Just to reiterate

Let the Rios era begin!

Wow, Rios Is On His Way... But The Move Makes Little Sense To Me.. Gross Is Playing Better Than Rios Is Probably More Ready.. But Either Way, Let The Delgado Era Fall And The Rios Era Rise!

Gross in injured, dont put all your eggs in one basket. Loosing Delgado will be a major loss, hopefully they can sign him at the right price.

Gross can't play outfield because of his elbow injury. He's restricted to DH for the rest of the year.

Rios has not hit well at all in AAA but they're playing a hunch with him as they did with Wells that he can overcome his mediocore AAA performance and make good in the long run. They really like his speed and arm in the outfield too and he should be an improvement on even Reed Johnson in that respect.

I wouldn't expect too much. If you look at Wells' early career he struggled to get over .300 in obp and I expect it will be the same for Rios for a while. His value is in batting average at the moment so his productivity just depends on whether he starts hot or not.

I guess they're really going to take their time with File. Quite an outing today, though.

Calling up Rios really surprises me. From the few games I've seen in Syracuse, he looked alright but was hardly dominating. Why not let him develop some more in Triple A? A .259 average and a .373 slugging percentage does not warrant a promotion, I think. Russ Adams has a higher slugging percentage. I thought the reason they acquired Benard was to buy more time for Rios. I'm also surprised they're starting the clock on Rios as far as ML service time. I thought this would be coming in June or July. Well, best of luck to Alex. I'm not expecting that much from him at this point but I guess J.P. and company feel he can handle it.

I think File would be served best with more time in syracuse. He has barely pitched over the last two seasons, no need to rush him.

I hope this doesn't mean that Reed and Pondo will be platooning. Reed has been playing incredibly well and is becoming a solid leadoff hitter. If performance means anything, Reed should be given the chance to play himself out of an everyday job. At the very least, Reed should have an everyday job until the Cat comes back.

They're going to make sure with File. This is his first regular action in a while. He's doing well but he hasn't struck out many.

Regarding the Super 2 concerns in the other thread. Starting tomorrow if Rios spends the entire season in the majors that will give him 130 days service time. That's pretty close to the borderline. In an average year that's should slip through without qualifying for Super 2 but since it's based on service time relative to other 2nd years and not a pre-set number there's always a chance he could fall into the Super 2 category.

Gotta say I'm certainly surprised by this move. Hopefully the move will spur Rios on to greater heights. We'll see I suppose.

Very surprising move indeed. I'm excited to watch Alex play on a day to day basis. It beats putting actions to words over the internet.

Surprising. But I suppose the rationale goes that if they have to see if Rios is a major league hitter, it might as well be now.

I'm sure it wasn't Plan A. It would have been preferable to promote Gross, but he can't play the outfield. Benard would have been a decent (if water-treading) option, but there's the hassle of adding him and Estalella to the 40-man.

So you give Rios his trial by fire, and at the very least improve the outfield defence tremendously for the next couple weeks. Should be interesting to watch.

I hope this doesn't mean that Reed and Pondo will be platooning. Reed has been playing incredibly well and is becoming a solid leadoff hitter. If performance means anything, Reed should be given the chance to play himself out of an everyday job. At the very least, Reed should have an everyday job until the Cat comes back.


I think Pond will pick up a lot of AB against RHP, but he won't just be stealing them from Reed. I imagine he'll play against tough righties in place of Rios and/or Phelps as well.

Work those phones JP, and send Berg to Minny for a PTBNL or cash. Then you can promote Benard...

jc

They can always option Rios for 3 weeks when Cat returns.

I'm incredibly excited to watch Rios tomorrow. Even if he goes 0-4, after all the hype, I've seen nothing but a few photos of the guy. Perhaps if it's publicized this will give a boost to the attendance. The two exciting wins in a row should help too, but a stud prospect going 3-4 in his debut could do wonders.

Calling up Rios really surprises me. From the few games I've seen in Syracuse, he looked alright but was hardly dominating. Why not let him develop some more in Triple A? A .259 average and a .373 slugging percentage does not warrant a promotion, I think. Russ Adams has a higher slugging percentage. I thought the reason they acquired Benard was to buy more time for Rios. I'm also surprised they're starting the clock on Rios as far as ML service time. I thought this would be coming in June or July. Well, best of luck to Alex. I'm not expecting that much from him at this point but I guess J.P. and company feel he can handle it.


