Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Minor League Update: Yes, (West-)Virginia, There Are Still Minor Leagues

Minor League Update: Yes, (West-)Virginia, There Are Still Minor Leagues

We've got an Eastern League "batting champion" on the New Haven Ravens (and he ain't Alexis Rios), a "Triple Crown" batsman in Auburn, and a Jamie Vermilyea sighting in Dunedin. What more could one ask for in a minor-league update?

[The scare quotes are there to obviate the need to remind me how useless the notions of "batting champions" and "triple crowns" are.]

Scranton 2 at Syracuse 7

Pete Walker made a rehab start for the SkyChiefs and pitched two innings, allowing a solitary hit. Vinny Chulk put up one of the more unlikely relief lines you're likely to see for some time: 7 IP, 3 H, 2 R, 1 BB, 6 K, 1 HR. He pitched six shutout frames before giving up a two-run homer to Chase Utley in the ninth. Every Syracuse batter had at least one hit, and Gabe Gross, Kevin Cash, and Jayson Werth each chipped in a double. Werth's was his 18th in 146 AB; he's hitting .281/.335/.521 in AAA. Gross has crept up to .264/.350/.440.

New Haven 2 at Norwich 0

Dominic Rich, Danny Solano, and Tyrell Godwin put two runs on the board in the second frameand Dave Gassner never looked back, finishing with 7 innings of five-hit, four-K shutout ball. The story of the night, however, was Shawn Fagan, who went 2 for 4. Why does that make him the story of the night? Because he's now leading the EL batting race by a narrow margin (.33542 vs. .33495) over Alexis Rios. If he only had any pop to go with his ability to hit line drives and draw walks (.335/.417/.423) ...

Clearwater 3 at Dunedin 4

Jesse Harper and Gavin Floyd last met on July 24; when rain forced postponement after two innnings on that day, Harper held a 2-0 lead. Clearwater scored three late runs off D-Jay relievers the next day to win that game 3-2. Floyd and Harper met again last night; once more, Harper only lasted two innings, and as far as I know there was no rain delay. He gave up three runs in the second and left trailing 3-0. Jamie Vermilyea (3 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 4 K, 0 HR) and some lesser lights shut the Phillies down the rest of the way, and Dunedin scratched four runs for the victory, placing them two games ahead of Clearwater in the second-half pennant race. Vermilyea's line in the FSL is a cool 9 IP, 8 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 9 K.

Charleston 4 at South Georgia 5

Sandy Nin is still scuffling: 6 IP, 8 H, 4 R, 2 BB, 2 K. So are the Alley Cat hitters, which is not exactly news.

Mahoning Valley 3-0 at Auburn 2-3

Kurt Isenberg pitched well in the first game (5 IP, 4 H, 3 R, 1 BB, 6 K, 0 HR) but got the loss. Danny Core threw five innings of shutout ball in the nightcap (4 H, 0 BB, 1 K) for the win. Vito went 3 for 5 and is now leading the NYP league in all three Triple Crown categories: batting average (.36111 vs. Aaron Hill's idle .36066), home runs (8 vs. two guys with 6) and RBIs (44 vs. a dude with 37). This achievement is admittedly a statistical curiosity, but it cannot be denied that Vito has been large and in charge thus far.

Pulaski 1 at Bristol 0 (11 innings)

Brian Grant and two relievers pitched 11 innings of shutout ball, and Jace Tingler singled home Eugenio Vancamper for the winning run in the top of the 11th. Robinson Diaz went 1 for 5; his average is down to .389.

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 05 2003 @ 08:44 AM EDT.

Minor League Update: Yes, (West-)Virginia, There Are Still Minor Leagues | 43 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

_Sulsal Haque - Tuesday, August 05 2003 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#95476) #

How about Vinnie Chulk. I saw a site saying that over the last three starts he has a 2.12 ERA and giving up 12 hits in 20 innings. And it also said that he will probably be a September callup. I think he might have a chance to really show if he can pitch for the big show.
Anyways love the site and if anyone is willing to comment on Vinnie Chulk please do.

