre has gone on to post an ERA+ in 2002 (for the brief time he was there) of 240

"Brief" doesn't even do it justice. It was 11 innings. I'd wager that bettter than 95% of Major League pitchers go through a stretch of 11 innings in a season in which they give up 2 or fewer earned runs. And then there's the fact that Eyre also gave up 2 unearned runs in those 11 innings...

As to why they necessitated designating him for assignment instead of trading him or getting rid of someone else, I'm not sure.

Eyre was not designated for assignment. He was claimed off waivers in August, when everyone has to go through waivers to be traded.

Remember, though, that Eyre started 2002 in the rotation, got knocked around, then moved to the pen, where he did very well (3.28 ERA as a reliever on the year).

Anyway, the point isn't really that Ricciardi gave up an integral part of the team's future. I think some people (increasingly myself) are wondering what J.P. is basing his bullpen decisions on. Giving up Eyre wasn't too bad since he was adequately replaced by Trever Miller. But then Ricciardi punts Miller, too, so he can spend more money on De Los Santos. I mean, huh?

You know,the definition of fungible is that someone is completely replaceable. Fact is, Eyre turns out not to have been so easily replaceable. None of the Jays lefthanders have pitched as well as he has. So he wasn't fungible. He might be "average" or "not outstanding" but he wasn't fungible. :)

My point wasn't that Eyre is the greatest pitcher ever or that losing him has made a huge difference to the team overall. My point was that Eyre was performing pretty well in the pen (my only point in covering the next 100 innings of his career was to confirm that he's continued to pitch pretty well in that role). He was making league minimum and for no reason that I can think of he was punted.

In my opinion, the same thing applies with Kersher. Since his recall last year he's pitched pretty well (not outstandingly) from the pen. He didn't do well starting but then he hasn't started for years, not even in the minors, so I'll cut him some slack for that. He's making the league minimum, lefthanded (the Jays only one) and the only reliever able to go multiple innings (maybe File as well). I can't really see the point.