I think JP felt his hand was forced a little bit by a desire to balance the lineup. Benard is LHB, and he preferred bringing up a righthanded hitter. I expect that Rios' exposure to tough righthanders will be somewhat limited (i.e. Pond will hit in his place). Over the next few weeks, they are going to be facing a lot of lefthanded pitching, so it's a good time to get Rios some AB against MLB pitching. If Rios struggles, send him back down when Cat comes of the DL. If Rios plays well, then maybe Pond gets returned to AAA (hopefully in time for the olympics).

I agree completely with RBillie's analyses as to why they are calling Rio's up. With young players you never know. You might just catch lightening in a bottle. If Rio's fails its not a big deal to return him to Syracuse.

Pond has had his audition and unfortunatly he failed with both the bat and the D. He's obviously a fine young man who is just a hair away from a regular gig in the bigs but none-the-less that hair is a pretty big deal at the MLB level.

Rio's promotion should add to a competitive situation on the bench. Sparky started to perform when he started to loose at bats to Clark. I can't say thats the reason he started hitting but the competition didn't hurt.

I also have to agree the team will have sterling defense in the outfield while the Cats away. At least if the Rio's press clippings pan out.

With the catcher situation being as it is I can't help but wonder if Quiroz would have been on his way as well if he were healthy.

Pond has had his audition and unfortunatly he failed with both the bat and the D. He's obviously a fine young man who is just a hair away from a regular gig in the bigs but none-the-less that hair is a pretty big deal at the MLB level.

That's a little harsh. He's a rookie who got only 35 AB to show what he could do.

He started slow, but has been swinging the bat pretty well of late. And he's learning OF on the job. He's not the first player to misplay a line drive at the dome. He's not that old (27) and I think he has a decent shot of having a productive MLB career as a "supersub" type player. At this stage, he's certainly more valuable than Dave freaking Berg.

Who gets the call if Hudson goes to the DL? Sequea?

At this stage, he's certainly more valuable than Dave freaking Berg.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind about this. Pond has been hitting very well of late - hard hit balls and not too many K's after his first 10 PA. I say keep him because we need lefty bats.

I hope this doesn't ruin Rios' confidence.
Anyone else worried about the psychological part in this?

It's not a bad idea to see what Alexis Rios can do in the majors, If he doesn't do well then you can always send him back to AAA. As some posters above have already said, you can get a good boost and some great production from your prospects, Just like Willis for the marlins last year. One good example so far this year is Matt Holliday of the Rockies (filling in for Larry Walker and Preston Wilson)who is putting up some great numbers and is the definite front runner for rookie of the year so far.

More about the roster moves... shouldn't the placement of Frank Catalanotto on the 15 day DL be retroactive to may 19th, which was the last game he played in?

That's a little harsh. He's a rookie who got only 35 AB to show what he could do.

I didn't mean to sound harsh. And your right Jacko, 35 AB's is not enough time for a fair assesment. But the GM must be so inclined. He did say Rio's plays everyday so some thought must have gone into this. Where does Pond play? What happens if Rios is playing well enough to stick when Cat comes back in about 10 days.

You won't hear any arguement from me about Dave Berg but I think his mother would object to the new middle name you've hung on him. He's probably a pretty good guy too.

With Gross limited to DH and Rios getting the call, who gets called up from NH to fill the OF? Godwin?

Hrm... I think the depth chart needs some whiteout...

So you give Rios his trial by fire...

Wonder if JP is thinking a few moves ahead...if Rios plays stellar defence and proves he can hit major league pitching, does that not give JP a huge trading chip? A gamble, yes...

David, who would the trading chip be?

Based upon an feeling (borrowed from Millhouse's dad?), Rios. I would love to see a Rios, Wells, Gross outfield, but I'm just not convinced that JP sees him on his '07 dream team if he can't get on base enough despite his power and defence. His value may be greater to other teams.

Sorry, I try to keep my uninformed posts to a minimum, but how about trading him for a stud starter, lefty even.

I didn't mean to sound harsh. And your right Jacko, 35 AB's is not enough time for a fair assesment. But the GM must be so inclined. He did say Rio's plays everyday so some thought must have gone into this. Where does Pond play? What happens if Rios is playing well enough to stick when Cat comes back in about 10 days.


I think you cross that bridge when you come to it.

IMO, Pond will get plenty of playing time against RHP spelling Sparky, Rios, and Phelps. When Cat comes back, if Pond is still playing well, you need to take a serious look at Dave Berg and decide what to do with him.

Oh, by the way:

Fan of the Game represent!

Jealous?