Coach - Tuesday, August 05 2003 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#95477) #

Vermilyea is amazing, and "Don" Vito is earning respect.

Sulsal, if you search Da Box for Chulk, you'll find dozens of mentions, including a recent thread after his complete game. It's more likely that he'll get a chance in the Toronto bullpen than as a starter, maybe as soon as September.

_John Neary - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 12:41 AM EDT (#95478) #

Chulk also got a mention in Kevin Goldstein's BA Prospect Report today, er, yesterday. As far as I know, it's the first he's had in a while.

Gitz - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 01:17 AM EDT (#95479) #

You know, a triple crown may indeed be useless in the grand scheme of things, but what's the harm in talking about it? And, sure, batting average may be equally useless, but it does comprise a portion of on-base percentage.

Let's not take all the fun out of baseball by doing the literary equivalent of eliminating dead-white-male authors. Just as there is plenty of room for T.S. Eliot and Virginia Woolf in the literary canon, there is ample space in the "new baseball" for categories like OPS+, ERA+, DIPS, triple crown, batting average, and Cy Young winner.

_Editing myself - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 01:30 AM EDT (#95480) #

"Let's not take all the fun out of baseball" is rather glib. Eliminate that phrase and proceed from there, while ignoring the other grammatical errors/misplaced modifiers/unclear thoughts.

Thank you.

Coach - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 09:09 AM EDT (#95481) #

In the Sun today, Bob Elliott takes a look at the Doubledays:

Auburn entered play last night with a 37-10 record and a .787 winning percentage. Not only is it the best win-loss mark of the 63 single-A, short-season clubs, but it also is the best winning percentage any minor-league team has put together this season.

Josh Banks didn't get much support last night, losing 2-1, but Shaun Marcum finished up with two perfect innings; his 27/2 K/BB ratio is about as impressive as the 9 hits he's allowed in 19.1 IP.

Gerry - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 09:20 AM EDT (#95482) #

JP made his weekly appearance on the Fan this morning. He is in Syracuse looking at who should be called up in September, who the Jays want to keep and who will be traded. He mentioned he will see Jason Arnold pitch on Thursday.

Some comments:

1. He repeated that Arnold will likely not be called up in September.

2. He said that some of the bullpen guys are the most likely to be called up (Smith, Bowles, Chulk?). I would also expect the return of the Tam-inator.

3. He mentioned that he expected Arnold, MacGowan, Bush and Peterson to be pitching strongly in Syracuse next year.

4. The Jays will have to trade a couple of their hot prospects for pitching help

5. He has $10 to $12 million to spend on pitching in the offseason.

6. He is still looking at 2005 for the Jays to contend.

_Spicol - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#95483) #

He repeated that Arnold will likely not be called up in September.

That wasn't my impression. Pat Marsden asked him if it was a "sure thing" that Arnold would be called up in September and JP's response was "No, I don't think so." I doubt Arnold will be called up but I don't think JP was committing to that in the FAN interview.

Dave Till - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#95484) #

He said that some of the bullpen guys are the most likely to be called up

This means that Carlos Tosca will be able to make even more late-inning pitching changes. Sigh. Six pitchers in an inning, anyone?

Glad to hear that J.P. is allocating money for pitching. I hope that the $10 million doesn't go for five more copies of Jeff Tam and Doug Creek.

_Brent - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#95485) #

With that amount of money left around for pitching, do you think that the Jays could take a risk and offer Lidle arbitration? Let me see if I can develop this thought any further. It seems to me that we aren't going to win anything next year, so the Jays shouldn't feel too bad about putting 1 or 2 "fillers" in the rotation slots. Lidle seems to be way too expensive for the long term, but if he is offered arbitration, he will obviously have two choices:

(a) Accept it; sink that $10-12 million considerably
or
(b) Reject it, and the Jays walk away with one (or possibly two) draft picks.