Oh jeez, now I gotta look at your ugly mug.

Congratz :)

Not only was Brent fan of the game, but he taught a large group of Montréalers GOING! GOING! ZAUN!

So where does Rios bat in the order? Do Phelps/Hinske slide up and Rios hits 7 or 8? I can't wait for this game! I think I had a dream last night that Rios hit 5th, but I doubt that yet.

Well, this is interesting. A few thoughts:

* Start the countdown now to the Frank Catalanotto trade. As soon as he's healthy and as soon as JP gets a good offer, he's gone. The offence will miss him, but the Jays are not going to contend this year, and if Rios is up, he needs to play.

* With Sparky in left, Wells in centre and Rios in right, the Jays' outfield defence suddenly goes from average to potentially great. Rios is still raw, and needs to learn a lot about positioning, getting a jump and hitting the cutoff man, but Vernon will be a great teacher. Flyballer Ted Lilly is among those pitchers who'll benefit from this.

* Simon Pond the pinch-hitter and spot starter is going to be a lot more help to this team than Simon Pond the platoon left fielder. He only started learning the oufield last summer, and he can improve, but right now he doesn't belong out there.

* Gabe Gross would have been the more logical candidate for promotion had he been healthy, but injured, he's basically just another DH, and the Jays have plenty of those at the moment. If he spends the entire season in Triple-A working on his offence, he could have a tremendous year and be ready to step into left field next spring.

* This doesn't get mentioned enough: JP has done brilliant work with his minimum-wage veteran free-agent signings. Gregg Zaun and Bobby Estalella came aboard as Triple-A backups; now they're the starting tandem in Toronto. Marvin Bernard seems to have sparked a turnaround in Syracuse, and I can see him getting the call to the majors when Cat is dealt and the Jays need a regular fourth outfielder who can start against tough righties. Tremendous work.

* I'm not too worried about Rios' confidence, even if he has a rough debut. I've come to believe that for most people, pro athletes especially, confidence is internal: you either believe you can succeed whatever the odds, or you don't. I've seen guys tearing up Triple-A get promoted and go into a huge funk, because deep down they doubt whether they belong, while guys who are maybe scuffling a little in the minors blossom at the major-league level (Vernon is a good example) because they know they can compete at the highest levels. Rios will have the usual adjustment issues, and I'm not expecting great things from him this year; but the key will be finding out if he believes he's a major-league ballplayer.

I so want to see Rios' first plate appearance...I'm sad that I have to come late to tonight's game.

I agree that Zaun in particular was a brilliant signing.

Catalanotto trade?

Hmmm ... 2B in Da Bronx? 3B in the Fens or ANA? Or does he stay in the OF somewhere?

Start the countdown now to the Frank Catalanotto trade. As soon as he's healthy and as soon as JP gets a good offer, he's gone. The offence will miss him, but the Jays are not going to contend this year, and if Rios is up, he needs to play.

Sad but true, it just makes sense. Activate Cat from DL, send Rios down for 15 or more days, trade Cat, bring Rios back up. This assumes that Rios doesn't completely stink at the plate... if he does, do you consider re-calling Gross instead of Rios after the Cat trade?

Gross of course can't play the outfield right now though. Maybe if Delgado were traded but that's getting ahead of ourselves. I think if Rios tanked while he was here Ricciardi would certainly be more hesitant to trade Cat and opt for the chance to re-sign/draft picks. But there's alway Benard I suppose.

Sad but true, it just makes sense. Activate Cat from DL, send Rios down for 15 or more days, trade Cat, bring Rios back up. This assumes that Rios doesn't completely stink at the plate... if he does, do you consider re-calling Gross instead of Rios after the Cat trade?

What's the over under on the first "Blame it on Rios" headline?

I'm surprised nobody has started quoting "Rio" by Duran Duran.

His name is Rios, and he [something something something]

Okay, maybe it doesn't work. :)

Weird Mike-I was just thinking the exact same thing. I've been humming "Her name is Rio and she dances in the sand" all morning. I think those are the lyrics...

Her name is Rio and she dances on the sand.
Just like that river twisting through a dusty land.
And when she shines she really shows you all she can
Oh Rio Rio dance across the Rio Grande.

His name is Rios, and he's Puer-to Ri-can.
Just like Cruz Jr and the entire Alomar clan

That's all I've got so far...

Start the countdown now to the Frank Catalanotto trade. As soon as he's healthy and as soon as JP gets a good offer, he's gone. The offence will miss him, but the Jays are not going to contend this year, and if Rios is up, he needs to play.

I'd wait until Rios actually shows he can hit above .200 before dealing Cat. In the short term, I can see a job-sharing arrangement: Rios gets to play most of the time, but Cat can spell him against tough righties, and can also give Sparky some rest. Cat could also DH a bit, especially if Pond doesn't work out.

Cat isn't being paid all that much; I'd only trade him if someone made a really good offer for him. Unfortunately, I suspect that his perceived value is lower than his real value, so the Jays would probably only get a B-level prospect for him.

I know there are lots of OF's but, I'm not sure I want to see Cat go. He's just such a good hitter. Put him in front of Wells/Delgado/Rios (if Rios can prove to be the run producer he has the potential to be) and that's a lot of runs. To me his only downfall is that he's been a tad...brittle...shall we say, throughout his career. When healthy, he's a .325 hitter, and it's tough to just trade those away for "a B-level prospect." So I hope it's not a foregone conclusion that he's gone.

If anyone wants a little A.R. preview, there's a cool 3-minute clip in the MLB.com archive (taken from the 2003 Futures Game).

Thanks for the link Steve, that was pretty neat. He seems like he's got a good head on his shoulders. Cool guy-speaks pretty good English.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly is a "Super 2." It seems to have something to do with contract status, but I've never heard the term before.

It's a service time issue. In the CBA, guys with 3 years worth of service time are eligible for arbitration, as well as a certain percentage of 2 year players with the most service time. So, if you got 2+ years of service time, the amount of the + is pretty relevant.

After reading the current CBA, you nead at least 2 years and 86 days of service time and rank in the top 17% of the group of players with 2+ years of service time who accumulated at least 86 days worth of that service time in the immediately preceding year.

So, the issue is whether calling up Rios now will make Rios a super 2 and consequently eligible for arbitration 1 year earlier than he might have been had the Blue Jays called him up a couple weeks from now.

I'm surprised nobody has started quoting "Rio" by Duran Duran.

Maybe we're all just trying to pretend that Duran Duran never existed. I've got that stupid "Her name is Rio" in my head now and it won't go away.

Fie! Fie! Bite your tongue! Duran Duran lives!

Haha, I'm not a Duran Duran fan, I actually only know the song cause BNL did a cover of it.

Re: I'm surprised nobody has started quoting "Rio" by Duran Duran

You know what the scary thing about that is, I don't even think Rios was born when that song came out. Damn I old!!

Thanks for the help, Steve, I get it now.

Re: Sorry, I try to keep my uninformed posts to a minimum, but how about trading him for a stud starter, lefty even.

Your trading Rios why? I think your logic was that Rios doesn't walk enough, which is true. Still you are not going to have 9 guys drawing walks all the time. I equate these high on base percent guys to the grinders in hockey, your need them, but you also need your star players, and Rios has a chance to be a star player, and with your star players you cut them some slack as long as they perform. If JP were to strickly abide by this high on base philosophy guys like Vladimir Guerrero who swings at anything from his shoe tops to over head could never play for the Bluejays. I got to believe if JP could afford Guerrero he would take he in a heart beat dispite the fact he rarely walks.

If Rios becomes a superstar, the walks will come eventually anyways. Once you prove that you are one of the best, you see a whole lot less to hit.

This move still seems to be very aggressive for JP. I'm starting to wonder if bringing up Rios was to showcase him to the Dodgers as part of a blockbuster deal with the Dodgers.

Thoughts?

I got to believe if JP could afford Guerrero he would take he in a heart beat dispite the fact he rarely walks.

He may not be walking much this year, but he hasn't had an AB:BB ratio of worse than 10:1 for the past 4 seasons (although over 1/3 of the walks were intentional).

I'm not sure about that - I imagine the only thing that would interest J.P. are the stud pitchers the Dodgers have coming up, but L.A. needs them to fill out their own rotation now.

You can attribute those stats on Guerrero to the fact he has tremendous bat control and doesn't strike out much

As far as developing plate discipline, how 'bout that Vernon Wells guy? His BB/K rates for the past three years:

2002: .318
2003: .525
2004: .840

Even if you want to say that there's not enough 2004 games to be conclusive, that's still a pretty hefty improvement.

Whatever the reasons are for Guerrero putting up the numbers he does, he has a lifetime OBP of .390. While he is a free swinger, the man gets on base at a terrific rate.