If (a) occurs, the Jays will have a possible trade chit for the 2004 season. Also, there is also the possibility that Lidle will turn it around in his free agency year next year. But this begs the question that if Lidle didn't do anything this year, why would his performance change the next? Like I said before, it is quite the gamble, but sometimes strange happen (see: a certain White Sox pitcher). But what else can they do with the money? Are there any free agents? Any teams trying to unload a salary? Who knows, but the prospects of a move are certainly exciting.

Mike D - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#95486) #

I'm with Gitz. Your credentials have been approved, Neary -- no disclaimers necessary. You won't get catapulted out of the Box for using the phrase "triple crown."

Pistol - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#95487) #

4. The Jays will have to trade a couple of their hot prospects for pitching help

It'll be interesting to see who they are willing to give up and who they can get for them.

With Kielty and Wells being locks for the OF (at least Kielty is a lock in my mind) that leaves one spot for Werth, Johnson and Gross for next season. Or no spots if F-Cat is re-signed.

So the OF is, in my mind, the likiest place to trade from. Rios would certainly have the most value today, but might be too valuable to trade. I'm high on Gross being in RF so I wouldn't want to trade him.

JFG and Werth would be the 2 I would most be willing to trade. It'd have to be a top pitcher for me to give up Rios.

Pistol - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 11:00 AM EDT (#95488) #

do you think that the Jays could take a risk and offer Lidle arbitration

IIRC, the lowest arbitration amount you can offer is 75% or 80% of their current salary, which would be a minimum of $4 million for Lidle.

So there's no way I'd offer him arbitration at that price.

_Pfizer - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 12:06 PM EDT (#95489) #

While I don't have a transcript of JP's comments, I also was sure he indicated that Arnold would finish the year with the SkyChiefs. I was suprised that he has the big 3 all pitching in AAA next year as well, I've been telling all my friends Arnold would probably be in the rotation.

And I don't know why, but I'm afraid Orlando is still on the block. And I like Orlando.

_John Neary - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#95490) #

Gitz, Mike: You are both right, and I'll skip the disclaimers next time.

Brent: I don't think any team in baseball would want Lidle for $4 million next year unless he seriously turns things around. I think he would have negative trade value at that price.

_John Neary - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#95491) #

Craig B - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#95492) #

I care about triple crowns. These things are important. I wouldn't use the triple crown stats to make judgments about a ballplayer (better to use other stats), but they're still important.

I would think that the $10-12 million means no Lidle. I think Lidle can be effective, but I'd like to think this team can make a good run next year, and I'm not sure that Lidle is the best destination for those bucks.

_Jordan - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 01:09 PM EDT (#95493) #

The salary is the least of the reasons that I wouldn't offer Lidle arbitration. I just don't want to see him pitch another 180 innings for this team next year. Who'd have thought that April and May would turn out to be his best months? And then there was his torpedoing of the four-man rotation. Happy trails, Cory. Enjoy your upcoming three-year guaranteed deal with Baltimore.

_R Billie - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#95494) #

There's no way Cory Lidle is getting arbitration. I can't think of many teams so desperate for a starter with an ERA approaching 6.00 that they would give up their first round pick to sign him. He would accept arbitration and the Jays would be on the hook for at $4 million.

As a yard stick, 2002 Esteban Loaiza had a better season than 2003 Lidle and he ended up signing a minor league deal in the off-season. Even Tanyon Sturtze at a million guaranteed is looking grossly overpaid. He's not currently pitching for the Jays at all except for obvious mop-up situations or when they run out of arms completely. That money could have been used for Kerry Ligtenberg who would at least serve a purpose and has a track record of closing.

I'm not saying I'd never sign Lidle back. Unless he's shown to have physical problems (which I'm beginning to wonder about) then I'd consider having him back as a starter if the price is right; say a million or less. I don't think 2.5 terrible months should wipe out three prior years of decent pitching. And he's still on pace to give us 200 innings which is at least something. If you're not paying him too much or relying on him to be your second starter or even your third starter, he's not a terrible keeper.