I think while Ricciardi would like guys who walk, thereby enhancing their chances of putting up good OBP's, he is realistic about it as well. Catalanotto, Johnson and Phelps are all walking at terrible rates, and two of them are considered to be having good years.

Re: I'm not sure about that - I imagine the only thing that would interest J.P. are the stud pitchers the Dodgers have coming up, but L.A. needs them to fill out their own rotation now

Perhaps I should clarify I was using Guerrero as an example of not every body on your team needing to walk alot in reference to Rios himself not walking alot.

In reguard to L.A. and the young pitching they have in the minors, you'd have to be crazy not to be interested in them. To me a trade between Toronto and L.A. is a good fit. L.A wants, or rather Shuan Green wants to move back to the out field and if that happens what could be better than have Carlos Delgado take over and having two and who knows maybe 3 of L.A.'s top pitching prospects come to Toronto.

Quick Note.

I find it extremely interesting that almost all of L.A. top pitching prospects are high school drafts. Hmmm very interesting, right JP?

I'm surprised nobody has started quoting "Rio" by Duran Duran.

Anyone else dreading the headlines...

Diamond Rio (get it baseball diamond, haha....eeech)
Rio Grande
Rio Bravo

I find it extremely interesting that almost all of L.A. top pitching prospects are high school drafts. Hmmm very interesting, right JP?


LA's top pitching prospects are high school draftees because they draft, almost exclusively, high school players. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The development of strike zone judgment. Now, there's a topic. Walk rates do increase with age in general, but for individual players the progression is entirely unpredictable. Vernon Wells and Sammy Sosa are good examples of different paths. One advantage Alex has is that he doesn't strike out too much.

From listening to the Syracuse games, I can say that he is working the count quite a bit. I'd guess that he saw over 4 pitches/PA. That is a good start. And I have confidence in Mike Barnett's ability to move him along in this regard as well.

This move still seems to be very aggressive for JP. I'm starting to wonder if bringing up Rios was to showcase him to the Dodgers as part of a blockbuster deal with the Dodgers.

Bringing up a raw player who is likely to struggle initially is NOT a good way of showcasing a player. I don't think this is JP's intent. If anything, it's better to let the player succeed in the minors and let the opposing GM's imagination start conjuring up visions of success in the bigs than it is to roll the dice that the prospect starts hot and actually increases his trade value.

Re: LA's top pitching prospects are high school draftees because they draft, almost exclusively, high school players. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It's true, if you draft only high school players how can your star prospects not help but be high school picks. Still wouldn't it be ironic if a trade did happen between L.A and Toronto involving Delgado and lets say Chad Billinsley taken 24nd over all in 2003 and Greg Miller taken 31st over all in 2002. Both these guys were availible when the jays selected and were supposedly by passed becuase they were high school players.

I don't think it's a great idea to acquire a pitcher with a major injury (Miller)

I think the reason that the Jays avoid high school players is the signing bonuses required to sign them as well as the fact that they need to develop more and are thus a higher risk.

To take a high school player further along in his development avoids these two pitfalls i.e. no signing bonus, a better chance of making the majors.

I imagine that signing bonuses are a reflection of supply and demand. If more people begin to value college players then I would guess you'll see JP looking at high school players because the cost will not be as high.

It's not /walks/ that matter, it's /on-base percentage/. If you can hit .320 consistently with a .350 OBP, so be it. It seems better, though, to be able to walk more, because hit/ball in play ratio seems to be more luck-based than anything else. If Batter A walks more than Batter B, but they have the same mean OBP, A's variance in OBP will be lower than B's, providing a more consistent, if less spectacular, career. And when you're a good team (runs scored > runs allowed), low variance in both runs scored and runs allowed maximizes wins.

... because hit/ball in play ratio seems to be more luck-based than anything else.

Not for hitters, though it fluctuates more year to year than walk and strikeout rates.

Re: I don't think it's a great idea to acquire a pitcher with a major injury (Miller)

Miller did have exploritory shoulder surgery and had something called a bursa sac removed from his left shoulder, but there wasn't any sign of structural damage to his labrum or rotator cuff. He's now rehabing and will pitch again later this summer.

http://kffl.com/player/8832/mlb
here the article I use as a reference COMM

Re: And I have confidence in Mike Barnett's ability to move him along in this regard as well.

Mike you could be right, it's sure going to be interesting to see how Rios reponds to a different hitting coach. I not sure who the hitting coach is in Syarcuse is but sometimes players and coaches just don't click, and I'm not suggesting this is the case here, but, it could explain Rios lack of production in Syarcuse.