I'm also quite surprised that JP would reveal how much he is going to spend on pitching. While I appreciate his willingness to be forthright with the fans, that information can be used against him by agents and by other clubs bidding for pitchers. I think the Jays have about $18 million coming free from expiring contracts and it looks like JP is assuming $6 to $8 million of that will be enough to take care of raises for arbitration eligibles. I'd like to see if he includes Escobar's raise in that...if he does then it gives the Jays quite a bit of freedom to go after a couple of bullpen and a couple of rotation arms.

_Brent - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#95495) #

Thanks for the response guys. For the record, I was in no way implying that Lidle should be offered arbitration, but instead was throwing up the idea as one of those crazy "risks" that we were talking about before. In fact, the entire idea of Lidle being traded at all (this year or next) is dependent on the fact that he pitches a hell of a lot better than the way he has been pitching the past couple months. Although, if we could get Lidle back on a Loaiza v.2003-type contract, I would be all for it. I agree with R Billie's third paragraph.

Pistol - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 06:54 PM EDT (#95496) #

I'm also quite surprised that JP would reveal how much he is going to spend on pitching

I don't think this information could be harmful to the Jays in any way.

Plus, the only decision to be made in the field is whether F-Cat is re-signed or not. Anything else would be a Bordick/Myers type pickup. So your position players budget is pretty much known. Given that and the budget you can get to how much would be spent on pitching. In a separate thread someone figured that the Jays had about $12 million to spend and it looks like that's accurate so I don't think it's anything someone couldn't figure out on their own.

_DS - Wednesday, August 06 2003 @ 11:43 PM EDT (#95497) #

I'm kind of surprised that JP would state that he is going to trade a couple of their hot prospects for pitching help, unless he's refering to Werth and Cash as hot prospects. Assuming he brings Escobar back, that would make the rotation Doc, some FA pickup, Escobar, Thurman, and Hendrickson/Miller. Not great, but certainly a passable bunch. The bullpen needs more overhaul than the rotation.

I understand the need for pitching prospects, but with Arnold, McGowan and Bush on the horizon, and a whole boatload of pitching prospects at the lower levels, trading anything other than the redundant position prospects in the system would be folly. Guys like Rios and Gross and Quiroz should be untouchables at this point.

_Simon - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 02:01 AM EDT (#95498) #

Gross is an untouchable? I'd certainly not put him on that list with Rios and Quiroz. They are the two untouchables in my mind. Gross/Werth/Cash/Hudson are all tradeables for me. They haven't got the high ceiling that Rios and Quiroz have. Then again, they won't fetch the better pitchers I guess. Still that's my two cents. My outfield of the future would be Rios/Wells/Kielty (Johnson).

I include Hudson because we have Adams and then Hill to replace him if he falters. Cash probably doesn't have much value right now, meaning we may as well keep him and use him as a defensive replacement(as I don't really see his bat becoming good enough to be a starter).

_Simon - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 02:06 AM EDT (#95499) #

I'm sorry, one more thing. In that article linked in this thread where Elliot writes about the D-Days, he mentions some of the Jays scouting hirings. He says that Jon LaLonde has been hired as the scouting director of the Jays. So he's the replacement for Wilkens? Was this talked about and I missed it? Who is he?

Craig B - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 08:41 AM EDT (#95500) #

They haven't got the high ceiling that Rios and Quiroz have.

Well, I don't know. If you equate tools with a ceiling in any way, remember that Gross is probably one of the two or three best athletes in the organization.

I don't think he's untradeable either; no one is untradeable. There's just no such thing.

Coach - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 08:53 AM EDT (#95501) #

Simon: when Lalonde was promoted, Bob Elliott profiled him in the Sun, and Baseball America quoted J.P.:

"I compare Jon a lot to (A's scouting director) Erik Kubota. They both grew up in the front office and have seen a lot of baseball. One drawback a lot of amateur scouts have is they don�t see a lot of major leagues games. Jon has seen a lot of that, and he's been around myself, Tim McCleary and Keith Law and he knows what we're looking for and can carry the philosophy through."

Former scouting director Chris Buckley was named Assistant GM and Tony LaCava's new title is Director of Player Personnel.

Batter's Box has already corresponded with Lalonde, who attended meetings in Arizona last week, and is now watching future draftees compete at the Area Code Games in California. Our own "scouting director," Jordan, is in the process of moving. When both their busy schedules permit, we hope to bring you an exclusive interview.

_DS - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 08:58 AM EDT (#95502) #

no one is untradeable

That's always true. I probably should have phrased it differently. Rios, Gross and Quiroz shouldn't be used as trade bait unless a bit of their lustre is removed from their prospect status, or the return is a can't miss pitching prospect. But no team in their right mind are going to trade those types of pitchers.

Simon,

No one's really talked about it on here, but here's a more in-depth look about Jon LaLonde from Elliot.

_DS - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 09:01 AM EDT (#95503) #

D'oh! Scooped again.

Coach, great job on securing these interviews. The MLB site should be taking lessons from you guys.

Coach - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 09:17 AM EDT (#95504) #

Thanks DS. I did the interviews with the coaches, but Jordan deserves credit for our Keith Law Q & A and for initiating contact with Lalonde. We're hoping to talk to some of the players soon, too.

Mike D - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#95505) #

For our first player interview, I'm not just suggesting Reed Johnson; I'm demanding it!

_Spicol - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 10:53 AM EDT (#95506) #

Reed actually plays so he won't have the time. Try Tanyon Sturtze.

_Spicol - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#95507) #

A terrific offensive performance for Syracuse last night and an excellent, unbeaten evening all-around for the entire organization. John or Jordan might start a thread on it so I won't analyze too much but I do want to point out that Kevin Cash hit 2 HR. He's been on fire lately. When can we stop saying that he can't hit?

(Bob File pitched a perfect inning as did Jeff Tam. Ok, I'll shut up now.)

_Simon - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#95508) #

No there aren't any people you label untradeable and therefore never even discuss with other teams. But there are certain prospects that are far valuable I'd say. Granted that Rios hasn't actually done anything at the Major league level yet, but from all the signs, players like him don't come around too often. All I'm saying is that if Rios is traded, I want an ace who's ready for the show. Like a Harden type. Now that I think about it, would the A's go for that? They need some offensive help, and we need some pitching. Not to mention that Harden's a Canuck (which would really help our struggling marketing department). We'd probably have to add something to sweetent the deal since Harden's already mowing down the hitters in the majors while Rios is still at AA.

Craig B - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#95509) #

All we need now for our interviews is someone to sneak up and pie the interviewee. :)

_Spicol - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#95510) #

Now that I think about it, would the A's go for that?

No. No, they wouldn't. I can say that with confidence. The Jays would have to trade some cheap, significant, major league ready talent in order to land Rich Harden. Vernon Wells springs to mind. Or maybe Delgado, if the Jays were willing to pay 90% of his salary over the next two years. A package including Rios might get him, but it would have to be something like Rios and Gross AND a pitcher.

_John Neary - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#95511) #

Spicol: If nobody's posted a minor-league thread by 11 am, chances are that there isn't going to be one, so don't hesitate to give longer game notes. I don't think people should avoid discussing interesting minor league results just because a new thread may or may not be posted later in the day.

_John Neary - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#95512) #

If nobody's posted a minor-league thread by 11 am, chances are that there isn't going to be one

</foot-in-mouth>

_Jonny German - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#95513) #

Skipping back to the topic of the $10 - $12 million to be spent on pitching, I'd like to hear some speculation on where that will go. With Delgado either gone or taking a sizeable pay cut for 2005, it's not just a one-year pot. I think the Jays should consider taking a big chunk and signing a proven commodity to a multi-year deal. I'd rather see them do this than spread it out and get a bunch of Tams / Creeks / Sturtzes, because even if those types work out well they won't win you a championship. Between Arnold / Thurman / McGowan / Bush, there should be enough arms to fill out the rotation in 2005 and beyond - I'd like to see this money go to getting somebody that can reasonably be counted on as #2 or #3 for the next 3 years.

That, of course, is easier said than done. The biggest name available figures to be Kevin Millwood. I believe he's at $10M this year - will he get that much in a multi-year deal on the open market, and how much would he have to drop for the Jays to consider him? I think it's highly unlikely that he will come down to their neighbourhood, because the Red Sox and their $100M will be in the market. The Yankees may have a glut of starters, but they're also getting real long in the tooth, and you can always count on the Yankees to make things difficult for the Red Sox - i.e. to drive up Millwood's price even if they don't want him themselves. Anybody have a good list of who is likely to be available in the free agent and salary dump markets?

Here's a different thought: Spend only a few million of the available money on new pitchers, use a big chunk of it towards Halladay's extension. Structure the Halladay deal such that you maintain a lot of payroll flexibility in the 2004 off-season. At that point, the picture for the 2005 championship run will be much clearer, and the available loot can go towards re-signing Delgado or signing a solid starter like Javier Vazquez.

You're all forgetting that the Box has already had it's first player interview - Mike Moffat's fine discussion with Jason Arnold. I am of course also looking forward to the first Major League player interview. And I'd also love a Mike Wilner interview - the man is a purebred Boxite whether he's discovered his online counterparts yet or not. While I'm at it, I think a Richard Griffin interview would make us all less likely to jump on him for every stupid thing he says - I suspect he says a lot of it with a smirk.

Gitz - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#95514) #

The Jays won't pursue Millwood.

EOM.

_Spicol - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#95515) #

Here's the list of top-flight FA starting pitchers:

Kevin Millwood
Bartolo Colon
Andy Pettitte
Roger Clemens (he might retire)
Sidney Ponson (not a sure thing)

Derek Lowe (Boston has an option)
Hideo Nomo (LA has an option)

In other words, there isn't much. Even with the market being slightly depressed, these guys will get paid large. The big spending clubs will put their prices out of Blue Jay territory.

Let me float this name out there as a cheap transition pitcher with upside: Wilson Alvarez

_Brent - Thursday, August 07 2003 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#95516) #

Alvarez would be interesting if he would come cheap (I have no reason to think that he wouldn't be). He's pitching a little over his head this year (a 3+ K/BB ratio), but if he can get back to that 110-130 ERA+ form from before his injury troubles, he would make a fine end of the rotation guy.

_David - Friday, August 08 2003 @ 11:56 PM EDT (#95517) #

I was a little puzzled by the A. Sanders in tonight's Raven's box score.

I Googled it up, and wouldn't you know it's OF Anthony Sanders who played 3 games for the Jays in 1999. According to this story, Toronto's 7th round pick from '91 signed as a free agent a few days ago and was sent to New Haven. The 29 year old had been batting .229 with 10 hr and 40 rbi for AAA Charlotte. Brian Patrick was sent to Dunedin to make room.

With musical starters distracting the local folk, not many are aware (not that the casual fan would notice anyway) that New Haven is now 7 games up (oops - 6 after tonight's loss) in the Northern Division with a legitimate shot at an Eastern League title. At least Alexis Rios is optimistic: "The hitting and pitching have been great for the last two or three weeks. We just have to keep doing it. If we do, I think we�ll get a (championship) ring."

Their pitching has been good, and with John-Ford Griffin out, I'm glad JP is trying to help them win by adding an experienced bat.

_David - Saturday, August 09 2003 @ 12:13 AM EDT (#95518) #

Ravens'

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